What Race Card?

[Cooley]

I've followed NT Athletics for over 32 years now. (Football, Basketball, Track etc) As some of you may know, I've compiled a list of most of the players to ever represent the Mean Green in Football and basketball. (since 1975) More than half, I would imagine, have been African American. This is the first time I have ever heard a black athlete accuse a coach or staff member of racism. How many of you have?

It is totally unfair to every other African American (or other race/religion) to continue to accuse a class of people, of excessively a "race card". This to me has become a typical excuse when we don't want to deal with the issue. (One allegation out of a thousand black players) Unlike Ramone Archie, I have been discriminated against. (Because of Race) I did file a complaint with the EEOC in which they sided with me. The company I had issues with is much better off today because of my actions. This was my only allegation ever, in which I sought no financial relief! No, it wasn't and is not popular to go against a large entity. I am comfortable with myself and others over the years who rightfully stand up and don't go along just to belong. (generally speaking)

Now, having said that, I have no opinion whatsoever on Dominque Green's situation! At this time, I don't think anyone has any of the facts!

I do know that most discrimination and sexual harrassment offenses, however, go unreported because of the backlash the accuser feels (due to the similar reactions on this board) Let's just wait for the university to conclude their internal review and move on. Dominque Green may not be a choir boy in the eyes of others but he deserves an opportunity to express his thoughts. We have an unwritten rule on this board to not bash a kids performance but if he's a marginal player who appears to have made a poor of the field decision, it's open season. In general, we are all for the Mean Green family but the truth is, no one will give a damn about Dominque Green when his eligibility is up. (we just don't need the distraction. "Recruits might hear about this"

Most claims to the NAACP and other similiar organizations lack merit. (or can't be substantiated) If this is a false allegation, I have all the confidence in the world that the organization will provide Mr. Green with some very useful advice.

As for the "Hood" connotation, unfortunately, the current Hip Hop generation has glorified the meaning. Much love and support to Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson & others across the country who are actively targeting (boycott and protests) hip hop radio stations for playing this mess. When the #1 song in America is "Cause I'm a Hood Nigger", it's time for action. I certainly don't condone Mr Green, but in light of the culture today and what's the kids at UNT are listening to in the dorms, I can almost guarantee that this was the basis his comments.

UNT today, and in the past, is the most diversed university in Texas. Kids will not let an isolated incident tarnish a great reputation.

Just my unpopular view, but mine nevertheless.

Go Mean Green

[UNT_playmaker]

I think this whole thing blew out of proportion, and is really tiring and overplayed.

Maybe the coach was ill-judge in his comments but I don't think UNT is a racist school....

SMU on the other hand...

[UNTflyer]

Maybe the coach was ill-judge in his comments...

How so???

[SouthBendGreen]

I go away from the board for a day and this whole thing blows up. I'm always very skeptical when it comes to race issues in sports. Based on just what D. Green said, it seems a little baseless, but this will play out.

I do want to point attention to an article written by Jason Whitlock. I'm sure most of you know he's notorious for stirring up the racial pot and has done so with this latest article.

I see Whitlock's points in this article and maybe Dodge and company sort of feel the same way. Read for yourself.

Whitlock column

[NT80]

Based on just what D. Green said, it seems a little baseless, but this will play out.

I agree it will take some time to get everyone's side of the story, but damage has already been done just by the accusation to Dodge & Co., to UNT, and to UNT football and sports in general. I'm curious as to what other black player's impressions of the situation are: validity of the offense and atmosphere, a misunderstood phrase, or just an isolated case of a disgruntled player?

[DB29]

This is an unfortunate situation and very difficult to say the least. I do not have an opinion on the D. Green situation bc there just is not enough information right now. However, I will say unless you have been discriminated against it is really hard to comment on such issues. Just because one may feel that it will have damaging consequences on the University, the athletic program or the football coaching staff is not reason to dismiss the allegations until all the facts are known. The comment about all the many African American athletes that has represented UNT throughtout the years and therefore means that it is not a racist University is a very IGNORANT comment and mindset. The allegations of D. Green is not against the University it is about an isolated comment from a particular coach and the coach's comment is what is in question. Not all this other stuff that some of you are talking about!

[Cr1028]

If what is said in the paper is what Dom said, I'm fine with it, the players can say that if they wish. They're in the heat of battle. However, I truly don't believe what Dom told Vito is what he actually said. Think about it.

Vito quoted Dom as saying, "We are from the hood". That sounds way too much like an english teacher speaking and way too little like a young man with his adrenaline pumping. He may have just said, "We from the hood baby!" or something like that but my bet is that whatever words Dom chose to exclude are the reason for the altercation. Insert any derrogatory term for baby, m f'er, b-word, whatever, then you have coaches on your rear about it.

[StealthEagle84]

What exact comments were made?

[Cr1028]

What exact comments were made?

Only those on the field know that. Vito only knows what Dom told him since nobody else is talking. That may very well be what Dom said, with grammatical cleanup at the very least.

[FirefightnRick]

The comment about all the many African American athletes that has represented UNT throughtout the years and therefore means that it is not a racist University is a very IGNORANT comment and mindset.

COOLEY

I've followed NT Athletics for over 32 years now. (Football, Basketball, Track etc) As some of you may know, I've compiled a list of most of the players to ever represent the Mean Green in Football and basketball. (since 1975) More than half, I would imagine, have been African American. This is the first time I have ever heard a black athlete accuse a coach or staff member of racism. How many of you have?

Good grief!!!!Cooley didn't say it's never happened, just the first time he's heard of it happening.

Rick

[SouthBendGreen]

However, I will say unless you have been discriminated against it is really hard to comment on such issues.

I couldn't disagree with this statement more. So by that reasoning the only time anyone can ever comment on anything is if they've gone through it? If that were true I wouldn't have the job I have now. If that were true many politicians wouldn't have a job.

Basically I could only have opinions on being married, living in California and the most desirable menu items at Taco Bell, of which there are many. I just think that's a very short-sighted view of things.

[DB29]

COOLEY

Good grief!!!!Cooley didn't say it's never happened, just the first time he's heard of it happening.

Rick

My point...it does not matter what has happened in the past. This is an isolated situation so what happened on Saturday night is what's in question. Do not get me wrong...I am not suggesting that anything wrong happened on Saturday...nobody knows but those involved. Hopefully this will be resolved soon and we can get back to talking about football.

[EagleMBA]

Good God, friends! The only RACE we're talking about here is the Human Race. The real issue is whether or not a coach or coaches has/have the right to establish rules by which his team will operate and abide. Rules of conduct, appropriate language, sportsmanship, other expectations.

My CEO expects me to not announce to customers and other stakeholders that I am hood or they are MFers. I feel certain that if he had to intervene after such an act on my part, my ass would be on the street. It is a matter of conforming to accepted and clearly defined standards of conduct stated in the employee handbook...or not.

[eulesseagle]

NT does not need the same type of problems that traditionally plagues schools like Miami. Take for instance the bench clearing brawl at Dolphin Stadium against FIU two maybe three years ago. NT does not need a "hood" culture in any of our programs.

Fortunately for some life is about order, rules and philosophies that are Biblically based. See examples in the Magna Carta, U.S. Constitution and other western european constitutions. Without rules of law we have anarchy.

Sounds to me the kid got upset and went mentally overboard. I wonder how many of these types of allegations are nothing more than allegations without substance.

Playing the race card should be more embarrasing to the kid than anyone else.

I hope this is quickly and dutifully resolved ASAP.

[OldTimer]

What exact comments were made?

See post today from *Telegram

[Cooley]

My point...it does not matter what has happened in the past. This is an isolated situation so what happened on Saturday night is what's in question. Do not get me wrong...I am not suggesting that anything wrong happened on Saturday...nobody knows but those involved. Hopefully this will be resolved soon and we can get back to talking about football.

DB29, you need to calm down and re-read what I meant by this comment!

My message was in response to the many people who always bring up the false claim that African Americans (and others) always play the race card. That to me is totally unfounded. (I used the number of ball players over the years as an example of the statement not being true) They may not have thought they received a fair shake and/or may have felt some form of bias but they never (to my knowledge) allege discrimination. (thus not using the race card) If you continue to read what I said, you will see that Dominque Green should not be tried and punished on this board with so little information. Lastly, if anyone feels that they were wronged they have the right to express themselve through whatever avenues are available without fear of retaliation.

Never noticed you on the board before, what do you think our chances are for the rest of the year?

[DB29]

DB29, you need to calm down and re-read what I meant by this comment!

My message was in response to the many people who always bring up the false claim that African Americans (and others) always play the race card. That to me is totally unfounded. (I used the number of ball players over the years as an example of the statement not being true) They may not have thought they received a fair shake and/or may have felt some form of bias but they never (to my knowledge) allege discrimination. (thus not using the race card) If you continue to read what I said, you will see that Dominque Green should not be tried and punished on this board with so little information. Lastly, if anyone feels that they were wronged they have the right to express themselve through whatever avenues are available without fear of retaliation.

Never noticed you on the board before, what do you think our chances are for the rest of the year?

