Attendance?

[UNTflyer]

What about the SBC champtionship game?? I know of two people that were there. Now, I could be wrong but let me go out on a limb here... you weren't the only two at the game.

Heh. I wouldn't walk out on that limb!!

[Cr1028]

Lay off the students. This is the same thing that happened 2 years ago for Patrick Cobbs' final home game. You can't expect students to come out on Thanksgiving weekend.

I'm a student, I wasn't at the game, I was on some 1920's train in Austin with my family going to some Kris Kringle Town craft fair or something. Thanksgiving is about family. I will NEVER choose the Mean Green over my family, no matter how diehard I am.

My best game watching friend wasn't at the game either. He was in Florida with his family.

We both traveled to the OU, SMU, and Arkansas away games but I guess we're just fence sitters because we didn't cut our weekends short with family.

BTW, why don't you ask the head of the Mean Green Club what she thinks about students? That'll give you a pretty good idea of why many students could care less. When Athletic Dept employees treat fans as worthless, how are they to view the athletic program?

[class84]

Just got back from Big Bend National Park with the family. I didn't get a permission slip beforehand, so I'll have to take an unexcused absence for this one.

I did listen to the fourth quarter on the internet, so do I get a couple of brownie points from the attendance czars?

[KingDL1]

Lay off the students. This is the same thing that happened 2 years ago for Patrick Cobbs' final home game. You can't expect students to come out on Thanksgiving weekend.

I'm a student, I wasn't at the game, I was on some 1920's train in Austin with my family going to some Kris Kringle Town craft fair or something. Thanksgiving is about family. I will NEVER choose the Mean Green over my family, no matter how diehard I am.

My best game watching friend wasn't at the game either. He was in Florida with his family.

We both traveled to the OU, SMU, and Arkansas away games but I guess we're just fence sitters because we didn't cut our weekends short with family.

BTW, why don't you ask the head of the Mean Green Club what she thinks about students? That'll give you a pretty good idea of why many students could care less. When Athletic Dept employees treat fans as worthless, how are they to view the athletic program?

Mandy is a pain to the alumni also, and to me it is amazing she still has the job. She did a hideous job with parking in the blue lot.

Edited November 26, 2007 by KingDL1

[pollock]

so exactly where were the other 95K alumni in the metroplex at?? You can blame the students only so much when it is a holiday weekend and the team is less than great this year, why would they come out?

Die-hard alumni will come out in anything but fence-alumni and students need something more than cold rain.

Were you there, bowler?

I was, and it was cold, and it sucked ass.

[jimmyjames_99]

Section F in full force!!! Even brought a buddy that had never been to a UNT game. And even though he was soaked at half-time, stuck it out with me until the end. Of course the beers at Cool Beans before and Hooligans afterwards helped!

Didn't expect much of an attendance, although I was surprised at how few people were in the parking lot 30 minutes before kick-off. At least we didn't have the same complaint about people hanging out in the parking lot during the game!

[UNTLifer]

I've been to the majority of home games at Fouts Field since 1975. Additionally, half of the basketball games over the same period at the Super Pit. You can't find many alums in the metroplex with a similar attendance record! I also love High School football, especially the playoffs. My 2 sons are students at UNT, met my wife at UNT, My wife's deceased mother also graduated from NT. Not only do I continue to support the teams, I'm still writing checks.

Were you at the game? If not, Why?

I was in Houston, where I live now, with family in for Thanksgiving.

Cooley, I know you are a true fan. I was just trying to make a point, and obviously a bad one, that many of our alumni choose to do other things instead of support NT. Before I moved, I was there for almost every game and really miss not being able to come up as often now that I live down here in Houston.

[Mean Green Matt]

I am pretty sure that everyone was frustrated with the attendance. Truth is, everything was against us in trying to get people out there. I am a student, and I was there, so according to previous conversation I reserve the right to speak about this. I was one of about 20 students that I saw, but the students were not on campus. I came back to my dorm on Sunday, and did not see a person for hours...There is no need to just argue amoungst ourselves, and cut each other down. It was ONE GAME, and though disappointing attendance wise, it is in the past, and thank God we came out on top. Thank You to all who were there, those are true fans, but that does not mean it is all of them. Some people could just not make it. GO MEAN GREEN! BEAT FIU!

[AJR2010OX]

Can we refrain using the words "true fan" when describing the people that attended the game? Look, I'm a true fan, I support my school anyway possible. When you dont have a car, and you're in Park Cities visiting a friend who came in from LA, and then having an early holiday with family you havent seein in half a year, I think its acceptable. NT needs to consistently win, and not just the Sun Belt for people to come to Thanksgiving weekend games. Theres a reason why 88000 packed Kyle Field. Its a 100 year tradition. Let's get some kind of tradition goin. Also, lets put a petition together to fire Mandy. Shes bitched at me a couple of times when I go into the athletic center. And obviously she sucks with alumni.

Edited November 26, 2007 by AJR2010OX

[KRAM1]

My wife and I drove back from a Thanksgiving stay in Stillwater, Oklahoma for the game Saturday. It was sad to see that the tailgate section was not even set up, no Exes tent, no President's Council tent, no Letterman's tent, etc., etc. Folks, if we want to be BIG TIME we had better start acting BIG TIME. You should have seen the cars heading to Norman for the OU-OSU game...they had over 80,000 in the stands and it was just as cold and rainy there, and the students were out for Thanksgiving too. I am not going to compare the OU-OSU game with ours, but NO STUDENTS...how many live in Denton and Dallas and Ft. Worth...and a sparce crowd on the alumni side too. Too bad...you guys who skipped the game missed a good victory for the seniors and the Mean Green.

But, until the athletic dept. and the administration start thinking and acting BIG TIME why do we expect anyone else to act that way?????

My wife and I were there...we had a great time watching the Mean Green win...wish you were there too!

GO MEAN GREEN...see you at the Dodge show this evening at Sweetwater...6:30PM...BE THERE!

[UNTflyer]

But, until the athletic dept. and the administration start thinking and acting BIG TIME why do we expect anyone else to act that way?????

You point out that 80,000 showed up for OU-OSU... well, yeah. It's a rivalry, it's two "Big Time" programs, and both schools are within easy driving distance of each other.

Our biggest problem with attendence is the quality of our opponents. Navy is a perfect example of this.

[KRAM1]

UNT Flyer...I agree....who can get fired up too much over Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, Florida whatever you call them, etc., etc. Bring on Navy, Army, TCU, SMU, Tulsa, Baylor, Rice, Tulane, UT El Paso, etc., and then we can talk about some big time attendance and crowds.

But, that being said....where were the students? When students at a school the size of UNT cannot muster any spirit to come to Senior Day and cheer for the Mean Green, well, that says a great deal, doesn't it? But, also, the athletic dept. and administration did not even think enough about the game to set up the tailgate area...there is plenty of "blame" to go around for the small attendance...if you want to be BIG TIME, you have to start acting like it...walking the walk...several years before you ARE BIG TIME. We need to stop "talking" and start walking the walk and that means everyone...the Athletic Dept., The Mean Green Club, The Exes, the administration, the city of Denton, AND THE STUDENTS!

GO MEAN GREEN...see you at the Coach Dodge Show this evening at Sweetwater!

[keith]

It was sad to see that the tailgate section was not even set up, no Exes tent, no President's Council tent, no Letterman's tent, etc., etc. ..... but NO STUDENTS...how many live in Denton and Dallas and Ft. Worth...and a sparce crowd on the alumni side too.

That's how it used to be for every home game! Think about that for awhile. We are light years from what it used to be. Someone posted some pictures of the alumni side and one thing that stuck out was the number of green chair backs setup in the stands. Fellow MGers, those represent season ticket holders that shelled out some extra cash to be a little more comfortable in Fouts. I sat through many games (in perfect weather) when there were not that many PEOPLE in the stands. Obviously not everyone was able to make it out to the game on Saturday (me included - I did get to watch via the Internet), but it seems like we are finally gettinig that base to build upon. 2-9 makes for a long season - United We Stand, Divided We Fall. How about getting back to what we have to be thankful for?

Keith

[KRAM1]

I'm thankful for all the fans who did find a way to make it to the game on Saturday. I enjoyed your company. I am also thankful for a VERY enjoyable 2-9 season...I think we'll be 3-9 before all is said and done....I too sat in the stands for many years with many fewer fans than we had Saturday....hey, I was there for the Florida State game in the snow several years ago...as an aside, it is amazing how many people I run into today that claim to have been at that game too...man, I could have introduced myself to eveyone there in anout 10 minutes...I wonder where all these other folks were hiding at that game???? Maybe they were all in the restrooms??????

Anyway, great to have Coach Dodge...things are getting better and better for the Mean Green Nation!

[keith]

I was there for the Florida State game in the snow several years ago...as an aside, it is amazing how many people I run into today that claim to have been at that game too.....

LOL...I was thinking the same thing about this game. In a few years, we'll all be amazed at how many were there when the tide turned.

Thanks to all who braved the cold and rain (I wish I could have numbed my toes along side you) and to those who cheered and yelled at their computers. Go Mean Green!

Keith

[UNTflyer]

First, I will say I didn't make the game. I intended to go directly to the game after we landed. We were flying back from Columbus, OH after celebrating Thanksgiving in WV... our flight was delayed over an hour and by the time we got into my truck, I turned on the radio and it was 14-7 in the 2nd quarter. By the time I made it up to Denton I believe it was already the 3rd quarter.

Not to mention, I was sick as a dog, puking three times at the airport and once on the plane. So, sorry guys... I just couldn't bring myself to go out to watch the 2nd half.

But, that being said....where were the students?

On this one, I am going to have to agree... It's not like UNT draws a great percentage of its students from all over the country, we're not a USC or a Texas or a Miami. Most of the students hail from the North Texas area. We also have a large number of alumni in DFW.

No, we just have to admit that while the holiday and the weather played a factor in attendance, this was still a 1-9 SBC team playing a Div I-AA team. And nobody gave a crap.

[Cr1028]

Go ahead and blame the students. I guess you guys forget what it is like to be up in Denton buried in books and then finally get your longest weekend off of the semester. You're right, they should've all just cut the time they have short with their families. Maybe they live in DFW, maybe their parents live in DFW, but have you thought about where grandma may live, the Thanksgiving cruise or ski trip? If this had been a vanilla weekend, you would have seen the regular student crowd because they would not have been on a well deserved break 2 weeks before finals.

Blame whoever scheduled the game the Saturday after Thanksgiving. There were just as few fans at the 2005 senior day that was one year removed from the Sun Belt title and the final home game of all-time rushing leader Patrick Cobbs. You can't compare us to OU, Texas, A&M, etc. because they have overflow crowds and sell out just about every game. That means more people want to be in the stadium than can get in. If some decide not to go, the ones that usually can't get in gladly fill in. Remind me, when has Fouts sold out? Or even WKU's stadium for that matter?

Weren't you guys just complaining a few weeks ago about how disappointing the alumni side was and how proud you were of the vocal student side? Give it a rest. For whatever reason, they were not in Denton(as Mean Green Matt pointed out), if they had been, they would've been at the game. You can keep your alumnus "holier than thou" "I went to the game and you didn't" attitude.

[meangreendork]

Go ahead and blame the students. I guess you guys forget what it is like to be up in Denton buried in books and then finally get your longest weekend off of the semester. You're right, they should've all just cut the time they have short with their families. Maybe they live in DFW, maybe their parents live in DFW, but have you thought about where grandma may live, the Thanksgiving cruise or ski trip? If this had been a vanilla weekend, you would have seen the regular student crowd because they would not have been on a well deserved break 2 weeks before finals.

Blame whoever scheduled the game the Saturday after Thanksgiving. There were just as few fans at the 2005 senior day that was one year removed from the Sun Belt title and the final home game of all-time rushing leader Patrick Cobbs. You can't compare us to OU, Texas, A&M, etc. because they have overflow crowds and sell out just about every game. That means more people want to be in the stadium than can get in. If some decide not to go, the ones that usually can't get in gladly fill in. Remind me, when has Fouts sold out? Or even WKU's stadium for that matter?

Weren't you guys just complaining a few weeks ago about how disappointing the alumni side was and how proud you were of the vocal student side? Give it a rest. For whatever reason, they were not in Denton(as Mean Green Matt pointed out), if they had been, they would've been at the game. You can keep your alumnus "holier than thou" "I went to the game and you didn't" attitude.

I'm with you here. Even as a recent alumni, I remember the 2005 game and it was bleak.

You wanna blame someone? Blame the people who schedule a game during one of the highest traveled weekends of the year for Americans AS A WHOLE, not just college kids. It sure is easy to get to the game when your whole family lives in DFW or you're planning to stay close to campus that weekend, but really, seriously...

...if you value a football team more than your own family, then you should probably re-evaluate your priorities.

[JesseMartin]

A few things, but first...

Mandy is a pain to the alumni also, and to me it is amazing she still has the job. She did a hideous job with parking in the blue lot.

It's a wonder that she hasn't been fired. She must have some serious stroke with all the right people if she still pulls a paycheck from UNT.

Now watch her track me down and scold me at a game. From what I've been told, she isn't one to take criticism lying down.

Also, lets put a petition together to fire Mandy. Shes bitched at me a couple of times when I go into the athletic center. And obviously she sucks with alumni.

A few years ago, after I got laid off, I was working 4 part-time jobs until I found something permanent. I asked her about the different MGC packages, and she said, "Why do you want to know?" I told her as soon as things were back to normal, I'd like to donate again, and get the fun stuff that went along with the MGC too. She said, "I'm really not sure if we want your money with an attitude like that." And she walked away. I spoke to Rick V, who said he'd heard about the altercation, and he said he had had words with her. I said I was glad they had talked but wasn't so sure about donating if she was involved. To this day, no $$ for Athletics from me. I think I mentioned this earlier this year...I won't put any money in the program if it means dealing with that evil b!tch.

Now...the other stuff.

Many of you may not have been around for it, but while he was a student, Emmitt, in my opinion, single-handedly changed the spirit attitude of the student body over a few years' time. He had the same challenging attitude, and was very blunt, and it worked, at least while we were there. After he took over as the Pres. of Talons, I don't think I saw 1/10th as many Aggie, Baylor, UT, etc. shirts on campus, and there were a lot more students at games. Students actually knew the Fight Song and the Alma Mater and eagle claw. It can't all be attributed to him, but he played a big part. Even when I (rarely, now) see him in person, he's still as aggressive about me getting to games as much as I used to. I don't think that's a bad thing.

Family...in the long run, why can't the UNT game be a family outing? HOW MANY PEOPLE go to Aggie or OU games with their families?!!! They hunt or whatever the day after. They won't miss the game, and the whole family goes with them.

Attendance...again, for those who were around back then and even bothered to notice, I was the one painted up shirtless with the friends I dragged along with me, even in the bitter cold wind. Then, after all the singing was done, we would run as fast as we could to the car or dorm. Until last year's season...Emmitt, you could probably answer this, since nobody else uses their real name on this board and so I don't know whether or not I know them...how many games did I miss?

Dates...again, see the family point above. Also, though I was in over 20 orgs. and was an officer in most of them, I still graduated cum laude, almost magna. Thanksgiving weekend WAS a great time to get ahead on everything, study, etc, but my study break was to go to the game. Plus, there are TONS of students in town that live in off-campus apartments, many of whom DO NOT go home for the holidays.

Long term...For everyone who has been around for a while and already has the schedule that allows them to go to the games, keep it up. Keep in mind that a lot of us that graduated within the past 5-10 years are pretty low on the totem pole at various jobs. Of the alums I keep in touch with who are still in the area, most work crazy hours and can't make it to the games. I've tried to hook up with some former SGA people to go together, and most are working about 70 hours a week, or at least have to work weekends.

I think that the tone Emmitt and some others set on spirit will come to fruition in a few years when we are all doing well enough that we can be off for whatever games we want. Hopefully, that will also include dragging the whole family in on Thanksgiving, which I hope to do when Carter, my little GREEN man, is big enough (next year?). And as for high school games...I hope he goes to UNT, but even before then, I'd love to see him play on a Friday night and then bring him to Denton on Saturday. I can be a part of his life and show him part of mine as well. I never really knew my father, because he didn't want to do anything together, just be the boss and then ignore me when I grew up no matter how well I did in anything. Don't know if anybody else had a similar problem, but I'd really like to be closer to my baby than I ever was to my dad, and the experience that NORTH TEXAS was to me is a big way to begin that.

[UNTflyer]

I don't think anyone is "blaming" the students specifically... just pointing out that it being a holiday weekend is kind of a cop-out.

I think the biggest factors for the attendance were... We suck, the weather sucked, and we were playing a I-AA team (who, BTW, almost beat us).

If we were playing Troy for the Sun Belt Title, Thanksgiving would not have been a factor as far as student attendance.

[Eagle1855]

Emmitt, in my opinion, single-handedly changed the spirit attitude of the student body over a few years' time.

Well there's your answer, UNTSIG... he actually IS the greatest fan of them all.

[CMJ]

Emmitt's been my best friend for a long time. Part of the reason School Spirit increased night and day when he was President was - it was our 1st Sunbelt title. Winning cures cancer as we all know.

That said, he's one of the best fans we could ever hope to have. He goes over the top some, and I don't agree with him 100%(and it'd be easy to poke him in the ribs a bit about events HE can't or won't make with the same derision he shows) but I understand his frustration. I went to quite a few poorly attended football games when I was in school. Probably the best game I ever saw in Fouts(Utah State '97) had...maybe 4-5K. MAYBE. (Oddly enough that was also a Senior day game)

It does come down to winning on a certain level. Crowds will be big in the beginning of the season - hope springs eternal. Some of the new Dodge luster will be gone, but the crowds will stay, or increase if we win. Another 2-3 victory season? You'll see a similar crowd next November.

Edited November 26, 2007 by CMJ

[emmitt01]

we aspire to be respected with the big boys...yet turn around and lay the same bullshit excuse of "those schools are big time and can expect a loyal following" out there as if the blatant hypocrisy of it isn't staring us in the face...

So which one is it folks? Do we want to be big time or do we want to continue claiming we're not and then turn as our crutch and then turn around a complain about lack of respect? Heads or Tails. A or B. Which one?

OU vs. OSU...was it on Thanksgiving weekend or was it not? How about TX vs. aTm? Was the weather bad or was it not?

Blame the students. Blame the administration. Blame the alumni. Hell, blame me, that's en vogue. But whomever you choose to point the finger at realize that we will never EVER be spoken of in the same breath as those we want to compare ourselves to, no not even Boise State, until we stop leaning on our crutch of "we're not there yet." Gee, why aren't we there yet? Could it be...just a guess...we don't pack Fouts because the Mean Green are playing and not because of WHO the Mean Green are playing?

Sure, point to how we don't win consistently. Just show me the pictures of an empty Kyle Field when they're losing.

Tell me we don't have a history of winning. But then explain to me what reason, any reason, a quality athlete has to come to Denton to play to sparse crowds.

Blame our athletics department for their promotions. But also pretend our games aren't in every major paper in DFW, on the athletics website, and talked about in conversation amongst our fanbase.

Which one do we truly want? Excuses...or results. We asked the same question of Dickey and fired him.

This is not intended as a sermon to chastise you sinners. Please, I don't think I could handle being called "super fan" one more time. And, no, I'm not just talking about Saturday. But I've seen the same circular arguments bandied about since I was 4 growing up in Denton. Then I heard them as a student. The proverbial line in the sand has gotta be drawn somewhere, right?

[meangreendork]

It does come down to winning on a certain level. Crowds will be big in the beginning of the season - hope springs eternal. Some of the new Dodge luster will be gone, but the crowds will stay, or increase if we win. Another 2-3 victory season? You'll see a similar crowd next November.

Too true.

[Eagle1855]

Blame the students. Blame the administration. Blame the alumni. Hell, blame me, that's en vogue. But whomever you choose to point the finger at realize that we will never EVER be spoken of in the same breath as those we want to compare ourselves to, no not even Boise State, until we stop leaning on our crutch of "we're not there yet." Gee, why aren't we there yet? Could it be...just a guess...we don't pack Fouts because the Mean Green are playing and not because of WHO the Mean Green are playing?

I agree with these points and I believe most people wouldn't argue with the intent of your original posting- it's logical, it makes sense. Rather it was the pompous ass-ity with which the sermon was delivered that pissed people off. It's not being sensitive, people (generally speaking) don't enjoy being talked down to.

A couple other important things to note... we aren't any of the aforementioned teams. Winning DOES matter. Playing named opponents does matter. Playing in a legitimate conference DOES matter. The only reason Boise is among the names you mentioned is because they started WINNING. Becoming one of the schools you mention requires a change in the culture of the University. I personally think that change was effected a few years ago and that we just haven't seen the big payoff- yet. I mean, the fact that we had a chance to post the highest avg crowd in school history in spite of an abortion of a season says A LOT. We're moving in the right direction.

Aside from that, this is probably the biggest asswhip of a thread I've read in a long, long time. Seriously, "logo talk" thinks this thread is a beating.