I'm Fed Up At The Hits On Dodge And The Players

OldTimer · October 28, 2007

Lets blame the coaches for: Tyler Bailey not starting or playing this game because of having an auto accident and concussion. Center Drake getting injured in the game and not completing the game. Dodge because he didn't inherit enough quality offensive linemen from Dickey's last two losing season.

For those who loved Dickey so much you owe it to NT to support Dodge and give him and his coaches the same opportunity Dickey was given...for those who can't remember:

1998 won3 lost 8

1999 won 2 and lost 9

2000 won 3 and lost 8

2001 won 5 and lost 7...this is the year Dickey was fired by the AD and rehired by our board of regents president..

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Evidently those who are now saying our recruiting will suffer evidently don't read the recruiting forum. I believe Dodge had a remarkable recruiting for his first 30 days on the job in his 2007 class. Look at the number of this class that are playing and learning...Vizza, Dibrell, Mosely plus others.

We have 12 very Good recruits committed so far including three 3* players and too date none have deflicted. We have offered and were in the running for four 3* players who committed to other schools, we are currently in the running with offers to another four 3 * players (including 2 JC OL, one a JC All American), plus another two 3 * players that have expressed an interest in coming to NT that we don't know whether they have offers yet or not. When is the last time NT has recruited so many of the top players instead of "Waiting" for the late bloomers and leftovers (An this is not intended as hitting at the players....many have turned out to be really good) Prospective players can look at NT and see where they have the opportunity to play now.

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Just what do you want to do? Fire Dodge or some of his coaches? If you do this...I can guarantee you NT will not be able to employe a top notch coach who will see he will only be around less than a year before the NT FANS are calling for his demise. I don't know what your agenda is or why you aren't willing to cut some slack to Dodge. Just keep complaining and maybe you will convince some prospects they shouldn't go to North Texas who they and their families read this board.

Just wake up and be reasonably.

stebo · October 28, 2007

I couldn't have said it better. Things have never been better at NT. Attendance this year for a (so far) ALL Sun Belt Home Schedule. 20K for FAU, 19K for ULM, and 18K for MUTS. This if for a one win team that was blown out the night before. Look around the nation, look at DD's new school - they are winless and had 8K show up last night. Most programs of our caliber have a significant drop-off after the start of a bad season, we have held our fans. We have held them because hope is around the corner. Just wait until Dodge has his first real recruiting class on campus. Just wait until we have D-Backs that can stop the big play. Our strength in our D Line has been restored, they were making plays all over the place the last 4 weeks, we just don't have anything against the big play (which means that the talent is there, Mendoza just might need to switch to something other then a cover one approach!)

I haven't lost any faith in Dodge. In fact, my respect for him has gone up tremendously. Starting Vizza and the other young players that he has showed that we was willing to chalk up the year for a learning/rebuilding year. This man is a winner and cannot stand to lose, that is why Meager trotted out there against OU, maybe - just maybe, he would have a slightly better chance. But he is already thinking about next year and ya gotta love him for that. I went into this season expecting 2 wins - FIU and WKY. So far, we have exceeded my expectations! On every level! Look at our attendance, it is unheard of in the Belt with a losing team! Who else has one win and is averaging 20K through 3 games? That is incredible!

I hope that Harry/Cerebus keep track of those of you on this board that put down this program, these players, and this coach. I can honestly understand people being mad about the kicking game (and special teams in general) as well as the secondary - but you cannot blame every other part. They are all doing their job, their success is just not happening simultaneously and it is inconsistent due to their lack of conditioning and experience.

Give this time folks and remember your expectations that you set BEFORE the season started. I expected two wins. It is looking like we might have 3 or 4. Dodge is already exceeding my expectations. Those of you complaining, well - I think it is time for you to ask Scotty for the keys to the Voy board and go fire away over there. This is the positive board and I would like to keep it that way.

untbowler · October 28, 2007

I'll just get the flame going.

Thanks guys for showing that the message board is in fact a clique. Also not sure why we have to listen to the certain few all the time and type with baited breath because Dodge is the savior for the UNT program. Yes we are young, yes DD apparently left the cupboard bare, but why could we not expect more? Many are tired of waiting, even though Dodge said we will lean on the defense, guess he expected his good friend to be able to hold to teams less than 50pts a game. If unfettered Dodge a$$ kissing is what is needed to join this little exclusive club, I think most will pass on the chance. Guess we should all just sit on our hands and let every other Sun Belt Team and LOWER Mid Major make us look like a HS Team, but wait next year will be better...or maybe 2009...2010.

To bad UNT fans can not express their disappointment without being slammed. Guess I am not a fan anymore because I expect more.

rcade · October 28, 2007

I hope that Harry/Cerebus keep track of those of you on this board that put down this program, these players, and this coach. ... This is the positive board and I would like to keep it that way.

What the hell? This wasn't the positive board last fall when Dickey got run. And it wasn't the positive board before Dickey began winning. Giving Dodge and these players a fair chance doesn't mean ignoring the fact that this season has been completely fu-, er, unpositive.

OldTimer · October 28, 2007

What the hell? This wasn't the positive board last fall when Dickey got run. And it wasn't the positive board before Dickey began winning. Giving Dodge and these players a fair chance doesn't mean ignoring the fact that this season has been completely fu-, er, unpositive.

THE DIFFERENCE...DICKEY WAS IN HIS 9TH YEAR AS HEAD COACH WITH ONLY 3 WINNING SEASONS...HIS LAST TWO YEAR WERE TWO AND NINE AND TWO AND TEN.

DODGE IS NOT EVEN THROUGH HIS FIRST YEAR....IT TOOK DICKEY 3 LOSING SEASONS BEFORE HE STARTING WINNING.

Got5onIt · October 28, 2007

It's apparent the losing has gotten to you too, OldTimer. I agree with alot with what you're saying, but injuries are part of the game that every team has to deal with. Personal attacks are uncalled for period. But "constructive" criticisms shouldn't be censored and I fear we are moving in that direction.

Please don't deal with it in this way and place an iron fist on these boards.

Edited October 28, 2007 by Got5onIt

rcade · October 28, 2007

THE DIFFERENCE...DICKEY WAS IN HIS 9TH YEAR AS HEAD COACH WITH ONLY 3 WINNING SEASONS...HIS LAST TWO YEAR WERE TWO AND NINE AND TWO AND TEN.
DODGE IS NOT EVEN THROUGH HIS FIRST YEAR....IT TOOK DICKEY 3 LOSING SEASONS BEFORE HE STARTING WINNING.

And during Dickey's first losing seasons, I don't recall fans here being positive about it. I have faith in Dodge's long-term plan, but that doesn't mean pretending the sky is green and it's OK to play like this. I expected Dodge's team to get a few wins this season and be competitive in others.

From where I'm sitting, North Texas fans are afraid that if we're critical, Dodge will leave and/or some recruits won't show up. That brings to mind two questions:

1. Do people really think that GoMeanGreen has that kind of impact?

2. Does UNT need coaches and players who can't handle criticism on an Internet message board?

I have trouble believing Dodge could roll up high school football teams for year after year in Southlake and not be able to handle fan criticism. I'll bet North Texas boosters are easier on him than Southlake parents!

PlummMeanGreen · October 28, 2007

I couldn't have said it better. Things have never been better at NT. Attendance this year for a (so far) ALL Sun Belt Home Schedule. 20K for FAU, 19K for ULM, and 18K for MUTS. This if for a one win team that was blown out the night before. Look around the nation, look at DD's new school - they are winless and had 8K show up last night. Most programs of our caliber have a significant drop-off after the start of a bad season, we have held our fans. We have held them because hope is around the corner. Just wait until Dodge has his first real recruiting class on campus. Just wait until we have D-Backs that can stop the big play. Our strength in our D Line has been restored, they were making plays all over the place the last 4 weeks, we just don't have anything against the big play (which means that the talent is there, Mendoza just might need to switch to something other then a cover one approach!)
I haven't lost any faith in Dodge. In fact, my respect for him has gone up tremendously. Starting Vizza and the other young players that he has showed that we was willing to chalk up the year for a learning/rebuilding year. This man is a winner and cannot stand to lose, that is why Meager trotted out there against OU, maybe - just maybe, he would have a slightly better chance. But he is already thinking about next year and ya gotta love him for that. I went into this season expecting 2 wins - FIU and WKY. So far, we have exceeded my expectations! On every level! Look at our attendance, it is unheard of in the Belt with a losing team! Who else has one win and is averaging 20K through 3 games? That is incredible!
I hope that Harry/Cerebus keep track of those of you on this board that put down this program, these players, and this coach. I can honestly understand people being mad about the kicking game (and special teams in general) as well as the secondary - but you cannot blame every other part. They are all doing their job, their success is just not happening simultaneously and it is inconsistent due to their lack of conditioning and experience.
Give this time folks and remember your expectations that you set BEFORE the season started. I expected two wins. It is looking like we might have 3 or 4. Dodge is already exceeding my expectations. Those of you complaining, well - I think it is time for you to ask Scotty for the keys to the Voy board and go fire away over there. This is the positive board and I would like to keep it that way.

Amen to both you & Old Timer, Stebo.

I gave DD 7 years (out of 9--long enough for any D1-A coach BTW) to show upward bound-ness (future rankings for starters) for our football program, yet he still kept on recruiting (only) at a SBC level of competition (which in its first 4 years was a very weak league of rag-tag throw-together football teams). Not only did that kind of recruiting hurt us now, but it literally kept Darrell Dickey from getting "not one" interview for another D1-A HFC's job. Anyone want to tie a few things together with even that and why that happened?

This forum is going to have to get out of its burn the barn down to kill the mouse mentality. It will only hurt recruiting for those recruits who do read this board (and their parents) according to a former UNT assistant football coach who said both parties do read GoMeanGreen.com. So...............do any of you really want to hurt our alma mater's football recruiting in the future so we can (in deed) rid ourselves of our very low profile most recent past? Well?

Most of us didn't forecast too many wins this season in light of the last 2 seasons. As OldTimer said, lets give TDodge the benefit of the doubt (and the same amount of time DD Ball had which one UNT Board of Regent chairman of the board forced on us to hang onto much longer than was needed. 4 bowl games as SBC Champion its first 4 years of operation for certain; but whose to say Rick V may have found a better fit for UNT (with positive PR at the top of the list) HFC back in 2001 who would have had UNT as "ranked" SBC football champion sorta' like that WAC gang has been having of late?

We deserve better than what we've been getting the last 2 1/2 decades in Mean Green Country and lets all hope Todd Dodge will be the man--but lets give him time to be the man with his recruits and give him more than 1 season to prove it.

If you went into a sales office as that sale's office new Director of Sales for a department full of sales persons you inherited, would you immediately want to be judged on your predeccessor's record with that same sales staff..................and in your first 3 months of production to boot? Didn't think so....

Edited October 28, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

stebo · October 28, 2007

Thanks Plumm, couple of small corrections though. The Belt is not the same Belt that it was three years ago. The last two years, the Belt has averaged more wins (both years) over CUSA teams then losses. They also beat the crap out of them in the bowl game. The Belt is ranked right next to CUSA in Sags and we are both behind a IAA conference. And the last thing - DD has two job offers that I know of while he was out coach. Remember Idaho trying to hire him away? The other - I cannot talk about, but let's just say that if he had wanted that job - he is screwing up the audition process at the moment.

I was looking around the ESPN boxscores last night from yesterday's games. I looked at our old Big West foes to see how they are doing. With the exception of one team - Boise State - they are all doing terrible and their attendance is even worse then when they were in the far flung Big West. Yet, on the other hand - the teams in the Belt have all drastically improved their attendance. I am talking, doubling their attendances. We really have solid leadership in the Belt and a strong cost of supporters from our brother members. There are a few that I could live without, those basketball only schools, along with ULM (lol)... but we (as a group) are pretty damned good now. I think that we can be the next Boise State, and you know what? I think that we can accomplish it in the Sun Belt.

GrandGreen · October 28, 2007

Sports message boards were created for fans to express their opinions. Does anyone really believe that a recruit checks out the coaching staff, educational opportunities, tradition, how he would fit with the team, etc. and then makes his college choice based on the fans message board? Just out of curiosity, can anyone point out a football message board of a team with a losing record that is not negative.

NT deserves it's bottom ten rating. Yet, apparently the coaching staff is above criticism because of injuries, youth, poor talent, and the specter of DD riding over the program. What logic equates expressing criticism for a football staff that is clearly in the learning mode with being a DD supporter? Facts are, NT is overall not a young football team and has been very lucky with injuries so far this year. Not many predicted NT to be very good this year, but most did not expect NT to be as bad as indicated by the first 8 games.

The suggestion that someone should be taking names has got to be the symptom of something, perhaps mad crow disease.

I for one, am still elated with the choice of TD as coach and believe he will be a great success. I have no doubt he will be given the full term of his contract despite the record, but TD and staff are not above criticism. Perhaps this team does not have the talent to be a top tier Belt team, but there is certainly enough talent to be more competitive than shown so far this year.

eulesseagle · October 28, 2007

excellent post OldTimer

Coach · October 28, 2007

I'm with OT and stebo here. I am no less excited about our future than I was when the season started.

UNTLifer · October 28, 2007

And during Dickey's first losing seasons, I don't recall fans here being positive about it. I have faith in Dodge's long-term plan, but that doesn't mean pretending the sky is green and it's OK to play like this. I expected Dodge's team to get a few wins this season and be competitive in others.
From where I'm sitting, North Texas fans are afraid that if we're critical, Dodge will leave and/or some recruits won't show up. That brings to mind two questions:
1. Do people really think that GoMeanGreen has that kind of impact?
2. Does UNT need coaches and players who can't handle criticism on an Internet message board?
I have trouble believing Dodge could roll up high school football teams for year after year in Southlake and not be able to handle fan criticism. I'll bet North Texas boosters are easier on him than Southlake parents!

