Austin American Statesman

[StealthEagle84]

Interesting article on our athletic department and the differences between us and the big guys. It appeared on the front cover the Austin American Statesman today.

http://www.statesman.com/sports/content/sp...northtexas.html

Edited October 1, 2007 by StealthEagle84

[GoMeanGreen1999]

Interesting article on our athletic department and the differences between us and the big guys. It appeared on the front cover the Austin American Statesman today.

http://www.statesman.com/sports/content/sp...northtexas.html

Nice find. Also good pub being on the front page. I skimmed the article (will have to really read it tonight) and from what I read not too bad.

[FireFightnJoey]

Standing on a concrete patio outside his new $9.7 million athletics center, University of North Texas Athletics Director Rick Villarreal gazes south and sees a bright future — a 50,000-seat football stadium that he hopes will soon sprout from the gently rolling former fairway and propel the Mean Green into the ranks of the nation's elite teams.

I thought this would have sparked a whole new stadium thread ... amazing how many different numbers are thrown around ...

[Mean Green 93-98]

I thought this would have sparked a whole new stadium thread ... amazing how many different numbers are thrown around ...

Seriously . . . This should have provoked an epic Plumm-post with unprecedented font sizes and color variations.

[VideoEagle]

North Texas, which has grown from a commuter school to a sprawling campus of 34,000 students

Nice to see they do not consider us still a commuter school.

[Smitty]

The quote that caught my attention:

"The sad reality is you have the North Texases of the world trying to keep up and play a game they simply can't win," said David Ridpath, a professor of sports administration at Ohio University. "There's only so far they can go, and if they try to go as far as UT, they're going to lose, and their students are going to lose."

Hope he's wrong.

[Green Mean]

The Longhorn effect

As UT competes in the college sports stratosphere, schools like North Texas also pursue big athletics dreams — although with much smaller budgets.

Click-2-Listen

By Eric Dexheimer

AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF

Monday, October 01, 2007

Standing on a concrete patio outside his new $9.7 million athletics center, University of North Texas Athletics Director Rick Villarreal gazes south and sees a bright future — a 50,000-seat football stadium that he hopes will soon sprout from the gently rolling former fairway and propel the Mean Green into the ranks of the nation's elite teams.

"From the president to the board of regents, they've all made it very clear that there's no reason we can't have a nationally competitive program," he said.

No reason except money, that is. On a hot July day, the new athletics center, situated across Interstate 35 from the main campus north of Dallas, still had bare walls and an empty foyer. After moving in, the sports department ran out of money to add its decorations and trophy cases.

Like the University of Texas Longhorns, the Mean Green play in Division I-A with the NCAA's most competitive teams. Like UT, North Texas has high hopes for its football team. Both have powerhouse Oklahoma University on their schedules this year.

The similarities end there.

UT's athletics budget is $107 million this year. UNT's is $15 million. The Longhorns spend about $210,000 per student-athlete; the Mean Green, less than $40,000. UT's athletics department employs 260 — six times the size of UNT's.

The teams' financial statements also have very different bottom lines. UT is one of the most profitable programs in the country; North Texas is one of the least.

The fiscal gap between the two schools highlights the chasm between those universities where athletics is huge and everywhere else. And it's widening: UT's athletics budget is growing faster than UNT's.

How can these two schools compete on the field? They don't, really. The Longhorns have played the Mean Green twice in recent years, winning by a combined score of 121-7.

Despite such lopsided realities, North Texas and other schools continue to chase a dream of athletic eminence enjoyed by a handful of superpowers that play high-stakes leapfrog, jumping over one another to win bragging rights with the latest and best. After UT installed its $9 million high-definition football scoreboard and sound system, Texas A&M University quickly ordered up its own $12 million scoreboard package.

Less-wealthy wannabes are paying a high price, too. Texas Christian University more than doubled its football budget from 2003 to 2005, according to federal documents. Texas Tech University's athletics department burned through its financial reserves last year, partially because of its huge debt service from borrowing to improve sports facilities.

"The sad reality is you have the North Texases of the world trying to keep up and play a game they simply can't win," said David Ridpath, a professor of sports administration at Ohio University. "There's only so far they can go, and if they try to go as far as UT, they're going to lose, and their students are going to lose."

'Any place but Texas'

Studies disagree about the benefits that a high-profile, successful athletics program brings to a campus. Winning teams can attract students (mostly males), boost campus spirit and galvanize alumni. Though most prime-time sports programs lose money, the allure of having one remains powerful.

A 2004 Rice University study of its Division I-A athletics department found spiraling costs and a divide between the high academic standards set for regular students and those for athletes.

"As schools continue their struggle to remain competitive, the pressure to invest more and more in coaches and facilities drives up the price to play," the study noted, suggesting that the school consider dropping to a lower division.

Rice decided to stay in Division I-A, though it pledged to rein in costs. According to federal documents, however, the athletics budget jumped 20 percent from 2003 to 2005, mostly for football. The school is also completing a $23 million renovation of its basketball arena.

At North Texas, which has grown from a commuter school to a sprawling campus of 34,000 students, officials say they hope a nationally visible football program and new stadium will help the school win recognition as a top university. "The proposed stadium will be among the finest in the country," a fundraising brochure promises, "helping advance the respect and admiration this great academic institution so richly deserves."

"If this were any place but Texas, things would be different," deputy athletics director Hank Dickenson said. "But here, we got 5A high school teams with publicly funded stadiums as nice as ours."

A review of UNT's athletics budget, however, illustrates the paradox of building a competitive sports program with modest means. Winning costs money — which mediocre teams have trouble supplying.

The Mean Green earned repeated invitations to the New Orleans Bowl in the early 2000s, but for the past two seasons, the squad has posted losing records. That has taken a toll on ticket sales. And without the extra money from playing in bowl games, income dropped $600,000 from 2005 to 2006 — a significant loss for a team that overall earns less than $2 million a year.

In the past, the department sold basketball/football ticket packages in an effort to lure students to basketball games; when it separated them in 2005-06, men's basketball revenue dropped a third. (In 2006-07, for which financial data are not yet available, the team made the NCAA tournament.)

Athletics director Villarreal also cut the number of away games that the football team plays against big-time schools, typically powerhouses looking for an easy win. The games were lucrative, bringing in about $400,000 each. But they wreaked havoc on the players and the team's record.

The school's facilities, meanwhile, have been showing their age; maintenance costs jumped $500,000 from 2005 to 2006. The new athletics center nearly tripled the department's annual debt service, to $700,000.

In all, the North Texas athletics program's losses ballooned 50 percent last year. The Mean Green football team cost about twice what it earned; the basketball team cost about 61/2 times its revenue.

The university was forced to cover a $4.6 million deficit — on top of the $4.3 million subsidy that sports already receives from student fees.

"We're probably always going to run a deficit," said Mike Ashbaugh, associate athletics director for operations. "Until we get going."

Betting on the future

This year, UNT athletics is spending even more money in the hope that it will pay off later. It increased its marketing program by $100,000 and spent tens of thousands more hosting fundraising functions. Two new hires are chasing private donations for new facilities.

"We had a lot of people counting money, but no one out raising it," Villarreal said. The Mean Green Club now brings in about $500,000 a year — paltry by Longhorn Foundation standards, but several times more than five years ago. Hiring well-known high school football coach Todd Dodge has boosted season ticket sales 40 percent.

Villarreal said he hopes additional investments in basketball and football pay off, too. He has increased the men's recruiting budget for basketball and football. A new football apparel deal with Under Armour should eventually help the bottom line, although it will actually cost the department money while the Mean Green switch from New Balance gear.

At the same time, he is upgrading the sports complex to convince recruits that North Texas is a place to be taken seriously. The department has built 12 new facilities in the past four years.

The new athletics building has a hydrotherapy rehab room — just like the big schools — and gleaming new training and weight rooms. The new football locker room includes a players lounge with the now-standard large flat screen TVs. The foyer was finally decorated with trophies and other sports souvenirs.

The school also has new softball, soccer and tennis facilities. In 2004, UNT purchased the entire campus of a private school across I-35 from it. Since then, Villarreal has been transforming the old buildings into a "new" athletic campus, Mean Green Village.

A single-story schoolhouse is the new academic center (the old one was under the football stadium and leaked). The old gym was refloored and is now the women's volleyball center. A choral hall was transformed into an indoor golf practice room. The cafeteria will become the new basketball practice facility.

He has bigger plans, too, should the opportunity — and money — arise. The weed-choked softball field will become an indoor practice field. A baseball stadium and track and field complex will arise from empty lawns, and luxury suites will blossom in the Super Pit, the 35-year-old basketball arena in the center of campus. (He settled last year for a renovation of the basketball locker rooms and players lounges — 60-inch TV included.)

The capstone, of course, will be the new $60 million football stadium to replace the 56-year-old Fouts Field. Villarreal said he hopes to see construction under way by the end of the decade.

Yet he vows not to get too caught up in the athletics arms race. "We make sure our people get everything they need — though not everything they want," he said. "There won't have to be a logo every two feet."

edexheimer@statesman.com; 445-1774

[ADLER]

The quote that caught my attention:

Hope he's wrong.

He's wrong.

In the past decade schools like South Florida, and Central Florida have not only started programs, but have raised them to be competitive on a national scale.

The simple fact is SIZE DOES MATTER. When a school such as North Texas finally decides to make a committment, it will succeed as well.

UTSA has recently raised it's student athletic fee to the state maximum of $240 per student per semester. It seems like a lot, especially for a school that doesn't even offer the premier sport of football, but it's what UTEP students, administrators and regents have decided is necessary to help the university separate from the quagmire of 'smaller' schools that they have always been associated with. It's the type committment that South Florida had made, and one that Central Florida had made.

If North Texas were to make a similar commitment the football and basketball programs would contend for postseason play every year, revenue through donations and ticket sales would skyrocket, and facilities would be comperable to many of the other large state schools.

[UNT_playmaker]

50,000 Seat Stadium, WOOOOOOOOWWW

Im actually shaking........

[UNTLifer]

50,000 Seat Stadium, WOOOOOOOOWWW

Im actually shaking........

I wish this were more definite as to the start date:

Villarreal said he hopes to see construction under way by the end of the decade.

[PerryG2480]

"The sad reality is you have the North Texases of the world trying to keep up and play a game they simply can't win," said David Ridpath, a professor of sports administration at Ohio University. "There's only so far they can go, and if they try to go as far as UT, they're going to lose, and their students are going to lose."

Says the official at Ohio University?

Edited October 2, 2007 by PerryG2480

[GrandGreen]

I wish the focus of this articles and others would stress how obscene it is to spend the kind of money programs like UT spend on sports and what it is doing to true competition. Even the pro leagues know that to keep some competition in their game they have to maintain some balance between teams.

[Quoner]

"The sad reality is you have the North Texases of the world trying to keep up and play a game they simply can't win," said David Ridpath, a professor of sports administration at Ohio University. "There's only so far they can go, and if they try to go as far as UT, they're going to lose, and their students are going to lose."

Says the official at Ohio University?

One of the best, if not the best, sports management program in the country.

[GreenBat]

"The sad reality is you have the North Texases of the world trying to keep up and play a game they simply can't win," said David Ridpath, a professor of sports administration at Ohio University. "There's only so far they can go, and if they try to go as far as UT, they're going to lose, and their students are going to lose."

Says the official at Ohio University?

WHERE's OHIO UNIVERSITY?

I know it's in Ohio, but where in Ohio?

[Greendylan]

WHERE's OHIO UNIVERSITY?

I know it's in Ohio, but where in Ohio?

It's in Athens, OH - a small town in the SW part of the state.

[PlummMeanGreen]

He's wrong.

In the past decade schools like South Florida, and Central Florida have not only started programs, but have raised them to be competitive on a national scale.

The simple fact is SIZE DOES MATTER. When a school such as North Texas finally decides to make a committment, it will succeed as well.

UTSA has recently raised it's student athletic fee to the state maximum of $240 per student per semester. It seems like a lot, especially for a school that doesn't even offer the premier sport of football, but it's what UTEP students, administrators and regents have decided is necessary to help the university separate from the quagmire of 'smaller' schools that they have always been associated with. It's the type committment that South Florida had made, and one that Central Florida had made.

If North Texas were to make a similar commitment the football and basketball programs would contend for postseason play every year, revenue through donations and ticket sales would skyrocket, and facilities would be comperable to many of the other large state schools.

Good post, ADLER...

What will also help North Texas remove itself from a quagmire of fellow Texas schools some of our elect want to be part of in a conference (CUSA) may suggest that we cannot build a stadium in the low 30's (like some of those very Texas schools in CUSA).

We have to all eventually consider adopting a philosophy that we are just going to have to do the extra things to catch many of our fellow D1-A Texas' schools eyes. Rick V talks about 50K in the Austin American-Statesment, but I think that is long term; but I do think we need to start at 38-40,000 since that will be a larger football venue than several CUSA schools (in and out of the Lone Star State).

Time-table on starting construction for our new stadium? When "one" Big Donor gives the thumbs up (and a signed check) construction can start sooner than you'd ever think. One Fine Day we will all wake up and read where such a Big Donor has been secured, but meanwhile.................our journey continues.

Edited October 2, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[shaft]

He's wrong.

In the past decade schools like South Florida, and Central Florida have not only started programs, but have raised them to be competitive on a national scale.

The simple fact is SIZE DOES MATTER. When a school such as North Texas finally decides to make a committment, it will succeed as well.

UTSA has recently raised it's student athletic fee to the state maximum of $240 per student per semester. It seems like a lot, especially for a school that doesn't even offer the premier sport of football, but it's what UTEP students, administrators and regents have decided is necessary to help the university separate from the quagmire of 'smaller' schools that they have always been associated with. It's the type committment that South Florida had made, and one that Central Florida had made.

If North Texas were to make a similar commitment the football and basketball programs would contend for postseason play every year, revenue through donations and ticket sales would skyrocket, and facilities would be comperable to many of the other large state schools.

So where's your proof that these programs are bringing in more revenue? Improved on-field performance doesn't gaurtee your program is the black.

At the same time College Football is more than just a business operation for the school, it brings a lot of intangibles with it, it just a decission of how much you want to spend for those intangibles.

I also think trying to discredit a professor work because he comes from a small school is laughable and some what hypocritical.

Edited October 2, 2007 by shaft

[NT80]

AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF

Monday, October 01, 2007

Standing on a concrete patio outside his new $9.7 million athletics center, University of North Texas Athletics Director Rick Villarreal gazes south and sees a bright future — a 50,000-seat football stadium that he hopes will soon sprout from the gently rolling former fairway

Wrong....that would be gazing NORTH, not south.

[STE]

For those who think we can't compete at UT's level - see link below:

I know it's been posted many times before but it's worth remembering.

Also - notice the size of our players. Don't they seem just as large as UT's?

[FirefightnRick]

So where's your proof that these programs are bringing in more revenue? Improved on-field performance doesn't gaurtee your program is the black.

At the same time College Football is more than just a business operation for the school, it brings a lot of intangibles with it, it just a decission of how much you want to spend for those intangibles.

I also think trying to discredit a professor work because he comes from a small school is laughable and some what hypocritical.

For me the proof is on TV, on ESPN and the scheduled home games these teams are signing. UCF has only been playing football since 1980 and never had an on campus stadium until now. They built their new stadium, hosted Texas and gave them a run for their money. South Florida's coaches were coaching in a trailerhouse the first time they beat us in '01. In their 9th or 10th season only, they are now in a BCS conference and just knocked off a top 5 team on national TV. Troy was playing in a horrible high school version stadium until they kicked it into high gear and has not only gone from 1-AA to 1-A in 7 short seasons, they have hosted and knocked off a ranked Mizzou team and routed another Big 12 team this year on national tv to add to their dismantling of C-USA Rice last year in the bowl game. Very few teams realize a large revenue payout although Boise might have a different oppinion of that from this past season. For me the "intangibles" is where the biggest payout is.

We have to make the jump and get a stadium here ASAP in order to get out of having to play so many road games and demand 1 and 1's with any OOC opponent in the future.

Adler is right on with his assesment. The BOR needs to make the call and the commitment.

Rick

Edited October 2, 2007 by FirefightnRick

[DeepGreen]

"The sad reality is you have the North Texases of the world trying to keep up and play a game they simply can't win," said David Ridpath, a professor of sports administration at Ohio University. "There's only so far they can go, and if they try to go as far as UT, they're going to lose, and their students are going to lose."

Says the official at Ohio University?

I caught that too. Like Ohio Univ has one of the elite athletic programs in the country.

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

I hate to be the wet blanket, but I think that you misread the Ohio professor's quote. He said, in effect, that we can only go so gar. If we try to match UT in the dollar race we'll lose. He's right. There's no way that we can gear up our program for a $100 million budget. There's probably no more than a dozen schools that could match UT in that category.

That doesn't mean that we can't compete on the field with anyone or have facilities as fine as the vast majority of Division 1-A universities. Adler metioned South Florida. USF operated last year on a budget of $25 million, only $10 million more than ours and they became a BCS college in an automatic bid conference. Baylor has a 50,000 seat stadium and operates on a budget of $36 million.

So, while we'll never be able to compete with Texas in facilities, salaries and the like, we can nevertheless put just as strong a team on the field as they.

[gangrene]

I hate to be the wet blanket, but I think that you misread the Ohio professor's quote. He said, in effect, that we can only go so gar. If we try to match UT in the dollar race we'll lose. He's right. There's no way that we can gear up our program for a $100 million budget. There's probably no more than a dozen schools that could match UT in that category.

Right. Dr. Ridpath has done extensive research on the impact D-1 athletics have on academics, many of which have been published. At first, I thought the same thing...why would the author of the article cite a professor from Ohio University...then I remembered I had read one of his publications.

[Green Mean]

I wish the focus of this articles and others would stress how obscene it is to spend the kind of money programs like UT spend on sports and what it is doing to true competition. Even the pro leagues know that to keep some competition in their game they have to maintain some balance between teams.

In a perfect world yes that would be great GG but lets face it that it would be almost impossible to balance all 120 D1 schools in the same piece of pie. Programs like UT spend a ton of money on these programs but look how much they get back not only in athletics but within the whole school? I dont think any UT program ever has to worry about funding because they always get it. The pro leagues have a monitored system with just about 30 teams so its easier to maintain a balance. Personally the only way UNT will ever reach a new level is when the school and its people decide to take the next level and just spend more money. You have to lose something to gain something and if it takes something UNT already has to make that happen then I am all for it.