Texas State Wants To Move To Ia By 2014

[stebo]

Texas State has completed their feasibility study and they want to move up. There is a moratorium on FCS moving to FBS until 2011 (WKY was the last to sneak in) but they could start the two year transition then (in 2012) and be ready for some conference 2014. Here is their study, interesting read... they want a $25 million dollar budget with $10 million of that from student fees. Doesn't say where they will get the other $15 million or how they will fund the stadium; but I seem to recall that they were going to expand their stadium after they had that IAA Championship year. Anyways, I don't know how any of us would feel about Texas State in the Belt in 7 years but they will likely want to join. I would GUESS that they will get an invite by the WAC because the WAC needs a Texas school really bad for La Tech to have a travel buddy and all of the Belt schools have turned them down already. I would guess that TSU would prefer CUSA with their second choice being the Belt. Will any of the three really want the Bobcats? I have no idea... but here is their study - including some very aggresive student fee funding. Bet those fees don't go to some student vote, I would bet that they just push them through and the students that don't like it can leave (what we should be doing). We could learn a little bit from TSU, when you want to do something right, you should just tell the students that it is the new price of admission/membership for going to school at NT/TSU. We need to revisit the student fee and up it so that we do not get passed by the Southland school from San Marcos.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/txst/g.../ASPCReport.pdf

[galojah]

Texas State has completed their feasibility study and they want to move up. There is a moratorium on FCS moving to FBS until 2011 (WKY was the last to sneak in) but they could start the two year transition then (in 2012) and be ready for some conference 2014. Here is their study, interesting read... they want a $25 million dollar budget with $10 million of that from student fees. Doesn't say where they will get the other $15 million or how they will fund the stadium; but I seem to recall that they were going to expand their stadium after they had that IAA Championship year. Anyways, I don't know how any of us would feel about Texas State in the Belt in 7 years but they will likely want to join. I would GUESS that they will get an invite by the WAC because the WAC needs a Texas school really bad for La Tech to have a travel buddy and all of the Belt schools have turned them down already. I would guess that TSU would prefer CUSA with their second choice being the Belt. Will any of the three really want the Bobcats? I have no idea... but here is their study - including some very aggresive student fee funding. Bet those fees don't go to some student vote, I would bet that they just push them through and the students that don't like it can leave (what we should be doing). We could learn a little bit from TSU, when you want to do something right, you should just tell the students that it is the new price of admission/membership for going to school at NT/TSU. We need to revisit the student fee and up it so that we do not get passed by the Southland school from San Marcos.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/txst/g.../ASPCReport.pdf

I skimmed the report and while it all looks good, they don't really tell HOW they will accomplish their goals. $10M in student fees is a lot. They contradict themselves when they say they don't want to be dependent on student fee because their study says that schools that are supported on student fees tend to be destined for the bottom tier of FBS, but yet $10M would be up to half half of their proposed budget. And they don't account for their other $15M, as you mentioned. I think they are in for a reality check.

It did mention a stadium renovation/expansion with 25,000 seats and club level seating, which is very close to what WKU is doing.

2014 is a long way off, to predict any conference affiliation would be guessing. A lot can change and probably will by then. By then C-USA may finally be seen by all for what it is becoming, just another non-BCS conference like the WAC, MAC, and SBC. Take Memphis away from basketball and C-USA has no competitive advantage. Their bowl ties will start to drift away as contracts expire.

[stebo]

I skimmed the report and while it all looks good, they don't really tell HOW they will accomplish their goals. $10M in student fees is a lot. They contradict themselves when they say they don't want to be dependent on student fee because their study says that schools that are supported on student fees tend to be destined for the bottom tier of FBS, but yet $10M would be up to half half of their proposed budget. And they don't account for their other $15M, as you mentioned. I think they are in for a reality check.

It did mention a stadium renovation/expansion with 25,000 seats and club level seating, which is very close to what WKU is doing.