I'm not scared of Dodge picking up a leaving because of criticism, but I am tired of people not looking at the situation he inherited realistically. Dodge is committed to NT, and we should realistically look at the hand he was dealt upon arrival and give him and his staff some time to implement their system and recruit players to fit this system.

Talon90 · October 28, 2007

I must have missed something.......where is it stated that you can't be excited about the future but still be concerned about the present?

That seems to be the common opinion with most fans I talk to at the games.

As for the message board negativity, the day we start censoring negative posts is the day this message board will die.

I began posting on Harry's old board back in the beginning of the DD era and even though the number of posters were a lot less, it was absolutely brutal. This negativity for Dodge is NOTHING compared to the beginning of the 2001 season for Dickey.

We all want the same results here but some have different opinions as to how it should look.

GMG!

LoveMG · October 28, 2007

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Just what do you want to do? Fire Dodge or some of his coaches?

thanks for the opinion old man. i have one too. that is what message boards are for, exchange of opinions. yours is not any better than mine and you can not dictate how you want us to post, tough toots. yes some coaches need to be exchanged especially on defense. have a nice day.

Cerebus · October 28, 2007

I hope that Harry/Cerebus keep track of those of you on this board that put down this program, these players, and this coach.

Stebo, I love ya, but no.

Cerebus · October 28, 2007

thanks for the opinion old man. i have one too. that is what message boards are for, exchange of opinions. yours is not any better than mine and you can not dictate how you want us to post, tough toots. yes some coaches need to be exchanged especially on defense. have a nice day.

People, lets keep it respectful or lets not post. This goes for everyone.

akriesman · October 28, 2007

Thanks Old Timer :clapping: Despite the way things appear to be, I am sure that most people still agree with you.

Unfortunately, this kind of thing takes place on every public sports forum these days. It is not just here with NT.

MeanGreen61 · October 28, 2007

The ONLYconcern I have about TD is that he may hesitate to make coaching changes, if needed, because of individual loyalty. I'm excited about the future with TD, but less than thrilled about the defensive coaching performance and the special teams performance. Basically the same defensive players performed much better last year and special teams have gone to heck. We've gotta have a college level DC and special teams coaching to be successful.

Edited October 28, 2007 by MeanGreen61

Daddy Dumpsalot · October 28, 2007

I think the people that are saying that firing Dodge or ANY of his staff are PATHETIC and completely UNREALISTIC. Dan Hawkins at CU last year won 2 games, did they fire him?? I don't know why people think that the hiring of Dodge would turn the season around in 1 season. We are still playing with the same declining players and talent that we had with Dickey's losing seasons. Yes TD had a nice recruiting class, well lets let them get acclomated to the more seasoned players and have them get acclomated to the new offense and defense. And I'm sorry to say to the unrealistic few this is going to take more than a few months of practice and scrimmages.

I will personally say I am glad that we are having such a bad season because when we eventually start winning we will know it was because our head coach TD had a losing and terrible season and the victories will taste so much sweeter.

So if you dont like the way things are going this season take your hiatus and report back in 2 years. Otherwise support, stop complaining, and stop trying to rally up troops to get on the "Fire the coaches" badwagon.

If there is one thing that we CAN complain about its watching Vizza get pounded because our tackles cant protect anything. But other than that these football games are entertaining.

KingDL1 · October 28, 2007

The ONLYconcern I have about TD is that he may hesitate to make coaching changes, if needed, because of individual loyalty. I'm excited about the future with TD, but less than thrilled about the defensive coaching performance. Basically the same defensive players performed much better last year. We've gotta have a college level DC to be successful.

Please do you homework because basically is not the same is not the same first of all.

Second of all last years defense was far from stellar.

Third the average level of offenses we have faced this year is nearly twice as good as last years FACT.

Fourth the defense has played much better the last three games, but in the last two game other areas of the team have let them down.

Fifth even though the Defense has improved they are not good enough to overcome 5 turnovers, a blocked punt recovered at our 5 yard line, and 4 points given up on safeties.

Sixth even at that yes the defense has a long way to go, but to make such a statement as this

We've gotta have a college level DC to be successful.

is not well informed at this point in our time-line.

Last we have some good players we are just short a couple great players to elevate the Defense, the impact of a player the caliber of "Booger" Kennedy bringing a one man wrecking crew though all offensive lines would make everyone on the Defense seem better. This is why "basically the same" don't cut it for me.

meangreendork · October 28, 2007

Can't really blame anyone for last night. People got hurt and MTSU was able to get incredible field position the entire night, not to mention the safeties. You can't even really blame anyone for the safeties---it's hard not to have them happen when you start on the 1-yard line and the QB takes the snap in the endzone. Our guys fought very hard last night, and that's why the score was where it was and why the stats were what they were.

I hope our guys stick in there and keep fighting all season.

TheTastyGreek · October 28, 2007

Can't really blame anyone for last night. People got hurt and MTSU was able to get incredible field position the entire night, not to mention the safeties. You can't even really blame anyone for the safeties---it's hard not to have them happen when you start on the 1-yard line and the QB takes the snap in the endzone.

Poof. Like magic, MTSU gets good field position. I wish the football fairy that let them start there would wave her magic wand over us. Or at least give us some sort of ability to impact and influence where MTSU gets the ball. Whether that be through special teams execution or ball control on offense.

And as for the safeties, I guess we should just take a knee in the end zone any time we get pinned inside the 5. It certainly isn't the fault of the coaches that with the...

Ball on the 1 inch line for the 2nd time in 10 minutes, and you hand off on a draw play from the shotgun, 4 yards deep in the endzone that results in another safety.
This was possibly the worst offensive decision and play I have ever seen by a North Texas coaching staff. That beats Parker forgetting the down on homecoming against ULM back in '91? and Dickey's 3rd and forever draw plays by leaps and bounds in my oppinion. Before the snap the Muts had both safety's up and showed that they were bringing everyone and yet someone still thought we were going to succeed on a handoff from 4 yards deep in the endzone? Had it happened at OU or SMU, ok, I could forget it and just write it off as a new staff learning the ropes etc. But to see it in the 8th game of the year against the best defense in the belt makes me realize how much of a massive learning curve this staff truly is at.

Oh, fiddle-dee-dee! Another safety! Best not to think about it. Surely not anyone's fault.

FirefightnRick · October 28, 2007

Please do you homework because basically is not the same is not the same first of all.
Second of all last years defense was far from stellar.
Third the average level of offenses we have faced this year is nearly twice as good as last years FACT.
Fourth the defense has played much better the last three games, but in the last two game other areas of the team have let them down.
Fifth even though the Defense has improved they are not good enough to overcome 5 turnovers, a blocked punt recovered at our 5 yard line, and 4 points given up on safeties.
Sixth even at that yes the defense has a long way to go, but to make such a statement as this is not well informed at this point in our time-line.
Last we have some good players we are just short a couple great players to elevate the Defense, the impact of a player the caliber of "Booger" Kennedy bringing a one man wrecking crew though all offensive lines would make everyone on the Defense seem better. This is why "basically the same" don't cut it for me.

No one needs to do their homework when a defense goes from 64th to 117th-119th with basically the same players. But that's now in the past. Maybe we need to just write it up as what it is: A learning curve and leave it at that.

The difference between the level of offenses we have faced last year to this point in the season this year is around 12 points better, and that's only because Troy is doing so well offensively.

Of course the defense has played better the past three weeks, it's the Sunbelt? And I expect to see us get even better the rest of the way. With the next few weeks in mind I might add that Western Kentucky, a 1-AA transitional team beat MTSU.

Rick

Edited October 28, 2007 by FirefightnRick

MeanGreen61 · October 28, 2007

Please do you homework because basically is not the same is not the same first of all.
Second of all last years defense was far from stellar.
Third the average level of offenses we have faced this year is nearly twice as good as last years FACT.
Fourth the defense has played much better the last three games, but in the last two game other areas of the team have let them down.
Fifth even though the Defense has improved they are not good enough to overcome 5 turnovers, a blocked punt recovered at our 5 yard line, and 4 points given up on safeties.
Sixth even at that yes the defense has a long way to go, but to make such a statement as this is not well informed at this point in our time-line.
Last we have some good players we are just short a couple great players to elevate the Defense, the impact of a player the caliber of "Booger" Kennedy bringing a one man wrecking crew though all offensive lines would make everyone on the Defense seem better. This is why "basically the same" don't cut it for me.

Kudo's for aceing Excuses 101 !

Last year's defense played in a new system & may not have been stellar, but they did perform well enough to ranked in the mid 60's. They ALSO had to deal with "problems" such as poor field position, turnovers, etc because of the offense. We really didn't have a big impact player last year either. TD even said, probably to his regret, that the D would be the strength of this year's team and it sure AIN'T HAPPENED.

Edited October 29, 2007 by MeanGreen61