Our Future

October 24, 2007

Let's assume for a moment that we turn the football program around (which I firmly believe will happen) and can achieve at least Top 50 status on a consistent basis...what happens then?

We seem to be in consensus that our goal is CUSA. Problem is, there is no opening and there may not be for some time to come. Besides, CUSA is not a homogeneous conference. Further, we now have some stiff competition from Troy for the next spot. Hell, maybe even FAU, as someone rumored.

It would take high ranked consistency over a long period of time to be asked by the MWC. Boise has done very well in the last ten years and they haven't been asked. I also don't see TCU making a play to get us in if we achieve Boise's status. Not only that, TCU is the only member in less than a day's drive. Scratch that thought.

If any Sun Belt team became successful, they would leave for a better conference in a heartbeat. It would also be hard to keep us together as a conference because we are so scattered. We are becoming a better conference in terms of overall strength and if we can hold together I think that it's possible that we surpass the MAC, WAC and CUSA.

Someone suggested a conference comprised of the following state institutions: New Mexico State, UTEP, North Texas, Houston, Louisiana (Lafayette), Louisiana Tech, Arkansas State, Memphis, Southern Miss and Troy. That would be an array of mostly solid but not spectacular (except Memphis in basketball) teams in the major sports, both men's and women's.

The only real losers (thus the hard sell) would be CUSA members basketball money. Attendance should increase and travel costs decrease. I'd see interest from at least a couple of the bowls. Since it would do away with Sun Belt football, maybe their staff could be hired in its entirety; a relatively easy transition.

I'd be interested to know others thought about such a conference.

Eagle1855 · October 24, 2007

I'm all for it, but Rice and SMU would never go for it and both institutions have more political pull than UNT.

Edited October 24, 2007 by Eagle1855

forevereagle · October 24, 2007

I'm all for it, but Rice and SMU would never go for it and both institutions have more political pull than UNT.

If that is the case, then find two others instead (Tulane and Tulsa as a couple of names) and don't invite them to the party. It would be nice to have a couple of regional schools for us, but this conference proposal is better for us than the Belt or CUSA.

eulesseagle · October 24, 2007

We all know that the conference "shake ups" are not through.......and probably never will be.

There are always bloggers who have "rumors" or "the word on the street."

NT just has to be "athletically" ready to have the facilities, attendance and possibly a little discretionary cash to make the move when the next "shake up" occurs. We can speculate all we want and arbitrarily make our own "dream" conferences and discuss would-have, could-have and should-have but in the present state of affairs there are plenty of excellent mid-major teams that are not being invited to other preferable conferences.

--In the present reality some speculate that Troy will be invited to CUSA because of their record.

--Some say Memphis will move to the Big East.

--Some say Southern Miss wants to join the SBC.

--Some say USU will drop down to D-1AA.

--Some say Boise will be the next invite to the MWC.

--Some say TCU will be moving to a BCS conference.

--Some say the WAC will join with the SBC when Hawaii moves to the PAC 10.

--Some say Elvis now attends Portland State University games.

Instead of worrying about all the what ifs that are "not" occuring today or tomorrow why not just get behind RV and support all of our teams. Because in reality the "only" aspect of this change, as fans, we can change is donations and attendance. Let the athletic staffs of all the departments worry about recruiting and winning.

I trust that TD will give us a winner at Fouts but he can not do it overnight. He did not do it in one season at SLC but he did produce a consistant winner. TD knows what it takes to win and win consistantly and in my feeble little mind that is good enough for me.

Eagle1855 · October 24, 2007

but this conference proposal is better for us than the Belt or CUSA.

Nobody is disputing that. Unfortunately, the college football world isnt shaped by the whims of UNT.

OldTimer · October 24, 2007

If that is the case, then find two others instead (Tulane and Tulsa as a couple of names) and don't invite them to the party. It would be nice to have a couple of regional schools for us, but this conference proposal is better for us than the Belt or CUSA.

Tulsa, Rice, SMU and Tulane are all non public school private schools....that think they are academically superior to a state school and don't want to associate with a state college or university. ...I would love a resurrected SW Conference but don't see that happening.

Wish I had the answer...the first step is to build our program where other schools want us.....not us wanting them. We have that potential here.

yyz28 · October 24, 2007

So long as the BCS has a hold of College Football's collective nads, I don't see how the mid major conferences can't help but shift around and become more regional over time. It is the only way for these schools to do in order to level the playing field and drive excitement into their programs. ...but this will take lots of time, and will be an ever shifting target.

...and while I agree with how private schools see the publics, the economics of the situation will be the driving factor, not snobbery.

EagleD · October 24, 2007

Instead of worrying about all the what ifs that are "not" occuring today or tomorrow why not just get behind RV and support all of our teams.

B/c that what people on message boards do. Especially when their team is losing...a lot. It's fun to speculate.

GO MEAN GREEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NT80 · October 24, 2007

It is almost impossible to start any new conference now because of NCAA tournament entry requirements and past tourney or bowl money that teams will not want to forfeit. NT is in a very desirable recruiting location, a major media market, international airport, and huge population area; all things existing conferences crave. All we need is a real 1-A football facility, better results in revenue sports, and MORE attendance = invite to better conference.

hickoryhouse · October 24, 2007

Lets wory about what we are going to do when we get ther, when we get there. As for now we should be more concerned about actually getting there.

lightningstrikes · October 25, 2007

If any Sun Belt team became successful, they would leave for a better conference in a heartbeat.

From this Middle Tennessee fan's perspective, I don't agree. It's more important to build the Belt up. Some feel that the Belt is rapidly overtaking C-USA....we as a conference should concentrate on that instead of making it sound like a bit of success and it's bail time.

Middle and Western arethe most successful teams in the Belt, overall (Bubbas Cups) and neither has bailed...in fact Western is going to give the Belt an infusion of competitiveness by joining in football. Neither Middle nor Western, SFAIK, are looking to bail.

Was UNT looking to bail after four NO bowl appearances?

Let's hang together as a conference...we'll have another bowl tie in hopefully in 2008.

yyz28 · October 25, 2007

I agree... I don't think the 'Belt is such a bad place to be right now... We're on the heels of CUSA in terms of football performance, and a couple of moves, and there are some schools that will be coming to US. What a change...

Let's sit tight.

Win Conf. Championships. Win OOC Games. Continue our BBall success... We'll be calling our own shots if we do that. In the meantime, our school and all the schools in the belt should take care of bueinss, do what we can to build the performance and reputation of THIS conference and good things will happen.

This means cheering on ALL SBC Teams when they are playing any other conference (yeah, even MUTS!) and it means watching every SBC game you can find on TV. Get wins and build ratings. THIS is how our conference will succeed.

GO MEAN GREEN! GO BELT!

Dodge2007 · October 25, 2007

Anywhere but the WAC. Time change and distance will be a drain both physically and financially.

MeanGreen61 · October 25, 2007

Let's assume for a moment that we turn the football program around (which I firmly believe will happen) and can achieve at least Top 50 status on a consistent basis...what happens then?
We seem to be in consensus that our goal is CUSA. Problem is, there is no opening and there may not be for some time to come. Besides, CUSA is not a homogeneous conference. Further, we now have some stiff competition from Troy for the next spot. Hell, maybe even FAU, as someone rumored.
It would take high ranked consistency over a long period of time to be asked by the MWC. Boise has done very well in the last ten years and they haven't been asked. I also don't see TCU making a play to get us in if we achieve Boise's status. Not only that, TCU is the only member in less than a day's drive. Scratch that thought.
If any Sun Belt team became successful, they would leave for a better conference in a heartbeat. It would also be hard to keep us together as a conference because we are so scattered. We are becoming a better conference in terms of overall strength and if we can hold together I think that it's possible that we surpass the MAC, WAC and CUSA.
Someone suggested a conference comprised of the following state institutions: New Mexico State, UTEP, North Texas, Houston, Louisiana (Lafayette), Louisiana Tech, Arkansas State, Memphis, Southern Miss and Troy. That would be an array of mostly solid but not spectacular (except Memphis in basketball) teams in the major sports, both men's and women's.
The only real losers (thus the hard sell) would be CUSA members basketball money. Attendance should increase and travel costs decrease. I'd see interest from at least a couple of the bowls. Since it would do away with Sun Belt football, maybe their staff could be hired in its entirety; a relatively easy transition.
I'd be interested to know others thought about such a conference.

How about a conference without snooty private schools ? Can schedule them for OC games. Some good rivalries in this mix.

West

North Texas

UTEP

New Mexico State

Houston

Louisiana-Lafayette

Louisiana Tech

East

Arkansas State

Memphis

Southern Miss

Troy

UAB

Middle Tennessee

Edited October 25, 2007 by MeanGreen61

mean green d · October 25, 2007

That last one makes alot of sense.

Censored by Laurie · October 25, 2007

Gotta have one token snooty private school (Baylor, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Stanford ect.)...so lets add TCU and extend middle fingers toward Dallas from both the West and North.

Vizza4QB · October 25, 2007

As long as our athletic programs keep struggling in the SBC we arent going anywhere. I think we need to slow down by wanting to be in CUSA. Lets try winning in the SBC for a few years in more then one sport then, we can maybe think about moving to another confrence. Lets experience some winning times before we go looking for better teams to play. No one wants a team that cant win in the minor leagues. Say what you want UNT is in the minor leagues just like most of the programs in D-1A.

Green Lantern · October 25, 2007

As long as our athletic programs keep struggling in the SBC we arent going anywhere. I think we need to slow down by wanting to be in CUSA. Lets try winning in the SBC for a few years in more then one sport then, we can maybe think about moving to another confrence. Lets experience some winning times before we go looking for better teams to play. No one wants a team that cant win in the minor leagues. Say what you want UNT is in the minor leagues just like most of the programs in D-1A.

So four consecutive football Conference championships/NO Bowl appearances, winning the Sunbelt Conference Basketball tourney as well as making an NCAA Tourney appearance, couple of women's NIT appearances, as well as a highly successful soccer program...all in recent years don't put NT into consideration for other conferences should another shakeup occur?

I'm just pointing this out because we have seen unprecedented athletic success for NT (as a whole) in last decade. Sometimes this fact gets lost on us due to internal bitching about current happenings (ie. a really crappy football season). North Texas is not the only candidate that would be looked at in future expansions, but to discount us because of a bad stint in football right now would be stupid.

Edited October 25, 2007 by Green Lantern

October 25, 2007

And add baseball and a couple other men's sports...

Keith7 · October 26, 2007

MWC and CUSA both suck.. why don't we just hope for the sunbelt to keep getting better and gain respect that way?? I think that would do more for us than joining another mediocre conference

Vizza4QB · October 26, 2007

So four consecutive football Conference championships/NO Bowl appearances, winning the Sunbelt Conference Basketball tourney as well as making an NCAA Tourney appearance, couple of women's NIT appearances, as well as a highly successful soccer program...all in recent years don't put NT into consideration for other conferences should another shakeup occur?

We have done nothing in the SBC in football in several years. We won the basketball tourney last year but we did that as the 4 or 5 seed. The NIT appearences should not be what you hang your hat on. It should be going to the NCAA tourney. The softball program is not great either. If you are not great in Football you need to be really good in all the other sports. UNT right now is not that at the current moment. I hope that one day UNT can compete with the big boys but right now we are not at that level. If you think we are then i beleive your jsut being a homer. Again I want the best for UNT athletics but im also realistic in the fact that in this age of college sports we are a have not. I dont use that as an excuse for our programs that is just the way i see it. I feel that even after all the big schools take the kids that are supossed to be great there are plenty of players in the state of Texas for UNT to be sucessful. We may never compete with Texas or Oklahoma on an every year basis but wouldnt it be great to do it once in a while.

Edited October 26, 2007 by Vizza4QB

Censored by Laurie · October 26, 2007

MWC and CUSA both suck.. why don't we just hope for the sunbelt to keep getting better and gain respect that way?? I think that would do more for us than joining another mediocre conference

the most reasonable quote I think I have seen on this subject in a while...aside from me stating we should give the bird to dallas from Funkytown and Dirty D...that was smart too.

NT80 · October 26, 2007

MWC and CUSA both suck.. why don't we just hope for the sunbelt to keep getting better and gain respect that way?? I think that would do more for us than joining another mediocre conference

? How many years would it take the SBC to overtake the MWC and CUSA? Not in our lifetimes. It's not just about an Arkansas State beating an SMU now and then, it's about all sports, bigger budgets, better facilities, more media, more Bowls and many more sponsors. It is a food chain and we are among plankton!

Daddy Dumpsalot · October 26, 2007

MWC and CUSA both suck.. why don't we just hope for the sunbelt to keep getting better and gain respect that way?? I think that would do more for us than joining another mediocre conference

What crack are you smoking? Look at the MWC and the history from their schools. Utah, BYU, TCU, UNLV, Colorado State. All of these schools give the 'big boys' a run for their money if not beat them in football or basketball.

The Sunbelt is going NOWHERE. Sure we may have a team or two that is doing something never been done in the history of this lousy conference (ie Troy/FAU) but get off your SBC high because it wont last long. One of two things will happen - a) They will bail at first chance like we should have done a long time ago or 2) They will start to suck again after a few years.

Bottom line is that the schools are getting their first chance in Div. I. The schools here have zero tradition...just look at their names ULamo, Ulafayette, Florida International, Florida Atlantic...it's pathetic. Troy will be the first school out and if not them then Ak St.

Even the CUSA schools have tradition and some winning traditions, which the Sunbelt has nothing. And if they suck at all sports - Rice - their degree is VERY valuable.

In this conference there is NO respect.

PlummMeanGreen · October 26, 2007

As long as our athletic programs keep struggling in the SBC we arent going anywhere. I think we need to slow down by wanting to be in CUSA. Lets try winning in the SBC for a few years in more then one sport then, we can maybe think about moving to another confrence. Lets experience some winning times before we go looking for better teams to play. No one wants a team that cant win in the minor leagues. Say what you want UNT is in the minor leagues just like most of the programs in D-1A.

Outside of getting our school to build a new A/C of which Mattress Mac paid 1/9'th of its cost with his $1 million (and with his 1/9'th held our school hostage "again" making us name a practice facility after a coach with a 9 year under .500 W/L record; yet what did 4 bowl games really do for us, especially as an SBC champion and an unranked one at that? Did it get us in CUSA? Hellsbells, a school that had the only Death Penalty in NCAA history was suddenly exonnerated and forgiven by other CUSA-ers' as to get them in that league before we even had a chance to say Hello (all you) Darlings of the rest of CUSA--you who should have had the gonads to stand up over one school, ie, a 2 decade-loser of a school that had an N.C. 70 years ago now.

BUT WHERE DO OUR PROBLEMS REALLY BEGIN? Many on this board's answer for our future is to replace one 30,000 seat stadium with another one (in light of all the boom growth happening right under our noses). I think NT Exes and Mean Green fans across the board need to raise their own expectation for what a school of our size and scope can ultimately do (and I don't think that was even happening during a 4 year bowl run, either, cause look at how many would be satisfied with being an unranked SBC football champion just to get back to what used to be a New Orleans that was larger than Denton County in population pre-Katrina)?

On another subject, and since hindsight is most always 20/20: Might it have almost been better for Darrell Dicky to have really been asked to come back for a (gulp) 10'th year so he could have been here for the complete bottoming out of what is still mostly his program? (I jest, of course). Yet what if he had come back to show us what he really left behind? Even coming back after what was his "black-jerseys-gate" football program which might have been his style all the time as far as his symbolically mooning his very employer and his employer's stock-holders, ie, NT students, NT Exes and Mean Green fans?

Didn't black-jerseys-gate (with poor recruiting even on a SBC level his last 3-4 years) prove that discipline problems existed even beyond his own football players? The attitudes left behind by such things as black-jerseys-gate (the tip of the iceberg was even that?) will only be gone when a couple more Graduation Days go by.

So carry on, Coach Dodge, many of us are really glad you (and your long-term upside) are here in spite of what you have inherited--where talking the talk is what we too many times have always done best in Denton, Texas, America.

Again, replace a 30K seat stadium with a, uh, 30K seat stadium? :no: That level of thinking is one of our main problems at UNT, folks, just as DD recruiting "ONLY" to win the Sun Belt Conference was yet another which now has us sucking hind teat in even the.............Sun Belt Conference. And sorry, DD was given 5 years to reach .500 so I think Todd Dodge needs just a bit more time to (yes) get his players to do what will eventually make us forget DD Ball and no OOC wins over significant schools was ever even around Mean Green Country.