Is Tcu Really Happy Being In The Mwc?

[PlummMeanGreen]

I haven't been over at Frog Fan Forum in a long time to read their thoughts, so I don't know if the Frogs are liking their MWC co-existance or not. It might be more a thing with TCU of: "Be in any league than with their former SWC foes" which I think TCU officials saw an advantage in distancing themselves from athletically.

[GreenFlag]

What I have noticed is that I haven't much lately. I always have an interest in the local teams. I always wish the froggies the best and the ponies the worst. The MWC is clearly a better conference, but I wonder as well if is the best fit for them. CUSA sure has slipped further than I thought it could but CUSA with TCU is a different story.

Here are some questions I have:

Has it helped their recruiting?

Is attendance up?

Is the increased cost worth what they are getting?

I just don't hear the buzz around them like I used to. I don't see them on TV like I used to. Maybe that crazy MWC TV package has something to do with it. This college football fan just doesn't notice as much.

[SUMG]

What I have noticed is that I haven't much lately. I always have an interest in the local teams. I always wish the froggies the best and the ponies the worst. The MWC is clearly a better conference, but I wonder as well if is the best fit for them. CUSA sure has slipped further than I thought it could but CUSA with TCU is a different story.

Here are some questions I have:

Has it helped their recruiting?

Is attendance up?

Is the increased cost worth what they are getting?

I just don't hear the buzz around them like I used to. I don't see them on TV like I used to. Maybe that crazy MWC TV package has something to do with it. This college football fan just doesn't notice as much.

A few other things:

They have some of their games on their own network, MTN (or something like that). Anyway, it's not picked up by DirecTV and most cable systems. (not sure about Dish).

Also, I think, for TV....this is the second year in a row, where the Frogs have three Thursday night games. Personally, I would hate that many.

[UNTflyer]

Yes, I would prefer the Mountain West over C-USA.

[DeepGreen]

I think TCU's exposure has suffered since moving to the MWC. Granted, the MWC is higher profile than CUSA, the WAC, and certainly the Sun Belt. But has it really improved TCU's stature on the "big time college football" landscape? I just don't know.

What a shame that the Presidents of TCU, UTEP, SMU, Rice, North Texas, Tulsa, and Houston won't get together and say "enough" of this madness. That's the nucleuous of a new direction for everyone. Invite a couple of more universities that fit the footprint (Tulane, La Tech), create a new conference, and never look back.

[UNTflyer]

Which begs the question, What has been more harmful to TCU's exposure? Moving to the Mtn. or their failure to live up to overhyped expectations?

[Cowtown]

I think the move helped the Froggies, but I know they are frustrated with the TV package highlighted by the AFA game, when 5 days after the UT game they had to play in the mountains...on a channel that no one has.

What they need is a nice travel partner with a pretty, new 40,000 seat stadium.

They do have a big game on Thursday night against Utah. If TCU wins they still have a shot at the conf title.

Now by comparison, who among CUSA West would be as interesting a TV game to the national viewing public?

I think that is why they joined the MWC.

GMG

[Cr1028]

What a shame that the Presidents of TCU, UTEP, SMU, Rice, North Texas, Tulsa, and Houston won't get together and say "enough" of this madness. That's the nucleuous of a new direction for everyone. Invite a couple of more universities that fit the footprint (Tulane, La Tech), create a new conference, and never look back.

SWC part 2? I like it!

[NorthTexasFan]

A view from a dueling UNT fan and TCU fan.

The reason no one is noticing TCU these days is because for one, they aren't winning this year. They're looking at 4 or 5 losses this year and that doesn't equal time in the national spotlight. Another thing is, defence won't garner you attention. My dad and I have gone to many, many TCU games over the last 10 years or so, and we've seen this firsthand. Patterson places such an emphasis on the defensive side of the ball, and the offense doesn't get noticed at all. It makes the games boring most of the time, by the way. That being said, I think the MWC is where TCU needs to be. The MWC gives them a platform in competition, from where the CUSA was at, even though the public won't see most of their games.

