Fire Mendoza...now!

FirefightnRick · November 11, 2007

I'm not calling for anyone to be fired today. However, this cannot be whitewashed. Delaware held Navy to 22 points less than we did. BAll State, held them to 43 points less.
Our defense has been embarrassing all year. Today was just the low point. This has to be addressed at some point.

Delware, who held Navy to 346 yards rushing in their win over the Midshipmen back on October 27th, lost to Richmond tonight to go 5-2 in conference. They more than likely won't even win their own half(south) of the CAA conference and will have to hope for an outright bid to the 1-AA playoffs.

Rick

eulesseagle · November 11, 2007

Sun Belt football has been evolving! More teams are running the spread and putting up more points than what we saw under the Coach Dickey era on run, run, run and run. Naturally you put up less points on a run oriented Dickey style offense and that is what UNT fans have seen over the last ump-teen years in the Southland, Big West and Sun Belt conferences.

Everyone is going to have to face the fact that our defensive woes are not the fault of the Defensive Cordinator but the fault of the quality of recruits under the Coach Dickey Era. Coach Dodge stated when he accepted the coaching position and was asked about his high school attack that he was implementing he said it was a "plan." Not a high school plan, not a college plan and not a pro plan.....just a plan. So some of you who still believe Coach Dodge is running a high school offense and defense may want to make an appointment with coach's Dodge and Mendoza and tell them how you can make his plan work better with all your years of "couch potatoe armchair QB" experience. You can have the best and most popular schemes that other successful school have but IF, and it is a BIG IF, you do not have the players then it ain't goin' ta work. So this fire Coach Mendoza talk is a bunch of crap. UNT needs better defensive players. That is the bottom line. UNT is in the Sun Belt not the BCS and unfortunately takes a bit more to recruit the players you need to play in a conference where you have D-1AA conferences ranked higher than the Sun Belt. Generally, it takes longer to rebuild a "Mid-Major" program than, just reloading talent in a BCS program like Ohio State, Michigan, Texas and the like.

Navy has be BEST #1 rushing attack in the nation and UNT's defense is one of the worst.

Give our coaching staff time to recruit what we need instead of posting knee jerk reactions that are not well thought out and are sophmoric in nature.

I thought that this game was going to be high scoring and believed we would see 90 points on the scoreboard after the 4th Quarter and whoever had the ball last would win.

No reasonable person hung effagies of Coach Mendoza after Oklahoma or Arkansas because we expected to get spanked.

Now UNT was faced with the "TRIPLE OPTION" that we have not seen in 30 or 40 years and had two weeks to prepare for a team that runs the option to perfection on some of the best teams in the nation. Even when UNT faced the "triple option" in the past we got our "clocks cleaned." I only say that because there are probably only a few who post on this board who have actually watched UNT against triple option teams......but then we were not throwing 40 -50 times a game in a "spead eagle" ( whoever coined that phrase .... thanks ) offense.

FWIW, I am excited to see the progress of the Coach Dodge Era and get more excited to see the recruits (offense and defense) that he is bringing to UNT.

JayDub, in all honesty you will have to be a little patient with the defensive players that Coach's Dodge and Mendoza inherited from the Coach Dickey Era.

Edited November 11, 2007 by eulesseagle

UNTSIG · November 11, 2007

i hope some of you are kidding... i thought that our standards were getting higher around here?? if you give up over 60 points, 3 times... the d coordinator has to be fired. do not make excuses for this. our d is horrible and someone has to be responsible for that. Mendoza has to go.

UNTflyer · November 11, 2007

I always look for the lemonade....

At least I didn't get yelled at too often to "SIT DOWN!" when Navy had a 3rd down. <_<

untbowler · November 11, 2007

oncew again it amazes me the standards that are being set for this program. Lets give the staff a pass because well they have crappy players, that is asuch BS crap. How is that the offense has picked up the new scheme with non-TD players, yet the defense continues to regress with many returners even though the coaching staff has not utilized many of the previous LWs. It is a cop-out to lay everything at the players feet in an effort to con't to blame DD.

Mendoza fails to adjust and has cost the team at least 3 games this year in which they had a double digit lead. The lone exceptions were ULM and Troy.

No way giving up 60+ points a game is acceptable, I do not care if there are 11 Fr. playing.

Just embarassing the standards that have been set by some alumni.

adman · November 11, 2007

I'm not sure anyone can say we didn't make any defensive adjustments at the half. If you look at the score Navy scored 45 points in the first half. (35 in the second qtr.) We came out in the third qtr and held Navy to 20 points and 9 in the 4th (2 of which were a safety.) No adjustments would mean to me that Navy would have scored MORE than 45 points in the second half.

untStein · November 11, 2007

I always look for the lemonade....
At least I didn't get yelled at too often to "SIT DOWN!" when Navy had a 3rd down.

I hear you. There was a "fan" behind me that got mad every time I stood up to cheer. That aside, it's my opinion that you just shouldn't give up 70+ points against a team that you know is going to run the ball 90+ % of the time. Our D needs to improve drastically and if removing Mendoza will do that, then I'm for it.

Edited November 11, 2007 by untStein

SilverEagle · November 11, 2007

Let me address the defenders of our defense....or the person in charge of it.

This is the ninth game of the season and our defense doesn't seem to be performing (or adjusting) any better than in the first. In our first game we were facing a nationally ranked opponent. In our ninth game, we were not.....not even close.

Everyone in the stadium that has any basic knowledge of football knew that only three players were going to get the ball....the FB, the QB....and the pitch man. On the rare occasion that they were going to pass they ALWAYS threw to one player....#89. As one of the all-conference LB's who played under Corky Nelson said (as he was passing in front of me...and was shaking his head in dismay) "QB, FB, pitch-man.....how hard can that be?"

We have bascially the same group of defensive players that we had last year....that performed significantly better than this year. When we did arrive at the line of scrimmage to meet the pitch man, and make contact with him, our defense was faced the daunting task of bring down RB's who were a bruising 5'8" X 164, 5'9" X186 & (most dreaded of all) #7 who was 5'6"X 168!!!! Now, all of them were fast and quick, but they almost always gained a yard or two AFTER CONTACT!

Has Brandon Monroe lost a step, or is injured to the point that he cannot play? As I recall from the assessments about him when he was a freshman, besides being big (6-2 X 230) he was also very fast. Why is he sitting on the bench and only playing with the special teams? Did he not say "yessir" enough times during spring and fall practice? Why isn't Steve Warren out there? That guy used to bring a big hit with him when he arrived at the point of contact.

Who would we have hired instead of our current DC? Well, for one thing, we should have retained Bliel. Failing that, just about any up and coming (from a D-II or 1-AA school) DC would have been happy to come to work here, and probably do a significantly better job than what has been done thus far. Heck, for that matter, we should have put Chuck Peterson in total charge of the defense....for this game anyway. For years he used to be the OC for Air Force.......who ran the wishbone. If ANYONE could have gotten our defense ready for the triple option, it could have been him.

I have watched North Texas play for at least three decades and this is absolutely the worst defensive performance (on a season) that I have ever seen.

And the irony of this is that "Mean Green" was coined in honor of our (then) ferocious defense.

I Miss Booger Kennedy · November 11, 2007

Last night was the final straw. Mendoza should be gone.

