Wac Had Bcs Bowl Champ, Now Has 2 In Top 25

Green Lantern · November 27, 2007

Hey, some teams leave it all on the field, some team's coaches leave it all on Bourbon Street- quite literally- the night before...

True...It's always discouraging to see starters for your defense out at Razoo's partying with the fans at 3:00 a.m. the night before the game. I was shocked to actually see this with my own two eyes. I believe the announcers during the game even commented on the "dehydration" of one (or several) of the NT players. Go figure.

Quoner · November 27, 2007

There have been many generalizations made by many, but no one wants to seem to want to step out and say: The SBC (unranked and not likely to be any time soon) is where we need to hang our hats for the next decade or so--Top 25 or no Top 25.
I think some have started their own thread within a thread to be honest, because all I've tried to stick to is what the thread title pretty well says: you know, "WAC has had 2 in top 25, one BCS Championship Bowl Game winner and now has 2 in the Top 25 (or pretty close to that). I didn't realize we had so many who didn't want to see our school improve itself.
For you who think Bottom 25 is the wave of our future, you probably will also get your wishes while UNT stays put "SBC-Style" and we watch another host of schools pass us right by.
You who have not been around to experience the passing parade of schools who have passed UNT by the last 4 decades while we stay the same (or less) can post all your theories till the cows come home, but you have not lived the frustration of having witnessed all this as UNT students and UNT alums as many of us have. Trust me, if this is what some of you get the next 30 years in Mean Green Country, then you may just kick your own ass for having made UNT athletics some kind of religion or something, because I for damn sure have been kicking my own for doing such of late.
BUT........FWIW............I still think Todd Dodge is the kind of coach, disciplinarian and human being who can get the Mean Green back to the Glory Days--or at least what many of us call the Glory Days (which included Top 20 rankings and wins over schools who would have been bowl teams had their been as many back in the 1970's).
PS: Sorry, guys, I'm not going to get in on WAC talk turned Playboy Channel.

/Serious

Plumm, in all seriousness (see how many times I used the word?), how can having an excuse to play the worst teams to pad win totals and gradually expand the schedule to win 8-10 games every year be bad? No, we won't be as good as Bose or Hawaii right away, but until we are making it in the Sun Belt, why have this argument? In 2004 this line of questioning made sense, but coming from a team that is winning a handful of games per year, it seems absurd.

For now, we've got to reclaim our position on top of the "bottom 25" before we can move up. No one thought we "arrived" in the early aughts, it was just higher than we had been in decades.

/End Serious

Wright Waters wears a velvet merkin.

This is becoming a very crazy argument where everyone is, in some weird way, agreeing.

CMJ · November 27, 2007

I think some have started their own thread within a thread to be honest, because all I've tried to stick to is what the thread title pretty well says: you know, "WAC has had 2 in top 25, one BCS Championship Bowl Game winner and now has 2 in the Top 25 (or pretty close to that). I didn't realize we had so many who didn't want to see our school improve itself.

Geez louise Plumm, I don't think you read a damn explanation of what any of us have said. All you see is that we say the WAC is not the way to go and you come back with "they have 2 schools in the top 25" & "the Sunbelt doesn't have a voting bloc to put our champ into the top 25". Both points which have been addressed.

All you read is what you want to read. Yes, I admit - I don't want to see NT improve itself. :rolleyes:

emmitt01 · November 27, 2007

Plumm you know I love you. So let me hit the main bullet points in succint fashion so you can see the glaring facts you seem to skim over (no "pompous ass-ity intended)

1)Budget- As it stands now we have to play a murderer's row in football to stay above water. We are forced to play the UT's, OU's, LSU's of the world and take the almost automatic losses that come with them. These automatic losses mean no top 25 votes. And we're doing this is in a semi-regional conference. If we were to take your advice and go to the WAC, land of guaranteed top 25 bids (we'll ignore the voluminous evidence to the contrary), then we will get to stop scheduling these "body bag" games cuz we'll have WAC prestige, right? Wrong. If anything we'll have to schedule more of them just to stay afloat because of the added travel costs for footbal...and basketball (both genders)...soccer...golf...swimming/diving...volleyball...etc. We'll actually be further away from national respectability because of a worse win/loss record.

2)The SBC isn't holding us back- If I pulled out a magic check and wrote it out in the amount of 5mil (1mil per year to offset not going to UT/OU/LSU) then we could change our schedule to look like this:

OU Nichols State at home

at SMU

FAU at home

~~Arkansas~~ Rice at home/away

at ULL

ULM at home

at Troy

MUTS at home

Navy at home

at ASU

WKU at home

at FIU

Now we're potentially talking about a sixth home game and a much, much, easier schedule. We could potentially go 10-2, 11-1, hell even 12-0 with this schedule. We'd have top 25 votes and/or inclusion because of our win/loss record and not because we play in the Sun Belt. Oh, and one more thing...we'd be scheduling exactly the same way Boise and Hawaii do. And did I mention that if you turn on your radio right now there are sports jocks and callers from across the country knocking Hawaii for the schedule they play (yeah, even in the mighty WAC) but to a person they are saying "but they deserve to be in the BCS because they're undefeated." Hmmm...what could all five years of a schedule like this do for a program?

3)We'll never sell a SBC schedule- Hmm...let's look at that more closely using this season as an example.

Week 1 OU loss 79-10

Week 2 SMU loss 45-31 (and brought about 7-8,000 to Ford)

Week 3 Loss to FAU 30-20 (20,479 showed up to watch an 0-2 team against a SUN BELT school)

Week 3 Loss to Ark 66-7

Week 4 Loss to ULL 38-29

Week 5 Beat ULM 31-21 (18,973 showed up for an 0-5 team against another SUN BELT school)

Week 6 Loss to Troy 45-7

Week 7 Loss to MUTS 48-28 (18,181 showed up for an 1-6 team against a SUN BELT school)

Week 8 Loss to Navy 74-62 (26,012 showed up to see a 1-7 team that plays in the Sun Belt)

Week 9 Loss to Ark St 31-27

Week 10 Win over WKU (5,027 showed up on what I'm told is a family holiday)

Week 11 We play another Sun Belt school on the road in FIU

So, all in all, against a league that you claim nobody gives a damn about our home average for the year was 17,734. In fairness since you may think this is a mirage based on the Navy game I'll give you the average against only lowly Sun Belt teams. 15,665...for a team that has won 1, count em, 1 game. If you take away the horrible weather and leave the WKU game on Thanksgiving I'll assume a bump of about 4,000 fans (and I think that's modest) you come to an attendance average of 16,665 or roughly 1,000 less than including the Navy game in the average...nominal if you ask me.

But let's get really tricky (and honest) with the numbers. Let's assume we keep the schedule just as it is (body bag games and all) and assume we see improvement in next years team. I'm gonna factor in 2,000 fans for every additional win (and you'll see that this isn't so far fetched when you look at the record as it builds). And I'll even factor in a low ball number assuming bad weather and Thanksgiving.

Week 1 OU loss 79-10

Week 2 SMU win 45-31 (and brought about 7-8,000 to Ford)

Week 3 Loss to FAU 30-20 (22,479 show up to watch an 1-1 team against a SUN BELT school)

Week 3 Loss to Ark 66-7

Week 4 Win against ULL 38-29

Week 5 Beat ULM 31-21 (22,973 show up for a 2-3 team against another SUN BELT school)

Week 6 Loss to Troy 35-25

Week 7 Win against MUTS 35-31 (24,181 show up for an 3-4 team against a SUN BELT school)

Week 8 Win against Navy 74-62 (28,012 show up to see a 4-4 team that plays in the Sun Belt)

Week 9 Win against Ark St 31-27

Week 10 Win over WKU (14,027 show up on what I'm told is a family holiday to see a 6-4 team)

Week 11 We play another Sun Belt school on the road in FIU but we're 7-4 going in.

Final season attendance average? 22,334. Impossible some say? I don't think so and I'd better several here would agree. Having the right coach and WINNING would make this possible. Now................just imagine if we played a Boise State or Hawaii schedule.

Edited November 27, 2007 by emmitt01

PlummMeanGreen · November 28, 2007

Plumm you know I love you. So let me hit the main bullet points in succint fashion so you can see the glaring facts you seem to skim over (no "pompous ass-ity intended)
1)Budget- As it stands now we have to play a murderer's row in football to stay above water. We are forced to play the UT's, OU's, LSU's of the world and take the almost automatic losses that come with them. These automatic losses mean no top 25 votes. And we're doing this is in a semi-regional conference. If we were to take your advice and go to the WAC, land of guaranteed top 25 bids (we'll ignore the voluminous evidence to the contrary), then we will get to stop scheduling these "body bag" games cuz we'll have WAC prestige, right? Wrong. If anything we'll have to schedule more of them just to stay afloat because of the added travel costs for footbal...and basketball (both genders)...soccer...golf...swimming/diving...volleyball...etc. We'll actually be further away from national respectability because of a worse win/loss record.
2)The SBC isn't holding us back- If I pulled out a magic check and wrote it out in the amount of 5mil (1mil per year to offset not going to UT/OU/LSU) then we could change our schedule to look like this:
OU Nichols State at home
at SMU
FAU at home
~~Arkansas~~ Rice at home/away
at ULL
ULM at home
at Troy
MUTS at home
Navy at home
at ASU
WKU at home
at FIU
Now we're potentially talking about a sixth home game and a much, much, easier schedule. We could potentially go 10-2, 11-1, hell even 12-0 with this schedule. We'd have top 25 votes and/or inclusion because of our win/loss record and not because we play in the Sun Belt. Oh, and one more thing...we'd be scheduling exactly the same way Boise and Hawaii do. And did I mention that if you turn on your radio right now there are sports jocks and callers from across the country knocking Hawaii for the schedule they play (yeah, even in the mighty WAC) but to a person they are saying "but they deserve to be in the BCS because they're undefeated." Hmmm...what could all five years of a schedule like this do for a program?
3)We'll never sell a SBC schedule- Hmm...let's look at that more closely using this season as an example.
Week 1 OU loss 79-10
Week 2 SMU loss 45-31 (and brought about 7-8,000 to Ford)
Week 3 Loss to FAU 30-20 (20,479 showed up to watch an 0-2 team against a SUN BELT school)
Week 3 Loss to Ark 66-7
Week 4 Loss to ULL 38-29
Week 5 Beat ULM 31-21 (18,973 showed up for an 0-5 team against another SUN BELT school)
Week 6 Loss to Troy 45-7
Week 7 Loss to MUTS 48-28 (18,181 showed up for an 1-6 team against a SUN BELT school)
Week 8 Loss to Navy 74-62 (26,012 showed up to see a 1-7 team that plays in the Sun Belt)
Week 9 Loss to Ark St 31-27
Week 10 Win over WKU (5,027 showed up on what I'm told is a family holiday)
Week 11 We play another Sun Belt school on the road in FIU
So, all in all, against a league that you claim nobody gives a damn about our home average for the year was 17,734. In fairness since you may think this is a mirage based on the Navy game I'll give you the average against only lowly Sun Belt teams. 15,665...for a team that has won 1, count em, 1 game. If you take away the horrible weather and leave the WKU game on Thanksgiving I'll assume a bump of about 4,000 fans (and I think that's modest) you come to an attendance average of 16,665 or roughly 1,000 less than including the Navy game in the average...nominal if you ask me.
But let's get really tricky (and honest) with the numbers. Let's assume we keep the schedule just as it is (body bag games and all) and assume we see improvement in next years team. I'm gonna factor in 2,000 fans for every additional win (and you'll see that this isn't so far fetched when you look at the record as it builds). And I'll even factor in a low ball number assuming bad weather and Thanksgiving.
Week 1 OU loss 79-10
Week 2 SMU win 45-31 (and brought about 7-8,000 to Ford)
Week 3 Loss to FAU 30-20 (22,479 show up to watch an 1-1 team against a SUN BELT school)
Week 3 Loss to Ark 66-7
Week 4 Win against ULL 38-29
Week 5 Beat ULM 31-21 (22,973 show up for a 2-3 team against another SUN BELT school)
Week 6 Loss to Troy 35-25
Week 7 Win against MUTS 35-31 (24,181 show up for an 3-4 team against a SUN BELT school)
Week 8 Win against Navy 74-62 (28,012 show up to see a 4-4 team that plays in the Sun Belt)
Week 9 Win against Ark St 31-27
Week 10 Win over WKU (14,027 show up on what I'm told is a family holiday to see a 6-4 team)
Week 11 We play another Sun Belt school on the road in FIU but we're 7-4 going in.
Final season attendance average? 22,334. Impossible some say? I don't think so and I'd better several here would agree. Having the right coach and WINNING would make this possible. Now................just imagine if we played a Boise State or Hawaii schedule.

Fair enough, Emmitt..

I will shamelessly post a paragraph from an above post of mine that really sizes up most of my frustrations of what I fear our hanging in there with the SBC may ultimately do to us and this is what I really don't want to happen to all you guys, ie, our next generation of NT alums and Mean Green fans. Here is that paragraph:

You who have not been around to experience the passing parade of schools who have passed UNT by the last 4 decades while we stay the same (or less) can post all your theories till the cows come home, but you have not lived the frustration of having witnessed all this as UNT students and UNT alums as many of us have. Trust me, if this is what some of you get the next 30 years in Mean Green Country, then you may just kick your own ass for having made UNT athletics some kind of religion or something, because I for damn sure have been kicking my own for doing such of late.

0K, I really feel the reason we had so many schools who passed us by in past decades and allow me to list a few starting with UNT's former Missouri Valley Conference-mates some of whom had already left or...........had plans to leave the Valley before Fry took us out: We can start with Louisville, Houston, Memphis, Cincinatti; and then we can add Southern Miss, Florida State (believe that or not), Boise State, South Florida, Central Florida and are we going to be adding Troy U soon enough?

But the one thing that we seemed to be doing at UNT while all the above schools were shaking and baking and moving up the NCAA food chain I feel can best be described by the one word: NOTHING...

It we stand still in today's NCAA, then that most likely means we are losing ground in today's NCAA.

Promise to all: This is my last post on this thread subject. :lol: