Missouri - Chase Daniel

SLCoutsider · September 25, 2007

Does anyone else around here follow the Missouri Tigers? What do you think?

If you haven't watched a game, I highly recommend that you check them out. Chase Daniel is the most talented QB to come out of TD's system. Pinkel actually changed the Mizzou offense, with some help from TD, to fit around him. The Missouri offense may be the best example of what UNT could resemble in a couple years. Their next game and conference opener is Oct 8 against Nebraska (who knocked them out of Big-12 North contention last year). Kickoff is at 8:15 on ESPN. I'm planning to have this on the TV while listening to UNT-ULL on the radio.

Quoner · September 25, 2007

Does anyone else around here follow the Missouri Tigers? What do you think?
If you haven't watched a game, I highly recommend that you check them out. Chase Daniel is the most talented QB to come out of TD's system. Pinkel actually changed the Mizzou offense, with some help from TD, to fit around him. The Missouri offense may be the best example of what UNT could resemble in a couple years. Their next game and conference opener is Oct 8 against Nebraska (who knocked them out of Big-12 North contention last year). Kickoff is at 8:15 on ESPN. I'm planning to have this on the TV while listening to UNT-ULL on the radio.

They have a horrendous defense and struggle to put teams away if they stop scoring. I really hope we keep the arial success and build our own version of the rest. Chase - and Dodge - have helped a crappy coach like Pinkel keep a pretty good team around him.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 25, 2007

They have a horrendous defense and struggle to put teams away if they stop scoring. I really hope we keep the arial success and build our own version of the rest. Chase - and Dodge - have helped a crappy coach like Pinkel keep a pretty good team around him.

Perhaps the most absurd post ever on the board. Pinkel got his start in coaching before Dodge was still banging erasers after elementary school. He was the offensive coordinator and QB coach at Washington from the mid-80s until Toledo hired him in 1991. Washington was a perennial bowl team while Pinkel was an assistant and OC, winning the Rose Bowl in his final year as OC/QB coach.

In his 10 years at Toledo, he produced two 10 wins teams, including an undefeated 1995 squad. During his tenure at Toledo, Pinkel led the Rockets to a victory over Penn State at State College.

At Mizzou, he took a school that had only had two winning seasons in the 17 years prior to his arrival, including a 3-8 mark the year before he took over, and has delivered three bowl teams in only six seasons. It's not like he stepped in after Tom Osborn at Nebraska and had a football machine at his fingertips. He took a long down-trodden program and has built them into an annual contender for the Big 12 North.

His 2003 squad set a Mizzou record for points scored. The two season span of 2002 and 2003 marked the first time in Mizzou history that it had scored more than 300 points in consecutive seasons. In 10 seasons at Toledo, he had two squads score 400 or more points, and two others that posted more than 350 points in a season. In his final year as OC/QB coach at Washington, the Huskies scored 440 points. Three of the six seasons he was Washington's OC/QB coach, the Husky offense produced 330+ point offense three times.

So, the idea that Chase and Dodge have done anything for Pinkel is laughable. Pinkel was training and turning out NFL QBs and producing explosive offenses while Dodge was setting records for interceptions thrown at Texas and goofing around at Texas high schools. Like any other coach, he'll add bits and pieces of what he thinks will work from season to season. Dodge will be lucky to have half as many wins as Pinkel at the D-I/FCS level when his career is done.

If you want to see the true definition of "crappy" you won't look anywhere near Gary Pinkel's coaching career. Rather, you might start in our own back yard and look at our own staff of high school coaches and their 0-3 start, including two fourth quarter collapses, pleathora of interceptions, and inability to move the ball on anyone excpet the NCAA's worst defense, SMU...and we still lost that one.

Edited September 25, 2007 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 25, 2007

Does anyone else around here follow the Missouri Tigers? What do you think?
If you haven't watched a game, I highly recommend that you check them out. Chase Daniel is the most talented QB to come out of TD's system. Pinkel actually changed the Mizzou offense, with some help from TD, to fit around him. The Missouri offense may be the best example of what UNT could resemble in a couple years. Their next game and conference opener is Oct 8 against Nebraska (who knocked them out of Big-12 North contention last year). Kickoff is at 8:15 on ESPN. I'm planning to have this on the TV while listening to UNT-ULL on the radio.

Mizzou has a run game. In Pinkel's six seasons, they've had at least 1,800 rushing yards every year. Three times they've had over 2,200 rushing yards, and in 2003 they had over 3,000 rushing yards for the season. So, while they throw it around, they also have the personnel - and know how - to run the ball as well.

Got5onIt · September 25, 2007

Perhaps the most absurd post ever on the board. Pinkel got his start in coaching before Dodge was still banging erasers after elementary school. He was the offensive coordinator and QB coach at Washington from the mid-80s until Toledo hired him in 1991. Washington was a perennial bowl team while Pinkel was an assistant and OC, winning the Rose Bowl in his final year as OC/QB coach.
In his 10 years at Toledo, he produced two 10 wins teams, including an undefeated 1995 squad. During his tenure at Toledo, Pinkel led the Rockets to a victory over Penn State at State College.
At Mizzou, he took a school that had only had two winning seasons in the 17 years prior to his arrival, including a 3-8 mark the year before he took over, and has delivered three bowl teams in only six seasons. It's not like he stepped in after Tom Osborn at Nebraska and had a football machine at his fingertips. He took a long down-trodden program and has built them into an annual contender for the Big 12 North.
His 2003 squad set a Mizzou record for points scored. The two season span of 2002 and 2003 marked the first time in Mizzou history that it had scored more than 300 points in consecutive seasons. In 10 seasons at Toledo, he had two squads score 400 or more points, and two others that posted more than 350 points in a season. In his final year as OC/QB coach at Washington, the Huskies scored 440 points. Three of the six seasons he was Washington's OC/QB coach, the Husky offense produced 330+ point offense three times.
So, the idea that Chase and Dodge have done anything for Pinkel is laughable. Pinkel was training and turning out NFL QBs and producing explosive offenses while Dodge was setting records for interceptions thrown at Texas and goofing around at Texas high schools. Like any other coach, he'll add bits and pieces of what he thinks will work from season to season. Dodge will be lucky to have half as many wins as Pinkel at the D-I/FCS level when his career is done.
If you want to see the true definition of "crappy" you won't look anywhere near Gary Pinkel's coaching career. Rather, you might start in our own back yard and look at our own staff of high school coaches and their 0-3 start, including two fourth quarter collapses, pleathora of interceptions, and inability to move the ball on anyone excpet the NCAA's worst defense, SMU...and we still lost that one.

Waiting to hear "These are DD's players" in 3, 2, 1.....

Edited September 25, 2007 by Got5onIt

untbowler · September 25, 2007

Waiting to hear "These are DD's players" in 3, 2, 1.....

only at UNT do we have 75% of fans who love to give a coach another year to rebuild, then another year, then another.......... :blink:

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 25, 2007

Waiting to hear "These are DD's players" in 3, 2, 1.....

Exactly...and, surely, the kool-aid drinkers will be posting it all season, and perhaps next season as well.

They ignore other coaching staffs who have taken on losing programs and mid-majors and made them winners. Somehow, at UNT, we must settle for years and years of building until a coach gets "his players."

I've posted it before, and will surely post it again - Todd Dodge is the coach of North Texas. Therefore, every player on the roster is now his player. And, what's more, he inherited a roster with veteran defensive players. Somehow, his coaching ability isn't showing up on that side of the ball.

Edited September 25, 2007 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

Got5onIt · September 25, 2007

I've posted it before, and will surely post it again - Todd Dodge is the coach of North Texas. Therefore, every player on the roster is now his player. And, what's more, he inherited a roster with veteran defensive players. Somehow, his coaching ability isn't showing up on that side of the ball.

As much as I haven't agreed with your postings in the past, I absolutely agree with you here.

Hell, look at Rice for what a coach can & cannot do for a program.

untbowler · September 25, 2007

and even though we are talking UNT sports now in the thread it gets trashed into Non-UNT sports.

When as UNT fans are we going to actually expect big things out of our coaches immediately? I am not talking about RV coming up at the intro of coach saying they will win fast. It is one thing to not have any players return it is another when 9 Starters return on one side of the ball and we get worse. <_<

Edited September 25, 2007 by untbowler

UNTLifer · September 25, 2007

Mizzou has a run game. In Pinkel's six seasons, they've had at least 1,800 rushing yards every year. Three times they've had over 2,200 rushing yards, and in 2003 they had over 3,000 rushing yards for the season. So, while they throw it around, they also have the personnel - and know how - to run the ball as well.

Like it or not, Dodge did work with Mizzou on their offense to taylor it to Daniels talents.

SLCoutsider · September 25, 2007

Geeze, I can't believe the high expectations that some folks have. Isn't this the team that only won 4 games in the past two years?

All this griping about high-school coaches and somehow D1 ball is a completely different game that they can't grasp. And UNT should be winning right now. I don't get it. This is UNT and the Sunbelt conference whose highest aspiration is the New Orleans bowl. It's not like TD is going from 3A to the SEC. You're lucky to get an up and coming coach who is excited about the opportunity and has a vision for improving the program at many different levels. Would you rather have a seasoned "D1" guy that has already made his way around numerous mediocre teams and is just settling for the UNT job? I would even argue that TD is more seasoned than most D1 coaches. He's been studying the game for over 30 years. He started on a UT team that was ranked #2 in the nation for awhile. Just because he cut his coaching teeth in HS doesn't mean he's some kind of babe in the woods now that he's in the big-time Sunbelt. Enjoy these next few years because he'll probably move on to a more big-time program after he's cleaned up this mess.

Also, I don't get this notion that the TD offense is all about passing and the RB only blocks. Have any of the folks saying this actually seen a Southlake game? It's a balanced offense and they take what the defense gives them. Tre Newton had 274 carries and 2,010 yards last year. Aaron Luna had similar numbers before him. Not bad for guys who only block for their QB. I'm not saying that UNT is going to be just like Southlake, but TD understands the value of the running game and he understands how to tailor the system to take advantage of the individual talent on hand. I know everyone wanted to see more Jmo in the 2nd quarter, but I'm sure there's a logical explanantion for why we didn't.

Back to the original point, I think Mizzou's style of offense is still the best vision of what UNT might become.

Quoner · September 25, 2007

Why was Pinkel almost run out of town twice?

Why do people around Chase joke about him saving Pinkel's job after two disasters in a row?

Why did Dodge have to help tweak his offense?

Ask Norv Turner if being a good coordinator and a good college head coach are the same thing. Hell, ask Dodge.

Got5onIt · September 25, 2007

Like it or not, Dodge did work with Mizzou on their offense to taylor it to Daniels talents.

Good coaches do this and this is what I think Finch was trying to say about Mizzou's head coach. Brad Smith ran an entirely different style of offense and it was taylored to fit him.

Was the "mightiness' of the Dodge system that made Mizzou do it? Who knows. Their winning record helps the argument.