Green Lantern · November 11, 2007

Let me address the defenders of our defense....or the person in charge of it.
This is the ninth game of the season and our defense doesn't seem to be performing (or adjusting) any better than in the first. In our first game we were facing a nationally ranked opponent. In our ninth game, we were not.....not even close.
Everyone in the stadium that has any basic knowledge of football knew that only three players were going to get the ball....the FB, the QB....and the pitch man. On the rare occasion that they were going to pass they ALWAYS threw to one player....#89. As one of the all-conference LB's who played under Corky Nelson said (as he was passing in front of me...and was shaking his head in dismay) "QB, FB, pitch-man.....how hard can that be?"
We have bascially the same group of defensive players that we had last year....that performed significantly better than this year. When we did arrive at the line of scrimmage to meet the pitch man, and make contact with him, our defense was faced the daunting task of bring down RB's who were a bruising 5'8" X 164, 5'9" X186 & (most dreaded of all) #7 who was 5'6"X 168!!!! Now, all of them were fast and quick, but they almost always gained a yard or two AFTER CONTACT!
Has Brandon Monroe lost a step, or is injured to the point that he cannot play? As I recall from the assessments about him when he was a freshman, besides being big (6-2 X 230) he was also very fast. Why is he sitting on the bench and only playing with the special teams? Did he not say "yessir" enough times during spring and fall practice? Why isn't Steve Warren out there? That guy used to bring a big hit with him when he arrived at the point of contact.
Who would we have hired instead of our current DC? Well, for one thing, we should have retained Bliel. Failing that, just about any up and coming (from a D-II or 1-AA school) DC would have been happy to come to work here, and probably do a significantly better job than what has been done thus far. Heck, for that matter, we should have put Chuck Peterson in total charge of the defense....for this game anyway. For years he used to be the OC for Air Force.......who ran the wishbone. If ANYONE could have gotten our defense ready for the triple option, it could have been him.
I have watched North Texas play for at least three decades and this is absolutely the worst defensive performance (on a season) that I have ever seen.
And the irony of this is that "Mean Green" was coined in honor of our (then) ferocious defense.

Thank you for putting the frustration into words. I didn't feel like typing out a long post breaking down all of the issues.

Well put Silver.

yyz28 · November 11, 2007

I'm shocked there is still people defending this Defensive coaching staff... I'm blown away.

...Navy scored AT WILL against us. We stopped them from scoring touchdowns on only TWO drives and one of them earned them a field goal. The other had their backup QB at the helm. This defensive performance was the worst I have ever seen, at any level, EVER.

The argument about what this team's problem is should now officially be over. Mendoza needs to be fired, not next week, not after lunch, but NOW! ...the rest of the coaching staff needs to be evaluated. Anyone responsible for coaching tackling obviouslly needs to go bye-bye.

With even a weak (not non existant) defense we would have won this game, would have beat SMU, FAU and probably won a couple of other games, and this season would be very different. No, the offense hasn't been perfect, but you can't see a performance like they put on last night and come away with ANY other conclusion than "MAJOR improvements are being made on the Offensive side of the ball week after week".

...with last night's offense and a college level defensive scheme with even minimal talent, we run the Sunbelt table again, and probably have a shot at some quality OCC wins...

LIKE SAY, FOR EXAMPLE... NAVY!!!!!!!!

I hope for the sake of the players and their obvious desire to win, that Coach Dodge does the right thing. Firing a friend sucks (been there, done that...), but that's part of the risk in hiring a friend.

mad dog · November 11, 2007

I wanted to make sure I slept on this topic, because my sports opinions are white hot on this one. Coming out of last night, my thought was "I don't know how Ron Mendoza has a job on Monday." That was the singular worst defensive performance I have ever seen, and that includes the shellackings we have received at the hands of Texas, OU, and LSU.

Then I had some second thoughts, specifically about firing someone when you think about how that affects their family, too. I'm sure he is a good guy, and I hate seeing things happen to people who obviously try hard.

But then the third thoughts came.

* When your quarterback throws eight touchdown passes, and you're over there telling him you need two more to get back in the game, that is unacceptable.

* When you give up a third of a mile on the ground in one game, that is unacceptable.

* When you give up a third of a mile on the ground, and you know that is all the other team does, that is REALLY unacceptable.

* When you give up a third of a mile on the ground, you know that's all the other team does, and you've had two full weeks to prepare for it, that is insultingly unacceptable.

We are not talking about giving up a few touchdowns late in a close game. We're talking getting dominated defensively to the point where it might have been a good idea to just onside kick it every time. And this is not an isolated incident. Shoot. This is a game in and game out pattern. We had one game against Louisiana Monroe where the defense had a pulse. And, not surprisingly, we won.

I don't see Ron Mendoza's release as a knee jerk reaction at this point. Knee jerk would have been after the debacle against OU. Or against the blown lead at SMU. Or the fourth quarter meltdowns against FAU and Middle Tennessee. Or the demolition job at Arkansas. Or the 300 yards given up on the ground to Lafayette. Or the six touchdown, 500 yard performance by Troy even after giving up seven turnovers.

