Giovanni Vizza

BIG DAWG · September 30, 2007

This thread is not intended to be critical if Dodge, Meager, or intended to be a knee jerk response to getting blasted by a superior team in Arkansas.

I simply just do not understand why Vizza is not the starter of this team. He is the future, or we at least need to find out if he is. Meager is definitley not. Nothing against him, we just are not within two years of being a dominant team, therefore you need to begin preparing the guy that will be here in three years, Vizza.

If he isn't going to be starting why not redshirt him? This makes no sense to me. If he is just going to be a back up, there is no reason not to redshirt him. Give him a year to get acclamated to the college game watching on the sidelines if he isn't going to play. You burned his redshirt so you had better make it count.

I can see starting Meager if he is the superior player, and you are affraid of the kid coming in and turning the ball over becasue you are in a position to win, and the redshirt junior can manage the game better and avoid the costly turnover in big games on your way to a conference championship, but Meager is not that QB. He makes costly turnovers, and we ar not in a position to win confernce championships.

I would rather Vizza learn from his mistakes when we don't have a chance at a conference championship, then make learning mistakes when we do have that chance.

And it isn't like I am giving up on the season, but freshman mistakes are not much different than the mistakes your rs junior is making.

I understand that Dodge is a QB guru, and I fully believe that he will lead this team to great things, but realize the situation you are in and get the freshman that very well might be the future some meaningful competitive reps. You have another guy coming in next year, and it would be good to know what the heck we have.

Meager is not the steady veteran, and even in head to head competition this fall he couldn't stand out on his own vs. the freshman, so why not play Vizza?

IS THERE ANYTHING TO LOSE AT THIS POINT?

TheTastyGreek · September 30, 2007

IS THERE ANYTHING TO LOSE AT THIS POINT?

8 more games, maximum.

It seems to me that it's almost irrelevant, in terms of outcomes this season, who starts or finishes or anything inbetween at Quarterback. I think Dodge has done an amazing job with Meager, and I think Vizza has a ton of potential. I really don't much care who he puts on the field.

We won't win until the parts of the team that don't involve a Quarterback (well... that don't involve a QB that isn't a crouching Matt Phillips) improve dramatically.

Edited September 30, 2007 by TheTastyGreek

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 30, 2007

This is the million dollar question (only second maybe to what happened to our defense). I wish someone could tell me why Vizza is not starting. I just got through listening to the post game with Dodge, and he made it very clear that Meager is still the starter, and Vizza is still the backup.

BIG DAWG · September 30, 2007

and he made it very clear that Meager is still the starter, and Vizza is still the backup.

I know I heard it to, and I have absolutley no clue why. What in the hell is he seeing to think this. Meager does not put us in any better situation to win. They are both equal at best, so why not go woth the younger guy.

I could understand if we were in a position to win next year, and he wanted to get Meager prepared, but we are not in a position to win this year or next.

GO WITH THE FREAKIN FRSHMAN!

KingDL1 · September 30, 2007

Many predicted that the earliest we would see Vizza start would be after the Arkansas game at Louisiana Lafayette, not to feed Vizza to the wolves and give him a chance to get use to the College level. I agree that Vizza should be starting and I will be disappointed if he does not start next week at Lafayette.

GO MEAN GREEN

Vizza

KingDL1 · September 30, 2007

I know I heard it to, and I have absolutley no clue why. What in the hell is he seeing to think this. Meager does not put us in any better situation to win. They are both equal at best, so why not go woth the younger guy.
I could understand if we were in a position to win next year, and he wanted to get Meager prepared, but we are not in a position to win this year or next.
GO WITH THE FREAKIN FRSHMAN!

Dodge is not going to Knee jerk right after the game, we may hear something different come Monday or Tuesday.

BIG DAWG · September 30, 2007

Everyone hear and know this...

DODGE WILL STAY WITH MEAGER FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON, AND YOU ALL WILL ONLY SEE ENOUGH OF VIZZA TO KEEP YOU BELIEVING HE SHOULD BE STARTING.

DODGE DOES NOT WANT MEAGER TO GET HIS FEELINGS HURT BY HAVING TO LOOK OVER HIS SHOULDER. HE NAMED MEAGER THE STARTER, AND DAMNIT THE QB GURU HAS SPOKEN.

Lets go Daniel Meager...piss on that.

All messing around aside do not plan on Vizza starting a game this season unless Meager is hurt

Edited September 30, 2007 by BIG DAWG

Smitty · September 30, 2007

One possible theory about why Vizza and other freshman are not getting more playing time thus far.

Perhaps Dodge is just being very careful about breaking these guys in, and he's willing to use the entire season to do it. He may not feel that it's best for Vizza or any other other freshman to be playing full time yet. Could Vizza do better than Meager? Perhaps, but if it's not best for Vizza's development to be the full-time starter right now, then he should not yet be the full-time starter yet, regardless of the outcome in any particular game.

Perhaps Dodge feels that this is the best way to break in this initial recruiting class, and he's getting each player playing time according to when he feels each player is ready. Develop in practice, develop watching the games from the sidelines, and develop by slowly increasing their playing time at the pace the coaches feel suits each player. I know coaches hate to throw young players - at the high school, college, or pro levels - into the deep end. They'd rather let them learn for awhile, then move them in slowly. It's frustrating for us, but it might be best in the long run.

I know that the retort is, "Well, he couldn't do any worse than..." That's not the point. The point is how to best develop these freshman.

No insider information here. It's just a theory, based on past observations of coaches. At least, I hope that's what's happening.

And I offer up an cautionary example: if you don't think damage can be done by rushing a player into the lineup, does anyone remember David Clyde? He was a sensational young pitcher in the 70s that the Rangers rushed from high school into the majors to sell tickets - and in doing so, wrecked his career.

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 30, 2007

Everyone hear and know this...
DODGE WILL STAY WITH MEAGER FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON, AND YOU ALL WILL ONLY SEE ENOUGH OF VIZZA TO KEEP YOU BELIEVING HE SHOULD BE STARTING.
DODGE DOES NOT WANT MEAGER TO GET HIS FEELINGS HURT BY HAVING TO LOOK OVER HIS SHOULDER. HE NAMED MEAGER THE STARTER, AND DAMNIT THE QB GURU HAS SPOKEN.
Lets go Daniel Meager...piss on that.
All messing around aside do not plan on Vizza starting a game this season unless Meager is hurt

Here is what I fear: Meager plays as the starter all season, with Vizza coming in and getting some time, but Meager remains entrenched as the starter for the whole year. Next season rolls around, and because Meager is a SR. with an entire year of the offense under his belt, he starts his SR. year. I have had a hard time believing that if he is the starter all season, that he won't start next season too. Could be wrong of course, but that is my feeling. After listening to Dodge though after the game, I agree with BIG DAWG, Meager is the starter, and will be the rest of the season barring injury.

TheTastyGreek · September 30, 2007

One possible theory about why Vizza and other freshman are not getting more playing time thus far.
Perhaps Dodge is just being very careful about breaking these guys in, and he's willing to use the entire season to do it. He may not feel that it's best for Vizza or any other other freshman to be playing full time yet. Could Vizza do better than Meager? Perhaps, but if it's not best for Vizza's development to be the full-time starter right now, then he should not yet be the full-time starter yet, regardless of the outcome in any particular game.
Perhaps Dodge feels that this is the best way to break in this initial recruiting class, and he's getting each player playing time according to when he feels each player is ready. Develop in practice, develop watching the games from the sidelines, and develop by slowly increasing their playing time at the pace the coaches feel suits each player. I know coaches hate to throw young players - at the high school, college, or pro levels - into the deep end. They'd rather let them learn for awhile, then move them in slowly. It's frustrating for us, but it might be best in the long run.
I know that the retort is, "Well, he couldn't do any worse than..." That's not the point. The point is how to best develop these freshman.
No insider information here. It's just a theory, based on past observations of coaches. At least, I hope that's what's happening.

Brilliant. Very well put. I don't think you needed the Clyde example... This an excellent and clearly reasoned discussion of the subject.

Given that, it's likely to be completely ignored. I just wanted to let you know that someone noticed.

GreenGumby · September 30, 2007

Let's not forget that next year none of this will matter because Riley will be here. Burn Vizza's shirt this year and he'll be out of the way for Riley's Senior year.

Smitty · September 30, 2007

Brilliant. Very well put. I don't think you needed the Clyde example... This an excellent and clearly reasoned discussion of the subject.
Given that, it's likely to be completely ignored. I just wanted to let you know that someone noticed.

Thanks, Greek.

GrandGreen · September 30, 2007

Vizza is not the starter for one reason. TD at this time thinks that Meager gives NT a better chance of winning. TD unlike some, has not given up on the season and does not believe that its ok to wait years for positive results.

It is amazing that we fans all feel like we can make better decisions than a coach that works with the players everyday and has his future dependent on the results. I would guess that TD is not satisfied with any of his QB's play at this point, but the QB problem pales compared to other issues on this team.

Anyone else thing that if Vizza was chosen to be the starter, there would be a lot of fans howling for Tune at this time?

NT80 · September 30, 2007

I missed the pregame radio talks and first 17 UA points but someone later told me Meager had the flu tonight? At the end of the game we had 5 true freshman in the game and were driving on UA's reserves. These will be our starters for 2-3 years and they are getting some great experience now. TD knows the future is ahead for most of these players and this team. They do need a win now for their confidence and ours.... maybe ULL?

GreenMachine · September 30, 2007

you now why I'm so proud to be a NT alum? What other school has dozens of fans that are qualified to be DC at a Div 1 school. We have several on board that could take over T. Fords position in a heartbeat and we even have a few that are more qualified than Todge at developing quarterbacks. We have some very talented people on this board that need to leave their current jobs and get into coaching college football.

Some sarcasm (not much though) intended.

Eagle-96 · September 30, 2007

Dodge does not beleive in throwing freshman(especially quarterbacks due to their high profile) to the wolves due in large part to his own experiences at UT. He has stated before that when he didn't perform to expectations his freshman year that he got roasted by fans and the media unmercifully. He understands first hand what that can do to the confidence and development of a young man and he doesn't want to let that happen to his young players. Yes I know that this isn't the pressure cooker that UT is but Dodge is leary of hurting the development of his players. He will bring Vizza along as he sees fit by giving him enough playing time each week to get him used to the speed at this level. LaLa will look like they are runinng in sand compared to Arkansas.

Edited September 30, 2007 by Eagle-96

untbowler · September 30, 2007

ok so according to many self-righteous posters on this board who obviosuly pay more to the school than myself, we as fans should shut the hell up and take the ass-kicking in all 12 games this season like a good little child with a smile on our face. What a great plan? Do not criticize anything about the program because we are UNT and we can handle our football team going 0-12 yet keep 20k fans coming to the games. Yup, great plan and keep it up we need could make the record books for giving up the most points in a season. <_<

Edited September 30, 2007 by untbowler

Cr1028 · September 30, 2007

Maybe Dodge is letting GV take baby steps but anyone that was actually in Fayetteville last night knows that GV played with more poise, heart, determination and just plain has a better arm than our starting qb. When Vizza is in the game, people in the stand and the players on the field seemed to have their spirits lifted a bit. It makes everyone feel like they have a chance.

You have to realize that our incoming freshman have lost very few games in their life and hate to lose. After the last couple years, it almost seems that some of the upperclassmen have accepted losing and simply go through the motions.

Travis · September 30, 2007

ok so according to many self-righteous posters on this board who obviosuly pay more to the school than myself, we as fans should shut the hell up and take the ass-kicking in all 12 games this season like a good little child with a smile on our face. What a great plan? Do not criticize anything about the program because we are UNT and we can handle our football team going 0-12 yet keep 20k fans coming to the games. Yup, great plan and keep it up we need could make the record books for giving up the most points in a season.

I am glad you said this. My thoughts exactly.

Saying you aren't a coach so don't question is a logical fallacy. Look at the argument itself and break down what is actually being said... attacking who is saying it does not making you victor of an athe discussion. Even so, the thread began by one who actually played college ball.

Eagle-96, perhaps you are right. But, I think we are much forgiving for the freshman than for the junior. Well, at least I would speak for me. From the players I have talked to it seems that Vizza has no problem being confident in what he is doing/will do here at UNT. His mentality reminds me of that of Scott Hall. Since the mistakes are similar for the junior and freshman... might as well give the freshman that much needed experience.

Edited September 30, 2007 by Travis

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 30, 2007

Maybe Dodge is letting GV take baby steps but anyone that was actually in Fayetteville last night knows that GV played with more poise, heart, determination and just plain has a better arm than our starting qb. When Vizza is in the game, people in the stand and the players on the field seemed to have their spirits lifted a bit. It makes everyone feel like they have a chance.
You have to realize that our incoming freshman have lost very few games in their life and hate to lose. After the last couple years, it almost seems that some of the upperclassmen have accepted losing and simply go through the motions.

You know, I completely agree with you on the differences just in the attitude and play between Meager and Vizza and to me they are LIGHT years apart from each other, but somehow, Meager just keeps trotting out there to start. I said this last night and I will keep saying it - this team needs to make 2 MAJOR changes, with the first being the Defense, and the second being the QB position. Until they make a change of something on the Defensive side of the ball, I am not sure it really matters what QB is in there.

Cr1028 · September 30, 2007

Until they make a change of something on the Defensive side of the ball, I am not sure it really matters what QB is in there.

That is for certain!

Eagle-96 · October 1, 2007

Eagle-96, perhaps you are right. But, I think we are much forgiving for the freshman than for the junior. Well, at least I would speak for me. From the players I have talked to it seems that Vizza has no problem being confident in what he is doing/will do here at UNT. His mentality reminds me of that of Scott Hall. Since the mistakes are similar for the junior and freshman... might as well give the freshman that much needed experience.

I am only trying to give a perspective of what Dodge said in previous interviews. He said that the criticism he took at the hands of the press and from being booed and bashed by the fans had a profound effect on him and that he has a protective attitude towards a freshman quarterback. I agree with you, Emmitt, and alot of other posters that Vizza is the best option right now. He gets a buzz going with the fans and the team. He seems to be poised beyond his years. He has better arm strength and better pocket presence and I think he could be one of the great NT quarterbacks of all time before all is said and done. I just know that Dodge is treating him with kid gloves right now and I will give Coach Dodge the benefit of the doubt.

Edited October 1, 2007 by Eagle-96

GoMeanGreen1999 · October 1, 2007

I am only trying to give a perspective of what Dodge said in previous interviews. He said that the criticism he took at the hands of the press and from being booed and bashed by the fans had a profound effect on him and that he has a protective attitude towards a freshman quarterback. I agree with you, Emmitt, and alot of other protsers that Vizza is the best option right now. He gets a buzz going with the fans and the team. He seems to be poised beyond his years. He has better arm strength and better pocket presence and I think he could be one of the great NT quarterbacks of all time before all is said and done. I just know that Dodge is treating him with kid gloves right now and I will give Coach Dodge the benefit of the doubt.

I understand with what you are saying, and to a degree I understand why Dodge wants to do it this way because of what happened to him. The main difference is though that UT and UNT are so vastly different in fan and media support and Vizza is so clearly better than Meager, that if something doesn't change quick, we can kiss any thought of there being much of an attendence by the 3rd home game. I said it earlier today - this saturday is a MUST WIN if we want to have any hope of having a large crowd next home game.