P.S. That's why I'm glad UNT has a new regime. The offensive scheme is much more exciting.

[Smitty]

I've seen some ads on TV the last few days complaining that DirecTV and Dish do not carry the Mountain West games and urging people to call DirecTV and Dish and demand that they carry those broadcasts.

A new Southwest Conference would be a tremendous idea. It would benefit all schools in reduced travel, increased media coverage, increased attendance, and stronger rivalries.

[NTPhiKap99]

SWC part 2? I like it!

Is it really time for another ideal conference thread?

[H-towngreen]

Is it really time for another ideal conference thread?

Yes, it is. Would this conference not be beneficial to all?

[GreenBat]

I've seen some ads on TV the last few days complaining that DirecTV and Dish do not carry the Mountain West games and urging people to call DirecTV and Dish and demand that they carry those broadcasts.

A new Southwest Conference would be a tremendous idea. It would benefit all schools in reduced travel, increased media coverage, increased attendance, and stronger rivalries.

But it will never happen. Too many egos involved for it to work. Travel cost and regional rivalaries are just two of the reasons it should happen. But the arrogance of TCU, SMU, Coogar Hi and U Take Em Points having to stoop to being in a conference with a lowly directional school that is close to them makes since to them. I don't understand How.

TCU has to go to four of these stadiums every year (Air Force, BYU, Colorado State, New Mexico, San Diego State, Nevada-Las Vegas, Utah, Wyoming) and the other the other four are at home (Air Force, BYU, Colorado State, New Mexico, San Diego State, Nevada-Las Vegas, Utah, Wyoming). Those are really interesting teams that make my football pats go wild.

It makes even less since for SMU, Rice, Coogar Hi and U Take Em Points want to stay in CUSA, where they play Three out of state dierctional schools (East Carolina, Southern Miss, Central Florida), a team who's most noteable alum is a great wide receiver, but a losey human (Marshall), A school that is known more for its basketball coach and loosing to the MUTS (Memphis). A school that is still trying to recover from Katrina (Tulane), a school that is Jeckll and Hyde in its attendance and wins (Tulsa) and a team (Alabama-Birmingham) that is not sure what it wants its identity to be.

Not sure a new SWC would work, but it would just make too much sense not to try it.

[NTPhiKap99]

Yes, it is. Would this conference not be beneficial to all?

I agree a new SWC would be amazing but we talk about it 10 times a year. We normally always come up with the same teams all within 500 miles of home but it still remains a dream.

[THE CLAW]

Is it really time for another ideal conference thread?

How about The Lone Star conference? North Texas, Houston, Rice, TCU, SMU, UTEP, and ______ I know Midwestern State U. is a D-II program but they are a good D-II program.

I don't think Baylor would leave the Big 12.

After I typed all of that I found out that D-2 has a Lone Star Conference and I don't feel like starting over.

[PlummMeanGreen]

I think the move helped the Froggies, but I know they are frustrated with the TV package highlighted by the AFA game, when 5 days after the UT game they had to play in the mountains...on a channel that no one has.

What they need is a nice travel partner with a pretty, new 40,000 seat stadium.

They do have a big game on Thursday night against Utah. If TCU wins they still have a shot at the conf title.

Now by comparison, who among CUSA West would be as interesting a TV game to the national viewing public?

I think that is why they joined the MWC.

GMG

Do we need a 40,000 seat stadium now? Probably not this very minute...

Can we afford a 40,000 stadium now? Probably not at the moment, that is, until Mr. Big Donor arrives on his white horse.

Would 40,000 allow us to aim higher than CUSA and open up other BCS possibilities as well? Most likely it would, and that is one reason (as Cowtown suggests) that we need a 40,000 seat stadium. To gain any semblance of some kind of (public relations and statewide perception) edge over all the other former SWC schools & UTEP...UNT is just going to have to go the extra mile at all times and for us at this time in our history, that means a larger stadium than all of the rest of the aforementioned--IMHO.