2014 is a long way off, to predict any conference affiliation would be guessing. A lot can change and probably will by then. By then C-USA may finally be seen by all for what it is becoming, just another non-BCS conference like the WAC, MAC, and SBC. Take Memphis away from basketball and C-USA has no competitive advantage. Their bowl ties will start to drift away as contracts expire.

I agree with you 100%. It is ambitious but delusional. I am sure that it is sugar coated like ours was in 94 and yours was a couple of years ago... just to get it passed... but $10 million in student fees is VERY aggresive for a IAA school - maybe too aggresive. What happens when the school can't raise the other $15 million a year? Do they just run off of the $10 million/year from the students? Sure, you can do that - but they need a more conclusive plan to fund this venture. We went into IA without enough funding and suffered for years. FIU and FAU went in with more money then they know what to do with and FAU is doing well right out of the gate. Troy went into IA with mid-range money and had a first year that was rough (in the Belt)... but they have done well since. I really like the WKY plan, it is really outside the box. I do not think that your coach is ready for IA yet, but your program is very educated on it and very prepared for the move. I think that you guys will have a VERY smooth transition (unlike 50% of the Belt did).. Your coach on the other hand... (the football one)... well, he needs to decide if he wants to be a IAA coach where things are "chippy" because SOMETHING has to make the games exciting or a IA coach. I know that there are exceptions to the un-written rule of being class acts in IA - Miami and LSU come to mind (fans and teams) but the majority of IA teams (and especially the Sun Belt teams) carry themselves with class and respect. I can only think of 1 really bad incident involving a Sun Belt team and that was FIU vs Miami. The FIU admin suspended all of the players and completely removed 2 of them involved (revoking their ships)... while Miami only suspended the scrubs.

[yyz28]

Well...

...what conference they might join if they pull it off is very premature to try and figure out. There is no telling what the conferences will look like and need in 7 years.

If they pull it off, I would welcome them into any conference we are in. Why not? Guys, we need regional rivarlries, which is why so many of us want CUSA. No reason to think they can't be serious. Of all schools, we should be the first on the list to welcome up and comer's with open arms.

...IMHO.

[buff64]

Texas State as over 28,000 students this year, which place it just beow UNT in enrollment. It would be great to have another Texas school in the SunBelt and on the scheldue.

[FirefightnRick]

The remaining money's will come from private donations just like ours will for our stadium. And if/when that happens it will go through a silent phase just like where we are currently at now.

I applaude their effort and would welcome them to the Belt. It would be a fantastic conference road trip for all of us to enjoy. As for their stadium I think they have a solid foundation now with their new endzone athletic complex etc.

Also, I predict that if they move up Tarleton State will fill their spot in the SLC if Tarleton had not already made the jump by that time.

Rick

[CajunNation]

The remaining money's will come from private donations just like ours will for our stadium. And if/when that happens it will go through a silent phase just like where we are currently at now.

I applaude their effort and would welcome them to the Belt. It would be a fantastic conference road trip for all of us to enjoy. As for their stadium I think they have a solid foundation now with their new endzone athletic complex etc.

Also, I predict that if they move up Tarleton State will fill their spot in the SLC if Tarleton had not already made the jump by that time.

Rick

I agree.

There is way too much potential to not take them.

If you're thinking long term, and we should, Texas State is a no-brainer.

In a 60 mile radius of San Marcos, there is around 3 MILLION people.

That's a whole lot of televisions.

[GreenBat]

I agree.

There is way too much potential to not take them.

If you're thinking long term, and we should, Texas State is a no-brainer.

In a 60 mile radius of San Marcos, there is around 3 MILLION people.

That's a whole lot of televisions.

And all of the 3 MILLION people are watch f'ing Tu or A&M. I know, I grew up down in Universal City, which is about 37.1 miles from San Marcos (according to Mapquest).

SWT or TSU at San Marcos is a nice school, but they would have a hard time getting the town to support losing DI football. They haven't supported winning D-1AA football.

[galojah]

The remaining money's will come from private donations just like ours will for our stadium. And if/when that happens it will go through a silent phase just like where we are currently at now.

