Unreasonable Expectations

SLCoutsider · September 25, 2007

Geeze, I can't believe the high expectations that some folks have. Isn't this the team that only won 4 games in the past two years?

All this griping about high-school coaches and somehow D1 ball is a completely different game that they can't grasp. And UNT should be winning right now. I don't get it. This is UNT and the Sunbelt conference whose highest aspiration is the New Orleans bowl. It's not like TD is going from 3A to the SEC. You're lucky to get an up and coming coach who is excited about the opportunity and has a vision for improving the program at many different levels. Would you rather have a seasoned "D1" guy that has already made his way around numerous mediocre teams and is just settling for the UNT job? I would even argue that TD is more seasoned than most D1 coaches. He's been studying the game for over 30 years. He started on a UT team that was ranked #2 in the nation for awhile. Just because he cut his coaching teeth in HS doesn't mean he's some kind of babe in the woods now that he's in the big-time Sunbelt. Enjoy these next few years because he'll probably move on to a more big-time program after he's cleaned up this mess.

Also, I don't get this notion that the TD offense is all about passing and the RB only blocks. Have any of the folks saying this actually seen a Southlake game? It's a balanced offense and they take what the defense gives them. Tre Newton had 274 carries and 2,010 yards last year. Aaron Luna had similar numbers before him. Not bad for guys who only block for their QB. I'm not saying that UNT is going to be just like Southlake, but TD understands the value of the running game and he understands how to tailor the system to take advantage of the individual talent on hand. I know everyone wanted to see more Jmo in the 2nd quarter, but I'm sure there's a logical explanantion for why we didn't.

Back to the original point, I think Mizzou's style of offense is still the best vision of what UNT might become.

Edited September 28, 2007 by SLCoutsider

UNTFan23 · September 25, 2007

Judging by what I've seen, it looks like teams we've played thus far don't respect our passing game at all so they are daring us to prove them otherwise, which is why FAU changed its defensive strategy and starting blitzing us in the 2nd half. We are seeing that we have made great strides in the passing game, which is why we're posting some pretty good numbers ... until a defense starts putting pressure on us. What we need to do next is start responding favorably under that pressure and then I think we'll see some pretty good offensive productivity no matter what a defense throws at us.

Got5onIt · September 25, 2007

[originally posted on banished thread http://www.gomeangreen.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=36590 ]
Geeze, I can't believe the high expectations that some folks have. Isn't this the team that only won 4 games in the past two years?
All this griping about high-school coaches and somehow D1 ball is a completely different game that they can't grasp. And UNT should be winning right now. I don't get it. This is UNT and the Sunbelt conference whose highest aspiration is the New Orleans bowl. It's not like TD is going from 3A to the SEC. You're lucky to get an up and coming coach who is excited about the opportunity and has a vision for improving the program at many different levels. Would you rather have a seasoned "D1" guy that has already made his way around numerous mediocre teams and is just settling for the UNT job? I would even argue that TD is more seasoned than most D1 coaches. He's been studying the game for over 30 years. He started on a UT team that was ranked #2 in the nation for awhile. Just because he cut his coaching teeth in HS doesn't mean he's some kind of babe in the woods now that he's in the big-time Sunbelt. Enjoy these next few years because he'll probably move on to a more big-time program after he's cleaned up this mess.
Also, I don't get this notion that the TD offense is all about passing and the RB only blocks. Have any of the folks saying this actually seen a Southlake game? It's a balanced offense and they take what the defense gives them. Tre Newton had 274 carries and 2,010 yards last year. Aaron Luna had similar numbers before him. Not bad for guys who only block for their QB. I'm not saying that UNT is going to be just like Southlake, but TD understands the value of the running game and he understands how to tailor the system to take advantage of the individual talent on hand. I know everyone wanted to see more Jmo in the 2nd quarter, but I'm sure there's a logical explanantion for why we didn't.
Back to the original point, I think Mizzou's style of offense is still the best vision of what UNT might become.

I knew this attitude was bound to show up sooner or later. Pitiful North Texas should be thankful for what they get because Mr.Big will be kicking you to the curb anyway.

I don't think anyone is disputing Todd Dodge's ability as a coach. His high school record proves that. Oh and just in case you didn't know this Dodge "cut his teeth" in the NCAA division long before he became the face of the Dragons.

Many of us like to think that the talent level on this team is not as "bad" as you or any other "outsider" likes to believe. Just looking at the strides the offense has made proves this. You couldn't have told me at this time last year that this offensive unit would be throwing for 600yds and scoring 30+ points through the air. Hell, most on here would've loudly laughed in your face. Because of the offense, I'd like to think the defensive unit would follow suite in improvement. Do you blame anyone who thought the same with 9 returning starters on the defensive side of the ball???

Did I believe NT would post a winning record? Absolutely not. But I fully expected them to float around .500 and can't help but think this will not be possible.

The game is different between high school and college. Only the naive believe it is not.

Edited September 25, 2007 by Got5onIt

Green Lantern · September 25, 2007

I'm also gonna agree with Got5onIt about the tone of the threadstarter and "Little ol NT should be grateful we got TD". Such a ridiculous ascertion. We had several quality candidates besides Dodge that could have been coaching this team that are not D-1 has-beens. Jim Harbaugh, Jay Norvell, and Jimbo Fisher to name a few. Would you consider them mediocre "D1 re-treads?"

Let me preface the following coments by saying that I like Dodge, and think he will bring us winning football sooner than later. So far, he(TD) has not provided us with a win. He is going to get some criticism for that. SMU and FAU were obviously (watch the games) winnable games, and we have melted down in the fourth quarter both times, eventually costing us these games. Some of the MG faithful claimed that they would be willing weather the storm early in Dodge's regime, others did not. Please don't generalize. I don't think that most of the criticism on GMG is unjustified. Defense that has performed below expectations, as well as a QB performing inconsistently are the main things that people are questioning. Are these not the things that are significantly contributing to the team losing the SMU and FAU games?

Edited September 25, 2007 by Green Lantern

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 25, 2007

Enjoy these next few years because he'll probably move on to a more big-time program after he's cleaned up this mess.
Also, I don't get this notion that the TD offense is all about passing and the RB only blocks. Have any of the folks saying this actually seen a Southlake game? It's a balanced offense and they take what the defense gives them. Tre Newton had 274 carries and 2,010 yards last year. Aaron Luna had similar numbers before him. Not bad for guys who only block for their QB. I'm not saying that UNT is going to be just like Southlake, but TD understands the value of the running game and he understands how to tailor the system to take advantage of the individual talent on hand. I know everyone wanted to see more Jmo in the 2nd quarter, but I'm sure there's a logical explanantion for why we didn't.

You don't have to really ask the question if they have seen SLC games or for that matter spread offenses to answer your question. Most of the people that I know that seem to ask these questions, when I ask them if they have seen a "spread" type offense very much, they respond "no". Most people just assume that means no running. These are probably many of the same people that think the only way a "2" point bucket is scored in bball is a dunk - which is probably why they think it is all pass - typically the pass play, like the dunk is what makes the highlights.

For the statement we need to "Enjoy these next few years" - if you think we are hard on a coach (which I don't really see anyone on here having a problem with or giving up on Dodge) just wait till he goes to a BCS school.

foutsrouts · September 25, 2007

[originally posted on banished thread http://www.gomeangreen.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=36590 ]
Geeze, I can't believe the high expectations that some folks have. Isn't this the team that only won 4 games in the past two years?
All this griping about high-school coaches and somehow D1 ball is a completely different game that they can't grasp. And UNT should be winning right now. I don't get it. This is UNT and the Sunbelt conference whose highest aspiration is the New Orleans bowl. It's not like TD is going from 3A to the SEC. You're lucky to get an up and coming coach who is excited about the opportunity and has a vision for improving the program at many different levels. Would you rather have a seasoned "D1" guy that has already made his way around numerous mediocre teams and is just settling for the UNT job? I would even argue that TD is more seasoned than most D1 coaches. He's been studying the game for over 30 years. He started on a UT team that was ranked #2 in the nation for awhile. Just because he cut his coaching teeth in HS doesn't mean he's some kind of babe in the woods now that he's in the big-time Sunbelt. Enjoy these next few years because he'll probably move on to a more big-time program after he's cleaned up this mess.
Also, I don't get this notion that the TD offense is all about passing and the RB only blocks. Have any of the folks saying this actually seen a Southlake game? It's a balanced offense and they take what the defense gives them. Tre Newton had 274 carries and 2,010 yards last year. Aaron Luna had similar numbers before him. Not bad for guys who only block for their QB. I'm not saying that UNT is going to be just like Southlake, but TD understands the value of the running game and he understands how to tailor the system to take advantage of the individual talent on hand. I know everyone wanted to see more Jmo in the 2nd quarter, but I'm sure there's a logical explanantion for why we didn't.
Back to the original point, I think Mizzou's style of offense is still the best vision of what UNT might become.

Some valid points, but your post reads a bit on the condescending side. Virtually all of the posters here are enthusiastically on board with TD and his program. Please forgive us if we occasional question his decisions and the team's overall performance while he is at the helm. He has yet to prove himself to be a coaching God at this level, and believe it or not, poor little helpless NT plays on a level above that of Southlake Carroll High School.

NCMeanGreen · September 25, 2007

Please don't generalize. I don't think that most of the criticism on GMG is unjustified. Defense that has performed below expectations, as well as a QB performing inconsistently are the main things that people are questioning. Are these not the things that are significantly contributing to the team losing the SMU and FAU games?

...a Defense we were told would be the strength of the team at the beginning of the season. I certainly think it is fair to question some of the mistakes, miscues, etc. early on in this season. Questioning these things does not a "fair weather" fan make! I do not think we would even be posting about these things if we all were not willing to weather the storm and ride it out. We will get better...it just all needs to come together, and preferrably at the same time!

BTW...I have not been to a SLC football game. Does something magical happen!?!?!

Got5onIt · September 25, 2007

BTW...I have not been to a SLC football game. Does something magical happen!?!?!

You'll have a very magical night if you choose to eat at the concessions stand. :lol:

risinggreen · September 25, 2007

[originally posted on banished thread http://www.gomeangreen.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=36590 ]
This is UNT and the Sunbelt conference whose highest aspiration is the New Orleans bowl.

Believe it or not, but our HIGHEST aspiration IS NOT The New Orleans Bowl. Sure we want to do that again, but been there done that four times in case you weren't aware. Our highest aspiration begins with an undefeated kick ass record, which results in a top 10 finish, which results in a BCS bowl bid, which results in a national championship. Our former conference mate came pretty close to making it happen for them last year so why can't we? I guess you outsiders just don't yet know how big we think out here in MeanGreen country.

gangrene · September 25, 2007

There, I fixed it for you.

UNTLifer · September 25, 2007

[originally posted on banished thread http://www.gomeangreen.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=36590 ]
Geeze, I can't believe the high expectations that some folks have. Isn't this the team that only won 4 games in the past two years?
All this griping about high-school coaches and somehow D1 ball is a completely different game that they can't grasp. And UNT should be winning right now. I don't get it. This is UNT and the Sunbelt conference whose highest aspiration is the New Orleans bowl. It's not like TD is going from 3A to the SEC. You're lucky to get an up and coming coach who is excited about the opportunity and has a vision for improving the program at many different levels. Would you rather have a seasoned "D1" guy that has already made his way around numerous mediocre teams and is just settling for the UNT job? I would even argue that TD is more seasoned than most D1 coaches. He's been studying the game for over 30 years. He started on a UT team that was ranked #2 in the nation for awhile. Just because he cut his coaching teeth in HS doesn't mean he's some kind of babe in the woods now that he's in the big-time Sunbelt. Enjoy these next few years because he'll probably move on to a more big-time program after he's cleaned up this mess.

The part of your post that followed the above is what I agree with. This B.S. is ridiculous. I appreciate new support for our program, but not the type that will hit the door as soon as their connection to the program, son, daughter, coach, etc..., departs. I would assume by your screename that you arrived on this board shortly after Dodge was hired. Let me explain something. Coming on here and telling the longtime suppporters of this program that we are "lucky to get an up and coming coach who is excited about the opportunity..." is utter B.S. and condescending in nature.

gangrene · September 25, 2007

Our highest aspiration begins with an undefeated kick ass record, which results in a top 10 finish

Hey, we're already in the Top 10:

Longest current losing streaks

(In Football Bowl Subdivision)

School Losses

1. Florida International 16

2 (t). Utah State 10

2 (t). Colorado State 10

4 (t). MTSU 7

4 (t).Temple 7

6. Notre Dame 6

7 (t). Louisiana-Lafayette 5

7 (t). Marshall 5

7 (t). North Texas 5

7 (t). Rice 5

We should be ecstatic that coach Godge has bestowed the honor of gracing our sidelines for a couple of seasons....who cares if we don't actually win a game. We're putting up gaudy passing and receiving statistics. What a bunch of ungrateful morons (or is it maroons?) we are.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 25, 2007

Just a general reply...

...nobody's expectations are unreasonable here. It is completely reasonable to expect to win winnable games - especially when you are leading in those games. Yes, OU blew us out of the water early and then followed us on shore and continued to blast us on land. But, SMU and FAU were completey winnable games.

Also, TD is no more above criticism than any other coach. It was his decision to surround himself with so many coaches without college experience, particularly as coordinators. They appear to be unable to adjust during games, which is crucial at the collegiate level. Not switching out of man coverage after being burned time and time again. FAU figuring out the offense at halftime, then shutting it down...

Todd Dodge is the head coach. He's not Jesus. When the staff he hired can't adjust on both sides of the ball - and regresses in special teams - fans are going to complain about it. Probably 99.9% have never been to a Southlake Carrol game. We could care less. I've never been to Southlake other than on business. I care nothing about it. Southlake can jump up my backside for all I care.

I graduated from UNT and want them to have a winning football program. I don't care whether they hire a high school coach or lure Bill Cowher out of retirement. My loyalty is with the school , not the coach. The point is, Dodge, Cowher, or whomever...don't expect fans to sit around and be "grateful" for choking away games against two very beatable opponents.

We've seen alot of ugly wins over the past few years. And, we'll take ugly wins over any type of loss. A win is a win. A loss is a loss. Down the road, no one carres about stats. The ony thing you see is the final score. Win.

Edited September 25, 2007 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

untbowler · September 25, 2007

Just a general reply...
...nobody's expectations are unreasonable here. It is completely reasonable to expect to win winnable games - especially when you are leading in those games. Yes, OU blew us out of the water early and then followed us on shore and continued to blast us on land. But, SMU and FAU were completey winnable games.
Also, TD is no more above criticism than any other coach. It was his decision to surround himself with so many coaches without college experience, particularly as coordinators. They appear to be unable to adjust during games, which is crucial at the collegiate level. Not switching out of man coverage after being burned time and time again. FAU figuring out the offense at halftime, then shutting it down...
Todd Dodge is the head coach. He's not Jesus. When the staff he hired can't adjust on both sides of the ball - and regresses in special teams - fans are going to complain about it. Probably 99.9% have never been to a Southlake Carrol game. We could care less. I've never been to Southlake other than on business. I care nothing about it. Southlake can jump up my backside for all I care.
I graduated from UNT and want them to have a winning football program. I don't care whether they hire a high school coach or lure Bill Cowher out of retirement. My loyalty is with the school , not the coach. The point is, Dodge, Cowher, or whomever...don't expect fans to sit around and be "grateful" for choking away games against two very beatable opponents.
We've seen alot of ugly wins over the past few years. And, we'll take ugly wins over any type of loss. A win is a win. A loss is a loss. Down the road, no one carres about stats. The ony thing you see is the final score. Win.

Damn I am about to cry as this is one of the very few times I agree with TFLF. :blink:

Got5onIt · September 25, 2007

The part of your post that followed the above is what I agree with. This B.S. is ridiculous. I appreciate new support for our program, but not the type that will hit the door as soon as their connection to the program, son, daughter, coach, etc..., departs. I would assume by your screename that you arrived on this board shortly after Dodge was hired. Let me explain something. Coming on here and telling the longtime suppporters of this program that we are "lucky to get an up and coming coach who is excited about the opportunity..." is utter B.S. and condescending in nature.

Well put.

Some people forget that NT is a Bowl Championship Subdivision school. Coaching at a Bowl Subdivision school in Texas is higher than any position any high school can offer.

Quoner · September 25, 2007

Damn I am about to cry as this is one of the very few times I agree with TFLF.

Let's face it, the man is on today. And has gone from the bringer of all evil to the voice of reason in just 3 games. What a roller coaster...

Harry · September 25, 2007

Just a general reply...
...nobody's expectations are unreasonable here. It is completely reasonable to expect to win winnable games - especially when you are leading in those games. Yes, OU blew us out of the water early and then followed us on shore and continued to blast us on land. But, SMU and FAU were completey winnable games.
Also, TD is no more above criticism than any other coach. It was his decision to surround himself with so many coaches without college experience, particularly as coordinators. They appear to be unable to adjust during games, which is crucial at the collegiate level. Not switching out of man coverage after being burned time and time again. FAU figuring out the offense at halftime, then shutting it down...
Todd Dodge is the head coach. He's not Jesus. When the staff he hired can't adjust on both sides of the ball - and regresses in special teams - fans are going to complain about it. Probably 99.9% have never been to a Southlake Carrol game. We could care less. I've never been to Southlake other than on business. I care nothing about it. Southlake can jump up my backside for all I care.
I graduated from UNT and want them to have a winning football program. I don't care whether they hire a high school coach or lure Bill Cowher out of retirement. My loyalty is with the school , not the coach. The point is, Dodge, Cowher, or whomever...don't expect fans to sit around and be "grateful" for choking away games against two very beatable opponents.
We've seen alot of ugly wins over the past few years. And, we'll take ugly wins over any type of loss. A win is a win. A loss is a loss. Down the road, no one carres about stats. The ony thing you see is the final score. Win.

Solid post. Well stated.

CaribbeanGreen · September 25, 2007

Hey, we're already in the Top 10:
Longest current losing streaks
(In Football Bowl Subdivision)
School Losses
1. Florida International 16
2 (t). Utah State 10
2 (t). Colorado State 10
4 (t). MTSU 7
4 (t).Temple 7
6. Notre Dame 6
7 (t). Louisiana-Lafayette 5
7 (t). Marshall 5
7 (t). North Texas 5
7 (t). Rice 5
We should be ecstatic that coach Godge has bestowed the honor of gracing our sidelines for a couple of seasons....who cares if we don't actually win a game. We're putting up gaudy passing and receiving statistics. What a bunch of ungrateful morons (or is it maroons?) we are.

`

Giggle.

The following is from the TYSports blog linked above by TTG ... (which is really good stuff and worth checking out, especially for us Maroons)... I even left out the part comparing DD's offensive impact at USU vs. TD's here. Go there yourself for that gravy.

There were 24 coaching changes in the FBS (erstwhile D-1A) this year. 24 new coaches are saddled with the old coaches' system and players. So far with, each team just three or four games into their seasons, only THREE out of the 24 are winless - Rice, FIU, and North Texas.

10 of these teams have at least 2 wins. 4 are undefeated.

Not counting North Texas, new coaches are an overall 43-44. Basically .500. Statistically almost the same record as the FBS teams with returning coaches, illustrating no appreciable difference. No excuses.

But at North Texas, we should apparently accept a 3 or 4 year plan. We should be so thankful anyone would come pat us on the head and coach our team. That's garbage. Things haven't changed -- we need to WIN. That's all that will spark this program and put butts in seats. We didn't see an appreciable bump from the casual NT/SLC fan at our home opener. We shouldn't expect one. It doesn't matter if our coach is Todd Dodge, Darrell Dickey, or Moses. Any initial publicity or tiny spike in media coverage or interest is fleeting and worthless until you win.

This isn't remotely a knock on TD. I still have confidence in this new direction, and I'd venture to say he wouldn't disagree with much of the above. He's probably damn disappointed right now. He should be. My point is, we shouldn't be content with being non-competitive and winning two games this year in this conference.

You can be upset and unhappy with the performance of the team without attacking the coaching staff and players and calling for their jobs and scholarships. That's what a fan board is for. I'm still excited, I know we have no choice but to be patient. I know we may have a bigger learning curve than other teams. I don't, however, enjoy or feel lucky to be 0-3. I just wish we were in the same boat or held ourselves to the same standards as the majority of other teams who hired new coaches and put in new systems.

EDIT: By the time I finished this post, I had missed TFLF's post. He said it far better than I could have. Good work, sir.

Edited September 25, 2007 by CaribbeanGreen

gangrene · September 25, 2007

It doesn't matter if our coach is Todd Dodge, Darrell Dickey, or Moses.

I'm having visions of our team wandering aimlessly up and down the field.

letsgiveacheer · September 25, 2007

I was wondering when this would happen. Here in Chapel Hill, I can assure you that the new UNC coach, Butch Davis, is not getting a free pass. At the college level, I hate to see such pointed criticism about individual players such as what has happened with Meager, but we have mainly been silent about Dodge until now.

So far, we have seen the second worse defeat in our long history and the loss of two games in the final quarter. An appearance in the ESPN Bottom Ten is surely coming and I can't recall us ever being there.

Will things improve? I suspect so, but if they don't, I will still be here and rooting for our team just as I have since 1971.

foutsrouts · September 25, 2007

I was wondering when this would happen. Here in Chapel Hill, I can assure you that the new UNC coach, Butch Davis, is not getting a free pass. At the college level, I hate to see such pointed criticism about individual players such as what has happened with Meager, but we have mainly been silent about Dodge until now.
So far, we have seen the second worse defeat in our long history and the loss of two games in the final quarter. An appearance in the ESPN Bottom Ten is surely coming and I can't recall us ever being there.
Will things improve? I suspect so, but if they don't, I will still be here and rooting for our team just as I have since 1971.

Yeah, most of the complaining so far has been directed at Meager's untimely interceptions and Mendoza's pourous defense. Rightly so in my opinion, but the bottom line after 3 straight losses is that the buck stops with Todd Dodge. That's just the way it is whether you're a high school coaching legend or not.

SLCoutsider · September 25, 2007

Folks, I apologize for the condescending tone of my post. I got a little caught up in my expressive writing. While I stand by most of the points I made, the embellishment was unnecessary. I have alot of respect and appreciation for UNT (in both academics and athletics) and the Sunbelt conference. Nobody is doing you a favor by taking the head coach job.

Back to the points, I still don't understand how D1 ball is so much different and more complex than 5A ball. That's why I ask if anyone has seen Southlake (or any other top HS program)? Sure, adjustments have to be made because the athletes are bigger, stronger, and faster in D1. But what else is so different? I've watched a bunch of HS ball besides Southlake and it's gotten pretty darn sophisticated. What do we think SMU and FAU did that Dodge and Mendoza haven't seen before?

And how is expecting .500 or better a reasonable expectation when they only won 2 games last year? Considering the coaching staff changes and new system learning curve, it seems like a reasonable expectation is to win 2 games this year. Any more would be an aspirational target. The fact that some other new D1 coaches have started off better, doesn't mean that we should expect this one to.

PlummMeanGreen · September 25, 2007

I was wondering when this would happen. Here in Chapel Hill, I can assure you that the new UNC coach, Butch Davis, is not getting a free pass. At the college level, I hate to see such pointed criticism about individual players such as what has happened with Meager, but we have mainly been silent about Dodge until now.
So far, we have seen the second worse defeat in our long history and the loss of two games in the final quarter. An appearance in the ESPN Bottom Ten is surely coming and I can't recall us ever being there.
Will things improve? I suspect so, but if they don't, I will still be here and rooting for our team just as I have since 1971.

In my heart of hearts, I just feel Coach Dodge really wants more for UNT than merely winning the SBC as an un-ranked football program and representing our conference in the Big Easy un-ranked as well. So with that in mind, an "SBC quick fix" (which we know is quite do-able because of the schools in our league) but such a non-ranked quick-fix is not what the doctor seems to be ordering these days in Mean Green Country but rather something much more grandiose.

When Todd Dodge (and the rest of us) get a new football palace, it will be harder for him to leave Denton but probably more tempting for him to want to stick around and build something very special in Denton, Texas, America; but let's be realistic about such things, too, as out of almost 120 NCAA D1-A programs wouldn't about 110 of those schools all be considered stepping-stone football programs to a large degree?

Boise State has had multiple HFC's in recent years but have not lost a step in Top 25 rankings. Most of us hope TDodge is the one who leads us to the NCAA Promise Land and that he hangs around awhile doing so. Why not? He's a PK :blink: , ie, a Methodist "preacher's kid" and most of that group are usually the kind you want to hang around awhile because of their disciplined lifestyle that translates to those around them. Of course, not all PK's turn out that way.

For those who have forgotten, Coach Hayden Fry's Mean Green only won "2" games in his 2'nd year in Denton and I know that because myself and many others on GMG.com saw both wins. So some should just take another zanex (sp?) or vailium and remember what we really need in Mean Green Country is really going to take patience, ie, or more than 2 or 3 seasons to build; yet want we all be the beneficiaries when we have a football program much like our former conference-mate, ie, the Boise State Broncos, who have been a perrenial Top 25 football program for the last several years?

I still defer to the below signature:

Edited September 25, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

Quoner · September 25, 2007

In my heart of hearts, I just feel Coach Dodge really wants more for UNT than merely winning the SBC as an un-ranked football program and representing our conference in the Big Easy un-ranked as well. So with that in mind, an "SBC quick fix" (which we know is quite do-able because of the schools in our league) but such a non-ranked quick-fix is not what the doctor seems to be ordering these days in Mean Green Country but rather something much more grandiose.

What does a non-SBC quick fix even mean? You have to win the Sun Belt to get everything else you are talking about. If this was "doable" and so easy, why aren't we doing it? Are we holding out for that brilliant gameplan we used against OU to beat some BCS schools? Are we saving everything to ambush Arkansas because if we were 2-1 the way we should be they might take us seriously. I understand and agree with the spirit of what you are saying, but rationalizing losing these games as part of a bigger plan is not a plan I want to be a part of.

I'm not trying to call you out, but I have enjoyed the way you have rightly taken many to task for rationalizing not winning before - why are you backing off now?

Either way, great things are ahead. It's just frustrating to have them slip through our hands right now because of what seems like factors that could be controlled, corrected or accounted for. I still haven't lost my Dodger, though; it's just tucked in my waistband.

PlummMeanGreen · September 25, 2007

What does a non-SBC quick fix even mean? You have to win the Sun Belt to get everything else you are talking about. If this was "doable" and so easy, why aren't we doing it? Are we holding out for that brilliant gameplan we used against OU to beat some BCS schools? Are we saving everything to ambush Arkansas because if we were 2-1 the way we should be they might take us seriously. I understand and agree with the spirit of what you are saying, but rationalizing losing these games as part of a bigger plan is not a plan I want to be a part of.
I'm not trying to call you out, but I have enjoyed the way you have rightly taken many to task for rationalizing not winning before - why are you backing off now?
Either way, great things are ahead. It's just frustrating to have them slip through our hands right now because of what seems like factors that could be controlled, corrected or accounted for. I still haven't lost my Dodger, though; it's just tucked in my waistband.

For starters an SBC quick-fix? In 2001 with a 5 & 6 record going to a bowl game as an un-ranked football team. Don't know how much more "quick-fix" you can get than that.

Then..............4 bowl games in a row and then 5 wins spread out over 2 seasons suggests that a 4 year walk thru a new league of brand new D1-A upstart schools as the SBC was mostly comprised did not quite get us the same solid foundation that former Big West Conference-mate Boise State seemed to be building at the same time we were "quick-fixing" thru the Sun Belt Conference. How many D1-A schools have you heard of that went to 4 straight bowl games (unranked) and then won 5 games the next 2 years following a 4 year run of bowls?

Edited September 25, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen