Going For It On 4th Down

gangrene · October 21, 2007

I'm sick of going for it on fourth down when we're within field goal range. Down 21-0 with a 4th and 16 at Troy's 28 yard line and we go for it?? About three drives later, we did it again at Troy's 23. And...because going for it on fourth down two times in one quarter wasn't enough...we went for a fourth and one at Troy's 16 with 2:02 to go in the first half. I don't like field goals any more than the next guy (and I know we don't have the world's greatest kicker) but a score is a score. 28-9 or even 28-6 is much better than 28-0.

This going for it all the time on fourth down is just stupid. It's reminiscent of Texas Tech's Playstation offensive play-calling of Mike Leach...and I can't stand Mike Leach.

Now, I don't mind going for it every now and then when we're at the fringe of being within field goal range, but we're foregoing some "chip shots". That's just not acceptable. We're 5-18 on fourth down conversions this year, but I couldn't tell you how many field goals we passed up to go for the first.

UNTFan23 · October 21, 2007

I think our propensity of going for it on 4th down so much shows a lack of confidence in the kicking game. With that said, I hope we're looking for a kicker to offer a scholarship to.

good_ken · October 21, 2007

I'm sick of going for it on fourth down when we're within field goal range. Down 21-0 with a 4th and 16 at Troy's 28 yard line and we go for it?? About three drives later, we did it again at Troy's 23. And...because going for it on fourth down two times in one quarter wasn't enough...we went for a fourth and one at Troy's 16 with 2:02 to go in the first half. I don't like field goals any more than the next guy (and I know we don't have the world's greatest kicker) but a score is a score. 28-9 or even 28-6 is much better than 28-0.
This going for it all the time on fourth down is just stupid. It's reminiscent of Texas Tech's Playstation offensive play-calling of Mike Leach...and I can't stand Mike Leach.
Now, I don't mind going for it every now and then when we're at the fringe of being within field goal range, but we're foregoing some "chip shots". That's just not acceptable. We're 5-18 on fourth down conversions this year, but I couldn't tell you how many field goals we passed up to go for the first.

We have missed extra point this this year; so what is your idea of a chip shot? It has to be shorter than an extra point.

Knowing all that, what would you call field goal range?

eulessismore · October 21, 2007

I think our propensity of going for it on 4th down so much shows a lack of confidence in the kicking game. With that said, I hope we're looking for a kicker to offer a scholarship to.

At this time, I'm advocating improving the kicking game by whatever means it takes. The kicking game has always been important, but this year's rule changes, not to mention the close games decided by field goals this year, make the kicking game increasingly important. Haven't some pro teams used "kicking consultants"? I'm generally opposed to consultants of all kinds, but if it would help, I think it should be considered; the sooner the better.

greenminer · October 21, 2007

It's good to know what you'd do on the playstation.

I also take comfort in Dodge not hiring random fans to make calls. What kind of precedent would that establish?

meangreendork · October 21, 2007

More than a few games were won at the foot of Nick "The Kick" Bazaldua. There's never a reason to not improve the kicking game.

OldTimer · October 21, 2007

We have missed extra point this this year; so what is your idea of a chip shot? It has to be shorter than an extra point.
Knowing all that, what would you call field goal range?

Field goal range this year has been been determined and limited to 36 yds from the kicker to the goal post...which is not acceptable to a Div 1 team...if I remember our kicker quit the team just before this season and we are using a non ship player who is doing his best. TD knows what he is doing.

stebo · October 21, 2007

36 is his long. He missed two in the ULM game (one at that exact range, and one even closer). I would say that for him to have a good chance to make it, we need to be on the 5. He has also missed a PAT and bounced another one in. All of his kicks do the same thing, go right. And they do not have the distance. When he did tiehis best of 36, it was all the way to the right, barely inside the posts, and it just barely made it over. That was when we were on the 19 yard line. We had 3 times when we were inside of a normal kicker's FG range last night and were forced to go for it on 4th down instead of kicking. Two more times we were in the range of any exeptionally gfood kicker. Lets say that we just had a good kicker, not an exceptionally bad kicker... We could have converted 3 of those to 9 points, add on the touchdown and we have 16. At that point in the game it would have been 28 to 16 and we would have been "in" the game.

The other killer to our losss - special teams. We gave up 14 points for kicks/punts run back. Take those two ran back TD's away and we are at 16-14, our lead. Then momentum would be with us and maybe just maybe, our OL would have woken up from the NAP that they were taking all of yesterday.

I am not saying that we should have beaten Troy. To me, Troy is a legitimate top 30 team. Hell, they beat the living shit out of Okie State and they are currently #30 in the Sags. I am just saying that those problems (special team, OL, kicker, kicker, kicker, and OL) (Yes, i repeated myself on purpose a few times)... all need to be adjusted/recruited or we will not be able to hang with FAU, ASU, MUTS, or TROY - at least not for a long time. Then our wins will be against FIU, ULL, and ULM every year. That won't cut it, and I bet that Dodge is going to agree with us on this one. I am sure that he will right this ship... those are just some of the things that I see wrong with it.

Eagle1855 · October 21, 2007

36 is his long. He missed two in the ULM game (one at that exact range, and one even closer). I would say that for him to have a good chance to make it, we need to be on the 5. He has also missed a PAT and bounced another one in. All of his kicks do the same thing, go right. And they do not have the distance. When he did tiehis best of 36, it was all the way to the right, barely inside the posts, and it just barely made it over. That was when we were on the 19 yard line. We had 3 times when we were inside of a normal kicker's FG range last night and were forced to go for it on 4th down instead of kicking. Two more times we were in the range of any exeptionally gfood kicker. Lets say that we just had a good kicker, not an exceptionally bad kicker... We could have converted 3 of those to 9 points, add on the touchdown and we have 16. At that point in the game it would have been 28 to 16 and we would have been "in" the game.
The other killer to our losss - special teams. We gave up 14 points for kicks/punts run back. Take those two ran back TD's away and we are at 16-14, our lead. Then momentum would be with us and maybe just maybe, our OL would have woken up from the NAP that they were taking all of yesterday.
I am not saying that we should have beaten Troy. To me, Troy is a legitimate top 30 team. Hell, they beat the living shit out of Okie State and they are currently #30 in the Sags. I am just saying that those problems (special team, OL, kicker, kicker, kicker, and OL) (Yes, i repeated myself on purpose a few times)... all need to be adjusted/recruited or we will not be able to hang with FAU, ASU, MUTS, or TROY - at least not for a long time. Then our wins will be against FIU, ULL, and ULM every year. That won't cut it, and I bet that Dodge is going to agree with us on this one. I am sure that he will right this ship... those are just some of the things that I see wrong with it.

good breakdown well said...

like i said earlier, itsa a process. pieces are scattered, but once they all fall into place, we'll know what kind of team we really have, and i think we'll be just fine!

Edited October 21, 2007 by Eagle1855

eulesseagle · October 21, 2007

more coaches are going for it on 4th down. in this case senario UNT was behind and without much hope of winning.....however.....the UNT "D" could have staged one of the greatest comback victories in our history, who knows.

some of you people do not see the "big picture" as Old Timer has .... who has attended games since the 1930's or 1940's. Our current football staff have forgotten more than what some of you "arm chair" QB's will ever know, except on "Playstation."

let the experts (UNT coaching staff) do what they know how to do best....coach..... and you (arm chair qb's) do what you do best ( Playstation).

gangrene · October 21, 2007

I just love some of the great argumentative, rational statements some of "you people" come up with! :rolleyes:

For those of you that do not know, Mike Leach's offense has repeatedly been referred to as being analogous to Playstation. Making that statement does not implicate me as a Playstation player nor does it limit my understanding of the game of football to what one might learn from playing a video game.

It didn't take a genius to realize (after the first quarter) that we weren't going to beat Troy. "Settling" for field goals would have at least put some points on the board. Now, I will buy the argument that our kicker is suspect, at best...but he's not going to get any better kicking into a net all of the time.

Stebo - I agree with your post. I don't think there's any way this team could have beaten Troy, even with the seven turnovers. However, we shouldn't be happy with a blowout loss to Troy as some seem to be. A kicker with a long of 36 yards would be laughable if wasn't true and it wasn't our kicker. I can't help but think we could find someone within our student body that could kick better than that. Hell, USC even got one of their former kickers (Mario Danelo - RIP) as a walk-on. I also think that our kick-offs have been a big detriment to our defense because our opponents never have very far to go to score.

more coaches are going for it on 4th down. in this case senario UNT was behind and without much hope of winning.....however.....the UNT "D" could have staged one of the greatest comback victories in our history, who knows.
some of you people do not see the "big picture" as Old Timer has .... who has attended games since the 1930's or 1940's. Our current football staff have forgotten more than what some of you "arm chair" QB's will ever know, except on "Playstation."
let the experts (UNT coaching staff) do what they know how to do best....coach..... and you (arm chair qb's) do what you do best ( Playstation).

So what if "more coaches are going for it on fourth down"???

You sound like you have a real knowledgeable mind for football. I bet you played all the way up until 6th grade.

eulesseagle · October 21, 2007

gangrene-

really? Mike Leach copied his plays from playstation....?......now i know you are an informed and indepth expert.

logic will only tell you it is the other way around, einstein.

my posts have never hinted at me being nothing more than an informed fan instead of a quasi-expert like yourself or another expert in playstation.

stebo · October 21, 2007

Euless,

He is just chatting. I mean - come on, your solution is recruit lots of Tongins from Trinity! First of all, could they even fit into a team concept - secondly, our crime rate has finally gone down on the team! Let's not invite more thugs and criminals back onto the team just yet.

Steve Boedeker

Class of 96

By the way - While OT has foolowed the team for a long time, I wouldn't discount some of us either. I have followed NT football since I arrived on campus in 1992. Been to just about every home game, sat through some really bad football and watched some really good football. I have also been to about 50% of the road games over the years. That is 15 years of watching and following North Texas football. There are quite a few on here that can claim that. I was right there with Harry when he opened up the old Paradise forum, moved it to Rivals, then to here. I have watched 3 AD's come and go. I have watched 4 coaches - Parker, Simon, Dickey, and now Dodge come through town. I have watched NT run a Variable Offense, a West Coast offense, a Running attack offense, and now a spread offense. And I do not even have a Playstation with football on it. So my ideas come from my history with the program, not a video game.

I don't know how many people have the credentials of people like myself, FFRick, Harry, Jeff, Brett, Rob, SUMG, and our group. We have never left and then come back- we have been there through thick and thin. I know that there are great fans like Plumm that have had to take time off from the program due to his job or his digust - but our group of like 100 or so Paradise guy have been following this program for about 15 years straight together. People like FFRick and Evan have been following them even longer. I think we know a little bit about football. I don't even watch other teams play. So my knowledge is about NORTH TEXAS football. I do not watch pro football, it is corrupt. I do not like auto-bid BCS football, there is more money in it then the pros. I like watching North Texas and now the other Sun Belt teams. That is perfect football to me.

steve

eulesseagle · October 21, 2007

stebo-

i appreciate your comments but i have been attending NT games since 1966 and as a fan have endured a roller coaster of players, coaches and various schemes.

i have never stated, hinted or proposed recruiting criminals to the program but have only advocated being patient with who we have because as a fan Todd Dodge is the "REAL DEAL" for NT. T.D is not someone who will stick around for a year or two, not recruit anyone and bolt or get fired at the whim of the NT BOR because of various reasons that Old Timer, PMG, Silver Eagle and Buford Julip would know about and would give you "valued" insight.

my only point, which some of you, who claim to be "long time" watchers since 1992 is that, as fans, we have to be patient with the new schemes and play that TD is bringing to UNT. Some of you who "think" they speak for the majority only have a knee jerk reaction for a solution.

let me remind you of some coaches who had losing seasons in their first couple of years before they built winning programs.

V.Lombardi, B. Wilkerson, H.Fry, T.Landry, J. Johnson, T.Dodge and i could probably name a few more but you know where i am going.

Let me remind some of you that Playstation does not equal reality. Reality only equals reality. Todd Dodge is the REAL DEAL so be patient.

stebo · October 21, 2007

Again, I agree with you 100%. Again, I do not own a freaking Playstation!

eulesseagle · October 21, 2007

stebo-

i am glad we are on the same page and i dont own a playstation either.

best regards.

Green Mean · October 21, 2007

I think our propensity of going for it on 4th down so much shows a lack of confidence in the kicking game. With that said, I hope we're looking for a kicker to offer a scholarship to.

I sure you are right UNTFan23 but dont you think that by doing that it is killing his confidence even more?