With essentially the same personnel, we gave up 25 points per game last year. So far this season, we're giving up 50 per game (if it was 25, that translates into 3 additional wins). The only substantive change was the coaching staff. I'd love to wait for this thing to turn around, but I have seen nothing to this point which would lead me to believe this is possible. It might happen next week. But right now, with the current data available to me, I can't defend what's happened at all.

TIgreen01 · November 11, 2007

I feel bad for the D. Staff and players. The players looked lost last night. Then on the sidelines the coaches just had looks of bewilderment in their eyes when talking to the players between series. Just from that interaction (and the fact that we were just missing assignments all over the field), I don't think that this loss can be pinned on a lack of talent. It looked like the players were just tuning the defensive coaches out on the sidelines. If there are NOT changes to this staff, I wonder how Mendoza and his staff are going to get these players back---b/c it's obvious that they are not buying the current plan.

Edited November 11, 2007 by TIgreen01

SilverEagle · November 11, 2007

I feel bad for the D. Staff and players. The players looked lost last night. Then on the sidelines the coaches just had looks of bewilderment in their eyes when talking to the players between series. Just from that interaction (and the fact that we were just missing assignments all over the field), I don't think that this loss can be pinned on a lack of talent. It looked like the players were just tuning the defensive coaches out on the sidelines. I am not for firing anybody after this season, but I wonder how Mendoza and his staff are going to get these players back---b/c it's obvious that they are not buying the current plan.

Buying it? They're not even renting it.

TIgreen01 · November 11, 2007

Buying it? They're not even renting it.

:lol:

You're right. I saw the 3 players (Vizza, Fitz, and Chapman) who were interviewed for the post game show as they were walking out of the lockerroom on their way to the interview. The looks on their faces can be summarized as:

Vizza and Fitz -- just a look of hopeless shock

Chapman -- PISSED OFF.

GoMeanGreen1999 · November 11, 2007

I wanted to make sure I slept on this topic, because my sports opinions are white hot on this one. Coming out of last night, my thought was "I don't know how Ron Mendoza has a job on Monday." That was the singular worst defensive performance I have ever seen, and that includes the shellackings we have received at the hands of Texas, OU, and LSU.
Then I had some second thoughts, specifically about firing someone when you think about how that affects their family, too. I'm sure he is a good guy, and I hate seeing things happen to people who obviously try hard.
But then the third thoughts came.
* When your quarterback throws eight touchdown passes, and you're over there telling him you need two more to get back in the game, that is unacceptable.
* When you give up a third of a mile on the ground in one game, that is unacceptable.
* When you give up a third of a mile on the ground, and you know that is all the other team does, that is REALLY unacceptable.
* When you give up a third of a mile on the ground, you know that's all the other team does, and you've had two full weeks to prepare for it, that is insultingly unacceptable.
We are not talking about giving up a few touchdowns late in a close game. We're talking getting dominated defensively to the point where it might have been a good idea to just onside kick it every time. And this is not an isolated incident. Shoot. This is a game in and game out pattern. We had one game against Louisiana Monroe where the defense had a pulse. And, not surprisingly, we won.
I don't see Ron Mendoza's release as a knee jerk reaction at this point. Knee jerk would have been after the debacle against OU. Or against the blown lead at SMU. Or the fourth quarter meltdowns against FAU and Middle Tennessee. Or the demolition job at Arkansas. Or the 300 yards given up on the ground to Lafayette. Or the six touchdown, 500 yard performance by Troy even after giving up seven turnovers.
With essentially the same personnel, we gave up 25 points per game last year. So far this season, we're giving up 50 per game (if it was 25, that translates into 3 additional wins). The only substantive change was the coaching staff. I'd love to wait for this thing to turn around, but I have seen nothing to this point which would lead me to believe this is possible. It might happen next week. But right now, with the current data available to me, I can't defend what's happened at all.

Excellent post. You and SilverEagle talking? He had a great post also in this thread. Yet there will be some on here that just keep defending the coaches.

ADLER · November 11, 2007

So we fire Mendoza and replace him with who? You seem to know which defensive schemes work, so the solution should be easy. Hire a coach with a proven college scheme. Please shed some light on this coach in the college ranks.

I am not calling for anyone's termination, but there is someone that may be available at the end of this season if there were a vacancy.

He is respected by his peers and very popular with the players.

SilverEagle · November 11, 2007

Excellent post. You and SilverEagle talking? He had a great post also in this thread. Yet there will be some on here that just keep defending the coaches.

Oh yes! We also call each other before each game to talk about what we're going to wear........ :rolleyes: ........

mad dog · November 11, 2007

Oh yes! We also call each other before each game to talk about what we're going to wear........ ........

:lol:

Yeah... i think the conversation went something like

"Hey, what are you wearing to the game?"

"Green."

"Okay good. Me too."

Got5onIt · November 11, 2007

Yeah... i think the conversation went something like
"Hey, what are you wearing to the game?"
"Green."
"Okay good. Me too."

So you two agreed on the pink underwear? :blink: :lol:

FirefightnRick · November 11, 2007

and it is a BIG IF, you do not have the players then it ain't goin' ta work.

What a sickening slap to Aaron Weathers, Blake Burruss, Jeremy Chapman, Jo Miller, Montey Stevenson's etc... faces. Evidently Coaches Dodge and Ford didn't need a second recruiting class or two for their offense to WORK?

Countless defensive lettermen alumni sit near our section. Members of some of our better defenses we have ever had in the past and all of them, ALL OF THEM

have been shaking their heads at what they have seen all sesaon scheme wise and I have yet to hear any concerns to be about talent level on this team. Sure, if you had a team chocked full of Brandon Kennedy's, Jonas Buckles, Craig Jones and Brad Kassels you would be doing pretty good. But then you would have a top 10 defense which no one is asking or expecting from this group. 70th or 80th would have sufficed. Just a slight drop off from last year would have been acceptable, would have been ok. Not falling off the face of the earth?

Sickening.

God Bless the Mean Green defense. We know what you guys are made of and what your capable of. We know......

Rick

Edited November 11, 2007 by FirefightnRick

greenminer · November 11, 2007

Sun Belt football has been evolving! More teams are running the spread and putting up more points than what we saw under the Coach Dickey era on run, run, run and run. Naturally you put up less points on a run oriented Dickey style offense and that is what UNT fans have seen over the last ump-teen years in the Southland, Big West and Sun Belt conferences.
Everyone is going to have to face the fact that our defensive woes are not the fault of the Defensive Cordinator but the fault of the quality of recruits under the Coach Dickey Era. Coach Dodge stated when he accepted the coaching position and was asked about his high school attack that he was implementing he said it was a "plan." Not a high school plan, not a college plan and not a pro plan.....just a plan. So some of you who still believe Coach Dodge is running a high school offense and defense may want to make an appointment with coach's Dodge and Mendoza and tell them how you can make his plan work better with all your years of "couch potatoe armchair QB" experience. You can have the best and most popular schemes that other successful school have but IF, and it is a BIG IF, you do not have the players then it ain't goin' ta work. So this fire Coach Mendoza talk is a bunch of crap. UNT needs better defensive players. That is the bottom line. UNT is in the Sun Belt not the BCS and unfortunately takes a bit more to recruit the players you need to play in a conference where you have D-1AA conferences ranked higher than the Sun Belt. Generally, it takes longer to rebuild a "Mid-Major" program than, just reloading talent in a BCS program like Ohio State, Michigan, Texas and the like.
Navy has be BEST #1 rushing attack in the nation and UNT's defense is one of the worst.
Give our coaching staff time to recruit what we need instead of posting knee jerk reactions that are not well thought out and are sophmoric in nature.
I thought that this game was going to be high scoring and believed we would see 90 points on the scoreboard after the 4th Quarter and whoever had the ball last would win.
No reasonable person hung effagies of Coach Mendoza after Oklahoma or Arkansas because we expected to get spanked.
Now UNT was faced with the "TRIPLE OPTION" that we have not seen in 30 or 40 years and had two weeks to prepare for a team that runs the option to perfection on some of the best teams in the nation. Even when UNT faced the "triple option" in the past we got our "clocks cleaned." I only say that because there are probably only a few who post on this board who have actually watched UNT against triple option teams......but then we were not throwing 40 -50 times a game in a "spead eagle" ( whoever coined that phrase .... thanks ) offense.
FWIW, I am excited to see the progress of the Coach Dodge Era and get more excited to see the recruits (offense and defense) that he is bringing to UNT.
JayDub, in all honesty you will have to be a little patient with the defensive players that Coach's Dodge and Mendoza inherited from the Coach Dickey Era.