I cannot think of any other way we gain such an immediate edge over the old SWC schools since we know how long it takes to change our own state's citizen's usual perceptions of our university, ie, former teacher's college, great music school, commuter school, all the same ol' stuff in other words).

So I agree, cowtown, 40K might do more for our school in more ways than one and than many of our best alums might ever possibly dream what it could.

GMG!

Edited October 17, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

I don't think that TCU is hurting from being a member of the MWC but I also don't think that they'd admit that they would prefer to be elsewhere (other than Big XII) even if it were so. They play some good teams but it seems that only Brigham Young and Air Force have a following to Fort Worth. Not being on television in this area may begin to tell on recruiting in the future. And, as someone observed, they're not the most exciting team to watch these days. They need another LT badly.

Even though the Mountain West has better teams, I would still prefer CUSA. There are no schools within a day's drive; that is, you'd have to stay two nights on the road for any trip unless you had drivers taking turns and driving straight through. At least most are at or near a fairly major airport so flying would not be impossible.

Now the revival of the Southwest Conference would be a godsend for us and I don't know that it would hurt any of the schools that Deep proposed; in fact, it should be a plus for most. Southern Miss and Memphis might draw o.k. for the Texas colleges but I believe that North Texas and Louisiana Tech would draw better than East Carolina, Marshall, Central Florida, and UAB. Further, if TCU can dominate that conference, then they should make even more with a sure bowl bid, less travel expense, more television exposure, and no loss in attendance.

Who would be the losers in such an alliance? All nine would have greatly reduced travel costs, several should experience substantial attendance increases, and the league would dominate two large markets (DFW and Houston) where advertising should be easier to sell due to the regionality of the conference.

In the past, I would've just tossed it off as wishful thinking but, if Todd Dodge can right the North Texas ship, he just might be the catalyst to making this happen. The two keys as I see it are TCU and North Texas. TCU would have to realize that they will NOT be a part of the BCS, nor are they likely to dominate a conference with BYU and Utah. That they would profit more by being a big fish in a smaller pond than being an outsider amongst a group that has stood together for 30 years and caused the breakup of the WAC. North Texas will have to prove that they can actually bolster the conference with competitive teams in all of the sports. We cannot be a hanger-on; we must be a contributor. Right now, we're not that good.

That's it. If TCU can become the main factor in the alignment of a new conference, then I believe that the rest would follow. If not, then Southern Miss and/or Memphis would have to be approached and the situation becomes more doubtful. In either case, North Texas must carry their weight to be included.

[Guest Aquila_Viridis]

What a shame that the Presidents of TCU, UTEP, SMU, Rice, North Texas, Tulsa, and Houston won't get together and say "enough" of this madness. That's the nucleuous of a new direction for everyone. Invite a couple of more universities that fit the footprint (Tulane, La Tech), create a new conference, and never look back.

Hopefully the right people will realize that North Texas, riding atop the Metroplex, has so much potential for exciting and explosive growth, that the above scenario would be a wasted opportunity. Even UH does not come close in potential. If you're going to invest in something, you've got to look forward, and I don't see much in store for those other programs. Besides, such a little conference would be inevitably crushed by the big ones. In fact, I don't see much in store for most of the members of the MWC and CUSA.

Eventually our state will have to stop strangling the flow of money for public higher education to the Metroplex. There has been too much growth in the region immediately near NT for it to continue. Take a look at the satellite/aerial images on maps.live.com or maps.google.com and see the vast impression of the new homes and businesses north of Dallas. I'm thankful for the resources that NT does receive, but NT does not receive its fair share as compared to UT and A&M. That can't continue. North Texas HAS TO grow significantly and be elevated in the status of its academic programs. When that occurs there will be no comparison to the other schools on that proposed list above. I'm not saying that the status of NT's academic programs would be above TCU or Rice, but that the type of athletic program that such a university would produce would be something that the others could not match.

