About The Sun Belt Investigation

[JesseMartin]

The Sun Belt has no say on whether or not they move up--that is all NCAA.

So...can't the Sun Belt point it out to the NCAA? That seems like a realistic bureaucratic notion.

[Bryan316]

From the way I heard it, from someone who was down there, the exchange went like this...

WKU Coach: Get your players off the field!

Dodge: They're waiting for our school song.

WKU Coach: I don't care about your f^%$ing school song. Get your players off the field.

Shouldn't it have been the other way around? Either Dodge telling their coach to get his hoodlums off our field, or their coach telling his own players to get off the field.

[UNTFan23]

From the way I heard it, from someone who was down there, the exchange went like this...

WKU Coach: Get your players off the field!

Dodge: They're waiting for our school song.

WKU Coach: I don't care about your f^%$ing school song. Get your players off the field.

Wow.

[SLCoutsider]

From the way I heard it, from someone who was down there, the exchange went like this...

WKU Coach: Get your players off the field!

Dodge: They're waiting for our school song.

WKU Coach: I don't care about your f^%$ing school song. Get your players off the field.

In all fairness, and I'm not trying to defend anyone's actions here, perhaps the WKU coach said this after the initial altercation and he just wanted both teams to get off the field to avoid further escalation. I heard one of the WKU coaches screaming at his players to "get back to the f**king locker room". He seemed to be trying to do the right thing under the circumstances.

[MeanMag]

This whole matter of a "grenade" is entirely tasteless, especially when we have young men and women of the same age of the players being killed everyday in Iraq by roadside bombs.

Is this a joke? Because I have been closer to the reality of this statement than most on this board, and I don't see a line drawn between a grenade on a football field and what happens in Iraq.

I vote that if this post is not a joke, it's the worst post all season.

[galojah]

In all fairness, and I'm not trying to defend anyone's actions here, perhaps the WKU coach said this after the initial altercation and he just wanted both teams to get off the field to avoid further escalation. I heard one of the WKU coaches screaming at his players to "get back to the f**king locker room". He seemed to be trying to do the right thing under the circumstances.

Yes, this is exactly the situation.

And, be careful what you wish for, you might get it--- the investigation. Their are two sides to every situation guys.... and having talked to a few people, UNT is not innocent in all this. Apparently after the game a football was thrown by a UNT player at our coaches and several UNT players were disrespectful to our coaches and players after the game. Also, from what I am told, UNT player threw the first punch and a video may show this. So, like I said, be careful, you might find you have a little more fault.

Usually in these situtations, you will find both schools did some things wrong. Fights are not generally one-sided.

Having said that, I apologize for anything my school did. As a ticket holder, booster, and alumnus, I want my team to represent the school with class. We did not do this.

Edited November 27, 2007 by galojay

[MeanMag]

Yes, this is exactly the situation.

And, be careful what you wish for, you might get it--- the investigation. Their are two sides to every situation guys.... and having talked to a few people, UNT is not innocent in all this. Apparently after the game a football was thrown by a UNT player at our coaches and several UNT players were disrespectful to our coaches and players after the game. Also, from what I am told, UNT player threw the first punch and a video may show this. So, like I said, be careful, you might find you have a little more fault.

Usually in these situtations, you will find both schools did some things wrong. Fights are not generally one-sided.

Having said that, I apologize for anything my school did. As a ticket holder, booster, and alumnus, I want my team to represent the school with class. We did not do this.

Thanks for the post.

After seeing earlier in the season the disrespect some of our players have shown towards our own coaches, it doesn't surprise me a bit that some showed disrespect towards yours. The majority of our students are good students, and if they don't act like it Dodge will clean them up. Things got a bit unruly during the Dickey tenure, and it's good to see Dodge taking stands.

[eulessismore]

Yes, this is exactly the situation.

And, be careful what you wish for, you might get it--- the investigation. Their are two sides to every situation guys.... and having talked to a few people, UNT is not innocent in all this. Apparently after the game a football was thrown by a UNT player at our coaches and several UNT players were disrespectful to our coaches and players after the game. Also, from what I am told, UNT player threw the first punch and a video will show this. So, like I said, be careful, you might find you have a little more fault.

Usually in these situtations, you will find both schools did some things wrong. Fights are not generally one-sided.

Having said that, I apologize for anything my school did. As a ticket holder, booster, and alumnus, I want my team to represent the school with class. We did not do this.

