Us Vs Them

untcampbell · October 15, 2007

I didn't want to attach this to FFR or the Jamison (can't remember which seemingly random letters and numbers his post name is) post because I think neither thread helps this program move forward.

If someone in my company's management team is, IMHO, bringing down the boss...if I like and trust my boss enough, I go discuss MY OPINION with my boss.

He can take it or leave it, but if I believe in my boss, I have to think one of two things:

1) Either he knows something I don't and my boss will be fine without my advice

2) He will handle the situation as he sees fit

It really is up to him. In this case, I will trust Dodge to best deal with his team, his management team, his career. Every action I have seen from this coach tells me he is highly motivated to be successful here, to be the best possible coach and leader he can be and to win his ASSSSS (in my best Jim Rome voice). I trust the man to make the decisions he feels best accomplish his goals.

I am constantly amazed at how quickly it takes this "fan" base to implode. As a community service, please note the opponent this week is TROY, not the DC. Man, the voy board should have never been shut down.

As someone who chooses to see a future far more bright than I can remember in my 27 years following the team, I am,

Scott Campbell

Edited October 15, 2007 by untcampbell

untbowler · October 15, 2007

I didn't want to attach this to FFR or the Jamison (can't remember which seemingly random letters and numbers his post name is) post because I think neither thread helps this program move forward.
If someone in my company's management team is, IMHO, bringing down the boss...if I like and trust my boss enough, I go discuss MY OPINION with my boss.
He can take it or leave it, but if I believe in my boss, I have to think one of two things:
1) Either he knows something I don't and my boss will be fine without my advice
2) He will handle the situation as he sees fit
It really is up to him. In this case, I will trust Dodge to best deal with his team, his management team, his career. Every action I have seen from this coach tells me he is highly motivated to be successful here, to be the best possible coach and leader he can be and to win his ASSSSS (in my best Jim Rome voice). I trust the man to make the decisions he feels best accomplish his goals.
I am constantly amazed at how quickly it takes this "fan" base to implode. As a community service, please note the opponent this week is TROY, not the DC. Man, the voy board should have never been shut down.
As someone who chooses to see a future far more bright than I can remember in my 27 years following the team, I am,
Scott Campbell

I will again take exception to the post. I have been one of them many to not be happy with the DC, I have tried not to call for his head but rather show us something other than giving up 50+ points a game and 600 yds. Saturday Night was a good start, but you can not fault the fans for expecting our defense to be our strength after last year and the many returning starters. Yes there is a new scheme but the Juniors/Seniors also played in the scheme then. A new scheme should NOT be a license for the DC and other Defensive Coaches to be handed a get out of criticism card for 3 years. The defense should be the strongest part of this years team, but fior one reason or another has to be considered a disappointment. We adequate play from the defense in Games 1-5 we easily could be 4-2 right now with a 3-0 mark in the Belt. So I am tired of people calling for the DC head on a platter, but also tired of the fans who think everything is just Shang-ra-la right now with the defense. some of us need to put the Haterade down and others need to put down the green kool-aid.

Edited October 15, 2007 by untbowler

yyz28 · October 15, 2007

...or the Jamison

Thanks for getting my name right... most want to stick an "E" in there somewhere...

As a community service, please note the opponent this week is TROY, not the DC. As someone who chooses to see a future far more bright than I can remember in my 27 years following the team, I am,
Scott Campbell

Scott, don't take my strong disappointment in this DC as me saying I don't think the future is bright. I still believe, and have no reason to believe otherwise, that we are on the brink of greatness, and that Todd Dodge is going to be the best thing that ever happend to UNT athletics. ...and I will be rooting for our team against any foe. I was doing so when I was angry with DD. Just because a single fan or a part of the fan base is angry with a coach or the coaching staff doesn't mean we don't support the team or the school. To imply otherwise is silly. I'm angry because I DO CARE - Very much - about the success of this team.

...and there is a BIG difference between the goings on of a private company and a DI football program. Coaches are paid to perform. When they don't, fans and sports writers are going to be critical of them. I don't think the general public cares if Bob Johnson in accounting isn't easy to work with.