[GrandGreen]

In the past, I would've just tossed it off as wishful thinking but, if Todd Dodge can right the North Texas ship, he just might be the catalyst to making this happen. The two keys as I see it are TCU and North Texas. TCU would have to realize that they will NOT be a part of the BCS, nor are they likely to dominate a conference with BYU and Utah. That they would profit more by being a big fish in a smaller pond than being an outsider amongst a group that has stood together for 30 years and caused the breakup of the WAC. North Texas will have to prove that they can actually bolster the conference with competitive teams in all of the sports. We cannot be a hanger-on; we must be a contributor. Right now, we're not that good.

Slight disagreement, I don't think NT would a hanger-on and in fact is already on a par with Rice, Tulsa, SMU, UTEP, and Houston. These teams are far from being dominating in anything. TCU would be nice, but they are going to have to fall a long ways before they would even consider such an alignment. Add Arkansas State, ULL, and Tulane and you would have a very nice nine team regional conference.

[gksmith]

Let's face it. The TCU move was a lateral move...maybe even a step backwards.

C-USA goes to a lot more bowl games then MWC. I think it was a bad move for them to bail on the C-USA.

[PlummMeanGreen]

I don't think that TCU is hurting from being a member of the MWC but I also don't think that they'd admit that they would prefer to be elsewhere (other than Big XII) even if it were so. They play some good teams but it seems that only Brigham Young and Air Force have a following to Fort Worth. Not being on television in this area may begin to tell on recruiting in the future. And, as someone observed, they're not the most exciting team to watch these days. They need another LT badly.

Even though the Mountain West has better teams, I would still prefer CUSA. There are no schools within a day's drive; that is, you'd have to stay two nights on the road for any trip unless you had drivers taking turns and driving straight through. At least most are at or near a fairly major airport so flying would not be impossible.

Now the revival of the Southwest Conference would be a godsend for us and I don't know that it would hurt any of the schools that Deep proposed; in fact, it should be a plus for most. Southern Miss and Memphis might draw o.k. for the Texas colleges but I believe that North Texas and Louisiana Tech would draw better than East Carolina, Marshall, Central Florida, and UAB. Further, if TCU can dominate that conference, then they should make even more with a sure bowl bid, less travel expense, more television exposure, and no loss in attendance.

Who would be the losers in such an alliance? All nine would have greatly reduced travel costs, several should experience substantial attendance increases, and the league would dominate two large markets (DFW and Houston) where advertising should be easier to sell due to the regionality of the conference.

In the past, I would've just tossed it off as wishful thinking but, if Todd Dodge can right the North Texas ship, he just might be the catalyst to making this happen. The two keys as I see it are TCU and North Texas. TCU would have to realize that they will NOT be a part of the BCS, nor are they likely to dominate a conference with BYU and Utah. That they would profit more by being a big fish in a smaller pond than being an outsider amongst a group that has stood together for 30 years and caused the breakup of the WAC. North Texas will have to prove that they can actually bolster the conference with competitive teams in all of the sports. We cannot be a hanger-on; we must be a contributor. Right now, we're not that good.

That's it. If TCU can become the main factor in the alignment of a new conference, then I believe that the rest would follow. If not, then Southern Miss and/or Memphis would have to be approached and the situation becomes more doubtful. In either case, North Texas must carry their weight to be included.

Good oberservations, Jack...

Whatever UNT does, we will have to do it on a bigger or more grandiose scale than the former SWC schools have done on their own (of late), whether that be (among other things) proving to them our real committment to climb up the NCAA D1-A ladder (a la Boise State and South Florida) by doing just that, getting Top 25 rankings as soon as we can.

We cannot join any of that former SWC/UTEP group just to be "one of the boys" (so to speak) because if we do that, then we come up at the rear of that group of schools as we did before or after our bowl games. (Did a bowl game have CUSA busting their butts trying to get us in with them in their league; seems I recall A DMN quote from the SMU prez suggesting how La Tech would be such a good CUSA fit). So see what we're up against even with that? YET..........if we think we can come into CUSA as just "one of the boys," then the reality of the situation will rear its ugly head (once again) and...................we will (once again) just keep on talking about this sujbect. We are all pretty good talkers, now aren't we?

Right now, Troy U, with a very nice "all but new" stadium for their sized school "enrollment-wise" (and the sparsely populated area they're located) have jumped to the front of the SBC line, and beating some of the OOC schools we've only dreamed about beating even during bowl years, will probably keep them toward the top of the SBC for awhile now.

Building a true, legitimate NCAA D1-A football stadium out at the Mean Green Village will not only be so vital to UNT for an upward bound future in NCAA D1-A, but moreso even in our own state of Texas. Whatever we buld now, will be with us "capacity-wise" for a very long time. We can talk expansion of a "smallish built" stadium till the cows come home, but don't most of us who've been around this scene for a very long time know that that would probably not happen for--a very long time?

35-40,000 as our new stadium's initial size is more important than I think we can really realize (as we all allow ourselves to look past yesterday, today but more important project ourselves to what a future UNT in a Denton County with close to 1,000,000 citizens will be like).

Edited October 17, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[UNTLifer]

Let's face it. The TCU move was a lateral move...maybe even a step backwards.

C-USA goes to a lot more bowl games then MWC. I think it was a bad move for them to bail on the C-USA.

I disagree that the MWC is a lateral move from CUSA, but it is/was a move down with respect to exposure.

[Cowtown]

MWC is leaps and bounds ahead of CUSA. They add Boisie and they are on par w or better than the Big E.

Would TCU have become the media darling beating up Tulsa, Tulane & Rice every year? No. It takes victories at Utah & BYU to garner the nations attention.

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

Slight disagreement, I don't think NT would a hanger-on and in fact is already on a par with Rice, Tulsa, SMU, UTEP, and Houston. These teams are far from being dominating in anything. TCU would be nice, but they are going to have to fall a long ways before they would even consider such an alignment. Add Arkansas State, ULL, and Tulane and you would have a very nice nine team regional conference.

From our perspective, you are absolutely right, Grand. However, in spite of 42 years in Division 1-A (and whatever it was called or is called) we are still thought of by some as not quite up to par. Rice, SMU, and Houston are more glamorous because of their Southwest Conference days and Tulsa and UTEP are already in that same conference. Because of that perceived stigma, we have to be a little better. Potential is nice but it doesn't pay today's rent. The fact that all five already play three 'directional' universities within their conference should help us immensely.

Personally, I'd like to have Louisiana and Arkansas State in this proposed conference but I'm leery that there would be enough support from the others to make that happen. Deep also mentioned Tulane and I agree. He included La Tech, which would be an easier sell, and I have to agree with him on that as well.

[agw0038]

i think the people in charge over there at TCU did a wise thing moving out of CUSA and into the M-DUB-C. once the frogs realized they were so much better than everybody else in CUSA they had to move. Honestly the move was made based on the anticipation that the frogs program would continue to grow and a possible BCS birth was right around the corner. I also questioned why TCU didnt try harder for the Big 12. It all makes sense now. There are very few schools as small as Texas Christian with a football program like Texas Christian's. Infact, TCU is an oddity. It continues to have competitve football teams in a recruiting market where they are 3rd or 4th at best. For TCU to be successful it is very crucial that they do not have to directly compete with the big boys for recruiting(UT,OU,A&M). Moving to the MW opened up their recruiting range and really only two of the big boys back at home can compete with it. I do think they are happy with MW. They have their issues with scheduling but what school and head coach doesnt? If they are a little disgruntled it is only because there present campaign has by no means lived up to its hype.