Lest We Forget...dallas Cowboys Wanted Tdodge 1st...

[PlummMeanGreen]

Mean Green Peanuts & Popcorn

Former Dallas Cowboys HFC Bill Parcells made it public to the media that he had wanted to hire Todd Dodge a couple or so years ago, but it was UNT who hired him instead, that is, it was us that hired one that America's Team wanted straight from the high school level.

A Texas HS Football Coach's Pedigree... Well, it seems the entire Big 12/University of Missouri Tiger's coaching staff all came down to Texas to get schooled by one Texas High School Football Coach & Twice National Coach of the Year--Todd Dodge. Dodge's success even caught the attention of the President of the United States of America who had the entire Dodge family in the White House last Spring.

Last night during the Mean Green Radio Network's interview with Larry Lacewell, a former coach who has been called one of the best evaluators of talent in existence said "you guys have a good one" (as he was referring to Todd Dodge) and as I recall, I don't recall that being a solicited comment by George Dunham in his interview with Larry Lacewell.

OK.............We're all know the problems and we all know what may (or may not) have to be done but it will be Todd Dodge who makes the final decisions on such things.

I know there is presently a feeding frenzy going on with some on GMG.com on this 1st year coaching staff; quite frankly, it would probably happen at any NCAA D1-A outpost in these days of micro-wave expectations, that is, expectation of instant success.

Those of us who choose to see the upside of Todd Dodge will never change the minds of you who choose to see the downside, but we all need to give him the same time most other UNT HFC's have most always gotten in Denton to install their programs.

I had previously used the term cancer to describe some players that I had received reliable word the last season or 2 who were (in fact) discipline problems during the DD Era. Perhaps not the best choice of word to use, but I think most of you still got my drift anyway. On the field team discipline problems can be seen when a team has personal foul penalties galore (like was the case in the previous era in Denton) and when you hear horror stories substantiated by a reliable campus official or 2 of off the field discipline problems, dicipline problems then take on a whole different light--not a good light, either. Anyone think off the field discipline problems don't translate to the rest of the team and even on the field of battle? Such players that produced those were the cancers I was posting about--not DD's entire recruiting classes still on campus (and I think many of you knew where I was coming from---and I know others just wanted to add more fuel to the fodder on this board's present feeding frenzy mentality.

Dickey (as I've posted numerous times even after the hiring of Dodge) did leave some fine talent behind at UNT, but it is still my opinion that he just didn't leave near enough of it behind coupled with the fact that our overall team speed is not (at this time) where it will be in due time. The first time I ever heard the phrase "you cannot coach speed" came from my own Texas HS football coach (and that was even back when helmets had face-guards on them, too, believe it or not).

IMHO..........the upside of Todd Dodge will have much to do with his higher profile recruiting. It also has much to do with all his highly successful (and media documented) football camps he's had going on for several years here in the North Texas Metroplex. Good football players make good coaches. Anyone remember back when Vince Lombardy left Green Bay for Washington how he suddenly became an average coach?

THE TEXAS HIGH SCHOOL CONNECTION.........I think that is just one of the positives he brings to this program that a "non-Texan" or outside the state of Texas college coordinator(s) we could have hired to be our HFC would have ever been able to bring to our most unique table at UNT. And how many agree that ours is a most unique table compared to the rest of the other Texas-based NCAA D1-A schools? Yet such outsider hires as we could have put on our payroll may have eventually taken the "under the radar" approach to recruiting because of their need to prevent showing their was very little local recruiting happening for our football program.

The Texas HS football coach's fraternity is one that can make you or break you as a Lone Star-based NCAA D1-A college football program (of which there are 10 such programs), or at least a D1-A football program that aspires lofty goals such as Top 25 rankings. And isn't UNT's such a football program that can ill afford to not have some semblance of rapport with many more top Texas HS footabll programs than probably in our entire history, especially come recruiting time?

We can no longer shoot SBC fish in the barrell to get to a bowl game because all the SBC fish have moved to a much broader NCAA D1-A ocean now. It was a good run when we could in the SBC's first 4 years, but this league's formative years are now gone forever. Troy U has a new stadium, a Top 25 win to debut that stadium and is the "speed merchant" toast of the Sun Belt Conference now. The real shame is that after a 4 year bowl run that we seem to be starting from scratch all over again in Denton--a role we've all been part of for decades it seems.

