So, You Think You Can Afford New Cowboy Stadium $eats?

[NT80]

Dallas Cowboys to begin season-ticket sales for new stadium

05:34 PM CST on Tuesday, November 20, 2007

By SUZANNE MARTA / The Dallas Morning News

smarta@dallasnews.com

Team officials said Tuesday they plan to mail information packets to the Cowboys' 15,000 season-ticket holders as soon as Wednesday, outlining how to get first dibs on similar seats at the new Cowboys' new Arlington stadium when it opens in 2009.

Season-ticket holders who currently have the best seats at Irving's Texas Stadium – located in the lower bowl – will get the first shot at the seats in the new Cowboys home.

In the new stadium, the comparable locations will be "Club Seats." The 15,000 club seats will be roomier (21 inches wide compared to 19 inches for the regular seat) and come with access to premium parking, access to air-conditioned clubs and upscale dining options.

They also come with a hefty price tag: $340 per game, plus a 30-year personal seat license or seat option payment of at least $16,000 that will go to fund the Cowboys' $675 million portion of the stadium.

The personal seat license, which may be transferred and sold as an asset, gives the holder the rights to buy season tickets each year for 30 years.

Folks who have seats in the upper bowl and end zone areas will be able to buy seats in February. Cowboys officials said Tuesday they didn't have pricing details to share for those seats.

Non-season-ticket holders won't have a chance to buy a seat until June. Those fans will be able to get on a waiting list starting in early December after paying a $100 non-refundable deposit.

[filmerj]

Just another way to screw the people who really care about football. I bet most of the seats are owned by corporations, much like the Dallas Stars seats. People who love hockey have to sit up top becuase lower bowl are sold out, and then you get to the arena and there are tons of seats open down there. Makes me sick.

[Rudy]

A 150% increase in ticket prices. Man, Jones makes it easier to hate the Cowpukes every day. First he screws the great Landry, then his ego rids us of Johnson which puts us on a coaching roller coaster ever since, his new stadium must include jerryworld, he wont give the City of Dallas a fair shot to have a downtown stadium, now his egotistical arse wants to screw the loyal fans and the average joe who wants to take his kids to a game. This new price increase will force a family of 4 to fork over $1k just for a family get together.

It will be one of the top 5 days of my life when the jones no longer own the team.

[good_ken]

A 150% increase in ticket prices. Man, Jones makes it easier to hate the Cowpukes every day. First he screws the great Landry, then his ego rids us of Johnson which puts us on a coaching roller coaster ever since, his new stadium must include jerryworld, he wont give the City of Dallas a fair shot to have a downtown stadium, now his egotistical arse wants to screw the loyal fans and the average joe who wants to take his kids to a game. This new price increase will force a family of 4 to fork over $1k just for a family get together.

It will be one of the top 5 days of my life when the jones no longer own the team.

Jerry has done some things; but don't blame him because Laura Miller is an idiot. He offered to finance 50% of renovating that pit known affectionately as Fair Park. And the City of Dallas told him to pound sand....and now they want to spend 50 million on fixing up the Cotton Bowl.

[UNTflyer]

Agreed. Laura Miller will forever be remembered, right or wrong, as the mayor that failed to bring the Cowboys home.

Even if Jerry demanded 100% financing from the city, they should have done it. The marketing and tourism and development in downtown Dallas would have paid for the stadium costs in no time.

[KingDL1]

Agreed. Laura Miller will forever be remembered, right or wrong, as the mayor that failed to bring the Cowboys home.

Even if Jerry demanded 100% financing from the city, they should have done it. The marketing and tourism and development in downtown Dallas would have paid for the stadium costs in no time.

Historically towns lose money on stadiums.

[NT80]

Jerry has done some things; but don't blame him because Laura Miller is an idiot. He offered to finance 50% of renovating that pit known affectionately as Fair Park. And the City of Dallas told him to pound sand....and now they want to spend 50 million on fixing up the Cotton Bowl.

I am surprised the City of Dallas has any businesses left in it. With that City Council there is no way I'd move a company there. I'm also surprised Irving didn't make a bigger push to try and get the new stadium at Las Colinas.

[UNTflyer]

In other stadium news...

The Dallas Cowboys enter a bid to hold a future NCAA men's basketball Final Four at the new stadium in Arlington. The NCAA is currently accepting bids for the 2012 through 2016 Final Fours. The Cowboys already have the 2011 Super Bowl and the Cotton Bowl as of 2010 lined up among their high profile events.

[Green Mean]

A 150% increase in ticket prices. Man, Jones makes it easier to hate the Cowpukes every day. First he screws the great Landry, then his ego rids us of Johnson which puts us on a coaching roller coaster ever since, his new stadium must include jerryworld, he wont give the City of Dallas a fair shot to have a downtown stadium, now his egotistical arse wants to screw the loyal fans and the average joe who wants to take his kids to a game. This new price increase will force a family of 4 to fork over $1k just for a family get together.

It will be one of the top 5 days of my life when the jones no longer own the team.

Did you enjoy those 3 Super Bowls? I bet you did.

[KingDL1]

In other stadium news...

The Dallas Cowboys enter a bid to hold a future NCAA men's basketball Final Four at the new stadium in Arlington. The NCAA is currently accepting bids for the 2012 through 2016 Final Fours. The Cowboys already have the 2011 Super Bowl and the Cotton Bowl as of 2010 lined up among their high profile events.

Much like the Olympics professional football stadiums end up just costing the community. In a football stadium's case the side business created is less then a good conference center, on pro games almost no extra revenue is created for the town. The stadium themselves are huge traps that all revenue generated at the stadium goes to the team owner. A couple of events in the end don't really do much unless you can have back to back events. Better Arlington then any of us in Dallas having to pay for that thing.

I see the big businesses lining up to headquarter in Arlington.

[UNTflyer]

Historically towns lose money on stadiums.

Actually, like most economic phenomena, that is subject to debate.

Many of the studies against sports stadiums are based solely on NPV over a short period of time, like less than 10 years, and they only take into account the revenue generated by stadium operations. Studies that are favorable to stadium development take into account the ripple affect of pre- and post-game economic activities, the local economic impact of the team (you've got about 100 more milionaires shopping in your city), the construction jobs created by building the stadium, the new restaurants that are built, etc.

Edited November 21, 2007 by UNTflyer

[KingDL1]

Actually, like most economic phenomena, that is subject to debate.

Many of the studies against sports stadiums are based solely on NPV over a short period of time, like less than 10 years, and they only take into account the revenue generated by stadium operations. Studies that are favorable to stadium development take into account the ripple affect of pre- and post-game economic activities, the local economic impact of the team (you've got about 100 more milionaires shopping in your city), the construction jobs created by building the stadium, the new restaurants that are built, etc.

There is hardly any revenue shared directly with the community due to crazy contracts and tax relief. All the articles I have read tried hard to show the ripple affect or trickle down affect, and they always pointed to it being a loss. But in Arlington we still have the prestige, without the costs. In fact Dallas will almost for sure benefit from Arlington paying for it. Who wants to stay in Arlington? This is win win for Dallas. I did and still do hate Lara Miller but I was definitely against spending Dallas money on this Jerry monument.

Did you ever read the agreement The city of Dallas made with the Owners of the Stars and Mavs for the AA center it was criminal. The owners get all the revenues (including concerts and other events) pay no city taxes, get the stadium after 25 years and Dallas has to maintain it. Plus we paid each owner at the time like 4 million a piece just to look at and review the plans.

Edited November 21, 2007 by KingDL1

[KingDL1]

Here is one quick argument mostly dealing with Baseball, but has football thrown in there. If anything Baseball is better for a town.

NEGATIVE NUMBERS

Until recently, baseball teams didn’t worry much about strategy when they sought public money for stadiums. They talked about economic development, and assumed (correctly) that few would question them. This was especially true when teams sought subsidies from new territory they were hoping to enter. To begin with, owners argued, the construction of a stadium would be a plentiful source of jobs. Then, once it became operational, hundreds of thousands of fans would pour in, patronizing restaurants, bars and retailers in the area before and after games. As a result, a new stadium could serve as the linchpin to the revival of an entire community.

Business groups and other stadium backers still make this argument, but they are facing increasing skepticism. In the past decade, economist after economist has lambasted the idea that governments are making a prudent choice when they invest in stadiums. Their central point has been that most people have relatively fixed entertainment budgets. That means a dollar spent on baseball is a dollar not spent elsewhere in the local economy. Many academics are also skeptical that stadiums can revitalize neighborhoods. When a new stadium goes up in any city, says Villanova University’s Rick Eckstein, “you can see for yourself, even if you’re a lay person, that there’s not much going on there except on game days.”

Many elected officials who oppose subsidizing stadiums make ample use of the economic data. John Marty, a Minnesota state senator, argues that the issue should not be whether the subsidy produces some tangible benefit but whether the benefit is equal to the cost. “If I give you $150 million, it’s going to stimulate the economy, I guarantee it.” Marty says. “But $150 million doesn’t come out of thin air.”

The shift in sentiment has hit baseball harder than it has hit other sports. Despite pro football’s popularity, few teams ever argued seriously that an NFL stadium could spur an economic revitalization. With only eight regular-season home games per year, there simply weren’t enough game days to boost area businesses. Major League Baseball, with a home schedule in each stadium of 81 games per year, did make this argument. So baseball had more to lose if the economic reasoning came into question — and that is what is occurring now.

The result is that longstanding stadium foes — critics on the right who see public financing as an impetus for higher taxes and critics on the left who view it as welfare for billionaires — have more influence than they did in the past. The recent spats in Florida, Minnesota and D.C. have shown that political opposition, in conjunction with budgetary pressures, can turn the tide against public financing. “Local governments have enormous needs and those needs are increasing each year and they’re becoming more complicated and more expensive,” says Ian Yorty, Miami-Dade County’s tax collector and negotiator of the Marlins stadium deal that the legislature failed to ratify last year. “If you don’t have a direct mandate from the voters, it’s hard to find enough money to throw at a sports stadium.”

[GreenN'walinsVet]

There is hardly any revenue shared directly with the community due to crazy contracts and tax relief. All the articles I have read tried hard to show the ripple affect or trickle down affect, and they always pointed to it being a loss. But in Arlington we still have the prestige, without the costs. In fact Dallas will almost for sure benefit from Arlington paying for it. Who wants to stay in Arlington? This is win win for Dallas. I did and still do hate Lara Miller but I was definitely against spending Dallas money on this Jerry monument.

Did you ever read the agreement The city of Dallas made with the Owners of the Stars and Mavs for the AA center it was criminal. The owners get all the revenues (including concerts and other events) pay no city taxes, get the stadium after 25 years and Dallas has to maintain it. Plus we paid each owner at the time like 4 million a piece just to look at and review the plans.

While the AAC might be criminal, have you seen the devolpment around it. Even if it is costing money, the city is better off for it. Instead of an old train yard and salvage dump witch was an eyesore, they have a nice looking arena, the W hotel and ghostbar, the devolpment outside the AAC where channel 8 is located, and they are still building. Now I dont know for sure, but I would imagine tht property tax on those things isnt cheap, and while it might not make up for the lost money that was spent on the AAC, I would imagine that the just the fact that north Dallas along 35 is presentable now is well worth the investment.

Edited November 21, 2007 by GreenN'walinsVet

[KingDL1]

While the AAC might be criminal, have you seen the devolpment around it. Even if it is costing money, the city is better off for it. Instead of an old train yard and salvage dump witch was an eyesore, they have a nice looking arena, the W hotel and ghostbar, the devolpment outside the AAC where channel 8 is located, and they are still building. Now I dont know for sure, but I would imagine tht property tax on those things isnt cheap, and while it might not make up for the lost money that was spent on the AAC, I would imagine that the just the fact that north Dallas along 35 is presentable now is well worth the investment.

I sincerely doubt that you can give all the credit to AAC, the Uptown area was growing with a full head of steam before the project was even announced. Not that it didn't help some, but that area was well on its way to redevelopment before. But at the end of the day the argument was not against arena's anyway, they do tend to have more going on in them on a routine basis then baseball or football stadiums. During Hockey & Basketball season AAC is rolling almost nightly from September to June and it seems to be a better venue for many other events as well. I really thought the City of Dallas did not even try to make a smart deal on the AAC. Most large projects like the W in urban redevelopment get tax exemptions, waivers, or 10 - 20 years deferrals as incentives from the city.

[Rudy]

Yes Laura Miller dropped the ball on bringing the boys back, but from everything Ive seen, he didnt offer Dallas the same opportunities that he offered Arlington.

And on the 3 Super Bowls comment, I knew that would be brought up. But is that the only agrument you can make? How long ago were they? What has he done since except screw the team up.

[GreenMachine]

Did you enjoy those 3 Super Bowls? I bet you did.

I sure did, all from the comfort of my own recliner.

[Baby Arm!]

And on the 3 Super Bowls comment, I knew that would be brought up. But is that the only agrument you can make? How long ago were they? What has he done since except screw the team up.

Couldn't you say the same thing about Landry in 1989? How long had it been since he'd taken a team to the super bowl? What had he done since except screw the team up? The boys were 3-13 in Landry's last season. Be careful when using the 'what have you done for me lately' argument. If you do it justifies the firing of Landy.

Under Jones they've won 3 Super Bowls in 16 years, thats 1 more than Schramn/Landry did in 29 years. Thats a Super Bowl percentage of .187 for Jones but only .068 for Schramn/Landry. Even if you just count Super Bowl appearences (with 2 losing SB's under Landry), Jones still comes out ahead .187 to .172

[Eagle1855]

I sincerely doubt that you can give all the credit to AAC, the Uptown area was growing with a full head of steam before the project was even announced. Not that it didn't help some, but that area was well on its way to redevelopment before.

I agree that area was to be developed one way or the other... but the AAC being built certainly spurred along the development of Victory Park, which is a huge attraction for living in that area. Without the AAC, I doubt you get VP.