Welcome to the board; It's good to hear from you, Galojay, and I did notice while following our North Texas fans on the internet that some of them were complaining about the personal foul penalties on North Texas players. Also, while looking around on the Internet for reports of such incidents involving WKU, I did notice your criticism of WKU racking up the personal foul penalties. From a not so rosy point of view, I noticed our fans, and you also, Galojay, were bemoaning the problems that causes in winning the games more than that intentional personal foul penalties (which I would have to consider the choreographed endzone celebration by WKU) are simply a blight on the game, not to mention setting the tone for more dangerous activities. AND speaking of more dangerous activities, I don't recall reading about widespread occurrences of the types of activities for which numerous WKU (and in fairness, Western Illinois, I believe their opponent was) players received numerous NCAA suspensions in 2002. For further information on that, refer to my thread entitled "WKUnsportsmanlike" (maybe I'll change the title of it to show some respect to you, obviously a person who cares, but want you to have a chance to read and comment on it first). Personally, I don't want an investigation...sounds like noone was seriously hurt in Denton last Saturday, but I would like to know that WKU coaching is not encouraging behavior which, if nothing else, is detrimental to your school's image and possibly endangering those on the field during and immediately after games.

[galojah]

I share the potential other side, not to push blame.... because our guys did some stupid stuff. But, to just show that both sides have some blame to share on this.

The sledgehammer incident in 2002 was embarrassing and I was disappointed. I am probably more conservative than most fans today, but I believe in keeping your mouth shut and just play tough. I am not in favor of smack talk between players or fans. It accomplishes nothing.

The grenade celebration, unfortunately, was planned by the players (I don't believe the coaches were aware). That was stupid on their part.

[eulessismore]

I share the potential other side, not to push blame.... because our guys did some stupid stuff. But, to just show that both sides have some blame to share on this.

The sledgehammer incident in 2002 was embarrassing and I was disappointed. I am probably more conservative than most fans today, but I believe in keeping your mouth shut and just play tough. I am not in favor of smack talk between players or fans. It accomplishes nothing.

The grenade celebration, unfortunately, was planned by the players (I don't believe the coaches were aware). That was stupid on their part.

Thanks for your insight, galojay, I DO however, hope they got away from carrying that sledgehammer around with them!

[UNTFan23]

Yes, this is exactly the situation.

And, be careful what you wish for, you might get it--- the investigation. Their are two sides to every situation guys.... and having talked to a few people, UNT is not innocent in all this. Apparently after the game a football was thrown by a UNT player at our coaches and several UNT players were disrespectful to our coaches and players after the game. Also, from what I am told, UNT player threw the first punch and a video may show this. So, like I said, be careful, you might find you have a little more fault.

Usually in these situtations, you will find both schools did some things wrong. Fights are not generally one-sided.

Having said that, I apologize for anything my school did. As a ticket holder, booster, and alumnus, I want my team to represent the school with class. We did not do this.

Let's remember what set the mood for the contest. If your team hadn't been bouncing around jawing before the game even started on top of the grenade celebration, this little mid-field skirmish would have never happened. The fact that similar incidents have happened at other schools says to me your program is in desperate need of some discipline, starting with the head coach.

[galojah]

Let's remember what set the mood for the contest. If your team hadn't been bouncing around jawing before the game even started on top of the grenade celebration, this little mid-field skirmish would have never happened. The fact that similar incidents have happened at other schools says to me your program is in desperate need of some discipline, starting with the head coach.

If those two silly things caused your players to start a fight after the game, then your players emotions are just as erratic and undisciplined. You all won the game, nothing else needed to be said or done. The grenade thing was just stupid and embarrassing for WKU; you all should just laughed at it.

Their were no similar incidents this season. Their was a Florida coach fussing to his old buddies at BGSU because we played their quarterback (the legendary Tebo) rough. But lets not get into all this.

[SLCoutsider]

Isn't the grenade celebration similar to what Georgia did against Florida this year? Lots of folks, including media analysts, were praising Georgia head coach Mark Richt for orchestrating the excessive celebration. It was credited for infusing the team with passion that they were lacking in previous games. Folks might be saying the same thing about WKU if they had won. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I just don't think it was a big deal and certainly not a "dis" worth getting into a brawl over. The weather was miserable, they were a long way from home, no band, no chearleaders, and only about 20 fans in the stands. I can understand them wanting to create some spark. Heck, it even perked me up a little bit.

[Green92]

Isn't the grenade celebration similar to what Georgia did against Florida this year? Lots of folks, including media analysts, were praising Georgia head coach Mark Richt for orchestrating the excessive celebration. It was credited for infusing the team with passion that they were lacking in previous games. Folks might be saying the same thing about WKU if they had won. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I just don't think it was a big deal and certainly not a "dis" worth getting into a brawl over. The weather was miserable, they were a long way from home, no band, no chearleaders, and only about 20 fans in the stands. I can understand them wanting to create some spark. Heck, it even perked me up a little bit.

I thought Richt went insane when the players started acting like idiots and was pulling them off the field.

[JesseMartin]

Let's remember what set the mood for the contest. If your team hadn't been bouncing around jawing before the game even started on top of the grenade celebration, this little mid-field skirmish would have never happened. The fact that similar incidents have happened at other schools says to me your program is in desperate need of some discipline, starting with the head coach.

I'll volunteer to discipline the head coach

[PlummMeanGreen]

Keeping it in the family doesn't explain why they have goats in their closets.

Studies have show that inbred families in that section of the Deep South either produce geniuses or complete socially outcast ritards. It was quite obvious which of the aforementioned 2 groups that Western Kaintuck' brought to Fouts Field last Saturday. Hellsbells, even Abe Lincoln knew it would be a smart move and in his best interest to get the hell out of Kentucky (his birthplace) and move to Illinois.

PS: I think all the other geniuses showed their pedigree and moved over to any native (and probably adopted) Texan's favorite states who (of any other state in the Union) brought the most Volunteers to the Lone Star State in our quest for independence against General Antonio de la Santa Anna, ie, the self-proclaimed Napoleon of the West.

Wonder who the next gol' darned spare the Sun Belt will add when CUSA grabs one of our 'Belt schools for the eastern footprint part of their league? (Sorry, but no Texas school would be considered for their eastern footprint, folks).

do-WAC-a-do-WAC-a-do...

(and pretty darn soon is not soon enough)!

And on a most serious note: You mean the WKU coach said that to our Coach at Our Place--on Texas soil?

"Hell hath no fury than a Texan scorned, Kentuckians, & don't you for damn sure forget it." (comprende)?

Edited November 27, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[UNTflyer]

If those two silly things caused your players to start a fight after the game....

It didn't... your players started the fight.

Their were no similar incidents this season. Their was a Florida coach...

Nice to see that Kentucky education working out for you.

http://www.rhlschool.com/eng3n15.htm

[SLCoutsider]

I thought Richt went insane when the players started acting like idiots and was pulling them off the field.

Check out the videos on YouTube. He even said that he told the team he would be disappointed if they didn't get an excessive celebration penalty after the first touchdown.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7X8aoBaqDQ

I'm not saying it's right, but I can understand.

[eulessismore]

Folks, I doubt if it adds that much to the image of our own superior education to be assigning some guilt by location to those in Western Kentucky, or Kentucky in general over the actions of some college football players among them. As for usage of the English language, Perhaps I could feel a certain Mean Green superiority as a wordsmith if I hadn't taken my required English courses at a school I previously attended (Midwestern State University in Wichita Falls, if you must know). However, I DO think there are some serious issues regarding maintaining discipline and order among student athletes and the programs in which they participate, especially those which are inherently dangerous, such as football. And I will still stand by earlier postings in which I've said that Todd Dodge will not embarress the University of North Texas by tolerating inappropriate behavior among those student athletes under his charge. Yes, there was the student who ended up in jail due to violation of probation (correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the probation was handed down before Dodge came here, and the violation after). Dodge was true to his word of handling such matters on a case-by-case basis, and, in my opinion, handled that situation as well as possible. Some things that happened at the game (no, I did not attend; you can belabor me for that if you wish; wife and mother-in-law made my plans), should perhaps be addressed by some outside review. I have gotten my wife to start attending college ball games with me this year (MTSU and Navy-yes loved that nice weather) others perhaps not. Examples:

A lot of personal fouls are called that are hard to see from the stands, and I think result from players' momentum being difficult to stop once the play is whistled dead or an offensive player goes out of bounds. Others are from gestures or words of individual players that I, and many others here, will boo the officials for making if it goes against our team in a close contest. I hardly see the point in even protesting these calls, and if we were more perfectly sportsmanlike fans, we probably wouldn't boo the refs for making them. I agree with UNTLifer that the calls made against us in the Navy game for our players making the "Claw" sign as they scored on 2 touchdowns weren't really "by the book". Maybe we could have been smart enough not to do it after the first time, and avoided giving Navy a short field on the ensuing kickoff, but that's all in hindsight. Maybe WKU could have been smart enough to learn how closely these things were being watched by Refs here in D1, and avoided those penalties as individuals . The kinds of things I just described I think we could mostly agree, probably come out in the wash, both teams getting some of these, the best teams keeping them to a minimum and avoiding costly penalties.