You've become one of my favorite posters, but there are some flaws in this post my friend. Rick just touched on it. Illuvious made a great post.

I think it's time for some of us to distinguish personal appreciation and professional appreciation. This guy is probably working his tail off, and I am thankful for his efforts. But this is about results (Phil Bennett quote). Where are the results? Forget about all the scheming that he hasn't displayed! We haven't even seen this defense get better at his own package, even after fall, spring practices, and 9+ weeks into the season.

I'm loyal to UNT above all. We'll move on. We're bigger than Dodge, bigger than Mendoza. Let's hope some changes are made. If Mendoza attends a hundred camps this offseason and gets his knowledge up to par, fine! Whatever the case, we should expect better than this.

Green Lantern · November 11, 2007

What a sickening slap to Aaron Weathers, Blake Burruss, Jeremy Chapman, Jo Miller, Montey Stevenson's etc... faces. Evidently Coaches Dodge and Ford didn't need a second recruiting class or two for their offense to WORK?
Countless defensive lettermen alumni sit near our section. Members of some of our better defenses we have ever had in the past and all of them, ALL OF THEM
have been shaking their heads at what they have seen all sesaon scheme wise and I have yet to hear any concerns to be about talent level on this team. Sure, if you had a team chocked full of Brandon Kennedy's, Jonas Buckles, Craig Jones and Brad Kassels you would be doing pretty good. But then you would have a top 10 defense which no one is asking or expecting from this group. 70th or 80th would have sufficed. Just a slight drop off from last year would have been acceptable, would have been ok. Not falling off the face of the earth?
Sickening.
God Bless the Mean Green defense. We know what you guys are made of and what your capable of. We know......
Rick

Good post Rick. We know what these guys are capable of. Because of scheme, we are not getting to see that on the field, and that is truly a shame. There is no DD monster that didn't leave any talent on the defensive side of the ball. There is talent there. It's just not being used effectively.

ADLER · November 11, 2007

I am not calling for anyone's termination, but there is someone that may be available at the end of this season if there were a vacancy.
He is respected by his peers and very popular with the players.

Oh, and I forgot to mention...his production and player relationships just might make Coach Dodge's job a little easier.

Green Mean · November 11, 2007

It is certainly embarassing giving up 74 points to Navy and especially that at home when this game meant a little more than others since it was a team everyone knows that was willing to come to Fouts and etc. At this time I am not giving all the blame to Mendoza and all the defensive players. I am making the whole coaching staff accountable with Dodge getting the most of it. As the HEAD COACH, you would think he would tell Mendoza what to do or not to do with the defense as far as adjustments since it was and has been absolutely awful. I mean heck he could have just taken over and said screw it, I will handle this defense the rest of the night. Something could have been done.....that is the whole point of coaching is adjustments and changing up schemes that dont work in a given game. It seems the learning curve for Mendoza was exponential and this isnt to say he doesnt have any talent and one day wouldnt become a pretty good DC in the college level, but as of right now he is a baby among boys and thats not what NT FB needs right now.

Now....am I willing to give him til the end of the year? Yes. Am I willing to give him another season? Yes. I think all coaches deserve atleast two years to mold their defense the way they envision it. As frustrating as it is to see I didnt have any expectations this season as I just thought we will go 0-12....anything better than that was successful in my opinion. I think it has been shown that this years recruiting class needs to revolve around defense and getting speed. If for some reason it becomes more offense based again then I think it will be time to question TD. I really feel bad for GV and the rest of the offense as they scored 62 points and still lost by 12. That is truly a feeling of dejectedness.

As far as Bennet being a possible candidate to replace Mendoza in the future......I would be all for that since I have always been a big fan of PB but I dont think he would come here since he would be under TD and the fact that I think he would be able to get a better job for a better program.