Edited November 16, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[flyeater]

Fact is, Parcells asked Dodge to interview for a position-coach job and then didn't hire him. Wasn't that Parcells couldn't hire him; he just didn't.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Fact is, Parcells asked Dodge to interview for a position-coach job and then didn't hire him. Wasn't that Parcells couldn't hire him; he just didn't.

That was not the way I recall how the story went, but what the hell, does it matter with the anti-Dodge (Mendoza feeding frenzy) faction anyway? They think we could hire better at UNT and hire those who would probably need a map on how to get from DFW to Houston. Folks, listen to those every once in awhile that actually saw some higher profile success around here that some of you seem to not think possible anymore. The coach we had during that era had a very, very nice Texas HS football coach's connection and he used it to our advantage. I won't go over some wins over schools who back in that era would have been bowl teams because of their bowl elgibility; but one such school was located in Knoxville, Tennessee FWIW.

Edited November 16, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[untbowler]

That was not the way I recall how the story went, but what the hell, does it matter with the anti-Dodge (Mendoza feeding frenzy) faction anyway? They think we could hire better at UNT and hire those who would probably need a map on how to get from DFW to Houston.

does not seem to phase the Mendoza huggers to call players cancers and worthless non-1A level or fans who do not bow down to Dodge and Mendoza not real fans.

This crap gets old off of both sides. Last night was a total team defeat but at least we should be able to get excited about next year if the staff has learned anything this year.

[PlummMeanGreen]

does not seem to phase the Mendoza huggers to call players cancers and worthless non-1A level or fans who do not bow down to Dodge and Mendoza not real fans.

This crap gets old off of both sides. Last night was a total team defeat but at least we should be able to get excited about next year if the staff has learned anything this year.

OK..............

untbowler, you are a spare (and probably a typical front-runner UNT fan who will be kissing Mendoza's arse first successful defensive team he puts out on the field).

Stick with bowling for dollars.

Edited November 16, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[untbowler]

untbowler, you are a spare (and probably a front-runner fan who will be kissing Mendoza's arse first successful defensive team he puts out on the field.

Stick with bowling for dollars.

wish I could still; bowl, damn bum knee. I'll kiss the ass of a winning team, but still have the right to question the staff like any fan is allowed, but call as you see don't try and sugar coat the crap that has been displayed this year. Even with a "unathletic" defense this team should not be giving up 50 pts a game. Last night was a pleasant surprise but when the chips were down the coaches failed, defensively, offensively, and special teams.

I am glad to be a spare if that is what you want, oh well. Would you like a hug??

[GoMeanGreen1999]

I am lost - who is asking or saying that Dodge shouldn't be here? I have read only a couple who have made a statement against Dodge, but maybe I am just not reading them all. I support Dodge 100% today as I did they day he was hired. If he chooses to keep the staff in tact, then I will support him 100%. Yes he needs time, and yes there are some major problems, but I just don't see people down on Dodge.

I do have one question though - when the defense plays like it does, it is the players not the coaches, yet when the offense does it's thing, it is most credited to Dodge and Ford - why the difference?

[newgreen]

Fact is, Parcells asked Dodge to interview for a position-coach job and then didn't hire him. Wasn't that Parcells couldn't hire him; he just didn't.

This is just stating the facts, and they are correct!! Parcells did encourage Dodge to accept the UNT job last year. Again "fact"!

[PlummMeanGreen]

wish I could still; bowl, damn bum knee. I'll kiss the ass of a winning team, but still have the right to question the staff like any fan is allowed, but call as you see don't try and sugar coat the crap that has been displayed this year. Even with a "unathletic" defense this team should not be giving up 50 pts a game. Last night was a pleasant surprise but when the chips were down the coaches failed, defensively, offensively, and special teams.

I am glad to be a spare if that is what you want, oh well. Would you like a hug??

