Vizza Vs. Meager

[mad dog]

Giovanni Vizza has talent. No one on earth can deny that. But, historically, the backup guy has always been the favorite player at North Texas. If you can believe it, I actually recall hearing "Why didn't we put in Byerly?" in 2004.

This year is no different than any other year. I think there's a lot of seeing what you want to see going on out there. We want the stellar QB who comes out of nowhere to lead us to victory. We want Tony Romo. But, remember: we went through Anthony Wright, Quincy Carter, Clint Stoerner, Chad Hutchison, Ryan Leaf, Tony Banks, Vinny Testaverde, Drew Henson, and Drew Bledsoe to get him.

I've not made any bones about being a fan of Daniel's, but, in this case, the stats bear me out.

Giovanni Vizza

12/37 (32%) for 242 yards. 1 TD and 3 Interception (1:3 TD/Interception Radio)

QB Rating: 80.8

Daniel Meager

106/167 (64%) for 1081 yards. 4 td and 8 Interceptions (1:2 TD/Interception Radio)

QB Rating: 116.17

Vizza might be a Tony Romo in waiting. But Tony Romo had the benefit of four years on the bench to learn and adjust to the speed. Had Romo been thrown to the wolves his first year, who's to say that he is anything close to the guy he is today? Meager's the guy for now. Let's do our best to at least make it through half a season before we start calling for another unproven backup.

[untbowler]

Giovanni Vizza has talent. No one on earth can deny that. But, historically, the backup guy has always been the favorite player at North Texas. If you can believe it, I actually recall hearing "Why didn't we put in Byerly?" in 2004.

This year is no different than any other year. I think there's a lot of seeing what you want to see going on out there. We want the stellar QB who comes out of nowhere to lead us to victory. We want Tony Romo. But, remember: we went through Anthony Wright, Quincy Carter, Clint Stoerner, Chad Hutchison, Ryan Leaf, Tony Banks, Vinny Testaverde, Drew Henson, and Drew Bledsoe to get him.

I've not made any bones about being a fan of Daniel's, but, in this case, the stats bear me out.

Giovanni Vizza

12/37 (32%) for 242 yards. 1 TD and 3 Interception (1:3 TD/Interception Radio)

QB Rating: 80.8

Daniel Meager

106/167 (64%) for 1081 yards. 4 td and 8 Interceptions (1:2 TD/Interception Radio)

QB Rating: 116.17

Vizza might be a Tony Romo in waiting. But Tony Romo had the benefit of four years on the bench to learn and adjust to the speed. Had Romo been thrown to the wolves his first year, who's to say that he is anything close to the guy he is today? Meager's the guy for now. Let's do our best to at least make it through half a season before we start calling for another unproven backup.

I'll agree to disagree, for your example Bledsoe was winning some games, DM unfortunately for whatever reasons has had almost 2.5 years now of starter experience and has registered exactly 4 wins. It just does not seem that he can do it against what is arguably some of the weakest competition in 1-A. Can Vizza do it? Who knows but at least we can grow with Vizza without all the expectation that fans put on a 2 year starter.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Vizza throws bad passes. I know there is a faction that is the Cult of Vizza here, but spare us. He's a true freshman and is playing like a true freshman. And, sadly, what the Cult of Vizza is failing to admit is that he hasn't even been facing the opponents' first team defenses when he plays. Yes, that's right...he's out there throwing picks to third teamers and walk on scout teamers who will probably never get into another game this year.

Meager isn't Joe Montana, but he's better than he was before. And, he's playing it tough against the first team defenses of all our opponents. And, he's had us in position to win a couple of games. Yes, he's thrown late interceptions. But, that's only because we have a defense that is forcing him to take the team on his back and carry it all by himself to victory. As poor as his late interceptions are, I'd shudder to think what would be happening if Dodge just rolled Vizza out there as unprepared as he is.

Chew on this one, Vizza Cultists: We wouldn't have been in the SMU and FAU games if Vizza had started. With as many picks as he's had against trash teamers, there's no telling how many he'd be throwing against the first teamers.

I'm with the crowd that says it doesn't matter who the QB is until the defense quits bleeding. But, to bang on Meager for having us in winnable games and then being put in tight situations by the defense. How much more can you ask the kid to do?

In my book, it's the same as last week...

...win...cover and win...tackle and win. And, then, win again.

Edited October 1, 2007 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[Dodge2007]

Sorry Fake Lonnie,

Your wrong. Vizza was in with the first team against Arkansas in the 2nd Quarter and took UNT 80 yards and a score. Against OU he had two thorpe DB candidates in the game in the 3rd quarter and then played against 2nd's in the fourth quarter.

Arkansas's and OU first, seconds and third's are better than any Sun Belt foe except for Troy and Ark. State.

It is obvious Fake Lonnie that you must have not been at either game in person. I like DM and felt DM would get the job done as I stated all summer but the true fact is that Vizza is just more talented than Danny. He has more moxie, pocket presence, better arm, better legs, better leadership, and runs the ball like a mother.

It is one thing for the fans to want him but it is completely different when the team wants him. The team wants Vizza to start so he must be doing everything right in practice and in the film room etc.

It was so obvious that Vizza is better than Meager in that second quarter against Arkansas. This comment comes from me who backed Danny all the way. But any kid who can move the ball after sitting the 1st quarter and who has not taken a snap since SEPTEMBER 1, deserves his opportunity.

TD is affraid to be accused of the merry go round of using QB's. I think he gave DM all the rope and now its time to see what Vizza can do from on the onset. He is a spark and does bring excitement to the fans but more importantly to the freakin team. IT is obvious if you were there at the game.

Edited October 1, 2007 by Dodge2007

[Cr1028]

Sorry Fake Lonnie,

Your wrong. Vizza was in with the first team against Arkansas in the 2nd Quarter and took UNT 80 yards and a score. Against OU he had two thorpe DB candidates in the game in the 3rd quarter and then played against 2nd's in the fourth quarter.

Arkansas's and OU first, seconds and third's are better than any Sun Belt foe except for Troy and Ark. State.

It is obvious Fake Lonnie that you must have not been at either game in person. I like DM and felt DM would get the job done as I stated all summer but the true fact is that Vizza is just more talented than Danny. He has more moxie, pocket presence, better arm, better legs, better leadership, and runs the ball like a mother.

It is one thing for the fans to want him but it is completely different when the team wants him. The team wants Vizza to start so he must be doing everything right in practice and in the film room etc.

It was so obvious that Vizza is better than Meager in that second quarter against Arkansas. This comment comes from me who backed Danny all the way. But any kid who can move the ball after sitting the 1st quarter and who has not taken a snap since SEPTEMBER 1, deserves his opportunity.

TD is affraid to be accused of the merry go round of using QB's. I think he gave DM all the rope and now its time to see what Vizza can do from on the onset. He is a spark and does bring excitement to the fans but more importantly to the freakin team. IT is obvious if you were there at the game.

Well put. I can agree because I was at both games. There is just more confidence in the air, on the sidelines, and on the field when GV is in there.

[Cr1028]

Vizza throws bad passes. I know there is a faction that is the Cult of Vizza here, but spare us. He's a true freshman and is playing like a true freshman. And, sadly, what the Cult of Vizza is failing to admit is that he hasn't even been facing the opponents' first team defenses when he plays. Yes, that's right...he's out there throwing picks to third teamers and walk on scout teamers who will probably never get into another game this year.

Oh you mean like our starting corners?

[GoMeanGreen1999]

Vizza throws bad passes. I know there is a faction that is the Cult of Vizza here, but spare us. He's a true freshman and is playing like a true freshman. And, sadly, what the Cult of Vizza is failing to admit is that he hasn't even been facing the opponents' first team defenses when he plays. Yes, that's right...he's out there throwing picks to third teamers and walk on scout teamers who will probably never get into another game this year.

Well then all the more reason to start Vizza since he is a freshman. Since Meager has had 2.5 years already and Vizza is the freshman. Let me ask, who do you think is better: OU and UA's 3rd stringers and walk-on's, or our scout team? If I remember correctly, Meager threw 4 picks against our scout team. I don't why I try to argue for Vizza though, because Dodge has made it clear who the starter is.

I do agree with your defense assessments.

Edited October 1, 2007 by GoMeanGreen1999

[FirefightnRick]

Just playing devil's advocate here Rick but do you recall when that horrid defense you keep harping on (and rightfully so, don't get me wrong) intercepted Justin Willis just after we came back to tie the game? What did Danny do on THE VERY NEXT PLAY? Pick. One of 3 that night.

That same defense went out and forced a 3 and out on UA's first posession and what happened after that? 12 men on the field for the punt return, UA's ball, 1st and ten. But someone would have had to of sold their soul to the devil himself to reverse what was to come next.

But again, if after a 6 hour drive home from watching our defense allow 5 scoring drives on 4 plays....or LESS!!!!!!!!!!!, three of which that went for over 60 yards and all you can think of is that we need a QB change then I don't know what else I can say.

Rick

Edited October 2, 2007 by FirefightnRick

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Lets look at what is truly being ignored. The MAJOR concern for this team IS the defense. It's what isn't working. The defense is why we are 0-4. A perfect example: After watching our offense set records and our defense make smu look like Brigham Young, all some of our posters here on GMG.com could talk about while walking out of Ford stadium that night was how DM has to go? The guy sets an offensive school record on a night the defense gives up 534 yards, 28 first downs and 45 points and it's all Danny Meagers fault we lost?

Y'all go ahead and keep kicking your dead horse and I'll kick mine.

Rick

--You absolutely right..... the Major concern now is defense.... Our offense can hold its own against most of our opponents if we can slow their offense down.

\

---I expected us to be better in that area... I will not pretend to understand why are doing so poorly but I will say one thing which is you can not expect freshman to fill those positions and do well. Freshman can do pretty well as receivers and sometimes RBs maybe one mixed into an experienced defensive backfield... They just don't have the physical strength or maturity to do well in the trenches unless they are truly unusual. It is going to take time.. Some here want to blame all failures on a QB whoever he is...... well the QB did not allow any of those points scored on the defense. You could make a argument late in game maybe if he can't keep the defense off the field but not all for those points score in the first half..

DD recruited poorly... as we are still paying for it (he recruited the seniors, juniors and sophomores). Even Patrick Cobbs when here was an accidental DD "recruit"... he knocked on the front door wanting to play here... not DD recruiting him... Some of other best players we have had were players others overlooked and then decided to come here due to lack of offers... Things will change ..be patient.

[Vizza4QB]

You have to see the genius in what T Dodge has done. I want Vizza to play QB more then anyone, i will be the first to admit this fact. His genius is the fact that to keep from having too much of a quarterback controversy he has only played Vizza on the road. The only way you get to see Vizza play is if you traveled to OU or Arkansas to see him. I went to the OU game and (if you didn’t i'm sorry but) the observation i came away with is that the TEAM was interested in what the kid was doing, D-fense included. They all wanted to see what the kid could do. When Meager goes out on the field the D-fense sits on the side line. When Vizza went into the game at OU the whole side line and stands got excited. That is what this program needs EXCITEMENT! With Vizza at QB you get that excitment. Let’s just hope that Dodge will play Vizza at a home game. The one thing i heard from many fans after the SMU game was look at all the yards that Meager threw for, it was not his fault we lost. My only comment to that statement is the QB gets the wins and he also gets the loss. With Meager as the starter this year we are 0 - 4. He can have great stats but we lose. I would rather him throw for 10 yards and UNT win. The only way we are going to create the atmosphere everyone wants is to start winning and Meager has proven that with two winnable games on the schedule he couldn’t get the job done. Lets see if Vizza can beat someone and lets not KNEE JERK if he struggles at first. We get to watch him for another 3 years he will only get better. The sad thing is Meager and a true freshman are at the same level. Think about what we might have if Dodge gives Vizza a chance to play and learn this year. There will be no contest to who is better going into next season.

Vizza

Vizza

Vizza

Vizza

Lets get this chant started at the next home game.

[Dodge2007]

Meager is the starter, get over it. DM is going to set all the school records for the season and be 0-12 if our team as a whole doesn't get better.

[Smitty]

I don't really care who is QB. I trust Dodge to make the right decision, because he knows more about the position than every person on this board combined.

My only comment to that statement is the QB gets the wins and he also gets the loss. With Meager as the starter this year we are 0 - 4. He can have great stats but we lose. I would rather him throw for 10 yards and UNT win.

My only comment to this statement is the team gets the wins and the team gets the loss. And Meager can have great stats but if the defense doesn't play better, we lose.

Lets see if Vizza can beat someone and lets not KNEE JERK if he struggles at first.

Why not? You're knee-jerking about Meager. Four games in a new system is enough to make a final judgment? Then I guess you would have cut Troy Aikman the middle of his first season. No, I'm not comparing Troy and Meager, not at all. But I am comparing the rather brief amount of information upon which everyone is judging Meager. And don't even mention the past two years. Anything coming from train wreck led by DD and Flanagan should not be held against any player.

The sad thing is Meager and a true freshman are at the same level. Think about what we might have if Dodge gives Vizza a chance to play and learn this year.

How would you know they are at the same level? Vizza hasn't played enough to show that. And Dodge IS giving Vizza a chance to learn this year. That's what they're doing with him this year - teaching him to play college quarterback.

Vizza

Vizza

Vizza

Vizza

Lets get this chant started at the next home game.

Let's not get this chant started. For crying out loud, they're kids. They're not professional athletes. How about a little respect for these kids and a little bit more civil behavior. It's been painfully lacking all too often on this board.

Edited October 4, 2007 by Smitty

[JayDub]

Anything coming from train wreck led by DD and Flanagan should not be held against any player.

I respectfully disagree. This is a new regime. And, if you don't fit into the scheme by game 4, you're wasting space. We're better off playing the young guys instead of spending so much time trying to break the old habits of players from a failed regime.

This is a rebuilding year. Let's rebuild.

[calvin]

Why does it have to be a rebuilding year with 9 guys coming back on defense ? Why does it have to be a rebuilding year with guys like Fitzgerald and B. Jax ?

[calvin]

It wasnt a rebuilding year for MTSU or Rice last year . It wasnt a rebuilding year when Briles took over at UH.

[gangrene]

Why does it have to be a rebuilding year with 9 guys coming back on defense ? Why does it have to be a rebuilding year with guys like Fitzgerald and B. Jax ?

It wasnt a rebuilding year for MTSU or Rice last year . It wasnt a rebuilding year when Briles took over at UH.

Why does this have to be a rebuilding year? Because we're North Texas. We have low expectations and should be damned for expecting to be better than 0-4 when we have an entirely new coaching staff and players that were not recruited for this system. As long as we're playing .500 ball by the 4th season under Todge, we shouldn't complain.

[untbowler]

Why not? You're knee-jerking about Meager. Four games in a new system is enough to make a final judgment? Then I guess you would have cut Troy Aikman the middle of his first season. No, I'm not comparing Troy and Meager, not at all. But I am comparing the rather brief amount of information upon which everyone is judging Meager. And don't even mention the past two years. Anything coming from train wreck led by DD and Flanagan should not be held against any player.

What over the past 2.5 years and the spring game gives you any indication that Meager can lead this team to the Victory promise land? A 4-20 starting record is not what I would consider being successful. We are rebuilding so why not play the future.

[MeanMag]

There is no QB competition. Meager is the starter, and I'm actually okay with that this year. (unlike last year). Emmitt, I really like your opinion on a lot of matters, but it seems like the QB just gets all your attention. It did when Scott Hall / Andrew Smith were here. Clearly, we know you like rooting for the guy who isn't a starter, and that's fine. Move on though, because until we are lose 2 more games in conference I don't see anything changing. Have some patience.

But it doesn't really matter what I think, or what you think, and that's a good thing. Dodge is the head coach, and he knows a hell of a lot more about these 2 guys than you or I, or anyone else on this board does.

I also agree with Smitty, don't chant Vizza-Vizza-Vizza when Meager is out there. It's as childish as flinging poop at people. It's as bad as booing the refs on the right call. It's as gay as throwing tortillas on the field. It's as dumb as yelling "NORTH-TEXAS" on offensive possesions. And, it's as stupid as completely giving up on your team, and the people in charge. Most of all, it might be the most classless thing you could possibly do, short of putting the team in black jerseys.

[greenminer]

CLICK HERE and scroll to the bottom.

Give it up for crying out loud! Peyton Manning couldn't help our situation right now with a defense giving up 580 yards per game?

Rick

ding.

As for all the "mapologists" (excellent word, sirs), of course you can keep improving any aspect of the game. But really, if you could wave a magic wand tomorrow and magically reverse the trends of one of these two, which would you choose:

a) defensive performance

QB play

If Meager was amazing the next game or Vizza took over and got SMUish stats, but the defense stayed on its current course, would you feel comfortable betting on a W?

[GangGreen]

Emmitt,

When have you ever been happy with the starting QB for NT? I'm really not on either side of the fence, but as long as I've been on this board it has always been your biggest gripe.

Smith over Hall

Wilson over Phillips

Wilson over Meager

Vizza over Meager

I think I see a pattern developing.

[Cr1028]

It's as dumb as yelling "NORTH-TEXAS" on offensive possesions.

YAY! Somebody said it! Could we get the cheerleaders a "Football for dummies" manual? We are in a no-huddle spread offense. We need to be quiet so they can get the signals in. THAT IS WHAT HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE IS ABOUT! Make noise when the other team is on offense so you can disrupt their signals and snap count, not ours. I also think "First and 10, do it again, go, go" should be banned until we go back to a slow paced offense with huddles. I hope that never happens.

[Smitty]

I respectfully disagree. This is a new regime. And, if you don't fit into the scheme by game 4, you're wasting space. We're better off playing the young guys instead of spending so much time trying to break the old habits of players from a failed regime.

This is a rebuilding year. Let's rebuild.

I got no problem with that opinion, and I agree with viewing this as a rebuilding year. But I have a big problem with the attitude of those like Vizza4QB who want to place the blame for the 0-4 start completely on Meager. There's plenty of blame to pass around.

[pollock]

Who cares who the QB is right now. Roger Freaking Staubach couldn't win with our D.

[emmitt01]

Emmitt,

When have you ever been happy with the starting QB for NT? I'm really not on either side of the fence, but as long as I've been on this board it has always been your biggest gripe.

Smith over Hall

Wilson over Phillips

Wilson over Meager

Vizza over Meager

I think I see a pattern developing.

I see one too. I'm consistently right...and couldn't be more right this time.

[MeanMag]

I see one too. I'm consistently right...and couldn't be more right this time.

And, full of crap.

I know Meager has no points against OU and UA. I know Vizza has 17. REALLY, it doesn't make that much difference to me. I DON'T CARE WHO STARTS. 17 points is of no significance to me. I just want a football team to be proud of and the difference in QB's won't do that for me.

We aren't going to turn those losses into respectability with something as simple as a QB change.