Smitty · October 15, 2007

I still believe, and have no reason to believe otherwise, that we are on the brink of greatness, and that Todd Dodge is going to be the best thing that ever happend to UNT athletics.

And yet you are calling for the head of the man Todd Dodge hired as defensive coordinator?

Everyone needs to turn down the volume on the hyperbole - both positive and negative. Year One is not the time for firings or Hall of Fame inductions.

Edited October 15, 2007 by Smitty

GoMeanGreen1999 · October 15, 2007

And yet you are calling for the head of the man Todd Dodge hired as defensive coordinator?
Everyone needs to turn down the volume on the hyperbole - both positive and negative. Year One is not the time for firings or Hall of Fame inductions.

Completely agree. People need to chill. If you didn't believe this was going to take time, then you are fooling yourself.

yyz28 · October 15, 2007

Completely agree. People need to chill. If you didn't believe this was going to take time, then you are fooling yourself.

The complaint isn't that this is going to take time.

...the complaint is that for 5 games we saw ZERO improvement on the D side of the ball, while seeing marked improvement on the other side of the ball week to week. That is the issue that some of us have. We could be 0-6, but if we were seeing weekly improvement all around, I wouldn't be saying a word - most wouldn't. But

Now, this week was a blip for a couple of quarters, I'll admit that. ...but then back to the same at the end of the game. I'm not looking to beat OU or Arkansas. I AM looking for the D to do their part when the offense is putting up record-breaking performances in games we should be competitive in. I can't get over the fact that THIS GROUP OF PLAYERS were the #64 ranked D last year, now they are #118. I also can't get over the comment by the coaching staff that the Defense would be the strength of the team this year.

The offensive performance we've seen this year teamed with the #64 defense in the nation would have resulted in a current record of 4-2. That is what is driving so many nuts.

ADLER · October 15, 2007

QUOTE(untcampbell @ Oct 15 2007, 11:39 AM)
...or the Jamison

Thanks for getting my name right... most want to stick an "E" in there somewhere...

I'm not a vagrant! This is my point!

I know somebody here. I met him on a train. His name is....

His name is....

James.... No.

His name is....

James Josephson. No, no!

James Lawrence. Lawrence. Lawrence.

Lawrence F--

Lawrence Fells. Lawrence Fings.

Forrest Lawrenceton.

His name is James Jestenthen.

Lawrence Jesterton.

-Lawrence Jamison? -Yes.

Yes! Yes.

We're like this!

OK, name that film.

yyz28 · October 15, 2007

Nice Avatar Hint... Dirty Rotton Scoundrels

Good flick.

TIgreen01 · October 15, 2007

The complaint isn't that this is going to take time.
...the complaint is that for 5 games we saw ZERO improvement on the D side of the ball, while seeing marked improvement on the other side of the ball week to week. That is the issue that some of us have. We could be 0-6, but if we were seeing weekly improvement all around, I wouldn't be saying a word - most wouldn't. But
Now, this week was a blip for a couple of quarters, I'll admit that. ...but then back to the same at the end of the game. I'm not looking to beat OU or Arkansas. I AM looking for the D to do their part when the offense is putting up record-breaking performances in games we should be competitive in. I can't get over the fact that THIS GROUP OF PLAYERS were the #64 ranked D last year, now they are #118. I also can't get over the comment by the coaching staff that the Defense would be the strength of the team this year.
The offensive performance we've seen this year teamed with the #64 defense in the nation would have resulted in a current record of 4-2. That is what is driving so many nuts.

So you saw improvement in this defense THIS week and STILL posted a "Fire Mendoza" diatribe?! From the outside it just looks hot-headed. Take a step back and think things through....that's all the other posters are asking.

For the record, there were improvements from week to week on the defensive side of the ball. Tackling improved on a weekly basis after the OU and SMU games, with the obvious exception being LaLa---where we did pretty well for the most part but allowed 3 big plays that killed us. Go back and rewatch that game if you don't believe it. Arkansas was just a mess of a game where we lost our confidence early and it snow-balled on us. Either way, there have been signs on BOTH sides of the ball that things were being tweaked and improved from week-week. The RESULTS were just not there on D to prove it, though and it was frustrating to watch after seeing so much improvement on D last year and O this year....