They may be able to raise the one-time monies to pay for the stadium, but they didn't tell how they intend to raise $10-$15 Million annually that they say they need above the $10M student fee income. That is no easy chunk to raise ANNUALLY.

To give some perspective on Texas State:

Their endowment balance: $42.3 Million; WKU's endowment balance, $102 Million

Their annual fundraising total for FY 2007: $14.3 Million; WKU's total, $17.6 Million

So not sure how they can expect to raise $10-$15 Million just for athletics when the entire University only raised $14 million. Obviously they can expect a little more in axillary services, suite contracts, increased ticket sales, etc., but not anywhere close to the numbers they need.

Their plan is suspect.

[GrandGreen]

I don't think the addition of another Bowl Division team in Texas would be a positive for NT.

IMO playing even at the lowest tier of the Bowl Division is much better than being in the Championship Division. Therefore I understand the desire for moving up, but that doesn't mean its a good thing for UNT. The fact is that Texas already has 10 BD teams and additional teams does significantly reduce the talent pool, particularly at the lower tier of BD. As far as the Belt, the last thing the conference needs is more start up teams. There is no opening in the conference unless some team leaves, more than 9 football teams makes little sense.

By the time any team can move up, the circumstances will be substantial difference. Until then I guess there will be continued attempts by schools to move up and in some cases initiate football programs. Maybe UTSA, Lamar, and UTA will start football programs and the whole Southland conference can move up to Bowl Division status. Then NT fans can celebrate they have 6 more BD teams to recruit and compete against in Texas plus another in Arkansas and three more in Louisiana.

[forevereagle]

There is no opening in the conference unless some team leaves, more than 9 football teams makes little sense.

I agree most everything you said except this. If we can get to 12, then it can make a lot of sense. Not having to travel every year to F_U would be a plus. Adding teams that help us regionally would be nice. But the recruiting competition isn't the best thing for us either.

Not that we can stop them. And if they do move up, having them as a conference opponent would be best, since we can compete on the field and (hopefully) outplay them, thus helping our recruiting against them.

[galojah]

I agree most everything you said except this. If we can get to 12, then it can make a lot of sense. Not having to travel every year to F_U would be a plus. Adding teams that help us regionally would be nice. But the recruiting competition isn't the best thing for us either.

Not that we can stop them. And if they do move up, having them as a conference opponent would be best, since we can compete on the field and (hopefully) outplay them, thus helping our recruiting against them.

I don't think we need 12. I'd rather see us actually drop down to nine for all sports, through I am not in favor of kicking any teams out (including Denver, we invited them, we owe them a home), but if it happened that would be best. Then we could play single division, round-robin, basketball-- which is the best basketball their is. I smaller, tighter, conference is where we need to head. Expansion-- no.

[NT80]

I don't think we need 12. I'd rather see us actually drop down to nine for all sports, through I am not in favor of kicking any teams out (including Denver, we invited them, we owe them a home), but if it happened that would be best. Then we could play single division, round-robin, basketball-- which is the best basketball their is. I smaller, tighter, conference is where we need to head. Expansion-- no.

Although I would like another Texas school in the SBC, I agree I'd rather have a nine team all-sports league instead of taking all-comers. I don't know how long FIU can be viable in 1-A.

Edited November 30, 2007 by NT80

[JesseMartin]

Is that really $25 mil a YEAR? At first I thought you meant 25 from now til 2012 or 2014. When I was last on UNT's s.s.f. committee, the Athletics budget was about 2.3 mil, I think (2000-2001 FY). I know the controversial fee increase in the 02-03 year (or was it 01-02?) bumped that up a bit, but our total budget ran around 7-8 mil when I was in-the-know. They want like 3.5 times that (25 mil total)?! They're only a little smaller than us...would that be continual, or just to "jumpstart things"? Either way, 10 mil a year just for athletic fees is insane. That's more than UNT's entire SSF budget (again, as of a few years ago, so now it might be more than the $8.2 million or so it was when I chaired, I haven't looked).

I think the San Marcos area is gorgeous, and wouldn't involve as much with parking and taunting (I hope) as, say, a UT or A&M game. I'd happily take the family for a whole weekend down there.

And as far as not wanting "another" (fill in your reason here) in the Belt...really, it's 5 years away before they can even TRY. I think we might want to wait on things for at least a couple of years before we start talking about it, because...who knows how much can change by then?

[stebo]

Is that really $25 mil a YEAR? At first I thought you meant 25 from now til 2012 or 2014. When I was last on UNT's s.s.f. committee, the Athletics budget was about 2.3 mil, I think (2000-2001 FY). I know the controversial fee increase in the 02-03 year (or was it 01-02?) bumped that up a bit, but our total budget ran around 7-8 mil when I was in-the-know. They want like 3.5 times that (25 mil total)?! They're only a little smaller than us...would that be continual, or just to "jumpstart things"? Either way, 10 mil a year just for athletic fees is insane. That's more than UNT's entire SSF budget (again, as of a few years ago, so now it might be more than the $8.2 million or so it was when I chaired, I haven't looked).

I think the San Marcos area is gorgeous, and wouldn't involve as much with parking and taunting (I hope) as, say, a UT or A&M game. I'd happily take the family for a whole weekend down there.

And as far as not wanting "another" (fill in your reason here) in the Belt...really, it's 5 years away before they can even TRY. I think we might want to wait on things for at least a couple of years before we start talking about it, because...who knows how much can change by then?

Our current athletic budget is about $14.7 million a year. I am not sure when you were SGA pres - but during our initial flirtation with IA in the Big West - our budget was about 6 million a year. Throughout the bowl years we were able to significantly raise the budget. It was sitting at around $11.3 million when CUSA visited the NT campus and they gave us a reccomendation to get to $20 million a year because that was a requirement in their conf bylaws. We have increased the budget an additional $3.5 million since that time and it keeps going up. So - $25 million would be a great budget for TSU-San Marcos, but it is kind of unrealistic. They might be able to get it to $15 million or so but $25 million a year will take some money games and some success at the IA level. I just don't see how they can get their before they move up.

[JesseMartin]

Hmm...I'm trying to remember, and I think the stuff in the SSF budget only shows guaranteed revenue, fees, etc. Pretty sure it doesn't show projections of ticket sales, concessions, donations, etc., all of which are pretty big, because the stuff they request through the state is just the "skeleton budget" - basic travel, facilities/maintenance, uniforms, and salaries (and of course a few other things but that's the main stuff), minus guaranteed game money, any media/sponsorship money and in-hand (unspent) donations or something like that. They still have to report everything in the end, but UNT's Athletics Dept. does a great job of keeping a huge portion of the financing off of the students' shoulders.

I think that is the longest sentence I have ever written up there...

For Texas State to expect all of those (donations, concessions, ticket sales, sponsorships, etc) to exceed ours by almost double when combined with fees...yeah, that still seems pretty suspect.

*Addition*

I re-read that and it still made almost no sense, sorry. The info at the end of the year includes everything they get that's not guaranteed as well as all expenditures. The initial budget just makes sure they're covered for the things I listed (salaries, travel, etc.) I am so friggin' tired...

Edited November 30, 2007 by JesseMartin

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

The latest report (through 8/30/07) shows revenue of $16.8 million and expenses of $15.9 million.

[stebo]

Well, it looks like our budget will continue to go up yet again... we just have to keep moving it up until we hit the $20 million mark. Nice fins. BTW - with the extra "income" - we had just enough left over to refurb Fouts (a little)... I wonder if that included Dickey's buyout from last year or not.

[rcade]

I applaude their effort and would welcome them to the Belt. It would be a fantastic conference road trip for all of us to enjoy.

I'd love to have Texas State in the Belt with us as well. Wish it could happen sooner.

[ADLER]

The Sun Belt would be wise to start a long term plan to add Texas State and Missouri State (formerly Southwest Missouri). Both are large schools with excellent potential that fit well into the Belt geography.

That would give the Belt eleven teams. Get UNO to add football (or add a different school) and the Belt sits at 12 and can split into East and West divisions. Travel for fans will be so much easier, and scheduling regional non-conference games also would become easier.

The Sun Belt needs to just keep continue adding big state schools. By 2014, UNT and TSU will have the third and fourth largest enrollments in Texas, ULL is already second largest in Louisiana as are Arkansas State, Missouri State, and Middle Tennessee in their respective states. The enrollment at the two Florida schools is booming and they are both already in the 30K range. Bigger schools eventually bring better television contracts. Thirty years ago Florida State was very small-time and ECU, UCF, and USF were relatively unknown schools. Times are changing; just look what the past six years has done for North Texas and imagine how quickly things are going to improve one the new stadium gets built.

[stebo]

South Alabama just got permission to field a team starting 2009. IAA to start out.

[NT80]

The Sun Belt would be wise to start a long term plan to add Texas State and Missouri State (formerly Southwest Missouri). Both are large schools with excellent potential that fit well into the Belt geography.

That would give the Belt eleven teams. Get UNO to add football (or add a different school) and the Belt sits at 12 and can split into East and West divisions. Travel for fans will be so much easier, and scheduling regional non-conference games also would become easier.

The Sun Belt needs to just keep continue adding big state schools. By 2014, UNT and TSU will have the third and fourth largest enrollments in Texas, ULL is already second largest in Louisiana as are Arkansas State, Missouri State, and Middle Tennessee in their respective states. The enrollment at the two Florida schools is booming and they are both already in the 30K range. Bigger schools eventually bring better television contracts. Thirty years ago Florida State was very small-time and ECU, UCF, and USF were relatively unknown schools. Times are changing; just look what the past six years has done for North Texas and imagine how quickly things are going to improve one the new stadium gets built.

SBC East: FIU, FAU, Troy, Sou Ala., Muts, WKU

SBC West: UNT, ULL, ULM, ASU, Texas State, Mo State

2012 at the earliest. Geographically better for fans. This only works if it's an all-sports league (sorry Denver, UNO, UALR).

[galojah]

I've not read anything about Missouri State being interested in I-A. In fact, I know someone who works over there and they are not discussing it. They have a pretty good deal in the Missouri Valley Conference. So instead of Missouri State, say maybe Georgia Southern. I'd want the program to be good at ALL revenue sports. Our basketball has to improve. Although, I am apposed to a 12-team conference. We cannot support a conference championship game and it would only likely knock someone of out a bowl anyway.

Also, you're looking at 2014 at the earliest. You have to look two years beyond the end of the moratorium.

Edited November 30, 2007 by galojay

[NT80]

I've not read anything about Missouri State being interested in I-A. In fact, I know someone who works over there and they are not discussing it. They have a pretty good deal in the Missouri Valley Conference. So instead of Missouri State, say maybe Georgia Southern. I'd want the program to be good at ALL revenue sports. Our basketball has to improve. Although, I am apposed to a 12-team conference. We cannot support a conference championship game and it would only likely knock someone of out a bowl anyway.

Also, you're looking at 2014 at the earliest. You have to look two years beyond the end of the moratorium.

Georgia Southern is probably ahead of Mo State to 1-A, not sure about their facilities or fan support. I too don't think a conf champ game is good for the SBC. It's not good this year for the Big12 as it could knock Mizzou out of the Natl Champ game. I like divisions for less travel. I also hope by 2014 UNT is invited to CUSA...

Edited November 30, 2007 by NT80

[Spaceraider]

Georgia Southern is probably ahead of Mo State to 1-A, not sure about their facilities or fan support. I too don't think a conf champ game is good for the SBC....

I've seen Mo. State's stadium - not impressed. Mo State averaged 10,474 for six games this past season. Texas State averaged 11,408 for six games. Georgia Southern has an excellent stadium with room for expansion in their end zone or adding an upper deck. As for as fan support, they averaged 18,925 fans (105 % of capacity) for six games. Appalachian state is doing some upgrades to their stadium now. App State averaged 25,269 for 7 home games so far...that's 151% of stadium capacity.

1AA attendance averages