The part where choreographed as a team, did sound classless. And, if it was viewed by WKU as something for UNT players to laugh at, galojay, why couldn't the WKU players have laughed it off after the game when they were the recipient, instead of starting a fight, as others here have said.

Mostly, I did find the whole thing to be something I've not seen (or heard of) in other games UNT has played, and especially disturbing in light of the reports about the activities by WKU players, and the major suspensions imposed by the NCAA (and to be fair, WKU itself) in 2002, especially the part where one player had to undergo dental implant surgery (I'm having that done now, must question whether college football programs really want to foot the $3000 plus for such work), not to mention the player only being missed by the sledge hammer swinging WKU player by pure luck. People, that is something that could get someone killed; something that WKU and its player would then have to live with. What I was really hoping was that galojay could give us some insight as to whether a particular group of players, or a culture at WKU which had tolerated a tendency among certain of their players to cross a line separating the kinds of extracurricular activity in football that happens and always will, and something that seems aberrant to the point of instigating criminally violent behavior, and whether WKU coaching and administration had taken any steps to discipline their players not to engage in such. Should people really be expected to bring the whole family to something that would more closely resemble "pro" wrestling, or just some sledge hammer assault than college football.

I think these are reasonable questions for people to ask WKU and its supporters.

[JesseMartin]

Hell, when our guys did "the grenade" (didn't know it was called that till today) against Baylor, the crazy refs called back the touchdown...

[UNTLifer]

Just my humble opinion, but I think the "Grenade Celebration" is ridiculous regardless of when it is performed. Score your touchdown and act like you've been there before. Rehearsed celebrations do nothing except say look at me and this is a team sport. I didn't like the grenade celebrations we did a few years ago and don't like it now. Play with respect towards your opponent regardless of their actions.

[JesseMartin]

We (family) agree.

There is nothing more intimidating than scoring and then walking away like you do it all the time. Celebrations make it seem like a big deal. Handshakes or shoulder-slaps are fine. Just make it seem like it's not a big deal. What do you have to be excited about? Maybe if it's your first TD or some special occasion or record, shake your fist or something, jump up and down a couple of times.

But if it's just a TD or an INT or punt return for a TD, hand the ball to the ref and walk away, maybe shake some hands or high-five. It should be a natural thing, and if you do it a few times, the other team thinks so too. I think if I saw a team that didn't celebrate all season, but still had fun, that would be scary as hell. Like, "oh, crap, we're gonna get beat" scary, not like, "too fat to leave the house" scary.

[galojah]

Interesting:

DENTON – Coach Todd Dodge said he would talk to his team about keeping its composure and avoiding personal foul penalties this week after a tension-filled win over Western Kentucky on Saturday.

UNT drew two unsportsmanlike conduct penalties and finished with eight penalties for 90 yards. The Mean Green also staged a "bomb" celebration after the final play of the game. UNT's players formed a circle, threw the ball in the air and fell to the ground when the ball hit the turf. WKU was penalized for a similar celebration late in the first half.

"We are going to address that, even though they did it to us," Dodge said of the bomb celebration.

UNT and WKU players were involved in a scuffle after the game that the Sun Belt Conference is investigating.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...7.41cb00c5.html

Like I said, no one should be naive enough to think they are exempt from kids acting like kids. It was just an unfortunate game where emotions ran wild on both sides.

[SLCoutsider]

Like I said, no one should be naive enough to think they are exempt from kids acting like kids. It was just an unfortunate game where emotions ran wild on both sides.

There you go trying to be the level-headed voice of reason again. Don't you see that we need villains like you to make our own existence better? We need somebody to hate. We've already got Mendoza and Mandy, but that's not enough. We need an entire team, coaching staff, mascott, and fan-base to hate. Better yet, we need to hate your entire state. Even though our coach seems content to let it go and attributed the incident to high emotions, chest thumping, and "bowing up" on both sides, we still need you to be the bad guys because we have so much hate to go around. Please keep posting so that we can continue to hate on you. It makes us feel so much better.

[Green92]

There you go trying to be the level-headed voice of reason again. Don't you see that we need villains like you to make our own existence better? We need somebody to hate. We've already got Mendoza and Mandy, but that's not enough. We need an entire team, coaching staff, mascott, and fan-base to hate. Better yet, we need to hate your entire state. Even though our coach seems content to let it go and attributed the incident to high emotions, chest thumping, and "bowing up" on both sides, we still need you to be the bad guys because we have so much hate to go around. Please keep posting so that we can continue to hate on you. It makes us feel so much better.

SLC...I've felt like you are feeling right now. At times like that I have had to not look at this site for a few days. All the hate and negativity gets very old. Step away from the keyboard.