ADLER · October 15, 2007

Nice Avatar

"Johnson, Navin R."

Random son of a bitch,

typical run-of-the-mill bastard.

Eagle-96 · October 15, 2007

My question to you YYZ is:

If the defense finishes the season ranked 65-75 in the nation in total defense will you be calling for Mendoza's head? If your answer is no, then why don't you just give him the full season to see where this thing hashes out. If your answer is yes, than I just don't know what to say to you.

yyz28 · October 15, 2007

So you saw improvement in this defense THIS week and STILL posted a "Fire Mendoza" diatribe?!

I saw major improvement in the play of the players, but after a couple of quarters, I saw the same schemes that haven't worked so far come back and come closer to costing us this win than anyone wants to admit.

From the outside it just looks hot-headed. Take a step back and think things through....that's all the other posters are asking.

I hear ya... and I hear the rest of the board - this is why I asked for my thread to be deleted. That's why I removed the link in my sig.

For the record, there were improvements from week to week on the defensive side of the ball. Tackling improved on a weekly basis after the OU and SMU games, with the obvious exception being LaLa---where we did pretty well for the most part but allowed 3 big plays that killed us. Go back and rewatch that game if you don't believe it. Arkansas was just a mess of a game where we lost our confidence early and it snow-balled on us. Either way, there have been signs on BOTH sides of the ball that things were being tweaked and improved from week-week. The RESULTS were just not there on D to prove it, though and it was frustrating to watch after seeing so much improvement on D last year and O this year....

I respectfully disagree. The big play is what has been hurting us from the beginning. We are slow, but play a soft "let 'em catch it, then we'll tackle them" defense. We have played that type of defense in 22 of 24 quarters played so far, and 2 of those quarters are the most recent quarters played. The players may have improved their skills as they have played and gained experience, but our defensive schemes still don't work. We MADE ULM play outside of their normal gameplan, and once they started doing so, they lit us up. Had they had a passing gameplan, we would have lost this game - not because of the players, but because of the Defensive scheme. I was VERY happy to see some blitzing, and the line played WONDERFULLY, against a GOOD running game, but anyone could pass against this defense. That's why SMU beat us. That is why we lost the first two conference games. That is why we are not 4 and 2.

Edited October 15, 2007 by yyz28

yyz28 · October 15, 2007

My question to you YYZ is:
If the defense finishes the season ranked 65-75 in the nation in total defense will you be calling for Mendoza's head? If your answer is no, then why don't you just give him the full season to see where this thing hashes out. If your answer is yes, than I just don't know what to say to you.

My answer is No. To do that, the defense will have to play as the 30th or so best D in the country for the rest of the season. If the guy does that, I was flat ass wrong, and will say so.

...I think that is next to impossible considering how the averages work out. IF we wrap up the season with some wins that come as a result of stopping some teams who pass the football, I'll back off. I just don't seriously see that happening, and I'd rather see a transition happen now, that we are out of the hunt than later and have to hear another year of "Give the new coach some time, he just started."

...but hey, that's probably why I'm not a football coach.

TIgreen01 · October 15, 2007

I hear ya... and I hear the rest of the board - this is why I asked for my thread to be deleted. That's why I removed the link in my sig.

Ah....didn't see that you had deleted it when I first posted.

I respectfully disagree. The big play is what has been hurting us from the beginning. We are slow, but play a soft "let 'em catch it, then we'll tackle them" defense. We have played that type of defense in 22 of 24 quarters played so far, and 2 of those quarters are the most recent quarters played. The players may have improved their skills as they have played and gained experience, but our defensive schemes still don't work. We MADE ULM play outside of their normal gameplan, and once they started doing so, they lit us up. Had they had a passing gameplan, we would have lost this game - not because of the players, but because of the Defensive scheme. I was VERY happy to see some blitzing, and the line played WONDERFULLY, against a GOOD running game, but anyone could pass against this defense. That's why SMU beat us. That is why we lost the first two conference games. That is why we are not 4 and 2.

I can't argue that big plays have been killing us. I don't think it's necessarily the pass that beat us before, but missed tackles and confusion---at least in the conference games. I was THRILLED to hear that Robertson was going to get more playing time and that Gilmore would be out there on a more regular basis. For some reason or another, some of our more experienced guys have struggled in this new D. Also, Monroe really only started moving the ball once we subbed out the starting D....so I think it's hard to say that our schemes are definitely at fault in that type of situation. The game was in control and we probably let up on the throttle a little bit. I just really get the feeling that this team has had a hard time learning how to win and finish an opponent over the last 3 seasons.

Got5onIt · October 15, 2007

Everyone needs to turn down the volume on the hyperbole - both positive and negative. Year One is not the time for firings or Hall of Fame inductions.

Best post I've read this entire week.

You know, I haven't seen SLCoutsider post in a long while. I wonder if we've run him out of town. :lol: He may not be "used" to the negativity after all those years of championship football. :lol:

Edited October 15, 2007 by Got5onIt

Vizza4QB · October 15, 2007

Everyone needs to turn down the volume on the hyperbole - both positive and negative. Year One is not the time for firings or Hall of Fame inductions.

I admit me and Smitty have not seen eye to eye on many subjects on this board especially QB. I have to say he is right on this one. Do i strong feelings about the coaching staff sure i do and from what i have seen so far the defense has been a disappointment but then i realize its game 5. These guys need some time. Just like a rookie moving to the NFL. Most of the these coaches need some time to adjust.... no one in the hall of fame and no one job less. The defense made a huge stride this week and the offense took a step back. Overall we just need to sit back and see how this season plays out.

Also Give it time we watch Dickey for three years sucka nd we lived with it.

SMITTY nice post for a change

No offense just messing with you

yyz28 · October 15, 2007

I just really get the feeling that this team has had a hard time learning how to win and finish an opponent over the last 3 seasons.

Well, there is probably something to that, my friend.

KingDL1 · October 15, 2007

For those who want to bellyache about the yards we have given up. We are not that good but these teams are doing it to some good teams also.

Before last weekend.

Rank Name........ Ydspgm

8...... Arkansas... 507.6

11.... Oklahoma.. 482.17

And as of this week TTech has played 7 games and is averaging 582 yards a game.

Bryan316 · October 15, 2007

Does anyone have a week-by-week ranking of our defense last year? I mean, what were we ranked after 6 games last year compared to six games this year? You can't keep quoting this "64th in the nation last year!" line if after the same amount of games last year we were the same 11x that we have been so far.

OldTimer · October 15, 2007

Ah....didn't see that you had deleted it when I first posted.
I can't argue that big plays have been killing us. I don't think it's necessarily the pass that beat us before, but missed tackles and confusion---at least in the conference games. I was THRILLED to hear that Robertson was going to get more playing time and that Gilmore would be out there on a more regular basis. For some reason or another, some of our more experienced guys have struggled in this new D. Also, Monroe really only started moving the ball once we subbed out the starting D....so I think it's hard to say that our schemes are definitely at fault in that type of situation. The game was in control and we probably let up on the throttle a little bit. I just really get the feeling that this team has had a hard time learning how to win and finish an opponent over the last 3 seasons.

It didn't help the defense that two starters from last year are just now in shape and starting to play at DE and CB (Gilmore and D. Green) , Wouldn't you think if Gilmore had played in the four earlier games he would have really helped the team, a kicker and safety from last years defense left the team (Loren and Woodward) and you've seen how GREAT the FG kicking is this year , that an experienced LB (Nwigwe() who was expect to start) expected to play...can't for legal problems, Didn't Shawn Early LB, Phillip Graves OLB, Sky Pruitt DE, Willie Ransom DE, graduate.....Yes we had some good returning Defensive players, but we obviously from the above are missing several. also ,,,,yet I keep hearing that last years defensive team was so good and now aren't performing. This is not last years team is what I am trying to bring out in the open...haven't heard any of this as PART of the reasons we aren't performing as well as last year.

KingDL1 · October 15, 2007

Does anyone have a week-by-week ranking of our defense last year? I mean, what were we ranked after 6 games last year compared to six games this year? You can't keep quoting this "64th in the nation last year!" line if after the same amount of games last year we were the same 11x that we have been so far.

We played a different competition level last year, this year so far has been much stronger competition when comparing those teams total offenses.

Some stats for the total offenses we played this year and last

Mean Green 93-98 · October 15, 2007

I hear ya... and I hear the rest of the board - this is why I asked for my thread to be deleted. That's why I removed the link in my sig.

Yyz, I appreciate your doing that. I've seen people get themselves into a corner and refuse to back off when it is obvious they need to.

meangreen2018 · October 15, 2007

I didn't want to attach this to FFR or the Jamison (can't remember which seemingly random letters and numbers his post name is) post because I think neither thread helps this program move forward.
If someone in my company's management team is, IMHO, bringing down the boss...if I like and trust my boss enough, I go discuss MY OPINION with my boss.
He can take it or leave it, but if I believe in my boss, I have to think one of two things:
1) Either he knows something I don't and my boss will be fine without my advice
2) He will handle the situation as he sees fit
It really is up to him. In this case, I will trust Dodge to best deal with his team, his management team, his career. Every action I have seen from this coach tells me he is highly motivated to be successful here, to be the best possible coach and leader he can be and to win his ASSSSS (in my best Jim Rome voice). I trust the man to make the decisions he feels best accomplish his goals.
I am constantly amazed at how quickly it takes this "fan" base to implode. As a community service, please note the opponent this week is TROY, not the DC. Man, the voy board should have never been shut down.
As someone who chooses to see a future far more bright than I can remember in my 27 years following the team, I am,
Scott Campbell

I agree. Just give Dodge some time. It's not like he doesn't know how to coach; HE WON FIVE STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS AT SLC!!!!

Edited October 15, 2007 by meangreen2018

HoustonEagle · October 15, 2007

And yet you are calling for the head of the man Todd Dodge hired as defensive coordinator?
Everyone needs to turn down the volume on the hyperbole - both positive and negative. Year One is not the time for firings or Hall of Fame inductions.

Agreed Smitty. Also, for a little perspective on how it can go the other direction. My guess is Notre Dame fans are not nearly as big on Charlie Weis now that they realize he is having trouble winning without Willinghams players. Evaluating a coaching staff should be done over seasons not games. Lets give the new employees a little more time before we make them walk the plank.

I am by no means against a little healthy discussion and critique of the team mind you.

GoMeanGreen1999 · October 15, 2007

The complaint isn't that this is going to take time.
...the complaint is that for 5 games we saw ZERO improvement on the D side of the ball, while seeing marked improvement on the other side of the ball week to week. That is the issue that some of us have. We could be 0-6, but if we were seeing weekly improvement all around, I wouldn't be saying a word - most wouldn't. But
Now, this week was a blip for a couple of quarters, I'll admit that. ...but then back to the same at the end of the game. I'm not looking to beat OU or Arkansas. I AM looking for the D to do their part when the offense is putting up record-breaking performances in games we should be competitive in. I can't get over the fact that THIS GROUP OF PLAYERS were the #64 ranked D last year, now they are #118. I also can't get over the comment by the coaching staff that the Defense would be the strength of the team this year.
The offensive performance we've seen this year teamed with the #64 defense in the nation would have resulted in a current record of 4-2. That is what is driving so many nuts.

Okay, I don't think I am disagreeing with you - I too have a hard time when there are zero changes from week to week, and I agree we went back to what were doing before in the previous games for the last part of the game. 31-7 looks a lot better than 31 - 21 for sure. I guess the problem I have with all of the negative talk on the DC is that I don't think he should be fired at this point in the season. Is his Defense bad - yes, it is horrible, but I still think you have to give him a season. Besides, even though we went back to what wasn't working, the defense made a significant degree of good play for at least 3 quarters, and that was the best I have seen them play this year.