Our Bench Is Deeeeeeeep

chrisfisher · November 11, 2007

Our bench is filled with numerous extremely talented guards. The competition for playing time this season will be absolutely fierce! The students in our section remarked at how our freshman recruits looked very polished, as if they have played several years of D1A basketball. Josh White runs the floor very well, while Thompson, McCoy, and Dennis look great. I'd throw Willingham into this group based on his performance from the last game, but for some reason he didn't play tonight. Kendrick Hogans also looks like he has great potential and plays extremely aggressive defense. And of course, Ben Bell continues to play very solid. One word on Dennis... a poster on this board stated that Dennis could flat out score... he wasn't kidding. Dennis can shoot.

I'm trying not to get too excited given the level of competition we faced in our first 2 games, but I don't recall us looking this good in the past 2 seasons in our exhibition/season openers (also against soft competition). The truth is that tonight we could have put up as many points as we wanted - seriously - no exaggeration. Quincy only played 17 minutes and Wooden only played 11. I guess JJ thought 106 would do just fine. We will find out just how good we are come this Wednesday against the Big 12 opponent, OSU.

I hope EVERYONE makes it out to support the team for this HUGE game. Students care about wins against name opponents/conferences and will come out to more future games knowing we are competitive with Big 12 teams.

Edited November 11, 2007 by chrisfisher

MeanGreengdub · November 11, 2007

Tristan Thompson is a stud and Josh White and Hogans. What a great job of recruiting by Coach Jones. The gentleman behind me made a comment about how they don't play like freshmen at all and he was right on the money. This is going to be fun...

CMJ · November 11, 2007

Emmitt and I discussed this on the drive back to his place. He was big on Thompson. I was high on McCoy. And neither of them even matched Collin Dennis's 21. We have the potential to be special.

I loved raising of the banners too.

chrisfisher · November 11, 2007

One extremely important thing I forgot to mention: we shot 79% from the free throw line tonight.

NT80 · November 11, 2007

We beat Cameron last year in the opener by 39 and tonight by 53, so we are 14 points better per game than last season! :rolleyes:

Cooley · November 11, 2007

The team has a chance to be just as exciting as a Todd Dodge offense. Nice to see the fans give the team a nice applause at the end of the game. (They were entertained) Despite playing an inferior opponent, it was obvious to all that this team is talented.

I too was impressed with Mr Josh White, Adam McCoy & Kedrick Hogans. Tristan Thompson appeared to struggle in this offense; more than I anticipated. Keith Wooden & Q. Williams are the only sure fire starters that I can tell. JJ has the luxury of starting any combination of the others with just as much success. I can see where 5-6 different guys will lead the team in scoring on any given night.

For the hell of it, here's my revised starting 5

PG - Josh White

SG - Collin Dennis

SF - Adam McCoy

SF - Q

C - Wooden

White looks like a freshman of the year candidate

Dennis & McCoy (Newcomers of the year)

What could have been?

Roderick Flemings (Weatherford JC) scored 31 pts with 18 rebounds against Lon Morris Thursday Night. In about 4 games, he's averaging about 26 ppg.

2008-2009 Needs?

We really need to find an impact center for next year. Odufawa moves right into Quincy's 4 spot while the Knox kid further develops his game in a reserve role. Though badly needed next year, Justin Howerton is just not the starter we need him to be. With at least 2 ships remaining, we need a capable backup for White (pg) and a starting center.

Just my first game thoughts!

Go Mean Green!

Buford_Julep · November 11, 2007

Last Season Cameron defeated Tarleton State and East Central Oklahoma twice.

Sun Belt rival Denver began it's season Thursdaywith a 76-75 overtime win over East Central. Denver blew a 20-point lead with 11:52 left and was forced to overcome a four point deficit in the last 15 seconds of overtime to pull out the win.

It is great to see the Mean Green trash Div II teams instead of struggling for wins as had happened in so many previous seasons.

chrisfisher · November 11, 2007

Cooley - You echo my thoughts on Howerton. Early this week I posted that Howerton is getting better; however, he is simply not there yet, nor do I think he will be there before he graduates. Last night, I saw some of the old Howerton where he is completely unprepared (and surprised) for a pass under the basket or has the ball man handled right from his hands. Howerton got extended minutes (18) last night, and came away with 4 points. He is nearly 7 foot tall, and he should have dominated that floor last night, especially given the competition. If he can't put up big numbers against Cameron, it just isn't going to happen. He looks improved, but he'll have to work hard if he wants the starting role in 2008.

Cooley, I'm not sure if I agree with your analysis on Thompson. I noticed that he does start out a bit overly aggressive and slightly out-of-control, which I posted after the exhibition game. But once he settles down, he really knocks down the shots. In fact, Thompson, shot 60% (6-10) overall, and 50% from 3 point range (2-4). For 18 minutes of action, that doesn't sound too shabby to me.

Edited November 11, 2007 by chrisfisher

chrisfisher · November 11, 2007

One more thing. I didn't realize the Cameron played Arkansas-Little Rock last week. That might help us gauge our win a bit.... Ark-LR beat Cameron 78-59.....We basically put up 30 more points on Cameron and held them to less points. For whatever that is worth....

Green Lantern · November 11, 2007

One extremely important thing I forgot to mention: we shot 79% from the free throw line tonight.

Now that truly is something to be happy about. Keep that up guys!

Censored by Laurie · November 11, 2007

One more thing. I didn't realize the Cameron played Arkansas-Little Rock last week. That might help us gauge our win a bit.... Ark-LR beat Cameron 78-59.....We basically put up 30 more points on Cameron and held them to less points. For whatever that is worth....

Its dangerous to put too much stock in something like this...

I wasn't able to see the game...but the score indicates to me that JJ made sure that his players didn't "play down" to their compition like I've seen in past years...and thats a tough thing to do.

Cooley - I have a very hard time believing that Josh will knock Ben out of the starting role at the point...if for no other reason than Ben is a senior. Josh will see his minutes but there doesn't seem to be a need to rush him unless he is just clearly superior to Ben.

Any word on why Dez didn't play?

GrandGreen · November 11, 2007

NT has looked real good in what amounts to two exhibition games, the real test will be this week with the OSU and Indiana State games. Based on those hopefully not totally misleading games, all the new recruits look strong and will contribute. The only downer so far that I see is that Wooden did not report in basketball shape. I think JJ has used the first two games to look at the newcomers and second liners and try to establish a rotation. Bell, Wooden and Williams will start but the two wing starters have yet to be determined. The other starters could be Willingham, White, Dennis, Thompson or McCoy. Based on the two games, it would be difficult to pick the starter, a very good problem to have. JJ even had Bell playing the wing with White the point. My guess is he will start Willingham and Dennis just based on them having more experience.

To me, Thompson looks very good; not sure what more he could do to impress in the limited time so far. The big surprise to me is that White may be even better and Hogans will contribute in his first year. This is easily JJ's best high school recruiting class. McCoy has the capacity to be as good as Watson, he appears to have a comparable 3 point shoot and jumps even better than Watson.

Howerton does look much better to me, he seems to have added some quickness to his game. I don't expect Howerton to start this year or next but I think he gives NT a very useful big body that will be needed in a lot of games. Stewart has played very little so far, but looked very athletic as always. With NT's glut of guards, there is no time for him to play, but walk on Horne looks very good.

Censored by Laurie · November 11, 2007

NT has looked real good in what amounts to two exhibition games, the real test will be this week with the OSU and Indiana State games. Based on those hopefully not totally misleading games, all the new recruits look strong and will contribute. The only downer so far that I see is that Wooden did not report in basketball shape. I think JJ has used the first two games to look at the newcomers and second liners and try to establish a rotation. Bell, Wooden and Williams will start but the two wing starters have yet to be determined. The other starters could be Willingham, White, Dennis, Thompson or McCoy. Based on the two games, it would be difficult to pick the starter, a very good problem to have. JJ even had Bell playing the wing with White the point. My guess is he will start Willingham and Dennis just based on them having more experience.
To me, Thompson looks very good; not sure what more he could do to impress in the limited time so far. The big surprise to me is that White may be even better and Hogans will contribute in his first year. This is easily JJ's best high school recruiting class. McCoy has the capacity to be as good as Watson, he appears to have a comparable 3 point shoot and jumps even better than Watson.
Howerton does look much better to me, he seems to have added some quickness to his game. I don't expect Howerton to start this year or next but I think he gives NT a very useful big body that will be needed in a lot of games. Stewart has played very little so far, but looked very athletic as always. With NT's glut of guards, there is no time for him to play, but walk on Horne looks very good.

That would be a very small starting backcourt...6'3" 6'2" 6'0"...I think in both Dennis and Willingham you have that perfect combo guard...Jet Terry or Vinnie Johnson like. Starting both of them would almost be a waste. There is a such thing as having too many scorers on the floor at the same time...atleast in the first 35 minutes of a game. I havn't seen Hogans, but everyone seems impressed with him so far...so what about starting him at the 3 and making him a defensive specialist? OSU has three solid wings Obi Muonelo (6'5" 215), Terrel Harris (6'5" 195) and James Anderson (6'6" 195)...matching Hogans on on of these guys and forcing them to work for their buckets would be wise...Anderson dropped 29 against Prairie View and hes a true freshman. OSU won't get scoring from too many other spots but these 3 and their chubby charib of a point guard Eaton.

Harry · November 11, 2007

I tell you what Hogans impressed me tremendously last night. He is listed at 6-7 but plays like he is 6-9. How did this guy fly so under the radar??? I also agree with Grand that Josh White may be better than advertised. He is lightning quick and very creative. Also appears to be an outstanding free throw shooter. Harold Stewart looks like he is ready to be a major contributor and I just love the energy he brings to the floor. I'll say right now this is a more talented team than we had last year. Michael Sturns would get very little playing time with this cast and as much as I liked Calvin Washington I think McCoy and Dennis will fill that shooting role fine and they are more athletic.

I also see a LOT of potential in Tristan Thompson. He has a nice knack for the ball and is so multipurpose, he can do it all. He may be a monster in a couple of years if he can put on more size and he has a frame to do so.

Howerton is just a very marginal player. He has added little size and was getting pushed around by the Cameron wide guy underneath.

Great game atmosphere, I think we may have the most entertaining Scrappy I can remember (this guy can dance and is hilarious with the refs..) and the team appears very unselfish and is looking to pass and distribute the ball first. Even the walk-ons appear to be high caliber than in the past.

I did not see Willingham last night...did I just miss him or was he out?

My guess for how the starting lineup will play out,

point: White

sg: Bell/Dennis

sf: McCoy or Stewart

pf: Q

c: Wooden

As the season progresses however watch out for Hogans and Thompson...these guys both have tremendous upside!

Last thought: if White turns out to be as good as we are hoping, this program could explode. Having a quality point for four years would allow Johnny to focus his attention on size, which as Cooley pointed out will be a big issue next year when we lose Q and Wooden. Howerton isn't the answer.

greenminer · November 11, 2007

I"m not trying to ruffle any feathers here or attack anyone, but is anyone else bothered by Howerton and how he can be temperamental at times? I don't know if last year's run has given him an ego, but there were times when I thought his effort faultered. He even gave an obvious shove on a jump ball called between him and a Cameron player.

Other than that, this team is going to be fun to watch.

mwynn05 · November 11, 2007

I"m not trying to ruffle any feathers here or attack anyone, but is anyone else bothered by Howerton and how he can be temperamental at times? I don't know if last year's run has given him an ego, but there were times when I thought his effort faultered. He even gave an obvious shove on a jump ball called between him and a Cameron player.
Other than that, this team is going to be fun to watch.

If Cameron can beat Tarleton this year then that huge margin would show something...Tarleton beat Baylor and lost to A&M by 9

BleedGreen · November 11, 2007

I take full credit for my comment that Collin Dennis can flat out shoot...

I am so happy he is here. He will fill K.D. and CWat's shoes just fine.

I am also thrilled witih McCoy and Tristan Thompson. Hats off to Coach Jones and his staff or an EXCELLENT recrutiing job on those two and the boys from Louisiana.

BleedGreen · November 11, 2007

Its dangerous to put too much stock in something like this...
I wasn't able to see the game...but the score indicates to me that JJ made sure that his players didn't "play down" to their compition like I've seen in past years...and thats a tough thing to do.
Cooley - I have a very hard time believing that Josh will knock Ben out of the starting role at the point...if for no other reason than Ben is a senior. Josh will see his minutes but there doesn't seem to be a need to rush him unless he is just clearly superior to Ben.
Any word on why Dez didn't play?

Dez will play against OSU. I agree - there's no way White replaces Bell. We are going to need both against OSU's Byron Eaton and to rotate on him.

MCMLXXX · November 11, 2007

as I liked Calvin Washington I think McCoy and Dennis will fill that shooting role fine and they are more athletic.

Are you refering to this guy?

http://www.meangreensports.com/ViewArticle...p;Q_SEASON=2006

How quickly we forget.

chrisfisher · November 11, 2007

Dez will play against OSU. I agree - there's no way White replaces Bell. We are going to need both against OSU's Byron Eaton and to rotate on him.

I found it interesting that JJ started White and Bell last night. I wonder if that is sampling of things to come. I always assumed it would be either Bell or White, with White as back up. That would really make matters/playing time really complicated for the other guards if both PGs started....

chrisfisher · November 11, 2007

BTW, Dez was MIA last night. I already emailed Vito to see what he knows. He said that he wouldn't know anything until early next week. I really hope that everything is OK with Dez.

Cooley · November 11, 2007

JJ stated in the post game interview that Dez was banged up a little from the previous game. He could have played last night if they needed him. He is good to go against OSU.

As for as Thompson, no poster was as high on him as I was/am. I thought he was the jewel in this class. Having seen him in the HS state tournament, he literally took over by having one of the most dominating performances I had ever seen. My comments were not meant to knock him at all. I just saw a tentative game (unlike his 38 point game in Austin)

It is only because Ben Bell is a senior that he will get the nod over the freshman White. JJ should be arrested for stealing this kid!

Harry · November 11, 2007

White also has outstanding bloodlines - his brother Quannas was a starter for OU...

White a perfect fit

OU guard Quannas White takes off with a loose ball in a March 2 road game against Colorado. NORMAN (AP) -- Quannas White began the year as just one of six new players on Oklahoma's roster. Now he's an indispensable part of a team headed to the Final Four.

As point guard, White has blended perfectly into the mix. He makes sure the right people get the ball, is a strong defender, protects the ball and can score when needed.

"Quannas just made everybody fit," coach Kelvin Sampson said.

Sampson didn't expect to need a point guard this year. But when he dismissed J.R. Raymond late last season for breaking team rules, he suddenly had a hole to fill.

The coaches had known about White, who was a high school teammate of Oklahoma guard Hollis Price. They liked his size (6-foot-1, 190 pounds) and the toughness he showed at Midland Community College in Texas. Once Raymond was let go, signing White became a priority.

White said he felt comfortable right away at Oklahoma, in part because many of the sets his junior college team used were nearly identical to those used by OU.

"It was very easy for me to pick 'em up. It was very comfortable," he said.

That was important, because of all the new players on hand. Price and forward Aaron McGhee were the only returning starters. In addition to White, the newcomers were guards Ebi Ere, Jason Detrick and Blake Johnston, and frontcourt players Jabahri Brown and Jozsef Szendrei.

White has started 32 of 35 games for the Sooners (31-4), who play Indiana in the national semifinals Saturday night in Atlanta. He averages 7.9 points, 4.8 assists and just 1.9 turnovers per game. He is shooting 41 percent from 3-point range, with a season high of 20 points in a game against Texas.

In four NCAA tournament games, he has 25 assists and only seven turnovers.

"Quannas has just gotten better and better and better," Sampson said.

"The thing I liked about him when he came in here is he could defend the ball. He was good at defending dribble penetration."

That has shown up in some big games. In the championship of the Big 12 tournament, Kansas guard Kirk Hinrich went 0-for-10 and Oklahoma won the game. White's defense in the West Regional title game last weekend helped result in Missouri's Clarence Gilbert going 1-for-16.

Sampson likes to say that a good point guard should be like a good official -- you know he's out there, but you really don't notice him. White has done that.

Now a team picked to finish fourth in its conference is one of the last four teams alive in the NCAA tournament.

"When I came on my visit and we played a couple pickup games, I saw how good the team was," White said. "I really believed this is a team that can make history, that can do it." If it happens, give White another assist.

GrandGreen · November 12, 2007

BTW, Dez was MIA last night. I already emailed Vito to see what he knows. He said that he wouldn't know anything until early next week. I really hope that everything is OK with Dez.

Dez was injured in exhibition game, could have played if necessary.

November 12, 2007

Let me rain on the Josh White parade a little bit.

But first the positives. White is in the Weasel Johnson class in quickness. Johnson was likely the flashiest guard that we've ever had. He is lightning out there and should give opposing defenses fits. He has excellent ball control and is better than average offensively, especially for a point guard. He may eventually be all-conference in a league of good guards.

Now for the negatives. White had ZERO assists against Cameron. That seems unconscionable for a point guard. Josh Howerton had three in ten less minutes. He also had no steals. I expected him to excel in both and he may with a little more experience. His only hustle stat was one rebound and that was offset by a turnover.