Unreasonable Expectations

Got5onIt · September 25, 2007

Back to the points, I still don't understand how D1 ball is so much different and more complex than 5A ball. That's why I ask if anyone has seen Southlake (or any other top HS program)? Sure, adjustments have to be made because the athletes are bigger, stronger, and faster in D1. But what else is so different? I've watched a bunch of HS ball besides Southlake and it's gotten pretty darn sophisticated. What do we think SMU and FAU did that Dodge and Mendoza haven't seen before?

How about wtaching 5A ball, playing 5A ball, & college ball. Does that count?

Well, you hit on it. The athletes are bigger, stronger, faster, and SMARTER. This changes what works and what doesn't. Don't discount how much these changes effect the game of football and gameplans on both sides of the ball. It makes all the difference in the world. Offenses & defenses are so much more sophisticated at this level. To help you understand, it's why the countertrap is a bread-n-butter play for many High Schools but a rarely run play in college. It's why the option works in college but not the NFL. It's the reason we see lots of zone blitzes in college and the NFL and not in high school. In high school 1 player can dominate a game and teams can gameplan an entire offense/defense around them. This does not happen at the next level. It's not so much as SMU & FAU have surprised our coaches with freakishly new things, football is still football, but I do believe that the cliche "putting your players in positions to succeed" is the gospel at this level. It all boils down to understanding the physical abilities of your entire team, your opponent, and adjusting to that when need be.

Edited September 25, 2007 by Got5onIt

kj86 · September 25, 2007

And how is expecting .500 or better a reasonable expectation when they only won 2 games last year? Considering the coaching staff changes and new system learning curve, it seems like a reasonable expectation is to win 2 games this year. Any more would be an aspirational target. The fact that some other new D1 coaches have started off better, doesn't mean that we should expect this one to.

I'll admit that my expectations coming into this season were quite low. New system, new coach, few starters recruited by new coach, a couple of bad seasons leading in, previous coach left things a mess. I was just hoping we'd cut out stupid mistakes, have some discipline and generally look better losing and maybe win 2 or 3 games along the way. All of these things are still attainable, but DADFREAKINGUM if we shouldn't already have two wins. I think that's what's got everyone worked up.

PlummMeanGreen · September 25, 2007

Darrell Dickey's 1'st four years:

1998....3-8

1999....2-9

2000....3-8

2001....5-6

DD had my full support as a MG fan for his first 6 years in Denton and some of you know that for fact; it was the last 2 where he lost me (and countless others) and that not just because of his coaching but for what many of us thought were some terrifically bonehead PR gaffes that he should have known better in doing (since he grew up surrounded by upper level D1-A football programs due to his dad's coaching years).

Even with DD's slow start at UNT, many of us said: "Well, let's give him time to let him get his kids in here." BTW, that usually takes about 4 years to happen for a coach to get "his kids" (almost) fully into his program.

Now Coach Dodge is in town and he has already raised some Mean Green fan base from the dead because he is in Denton. Toward the end of last football season, a very loyal MG fan since the 1940's was ready to throw in the towel had DD been given a 9'th year to be our HFC. Saw him the other night, and he is fully backing of our new TDodge era. Yet come on now, folks, if DD had been coaching the other night (with probably the same 0 & 2 record leading into the FAU game), just how many Mean Green fans does anyone truly think DD Ball would have drawn against FAU?

Yet, with largely DD talent (and there is some with talent he left behind), yet Dodge is supposed to resurrect a team (with too many off the field discipline problems from the DD Days that would curl some of your hair to even talk about); yet Dodge is supposed to "suddenly" take the last 2 seasons/5 win group of talent and turn it around in his Year One in Denton? (I defer to the top of this post and DD's 1'st four years W/L record in Denton for those who seem to think TDodge is apparently not deserving of a similar span of time to get "his kids into the Mean Green Villege" and to get his foundation-building started).

Back in "late" December when we hired Coach Dodge, I said with what he inherited, maybe 3 or 4 wins in 2007--others said the same. Do we want more that that? Is the Pope Catholic? Is Billy Graham Baptist? I still think by Year 3 Coach Dodge will have his first above .500 season, but lets also not forget the SBC he also inherited; hardly the same SBC that DD was a pioneer coach in as the league was in its formative years most would say.

BTW, if Coach Dodge is above .500 in Year 2 (2008) there will be no complaints from anyone I know (including myself).

GMG!

Edited September 25, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

island eagle · September 25, 2007

I agree 100%. Nobody expects the impossible, but at this level, fans are going to ask questions about problems they see. I would worry more if we were 0-3, lost two very winnable games, and didn't ask any questions. I would assume that Coach Dodge knew that this is how it is at the college level and is not surprised that some people are asking these questions. In fact, I hope he is asking the very same questions.

risinggreen · September 25, 2007

Back to the points, I still don't understand how D1 ball is so much different and more complex than 5A ball.

One of the more obvious and simplest differences between the two is the age and physical development of the participants. You can have 14 year old 9th grade KIDS playing high school ball (I was one of them), whereas you generally have 20+ year old MEN playing college ball. I firmly believe that he'll get it done, but it's a very different ball game.

meangreendork · September 25, 2007

[originally posted on banished thread http://www.gomeangreen.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=36590 ]
Geeze, I can't believe the high expectations that some folks have. Isn't this the team that only won 4 games in the past two years?
All this griping about high-school coaches and somehow D1 ball is a completely different game that they can't grasp. And UNT should be winning right now. I don't get it. This is UNT and the Sunbelt conference whose highest aspiration is the New Orleans bowl. It's not like TD is going from 3A to the SEC. You're lucky to get an up and coming coach who is excited about the opportunity and has a vision for improving the program at many different levels. Would you rather have a seasoned "D1" guy that has already made his way around numerous mediocre teams and is just settling for the UNT job? I would even argue that TD is more seasoned than most D1 coaches. He's been studying the game for over 30 years. He started on a UT team that was ranked #2 in the nation for awhile. Just because he cut his coaching teeth in HS doesn't mean he's some kind of babe in the woods now that he's in the big-time Sunbelt. Enjoy these next few years because he'll probably move on to a more big-time program after he's cleaned up this mess.
Also, I don't get this notion that the TD offense is all about passing and the RB only blocks. Have any of the folks saying this actually seen a Southlake game? It's a balanced offense and they take what the defense gives them. Tre Newton had 274 carries and 2,010 yards last year. Aaron Luna had similar numbers before him. Not bad for guys who only block for their QB. I'm not saying that UNT is going to be just like Southlake, but TD understands the value of the running game and he understands how to tailor the system to take advantage of the individual talent on hand. I know everyone wanted to see more Jmo in the 2nd quarter, but I'm sure there's a logical explanantion for why we didn't.

What the hell, man? You wanna know something? We do have high expectations. Any fan of any school should have high expectations. Settling for "just good enough" is partially why UNT ended up with just the 4 wins instead of kicking Dickey to the curb a long time ago. I mean, would you settle for just "good enough" at SLC? No. We have big expectations of TD because we know what he's capable of. We also know his history, how he started at UT, coached at UNT (which you conveniently forgot), had moderate success at other high schools, then started his big run at SLC. We're not stupid.

None of us are treating him like he doesn't know what he's doing and none of us are demeaning his high school coaching experience. We are saying that college and HS ball are different, college ball being harder and faster. It's the same way we'll tell you that even top-ranked BCS is different than lower tier NFL.

We also know that TD's offense isn't all passing. Why? Logically, you can't win every game with the same gameplan for 71 games. We know he adjusts the offense, and we know that when he sees running work, he runs, and the same for passing. That's why we saw Jamario Thomas run.

Sounds like you're calling us on ignorance, and we're not. We have high expectations of someone with the ability to carry them out and who ALREADY HAS made big steps in doing so. If you go back and read a lot of the posting here, you'll read something like this when we're criticizing him:

"Dodge's (whatever gameplan) didn't work. (Insert critical statement) should have been (whatever needs to be). But, he's making positive strides in (gameplan/practices/discipline/player attitude/alumni support/recruiting) and that's (positive adjective here)."

We love this guy. Really, we do. He's got challenges ahead, but we know he can handle them. We're also not expecting a 12-0 season. Most of us are fine with a .5 but hoping for something like a 7-4 or a 6-5 season.

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 26, 2007

True, true. It was bad enough at 5 - no need to lower it.

Cooley · September 26, 2007

I think the majority of posters on this board are happy that Todd Dodge is the coach of the University of North Texas.

Dodge, however, should be more thankful for the Southlake Carroll & UNT opportunity rather than UNT fans being thankful to have Dodge. Carroll was very successful before Dodge's arrival; while Dodge was just a former UT quarterback that became a HS head coach. (at his previous stops)

In their 44-season history, the Dragons have produced an all-time record of 398-126-8. They have been particularly impressive in the last 20 seasons, winning seven state titles in eight championship game appearances. Carroll's record the last 20 seasons is 244-39-1, including a state-record 72-game regular-season winning streak from 1986 to 1993 under coach Bob Ledbetter. Ledbetter led the Dragons to statewide prominence with three 3A state titles in 1988, 1992 and 1993.

Todd Dodge before Southlake Carroll:

Season Team Wins Losses Notes:

1994 Cameron Yoe 3 7

1995 Cameron Yoe 5 5

1996 Carrollton Newman Smith 4 6

1997 Carrollton Newman Smith 5 5

1998 Fort Worth Fossil Ridge 2 7

1999 Fort Worth Fossil Ridge 5 5

It's all about the talent of the players and the support of the program!!!

meangreendork · September 26, 2007

My bad. Point is, we like Dodge, we expect a lot. We don't mean it to be an insult.

Smitty · September 26, 2007

Back to the points, I still don't understand how D1 ball is so much different and more complex than 5A ball. That's why I ask if anyone has seen Southlake (or any other top HS program)? Sure, adjustments have to be made because the athletes are bigger, stronger, and faster in D1. But what else is so different? I've watched a bunch of HS ball besides Southlake and it's gotten pretty darn sophisticated. What do we think SMU and FAU did that Dodge and Mendoza haven't seen before?

It has been mentioned that college athletes are far better, but here's another difference: the coaches are far better.

Each level up is an all-star game of the previous level, which goes for players and coaches. Superior athletes allow for a more complex game, requiring deeper levels of understanding and allowing less room for error. Things that might have worked at one level might not work as well at the next, whether the move is from smaller high schools to larger high schools (G.A. Moore was a dominant legend in Class 2A but he struggled in his brief time in 5A), smaller colleges to larger colleges (Dirk Koetter did well at Boise State but struggled in the Pac Ten), and from college to the pros (ol' ball coach Steve Spurrier failed miserably with the Redskins).

Sure, there are coaches who succeed at the next level, and I truly believe Coach Dodge will be one of those. But college football is an entirely different game than high school football. That's a big reason why teams like to bring a player like Vizza along slowly and let him learn before throwing him in the deep end. As good as the OU quarterback has been this year, remember that he redshirted last year and so had a full season to learn the college game. Coach Dodge and his staff don't have that luxury. They're learning the hard way.

For us fans, the difficult part is to properly mix patience with expectations. While we should be patient, fans who pay as much as we do have the right to have expectations of success. And although I do not know Coach Dodge, I'll bet you cash money that his expectations are higher than ours.

Edited September 26, 2007 by Smitty

FirefightnRick · September 26, 2007

I think the majority of posters on this board are happy that Todd Dodge is the coach of the University of North Texas.
Dodge, however, should be more thankful for the Southlake Carroll & UNT opportunity rather than UNT fans being thankful to have Dodge. Carroll was very successful before Dodge's arrival; while Dodge was just a former UT quarterback that became a HS head coach. (at his previous stops)

In their 44-season history, the Dragons have produced an all-time record of 398-126-8. They have been particularly impressive in the last 20 seasons, winning seven state titles in eight championship game appearances. Carroll's record the last 20 seasons is 244-39-1, including a state-record 72-game regular-season winning streak from 1986 to 1993 under coach Bob Ledbetter. Ledbetter led the Dragons to statewide prominence with three 3A state titles in 1988, 1992 and 1993.
Todd Dodge before Southlake Carroll:
Season Team Wins Losses Notes:
1994 Cameron Yoe 3 7
1995 Cameron Yoe 5 5
1996 Carrollton Newman Smith 4 6
1997 Carrollton Newman Smith 5 5
1998 Fort Worth Fossil Ridge 2 7
1999 Fort Worth Fossil Ridge 5 5
It's all about the talent of the players and the support of the program!!!

So he turned three different programs into .500 teams by his second season? I wished we could find some of that here in Weatherford. I'm just curious, what was SLC's record from '95 to '99 before Dodge arrived?

Regardless I remain sold on the fact that it absolutely is not ALL about the talent of the players but more about the coach, especially at the High School level.

And for the record and now I believe, third time ever, I agree with TFLF. I went back and reread the first post again(I admit I scanned over it too quickly the first time) and Finch said it best. I didn't expect to see us win out this year but I certainly expected improvement. And in many regards I see a lot of improvement including excitement of the program, an exciting offense and an overall winning attitude as well. I will continue to remember that this is a rebuilding year but I expect to see coaches working hard to make adjustments, players hustling and a gradual improvement with each week. Considering the hole NT is trying to climb out of I can't ask for more than that this season.

Rick

Smitty · September 26, 2007

Besides, who wants to coach a program with a bunch of fans who don't give a rip?

STE · September 26, 2007

Back to the points, I still don't understand how D1 ball is so much different and more complex than 5A ball. That's why I ask if anyone has seen Southlake (or any other top HS program)? Sure, adjustments have to be made because the athletes are bigger, stronger, and faster in D1. But what else is so different? I've watched a bunch of HS ball besides Southlake and it's gotten pretty darn sophisticated. What do we think SMU and FAU did that Dodge and Mendoza haven't seen before?

He's now going up against Stoops and Schnellenberger - guys who have won national championships. It's a little different than coaching against someone else in "District Play".

B/t/w - the TFLF - one of the best posts I've read in a long time. Thanks for making my day.

Cooley · September 26, 2007

Miami Northwestern is currently #1 because of it's talent! (1st year coach) Cedar Hill loaded up with talent last year and was the best 5A team in the state. Historically, talent and/or a small town one high school team wins championships; it's resources (which translate into better coaching) Not so much because of a great coach.

Recent examples of very talented teams with multiple D1 prospects (or resources of smaller towns)

1982

5A - Beaumont West Brook 21, Hurst Bell 10

4A - Sugar Land Willowridge 22, Corsicana 17

1983

5A - Converse Judson 25, Midland Lee 21

4A - Bay City 30, Lubbock Estacado 0

1984

5A - Odessa Permian 21, Beaumont French 21 (tie) CO-CHAMPIONS

4A - Denison 27, Tomball 13

1985

5A - Houston Yates 37, Odessa Permian 0

1986

4A - West Orange-Stark 21, McKinney 9

1987

4A - West Orange-Stark 17, Rockwall 7

1988

5A - Dallas Carter 31, Converse Judson 14

1989

5A - Odessa Permian, 28, Aldine 14

4A - Chapel Hill (Tyler) 14, A&M Consolidated 0

1990

5A Division I - Marshall 21, Converse Judson 19

5A Division II - Aldine 27, Arlington Lamar 10

4A - Wilmer-Hutchins 19, Westlake (Austin) 7

3A - Vernon 41, Crockett 20

1991

5A Division I - Killeen 14, Sugar Land Dulles 10

5A Division II - Odessa Permian 27, San Antonio Marshall 14

1992

5A Division I - Converse Judson 52, Euless Trinity 0

5A Division II - Temple 38, Houston Yates 20

4A - Waxahachie 28, A&M Consolidated 24

1993

5A Division I - Converse Judson 36, Plano 13

5A Division II - Lewisville 43, Aldine MacArthur 37

1994

5A Division II - Tyler John Tyler 35, Westlake (Austin) 24

1995

5A Division I - Converse Judson 31, Odessa Permian 28

4A - La Marque 31, Denison 8

1996

4A Division II - La Marque 34, Denison 3

1997

4A Division I - Texas City 37, Corsicana 34

4A Division II - La Marque 17, Denison 0

1998

5A Division I - Duncanville 24, Converse Judson 21

5A Division II - Midland Lee 54, San Antonio MacArthur 0

1999

5A Division I - Midland Lee 42, Aldine Eisenhower 21

5A Division II - Garland 37, Katy 25

4A Division I - Texas City 27, Hereford 14

2000

5A Division I - Midland Lee 33, Westlake (Austin) 21

4A Division I - Bay City 24, Denton Ryan 2

4A Division II - Ennis 38, West Orange-Stark 24

2001

5A Division I - Mesquite 14, San Antonio Taft 13

5A Division II - Lufkin 38, Westlake (Austin) 24

4A Division I - Denton Ryan 42, Smithson Valley 35 - OT

2002

4A Division I - Texarkana 42, New Braunfels 11

4A Division II - Denton Ryan 38, Brenham 8

3A Division I - Everman 35, Burnet 14

2003

5A Division I - Galena Pk North Shore 23, Conroe The Woodlands 7

4A Division I - North Crowley 20, Bay City 6

4A Division II - La Marque 43, Denton Ryan 35 - OT(3)

3A Division I - Gainesville 35, Burnet 24

3A Division II - Atlanta 34, Marlin 0

2004

5A Division I - Tyler Lee 28, Spring Westfield 21

4A Division II - Kilgore 33, Dallas Lincoln 27 - OT(2)

2005

5A Division I - Euless Trinity 28, Converse Judson 14

2006

5A Division II - Cedar Hill 51, Cypress Falls 17

4A Division II - La Marque 34, Waco 14

NCMeanGreen · September 26, 2007

So far, we have seen the second worse defeat in our long history and the loss of two games in the final quarter. An appearance in the ESPN Bottom Ten is surely coming and I can't recall us ever being there.

Yes.. we are in the ESPN Bottom 10

SLCoutsider · September 26, 2007

He's now going up against Stoops and Schnellenberger - guys who have won national championships. It's a little different than coaching against someone else in "District Play".

STE, not to pick on this particular post, but this is one of the themes that motivated me to start this thread. If we're going to give Schnellenberger accolodes for his national championship and put D1 coaching on a pedestal, let's also give Dodge some credit for his accomplishments and not describe his HS coaching experience as "District Play". Over the past 5 years, his teams have extended their seasons through long playoff schedules beating the best non-district 5A programs in the state. Everybody knows this, but yet some folks seem to think it doens't really count for much since it was only HS and the college game is so much more sophisticated.

The best 5A programs in the state are pretty sophisticated and coached by smart people. From a scheme and sophistication aspect, I don't think going from 5A state championship caliber opponents to the SBC is quite as big a jump as some folks are making it out to be.

untbowler · September 26, 2007

STE, not to pick on this particular post, but this is one of the themes that motivated me to start this thread. If we're going to give Schnellenberger accolodes for his national championship and put D1 coaching on a pedestal, let's also give Dodge some credit for his accomplishments and not describe his HS coaching experience as "District Play". Over the past 5 years, his teams have extended their seasons through long playoff schedules beating the best non-district 5A programs in the state. Everybody knows this, but yet some folks seem to think it doens't really count for much since it was only HS and the college game is so much more sophisticated.
The best 5A programs in the state are pretty sophisticated and coached by smart people. From a scheme and sophistication aspect, I don't think going from 5A state championship caliber opponents to the SBC is quite as big a jump as some folks are making it out to be.

Um have you seen our HS DC and the points and yards given up? Yes his defense worked great in HS, but it has not and will not translate to the Colleg level unless he makes changes/adjustments. Dodge put his faith in him so Dodge is ultimately responsible.

Does the offense work pretty obivous it does, but the defense and special teams have been a failure for the most part.

newuntfan07 · September 26, 2007

SLCOutsider,

I agree with a lot of your posts. But for example, in the Westlake-state championship game, if memory serves me correctly, Westlake wasn't even lined up over a WR on one or two Touchdown throws trying to get personnel in the game and SLC had wide open receivers for touchdowns. That is the the kind of stuff that you will not see at the collegiate level.

Dodge outsmarted many high school coaches. Dodge and his staff don't teach in school, they are coaches only. Many schools have their coaches teaching most of the day and that can make a difference.

Dodge's spread is nothing new for many of the programs we play. Dodge and the mean green are going to have to out execute our opponents. Dodge will not flat out (out coach'em) any more.

Smitty · September 26, 2007

Think of it like playing chess. The board is the same, the pieces are the same, the rules are the same. But as the opposition improves, you are required to think and play and react at higher and higher levels. The game itself hasn't changed, but the competition is completely different.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 26, 2007

Look, the reason for people's responses is not to throw high school football or Todd Dodge under the bus.

The simple fact is that the thread began with a tone that we should be grateful, patient, etc. Well, we didn't all just fall off the apple cart. Many of us here expected that we'd have a losing season this year. Believe me, I never thought we'd go above .500 this year.

However, as we have all seen, I and many other are just a few coaching decision and players making plays from being very wrong. We could just a easily be sitting at 2-1 as we are 0-3. It's the way we are 0-3 instead of 2-1 that has people raising legitimate questions.

I'm not going to sit and blow sunshine up anyone's backside (if you don't believe me, check my post history and see how many times I've been in the minority of opinion on things). I openly questioned whether it was a good idea to bring in so many coaches without college experience. I openly questioned whether or not the current strength and conditioning coach would understand the need for more endurance given the offense Dodge was going to install.

Each loss has revealed some doubts to be at least worthy of discussion:

First, it's true that the defensive staff seemed completely unprepared for what happened at OU. And, as unprepared as they were, they were also unable or unwilling to make changes during the course of the game.

Second, it's true that SMU has the worst defense in the country, and possibly the worst offense to match it. We went up 14-3 early, then faded, then fell behind, then tied it, then choked it away. We made their QB look like John Elway or Brett Favre. Again, the secondary burned over and over again.

It was then that many people began to say, look it was one thing for it to happen at OU, but it's completely another for it to happen against crappy SMU. (And, yes, even though they beat us, they are crappy...uber crappy).

Third, against FAU, at home, we are out in front in the third quarter and begin to choke it away. Again, a long pass is the culprit. But, more disturbing, after the game both head coaches agree that changes in FAU's defensive scheme turned the game. That means that during the second half while FAU's defense was turning the tide, the coaches on our sideline and in our pressbox were unable to counter FAU's in-game adjustments.

Finally, during the FAU game, the one facet other than passing that had been 110% excellent in games one and two completely fell apart. I'm talking about the punt game. Of anything that worked at OU, it was Truman Spencer and the punt team not allowing their return guy to break anything.

Against FAU, it's not one blocked punt, but two...one in the first half and one in the second half. That means that at halftime, whatever assignment that was missed on the first punt either wasn't taken seriously enough to be addressed, or Schnellenberger is just a genius for emphasizing special teams the week before. Again, for whatever reason, the rare two punt-block evening helped cement our second half collapse.

Folks, it's obvious to all except the very stubborn or stupid that Division I college athletes are far superior to even the highest level of Texas high school ball players. I've said it before and been chastised for it, but it bears repeating now (for the sake of Whites Stripes) - 90% of high school football players are simply on the team to better their chances with the cheerleaders and drill team. I mean, seriously. Why else would so many 5'7", 130 pound white kids across the country, from good homes, risk serious injury week after week? They do it all for the nookie, come on the nookie....

At the Division I-A collegiate level it's different. The 10% who actually bothered with real off-season work and film study in high school are now on scholarship at Division I schools across the country. They are, even on the worst teams, the elite of what was high school football. And, they are altogether.

That's why against Oklahoma, who rolls out sporting Malcolm Kelly, an acrobat of an athlete, and Juaquin Iglesias, a kid with sub-4.4 track speed, at receiver, you can't simply stick some kid on them that you picked up from a junior college two months ago...all night long! I mean, OU had a tight end that was on their second team that was like 6-7 and ran like a frakin' gazelle! And, we're going to man up on these guys...all night long? With no help?

Hey, I was just as sucked in as everyone else. I even posted in defense of Mendoza afterward with this type of drivel - "Well, maybe that's just the way this defense is" and tough love and a bunch of other bullcrap that shows how stupid I am.

After watching SMU and FAU make long pass plays when they needed them, seemingly at will, I now realize I was probably more right over the summer - we needed more coaches with college experience in order to understand what type of adjustments need to be made against rosters full of other college athletes.

Edited September 26, 2007 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

RamoneArchie · September 26, 2007

It definately takes talent to win at any level. It gets harder and harder to "outcoach" people the higher you go. I know i've coached some very talented teams and no matter what we were going to win because of that talent. I have also been in games where we weren't the most talented and have come out victorious. Dodge has had very talented teams at SLC. His coaching ability added to that talent created a powerhouse. Earlier in his career his coaching ability plus not as much talent didn't fare to well. Check out the win loss records before SLC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Dodge

PlummMeanGreen · September 26, 2007

It definately takes talent to win at any level. It gets harder and harder to "outcoach" people the higher you go. I know i've coached some very talented teams and no matter what we were going to win because of that talent. I have also been in games where we weren't the most talented and have come out victorious. Dodge has had very talented teams at SLC. His coaching ability added to that talent created a powerhouse. Earlier in his career his coaching ability plus not as much talent didn't fare to well. Check out the win loss records before SLC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Dodge

I think most would also agree the 3 previous times we played Howard Schnellenberger's FAU that we were definitely out-coached. Our first ever loss to FAU was when they were an NCAA 1-AA football program. OUCH! I believe 2 others of those times we got out-coached (and beat) by FAU were against 2 of our bowl-bound teams, too. Hmmm? Wonder if FAU had been official SBC members then who would have gone to the NO's Bowl? (And ask Silver Eagle about the "out-coached" subject, he confronted a UNT assistant coach on this very subject after half time of a game last year and almost caused a riot in the reserved section)! :lol:

Lets Look At The Other Side of the Coin With All This: With 5 wins the last 2 seasons from players that still (basically) comprise our 2007 football team, might our near wins over SMU and FAU be considered progress? Dodge will have all his recruits in about 4 years and like DD was given more time than most in 8 years to get his cumalative W/L record above .500 (which BTW never happened), I feel UNT will more than do the same for TDodge because of so many of the other positive changes that have taken place off the field and most of you know exactly what I am talking about with that.

I do agree that our Mean Green "D" needs some serious tweakin'; but I think it a bit pre-mature to be calling for a Defensive Coordinator's head.

Ad Nausem Phrase Time: :rolleyes: Folks, nothing profound with this oft' used phrase of late, but we really are a work in progress and based on the last 2 football seasons and the last 4-5 recrutiing years, I don't think too many who really take the time to think all this out clearly would disagree.

I still like the upside even after starting 0 & 3 because I believe this UNT coaching staff (which may have to have changes among assistants in time) still will get us our first ranked Mean Green football program since the Hayden Fry era. I never thought that would happen under Darrell Dickey even during a 4 year bowl run. Did any of you really believe we would with what used to be our attitude toward what some of you call Body Bag Games and our almost non-success over the last 8 years with all those higher profile OOC games?

I know the few "DD as UNT HFC" supporters who are left are eating some of this up with Dodge's (expected by most of us) slow start, but they should get their kicks in while they can. One thing about it, DD never coached in a much improved SBC that Dodge is now coaching in; or maybe I should take that back, that is, DD's last 2 years at UNT were in a much improved Sun Belt Conference and I suppose our last 2 year's record speaks for itself. Also, black jerseys allowed to be used by our team for home games toward the end of last season also made some pretty large statements themselves as to what we really had going on up there, too, and probably for a longer amount of time than some would fess up to or admit.

Edited September 26, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

SLCoutsider · September 26, 2007

TFLF and others, thanks for the great responses. I am starting to get it. If there's a silver lining in this 0-3 start, hopefully it's forcing the coaching staff to recognize their own weaknesses and address them early in the season before we are too far into conference play.

Cerebus · September 26, 2007

TFLF and others, thanks for the great responses. I am starting to get it. If there's a silver lining in this 0-3 start, hopefully it's forcing the coaching staff to recognize their own weaknesses and address them early in the season before we are too far into conference play.

Did... Did some one just admit.... they might be wrong... on GoMeanGreen.com?!?!?!

Ack! Chest Pains! :pinch: Someone call 911....