Ok, sorry about the spare remark, and maybe you are perfect 300 game, but come on, untbowler (and others), all this questioning of the staff seems to have turned into a good old fashioned crucifiction--AND NOT LIKE THE ONE THAT HAD A SIMILAR ROMAN MOB MENTALITY PUT HIM TO DEATH (but didn't HE have a nice surprise 2 days later). Whoops, I can't talk religion or politics on this board, I forgot. (But we do seem to have more than our share of Doubting Jamario Thomases of late, though). (And for gosh sakes no, that not a put down on one off DD's best recruits who I think is still greatness albeit he's had terrifically bad luck with his hamstring).

This is about Mendoza moreso than Todd Dodge, but it has much to do with those who don't have confidence in Dodge's decision-making skills.

YET.............If by Year 4 or Year 5 (which is the usual number of years to give a new staff starting from scratch like I really feel this one is doing); yet, after Year 5 (DD's first above .500 year) this thing shows now signs of moving up the NCAA D1-A food chain, then I'll probably be right there with some of yall in the questioning (like I for darn sure was in DD's last 2 years after a 4 year bowl run), but for heaven's sake...............not now with this present staff; that is, before a 1'st season has even been completed, right?

Edited November 16, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[NCMeanGreen]

I do not understand the point to this post...what does this have to do with TD being at NT and the current situation?????

[untbowler]

I do not understand the point to this post...what does this have to do with TD being at NT and the current situation?????

TD has the backing of the King tuna and we should be backing him also (which 95% of the board does).

Also giving 9 years to DD to screw up UNT was a colossal mistake, that unfortunately we can not take back, although with the hatred DD stirred up has really helped in the love of TD who has a great public personality. DD hit a lucky streak with an infant conference and one great recruiting class, but did little else to build up UNT.

Don't mistake criticism for hatred.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Plumm...

There is no "anti-Dodge" faction. However, there is an very large "anti-loss" faction. A loss is a loss is a loss no matter who is standing on the sideline.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Also, quit the myth about Mizzou and Todd Dodge. Gary Pinkel was turning out NFL QBs in pro-style offenses while Dodge was still setting interception records at Texas. Pinkel is like any other coach, he takes bits from here and there are uses them in his own system. To suggest that Dodge schooled Pinkel in anything is laughble, given Pinkel's extensive track record as an offensive coordinator and head coach at the I-A level.

Please, just back away from the Dodge kool-aid for five seconds. Dodge is a good coach, but really....

Edited November 16, 2007 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[Green Lantern]

Plumm...

There is no "anti-Dodge" faction. However, there is an very large "anti-loss" faction. A loss is a loss is a loss no matter who is standing on the sideline.

Agreed. Also...When did this board become the NT cheerleaders? Any legitimate concern that is brought up on the board is immediately met with name calling, or accusing the poster of being a disgruntled former coach/player parent/DD lover ect.? Since when did asking questions about teams performance become taboo here?

This board is meant for football discussion. Not to act as a portal to attract recruits and cheer lead for the team exclusively. You can bring up positive and negative things about the team and program in general. There is nothing wrong with that.

[Pierow 2]

I have absolutely NO doubt in my mind that UNT will get better with Dodge at the helm. However, I think that it is becoming clear that if that is ever coming to fruition certain "changes" will have to be made. But Todd Dodge is a winner, has been a proven winner elsewhere, and will be a winner here.

[Arkstfan]

A couple juco's could make your defensive coordinator look better based on what I saw last night.

[JesseMartin]

MAN, you guys are anti-Dickey.

I'll agree, he was pretty abrasive, nearly a jerk (I wasn't the only student to see him on campus, wave and say, "Hey, Coach!" and have him just stare at me). BUT...under Dickey, we had twice as many bowl games as we had had in UNT HISTORY. True, some of the years we kicked ass and didn't get bowls were due to sports-politics and such, but regardless, 4 in a row is quite a bit for where we had been over time. I've criticized the game plans, lack of conditioning, and such as well, but you can't change the fact that, though many of the wins were against unimpressive teams, you'd expect a truly crappy program to lose a few conference and/or home games during the streaks we had in the Dickey era.

I DO see Dodge blowing that out of the water over time (if he sticks around once we see some great successes, which I hope he does), but I still feel like DD (can we only use those initials when talking about Daredevil from now on?) made a ton of progress here, and laid a decent foundation for us to truly get back into the D-IA scene.

And per a previous thread...I think if Scotty Hall was in this offense, he'd be putting up these kinds of numbers as well...at least by his senior year. Look at Meager, and how he changed under Dodge. Scott never had much chance to put up a super-sweet passing game, but was still a great leader, and I think that also had a lot to do with our bowl games, even when he was out and Andrew was in. Plus, we might have won that first New Orleans Bowl if Scott hadn't refused to go out and was basically playing on ONE LEG before getting surgery the next week.

Bottom line: It was Dickey's job to make us mediocre, and it's Dodge's job to take us to the next level. Anyone agree?

[TheTastyGreek]

Plumm...

There is no "anti-Dodge" faction. However, there is an very large "anti-loss" faction. A loss is a loss is a loss no matter who is standing on the sideline.

...but I was so ready to attack the anti-Dodge faction, too!

(Is it okay if we keep pretending like there's an anti-Dodge faction even though there isn't?)

[island eagle]

MAN, you guys are anti-Dickey.

I'll agree, he was pretty abrasive, nearly a jerk (I wasn't the only student to see him on campus, wave and say, "Hey, Coach!" and have him just stare at me). BUT...under Dickey, we had twice as many bowl games as we had had in UNT HISTORY. True, some of the years we kicked ass and didn't get bowls were due to sports-politics and such, but regardless, 4 in a row is quite a bit for where we had been over time. I've criticized the game plans, lack of conditioning, and such as well, but you can't change the fact that, though many of the wins were against unimpressive teams, you'd expect a truly crappy program to lose a few conference and/or home games during the streaks we had in the Dickey era.

I DO see Dodge blowing that out of the water over time (if he sticks around once we see some great successes, which I hope he does), but I still feel like DD (can we only use those initials when talking about Daredevil from now on?) made a ton of progress here, and laid a decent foundation for us to truly get back into the D-IA scene.

And per a previous thread...I think if Scotty Hall was in this offense, he'd be putting up these kinds of numbers as well...at least by his senior year. Look at Meager, and how he changed under Dodge. Scott never had much chance to put up a super-sweet passing game, but was still a great leader, and I think that also had a lot to do with our bowl games, even when he was out and Andrew was in. Plus, we might have won that first New Orleans Bowl if Scott hadn't refused to go out and was basically playing on ONE LEG before getting surgery the next week.

Bottom line: It was Dickey's job to make us mediocre, and it's Dodge's job to take us to the next level. Anyone agree?

Good post.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Plumm...

There is no "anti-Dodge" faction. However, there is an very large "anti-loss" faction. A loss is a loss is a loss no matter who is standing on the sideline.

We have common ground here, TFLF, because...............we are all anti-loss.

The other night gave most of us that empty pit in the stomach feeling and a disappointment moreso for all our guys (whether recruited by DD or TD). We all want these kids to have some success. Many of them will have success off the field of battle because they are moral, competitive and that will translate quite well to this thing we call...life.

I (and numerous others) only want others on this forum to be fair in the sequence of time given a new coach's regime to see just what they can do. As you know from (maybe) a couple of my posts DD did have 9 years and his first 4 were under .500 in the W/L department. We have no idea how long this is going to take with TDodge, but my gut feeling is we go over .500 in his Year 3 (DD's was Year 5). But I feel we all want this program to go up the NCAA D1-A rankings food chain this time around because if we don't do that, we have not progressed this football program and then it would merely look like the same one many of us have been following the last (almost 3) decades. If Boise State can have an annual Top 25 ranked football program, then why the heck can't UNT since I believe we would probably have better across the board resources than BSU (with our location being a positive one if we would only make it be such)?

I've never met Todd Dodge and (who knows) I may never meet him, but that kind of thing is not important to me anymore; that is, like it was when I was a Young Gun Alum BUT.................I really do like all that I am hearing about Coach Dodge of which some has not been made public, but (trust me) we will all be the beneficiaries of the foundation this man is building in all of our's 2'nd home town........ Denton, Texas, America.

GMG!

PS: Arkstfan (an attorney and well respected visitor poster to GMG.com) said a couple of good JUCO defensive lineman would really have made Coach Mendoza look good, too. And so to alter the lyrics of the great John Lennon.............

All I Am Saying Is...Give T'odge A Chance!

Edited November 17, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen