Unreasonable Expectations

gangrene · September 28, 2007

Also, that Rice team of last year: They started out the season 0-4....before winning 7 of their last 8.....and going to the NO Bowl.
The Mean Green season is still young, and ripe with opportunities.

Yes, excellent point...so I guess we shouldn't panic if happen to find ourselves 1-5??

Cr1028 · September 28, 2007

2006 North Texas - 1-2, 34 total points scored.
2007 North Texas - 0-3, 61 total points scored.
Dodge's offense is scoring 9 more points per game than the same NT players did last year.
2006 North Texas defense - 1-2, 90 points allowed.
2007 North Texas defense - 0-3, 154 points allowed.
Mendoza's defense is allowing 21.33 more points per games than the same NT players did last year under Bliel.

The bad part is even with the 2006 defense we still haven't scored as many points in 2007. While I"m not defending our current defense, how much of a difference do you think the longer games (now that we pass the ball) would have on Bleil's defensive numbers?

While Dodge deserves some blame for neglecting the run later in the game(as he said himself), I still think there are bigger factors than him. If our quarterback (whoever it is) puts the ball where it needs to be, INTs turn to TDs and we are 2-1 right now.

We need some aggression on our pass rush (Gilmore should help more as the season progresses). This will lead the other teams to start making bad throws and taking sacks. This would make Mendoza's defense workable.

UNT_92_Fan · September 28, 2007

UCF has been mentioned on this thread as a quick turnaround. Not so....O'Leary went 0-12 his first year there.
Also, that Rice team of last year: They started out the season 0-4....before winning 7 of their last 8.....and going to the NO Bowl.
The Mean Green season is still young, and ripe with opportunities.

THANK YOU SUMG... someone who knows something... New Coach... New Regime... New Attitude.... It takes alittle time to implement this stuff people. I ahve had mroe fun watching these games than I have had since the last NO Bowl.

But if we are losing...some people have to call for someone's head...cause then there would nothing to do but sit around and read Tina Yothers Sports....

untbowler · September 28, 2007

But if we are losing...some people have to call for someone's head...cause then there would nothing to do but sit around and read Tina Yothers Sports....

Again who is calling for someone's head? Sounds like some of you guys need to unbunch your panties. Everyone is firmly behind Dodge, but are questioning the Defense and leadership of certain positions. Quit trying to make mountains out of ant hills. To bad more fans do not expect more right now.

UNT_92_Fan · September 28, 2007

I never said anyone was calling for Dodge's head, but there have been post on this board about his staff... I back this team fully and understand there will be some growing pains whereas some think we should be contending for the National Championship after one spring practice session and month and a half of practice and games.... Three are quite a few people on here who need to unbunch their mean green panties, I agree...

Even if we are 0-3, This season has been more enjoyable in my eyes because we are seeing something that is going to be huge... WITH TIME... Rome wasnt built in a day, Barry Bonds didnt hit 756 after only one poke of the steroid needle, and I sure didn't wake up with this finely sculpted body one morning...it took a long time of overeating and laziness to be this sexy!

SLCoutsider · September 28, 2007

Maybe it's just a terminology thing. I believe in the power of setting high goals yet still having reasonable expectations. Winning the SBC, going .500, or winning all the remaining home games are all achievable goals. But I don't think any of these are reasonable expectations.

PlummMeanGreen · September 28, 2007

I think it may be a reasonable theory for those who will accept it to suggest that we are just going to have to go through a time of short term loss in order for us to have (eventual) long term gain. I guess the question I have is what most on this board would define as their version of long term gain.

In my heart of hearts, I just can't believe that winning the SBC as a Bottom 25 football program and then going to a bowl game as an unranked football program is just not going to cut it for most of our alums and MG fans anymore.

Whoever wins the SBC this year I hope will win it as a Top 25 football program. Are we as Sun Belters asking too much with that? Well, the MAC and WAC champions have done it in recent years as members of the Top 25 and it wasn't that long ago where many Sun Belter's didn't see us that far behind most of those 2 conference member's football programs.

TDodge inherited a program that had numerous off the field discipline problems that are just not going to be posted on this forum by anyone. There is just some dirty laundry that should never be posted on GMG.com, but hellsbells, the Black Unis'-Gate toward the end of last season easily suggests discipline problems may have even existed toward the top and if that were the case, its very easy to understand why such problems ran downhill to some of our players. I think Coach Dodge has corrected most of this, but can any new HFC really correct most or all such undisciplined mind-sets in less than 1 year?

IMO, we are a work in progress of which our elect are just going to have to accept short term loss(es) for eventual long term (Top 25) gain. I think when that time comes, that we will look back and say the early DodgeBall down times were more than worth the wait. It also seems to me that other D1-A outposts are beginning to notice and extol Todd Dodge's upside than (maybe) way too many of our own elect? That should be a matter of concern for any NT Ex or MG fan. Do we want to make it easy for our Coach to look back at his beginnings (and subsequent treatment) during his 1's year or so at UNT by our fan base as a reason to leave?

Edited September 28, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

newuntfan07 · September 28, 2007

I believe Dodge gets a pass for three seasons. After that, all is legendary status of a high school guru is gone. High school kids three or four years from now will have never heard of Todd Dodge and the SLC dynasty that he once was a part of.

Three years and its his record at UNT, that will decide his fate. No one has a crystal ball of what the outcome will be. We can only hope for the best. From watching the interviews on TV and on the Mean Green college site, he is slightly arrogant and that is good win your winning games but that will only go so far when your losing.

Jump on the UNT program, not the Dodge program, and lets see where it takes the University and the football program. Dodge has brought a lot of good things to the university. Give it time and UNT will know what it has after three seasons. That is not to say that the program should settle for anything but progress and positive direction.

I know people don't like to hear this but Dodge and his staff are learning on the fly about this age of college football. Dodge and his two coordinators are learning that many of the schemes they ran in HS (because of the coaching and quality of athlete) don't work at this level. But they will adjust. Patience is the name of the game right now.

Got5onIt · September 28, 2007

I believe Dodge gets a pass for three seasons. After that, all is legendary status of a high school guru is gone. High school kids three or four years from now will have never heard of Todd Dodge and the SLC dynasty that he once was a part of.
Three years and its his record at UNT, that will decide his fate. No one has a crystal ball of what the outcome will be. We can only hope for the best. From watching the interviews on TV and on the Mean Green college site, he is slightly arrogant and that is good win your winning games but that will only go so far when your losing.

I wouldn't say he gets a free pass for 3 seasons, but 3 seasons is an "understood" timeframe for marked improvement. If this team only wins 2 games this year then wins 2 again next year, all hell would break loose on these boards. :lol:

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 28, 2007

I wouldn't say he gets a free pass for 3 seasons, but 3 seasons is an "understood" timeframe for marked improvement. If this team only wins 2 games this year then wins 2 again next year, all hell would break loose on these boards.

I would have to agree with this. Dodge has to show improvement by year 3 - he doesn't have a free pass for his first 3 years.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 28, 2007

This whole "getting a pass" non-sense is the reason we have a historically crappy football program. Getting a pass? Are you kidding me? Not for one season! And, certainly not for three!

What a joke. These guys aren't working for free. People don't set aside time outside of their work and family life to support the program with the expectation that things will fall into place in 2010.

Ridiculous. Can anyone imagine any other serious college football program "giving a pass" to a coaching staff for three years? Coaches are fired after two or three seasons these days on the Division I level if they can't "figure out the college game."

There is no way in Todd Dodge's mind that he would ever buy into such baloney either. I gauran-damn-tee you he's not sitting back thinking, "Well, it doesn't matter...we've got four years to put it together anyway. These people will waste their time and money to watch us screw around for a season or two."

Give me a huge, fat, f'ing break. Todd Dodge doesn't think this way, and neither should you!

Cover and win. Execute the plays and win. No excuses. Win and shut up and win some more. If not, cut the charade and drop in back down to I-AA (or whatever they call it this year) status.

Unbelievable.

Edited September 28, 2007 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

GreenAlums · September 28, 2007

This whole "getting a pass" non-sense is the reason we have a historically crappy football program. Getting a pass? Are you kidding me? Not for one season! And, certainly not for three!
What a joke. These guys aren't working for free. People don't set aside time outside of their work and family life to support the program with the expectation that things will fall into place in 2010.
Ridiculous. Can anyone imagine any other serious college football program "giving a pass" to a coaching staff for three years? Coaches are fired after two or three seasons these days on the Division I level if they can't "figure out the college game."
There is no way in Todd Dodge's mind that he would ever buy into such baloney either. I gauran-damn-tee you he's not sitting back thinking, "Well, it doesn't matter...we've got four years to put it together anyway. These people will waste their time and money to watch us screw around for a season or two."
Give me a huge, fat, f'ing break. Todd Dodge doesn't think this way, and neither should you!
Cover and win. Execute the plays and win. No excuses. Win and shut up and win some more. If not, cut the charade and drop in back down to I-AA (or whatever they call it this year) status.
Unbelievable.

Outstanding post! Keep thinking, I like that!!!

shaft · September 28, 2007

Your all insane.

3-seasons is the norm for showing an improvement. With the exception of Shelly getting bounced from OU I can't of many 1 year time frames. No one is going to put up with two seasons and no improvement, but we've already seen improvement. The new offense is a big improvement, it just needs time (like a season or two).

I'm glad to see some fan transfer from Southlake to UNT, but pretending everything is the same and trying to back it up with HS stats is an apples to grapes comparission.

GreenAlums · September 28, 2007

Your all insane.
3-seasons is the norm for showing an improvement. With the exception of Shelly getting bounced from OU I can't of many 1 year time frames. No one is going to put up with two seasons and no improvement, but we've already seen improvement. The new offense is a big improvement, it just needs time (like a season or two).
I'm glad to see some fan transfer from Southlake to UNT, but pretending everything is the same and trying to back it up with HS stats is an apples to grapes comparission.

But you are giving TD no credit for the integrity, skill, will, and ability to be on top faster than the average "new" coach. Anybody that thinks he is average is NUTS! We have a winner coach and it's gonna be great fun to support him and watch him obtain the same outcomes professionally that we want athletically at UNT! I think we are all saying the same thing but with emphasis on different parts. GMG!

Smitty · September 28, 2007

I have a suggestion for a measuring stick for the program: Kansas State under Bill Snyder.

Snyder had a much more daunting task: raise the worst program in America in the middle of one of the toughest conferences in the country. In Snyder's first three year he went 1-10, but after that he went 5-6 and 7-4. Personally, I don't grade UNT this season on wins and losses but rather on how the program and players develop and improve. However, I think it is a reasonable bottom-line expectation for North Texas to post a .500 record next year and a winning record the following year.

SLCoutsider · September 29, 2007

I'm glad to see some fan transfer from Southlake to UNT, but pretending everything is the same and trying to back it up with HS stats is an apples to grapes comparission.

The HS stats were only to show that TD values the running game. And I never said 5A was the same as Sunbelt. It's a long thread so I don't blame you for skimming through the posts and jumping to incorrect conclusions.

PlummMeanGreen · September 29, 2007

The HS stats were only to show that TD values the running game. And I never said 5A was the same as Sunbelt. It's a long thread so I don't blame you for skimming through the posts and jumping to incorrect conclusions.

Incorrect conclusions for sure...

Also, don't think anyone of us (including TDodge) would be upset with wins this season, but lets still look where we've been before TDodge signed as to see why what happens this season (in deed) happens (whether that be good or bad); but mostly lets still examine our recruiting the last 3-4 years as compared to even Sun Belt schools at this point in time.

Many who follow college football would still concur that what happens on Game Day will still (mostly) be determined with what happened the previous last 3-4 years on the recruiting trails.

Edited September 29, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

Monkeypox · September 29, 2007

I have a suggestion for a measuring stick for the program: Kansas State under Bill Snyder.
Snyder had a much more daunting task: raise the worst program in America in the middle of one of the toughest conferences in the country. In Snyder's first three year he went 1-10, but after that he went 5-6 and 7-4. Personally, I don't grade UNT this season on wins and losses but rather on how the program and players develop and improve. However, I think it is a reasonable bottom-line expectation for North Texas to post a .500 record next year and a winning record the following year.

Exactly.

And I think a point to be made is that our coaches, being fresh out of high school, have a certain learning curve. Many of us are willing to let that learning curve take its course before declaring the success or failure of the coaching, because we believe that the long-term outlook is better with Dodge at the helm than it has been in a long time. I have no problem being wrong on that, but it WILL take time. Naming other college coaches who've taken on similar situations still doesn't compare. We've taken a great risk in our regime change, and THAT'S why some of us aren't gonna flip out when we lose a few games right now.

ESPECIALLY given that this last game hinged on two very bad plays made by veteran players who should know better.

meangreendork · September 30, 2007

Many who follow college football would still concur that what happens on Game Day will still (mostly) be determined with what happened the previous last 3-4 years on the recruiting trails.

Very, very true. We have some of Dodge's recruits on the field now, and for the most part, they're doing fine. But we still have products of Dickey's stealth recruiting.

Here's the thing that some of us need to remember: in those years of SBC dominance, there were a lot of games won by 3-7 points. Those teams that our team would win by 21+ points against started to make those wins smaller and smaller until they would outright win. Part of this is the result of losing Tom DeLoach. A lot of it...probably ALL of it has to do with the fact that the differences in player skill between UNT and the rest of the SBC got smaller and smaller every season. Now our team faces a better NCAA lineup and a better SBC lineup than they ever have before. I'm not cutting TD a free pass, because he has to post some wins. I am NOT however, demanding a 7-4 season right now.