Chances for what?... I post when the topic is worth discussing. Yea, probably jumped the gun on my respsonse to your post. I just feel that many people comment on issues that they have no clue because they have not had the experience. Another point is that a person can make a comment that makes a certain group or population feel uncomfortable without being a racist. I think that is the issue we have with D. Green...the comment not whether or not someone is racist. Being sensitive to differences and how to respond to others that are different than you in any setting is a must. If D. Green feels that he was mistreated in some way that is his right...The way that he handled it might not have been the best course of action. Let's all remember that these are young men being prepared for the real world. I apologize if I misunderstood your post.

Edited October 31, 2007 by DB29

[DB29]

I couldn't disagree with this statement more. So by that reasoning the only time anyone can ever comment on anything is if they've gone through it? If that were true I wouldn't have the job I have now. If that were true many politicians wouldn't have a job.

Basically I could only have opinions on being married, living in California and the most desirable menu items at Taco Bell, of which there are many. I just think that's a very short-sighted view of things.

Good...Go ask a mechanic for medical advice! Expierence and knowledge about a particular issue is far more credible than someone giving some uninformed off the cuff opinion. P.S. I hate taco bell!

[UNTFan23]

NT does not need the same type of problems that traditionally plagues schools like Miami. Take for instance the bench clearing brawl at Dolphin Stadium against FIU two maybe three years ago. NT does not need a "hood" culture in any of our programs.

The brawl happened last year. The color announcer also got canned when he starting talking about that's how it's done in Miami and that he should join in on the brawl. (Link)

In short, we don't need thuggery in our program.

[UNTflyer]

DB29, you need to calm down and re-read what I meant by this comment!

My message was in response to the many people who always bring up the false claim that African Americans (and others) always play the race card.

You are speaking in absolutes. Many blacks DO play the race card... quite often. Is Green playing it? I have no idea, but it sure smells like it...

Lastly, if anyone feels that they were wronged they have the right to express themselve through whatever avenues are available without fear of retaliation.

I completely disagree. Like many Americans, you seem to have an exaggerated sense of what you have a "right" to do. Words have meaning and they have consequences if they are thrown around carelessly. One does NOT have the "right" to besmirch the character of another just because they feel wronged.

Edited November 1, 2007 by UNTflyer

[rcade]

You are speaking in absolutes. Many blacks DO play the race card... quite often.

Claiming that many blacks play the race card is itself a generality. If you want people to be fair and deal with a situation on its own, without bringing outside stereotypes into it, set an example. Many whites ARE racist. Many whites ARE NOT racist. What's the point of throwing those kinds of generalities at each other?

[UNTflyer]

Claiming that many blacks play the race card is itself a generality. If you want people to be fair and deal with a situation on its own, without bringing outside stereotypes into it, set an example. Many whites ARE racist. Many whites ARE NOT racist. What's the point of throwing those kinds of generalities at each other?

Surprise, life is full of generalities that are... generally true!

My point was that speaking in absolutes is almost always a falsehood.

Generality: Many college students drink alcohol. (true)

Absolute: All college students drink alcohol. (false)

[Legend500]

Claiming that many blacks play the race card is itself a generality. If you want people to be fair and deal with a situation on its own, without bringing outside stereotypes into it, set an example. Many whites ARE racist. Many whites ARE NOT racist. What's the point of throwing those kinds of generalities at each other?

Many blacks are racist, too. To think that a coach is disciplining you because he's a racist bigot automatically makes one guilty of the same offense. This is an unfortunate action by Green and Chapman, as i'm quite certain they knew that such a complaint had to go through the AD first. Instead they go straight to the NAACP, which has no authority to investigate this matter, (whereas the Athletic Department and NCAA do), file a complaint about something which is not legally actionable (they must go through the AD and NCAA first), and in the process look like they're just being vindictive. Those facts are sufficient to ascertain that they just want attention and are leftovers from DD's poisonous regime.

Some Americans play the race card all the time. The Duke "rape" case, Cynthia McKinney, Michael Jackson, and Michael Vick all come to mind off the top of my head. I can't think of an instace where a non-black has used the race card. I represent a minority with less rights and respect than blacks or any other "group" in this country (even illegal immigrants can get married in this country, and one would be frowned upon if not beat up for protesting a black man's funeral with signs saying "god hates blacks") so I don't need or want a lecture on how the man is keeping people down.

Green and Chapman went around established procedure to get attention. Good for them. Maybe they'll enjoy ending their football careers and repaying UNT for their scholarships for this semester. I know if I, as a normal student, did such a thing I'd be out on my rear....but then again, I have to follow the rules....i'm not....

[Mean Green 93-98]

Again, it's Desmon Chatman, not Jeremiah Chapman, who has joined with Green in making these allegations.

[GreenBat]

Chapman

Chatman