Meager's True Colors?

MeanMag · September 24, 2007

I think the O-line has been very solid. Which is amazing for me to say, because going into the season I saw it as a weakness.

The trouble comes when Meager is trying to find an open guy. I think he's just trying to find a guy wide open, which doesn't happen very often. I think it may be a confidence thing. He is so used to ridicule and throwing interceptions that he tries extra hard not to screw up, and so he takes more time.

One thing I did notice with Vizza at OU was that he made quick decisions. Now if he could make better quick decisions he wouldn't have thrown 2 INTs in 1 Quarter. But, I think it will come with time and practice, and it was OU, which has an amazingly fast D. I think Vizza needs time to adjust to the college game to actually find out what a open receiver looks like at this level, because they are not as wide open as the were in HS.

FirefightnRick · September 24, 2007

DM should have checked down on the deep interception he threw. Its obvious that when you have a deep route that you also have a secondary route underneath. DM threw into double coverage and did not see cover 2. I would expect that from an inexperienced QB but not someone who has been on campus four years. Don't blame on the OC, we all know who runs the show on offense if your going to blame someone for that decision to throw it instead of running the ball.
I too wonder why we can't hit receivers in stride on routes. DM hit one WR in the fourth Quarter, in stride, when FAU was playing soft coverage (keeping everything in front of them). DM does not step up in the pocket at all.
DM starts Arkansas then get out of the way. If we lose one more conference game, expect our younger players to see some time.

I'd have to watch a replay to say whether I agree with your statement that there was an open man on a secondary route or not? But why can't the OC and the person we all know who runs the show share some of the blame for calling to throw to the right side at Polo at that curcial point in the game? If DM doesn't step up into the pocket correctly, doesn't check off on recievers correctly and doesn't hit recievers in stride, then who's responsible for him continuing to get the playing time, the guy who runs the show, also?

Rick

Edited September 24, 2007 by FirefightnRick

hickoryhouse · September 24, 2007

DM is soing an adequate job, and right now i think that he does give us the best chance to win, no matter how seemingly small that chance is. I agree with whoever it was that said as soon as a conference championship is no longer possible we will see Vizza. That makes the most sense.... give us a chance to win now and when that chance is gone build for the future

yyz28 · September 24, 2007

Wow... this thread has gotten aweful hot...

Meager is part of the problem. No doubt. ...but he isn't the only problem. I'm not saying that he should or shouldn't be replaced - I fear that that might take us out of the frying pan and into the fire - but there is certainly room for critisim. 6 Interceptions in 2 games is too much. He does not check down well, and his arm is weak - recievers are constantly coming back to catch his passes.

...however, I don't understand this need to pin a loss like this on one person. It seems like people are blaming this loss on either A. Meager, or B. the Defense. ...how 'bout both people?

Meager threw 3 interceptions. The Secondary was picked apart. The Offensive line played poorly. Special teams were terrible - 2 blocked punts and and hardly any punt/kickoff return yardage. The coaching staff TOTALLY BLEW IT in 2 ways - 1. Playcall was not designed for the QB, and 2. ZERO halftime adjustments. If you know you have a QB that has a weak arm and usually throws to reciever #1, WHY call the fade route? TWICE?!?!?!

If your QB commits 3 turnovers, your Defense can be thrown on at will and your special teams fails to show up, and then you make critical coaching mistakes - YOU ARE GOING TO LOSE THE FOOTBALL GAME!!!

There is no point in attacking each other and getting nasty, calling each other asinine and jack-ass. What the hell does this gain?

This team needed to be overhauled. We KNEW that this type of thing was and still is a possiblity in a building year. We have new schemes and new coaches who don't have college experience - they will have to learn along the way just like the players. This is going to take some time. FAU is for real this year, and could easliy be in the hunt for the title. This is going to take some time. Give TDogde and his team the time to gel and get some experience together, and I think we're in for GOOD things... but be prepared for this to take a season OR TWO!!!

...GO MEAN GREEN!!!

gangrene · September 24, 2007

no disrespect but DM was also great in the first half against SMU, but Football is 2 Halves. The coaches and the field general need to adapt to the defensive adjustments and it seems we have a quite aways to go for that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't DM squander six points by throwing an INT in the end zone on our first drive?? That's a very critical mistake.

The trouble comes when Meager is trying to find an open guy. I think he's just trying to find a guy wide open, which doesn't happen very often. I think it may be a confidence thing.

It's because he's only accurate to a +/- 5 yard degree...meaning if the guy's not open by at least 5 yards the chances of the pass being intercepted increase exponentially because he's going to overthrow/underthrow him by at least 5 yards.

One thing I did notice with Vizza at OU was that he made quick decisions. Now if he could make better quick decisions he wouldn't have thrown 2 INTs in 1 Quarter. But, I think it will come with time and practice, and it was OU, which has an amazingly fast D. I think Vizza needs time to adjust to the college game to actually find out what a open receiver looks like at this level, because they are not as wide open as the were in HS.

I agree with your perception of Vizza during the OU game. In addition to making quick decisions, he has a quick release and doesn't vacate the pocket at the first sign of trouble. It's much more difficult to pass block for a QB who has happy feet and holds on to the ball too long. Vizza looks to have great pocket presence and can make the split decision to get rid of the ball just before being hit by the defense. Vizza is also more accurate, IMO, and is able to hit WRs in stride instead of forcing them to fair catch the pass. Will Vizza make mistakes when he finally gets his shot? Sure he will. He'll throw INTs too but I don't think he'll make the same level of mistakes that has plagued Meager. Throwing INTs in the end zone is intolerable and should get your ass benched ASAP.

DM is soing an adequate job, and right now i think that he does give us the best chance to win, no matter how seemingly small that chance is. I agree with whoever it was that said as soon as a conference championship is no longer possible we will see Vizza. That makes the most sense.... give us a chance to win now and when that chance is gone build for the future

Adequate?? 4 TDs and 7 INTs is adequate?? Hmmm...I'll just say I disagree and leave it at that.

gangrene · September 24, 2007

...however, I don't understand this need to pin a loss like this on one person. It seems like people are blaming this loss on either A. Meager, or B. the Defense. ...how 'bout both people?

I don't think anyone is blaming only DM for this loss or the SMU loss. We win and lose as a team. You can't expect to win without a good defensive performance and you certainly shouldn't expect to win when you have two blocked punts within the same game. There's definitely plenty of blame to go around, but that's not really what I see is happening. Why is it that everyone thinks that just because you criticize the performance of one player, you're placing ALL the blame for the loss on that one player? I could just as easily rant and rave about the performance of Adam Venegas thus far this season, but that certainly wouldn't mean that I'm placing the blame for being 0-3 on him.

Meager gets the bulk of the criticism because the QB position has more influence on the outcome of the game than any other one position on the team. There have been several other threads this season that criticize other parts of our game; defensive scheme, d-coordinator, DBs, etc. We should have a new for special teams this week.

There is no point in attacking each other and getting nasty, calling each other asinine and jack-ass. What the hell does this gain?

Agreed...I guess that just shows how passionate each of us are about our Mean Green football. We've had a day and a half now to cool down...maybe we can all play nice again? Maybe there should be a new rule that prohibits us from posting for 48 hours after a loss??

This team needed to be overhauled. We KNEW that this type of thing was and still is a possiblity in a building year. We have new schemes and new coaches who don't have college experience - they will have to learn along the way just like the players. This is going to take some time.

Yes, and everyone wants to talk about how these are DD's kids playing in TD's offense. So I say why not let the kids TD recruited start playing now??

Smitty · September 24, 2007

I think the O-line has been very solid. Which is amazing for me to say, because going into the season I saw it as a weakness.

I thought the offensive line had some moments, especially in the first half. But in the second half they had no answer for the FAU pass rush. FAU was getting tremendous pressure with only four and then three men rushing, which late in the game eliminated UNT's down-field passing. When you can get that much pressure with a three- or four-man rush, it allows the secondary to play much closer to the receivers, which in turn limited UNT's short passes.

Quoner · September 24, 2007

I don't think anyone is blaming only DM for this loss or the SMU loss. We win and lose as a team.

Except none of us are part of the team and this thread is an argument about singling people out.

That is a pretty cool cliche though. Wish I thought of it when I coached Pop Warner.

FlyingWorm · September 25, 2007

We win and lose a team? This is not the YMCA. Not everyone gets a plastic trophy here. We need to play a QB that is going to make things happen and not choke in the 4th quarter. Being able to throw a forward pass couldn't hurt. And wouldn't it be nice to see a QB with a little fire, maybe take some intelligent chances and not run out of bounds every scramble. Seriously, watching the offense last game was terribly unexciting.

McK · September 25, 2007

I was in section A for last Saturday's game, and my analysis is that Meager has either poor distance judgement or his arm is just not strong enough to hit the X man on a fly. 2 of those interception were right in front of me, and that corner knew exactly this tendency to underthrow that route toward the inside; both times he was perfectly positioned to make the pick, and he didn't have to turn his head till the last second. But Meager does hit the crossing routes and the curls quite well. He does, however, get confused by a zone blitz, and the tackles don't handle that at all well, either. I think the fact has to be faced that he cannot go long safely, and there will have to be better adjustments to the crossings and curls. The scheme worked so well in the first half, except for that one fly to the X. If they don't have the ability to adjust, I'd say it's a 2-5, maybe 3-4, year in the SunBelt. Unlike some here, though, I don't trust the idea of turning it over to a true freshman very soon. Even if Vizza is more experienced than Meaager in running the spread (as I tend to think) I think there would be a lot of psychological risk to rushing him in there. Af true freshman is adjusting to a lot more new things than a faster-paced football game, and he needs the confirmation of success to progress. Meager himself may have been a vicitim of this type of circumstance. I think he's shown he has more talent than observers (casual fans, anyway) thought 2 years ago, and last year when he lost and regained his starting job.

Those blocked punts-- without which UNT may still have won-- seemed to be the line's fault. A team seldom lets that happen in one game and doesn't work hard the following week under frothy-mouthed coaches; so I think that will improve.

Honestly, this was a game against evely matched teams. If UNT makes the improvements I am talking about-- and I don't know what the chances are-- they still could win 6 or more games.

On a personal level, I have only one thing to indicate that TD may be stubborn and will stick to what he's started with, no matter what. About 15-16 years ago I needed a car and he had one for sale; I think it was a Bronco, or something similar. I got in touch with him and went over to look at it, and though I don't remember the mileage, he wanted $4000 for it. I thought I could get it for no more than $3700; so I bade, I think, $3400. He was totally non-negotibale; wouldn't come down any at all. I don't know whether he sold it and got his $4000, but if he thinks it's not 'fatal' to win/sell right now, I'm sure he won't compromise.

eulesseagle · September 25, 2007

some of you people would complain if your grandmother was on her death bed getting ready to leave you one million dollars.

TD has transformed DM into one of the nations better passing QBs.

--just take a look at some of his stats on ESPN. I am not going to post it but just look it up.

--how can you complain about his immediate improvement??

--DM is completing 65% of his passes and that is probably better than 110 other D-1A QBs.

--DM, after three games when most D-1A teams have played four games he is in the top quarter in passing yards.

--even after the three interceptions in the FAU game UNT was still in the game. I do not have to tell you getting two blocked punts was not DM's fault. Those blocked punts led to 14 FAU points.

--UNT has one receiver in the top five nationally and another rated about in the 40's nationally. Evidently TD's system of "moving the chains" and "getting the ball into the hands of the playmaker so they can make something happen" is working.

--TD is a winner and knows nothing but winning and putting together a winner and that includes DM.

--too many of you have the perverbial "knee jerk" reaction and want some sort of "hail mary blessing" to change our team to what OU has overnight. TD is doing the best he can with what he has to work with and personally I think he is doing a great job.

--the SMU game could have been ours.

--the FAU game could have been ours.

--have patience and let TD and his staff mold us a winner from what he inherited and the recruits he is bringing in.

--nobody in their right "college educated" mind can put all the blame on DM but in the three games that I have seen him play he is doing a great job.

--in the mean time some of you who like to get together in your little sewing circles and have cheese and whine ya'll can continue to do so but I am still "pumped on watching the steady improvements" that TD is bring to UNT football.

--in the mean time I need another fix of sausage on a stick and some more of those boy scout hot dogs and a coke.....and.....that sounds a lot better than cheese and whine.

untbowler · September 25, 2007

some of you people would complain if your grandmother was on her death bed getting ready to leave you one million dollars.
TD has transformed DM into one of the nations better passing QBs.
--just take a look at some of his stats on ESPN. I am not going to post it but just look it up.
--how can you complain about his immediate improvement??
--DM is completing 65% of his passes and that is probably better than 110 other D-1A QBs.
--DM, after three games when most D-1A teams have played four games he is in the top quarter in passing yards.
--even after the three interceptions in the FAU game UNT was still in the game. I do not have to tell you getting two blocked punts was not DM's fault. Those blocked punts led to 14 FAU points.
--UNT has one receiver in the top five nationally and another rated about in the 40's nationally. Evidently TD's system of "moving the chains" and "getting the ball into the hands of the playmaker so they can make something happen" is working.
--TD is a winner and knows nothing but winning and putting together a winner and that includes DM.
--too many of you have the perverbial "knee jerk" reaction and want some sort of "hail mary blessing" to change our team to what OU has overnight. TD is doing the best he can with what he has to work with and personally I think he is doing a great job.
--the SMU game could have been ours.
--the FAU game could have been ours.
--have patience and let TD and his staff mold us a winner from what he inherited and the recruits he is bringing in.
--nobody in their right "college educated" mind can put all the blame on DM but in the three games that I have seen him play he is doing a great job.
--in the mean time some of you who like to get together in your little sewing circles and have cheese and whine ya'll can continue to do so but I am still "pumped on watching the steady improvements" that TD is bring to UNT football.
--in the mean time I need another fix of sausage on a stick and some more of those boy scout hot dogs and a coke.....and.....that sounds a lot better than cheese and whine.

and another poor UNT sob story that we can not be like other teams that improve in one year, why because we are UNT by golly and we have to have everything take time to build.

Again how is driving inside the 20 5x and scoring no points great, how is 4TD and 7 INTs great?

This is getting comical now. <_<

Edited September 25, 2007 by untbowler

Quoner · September 25, 2007

--DM is completing 65% of his passes and that is probably better than 110 other D-1A QBs.

That is awesome!

newuntfan07 · September 25, 2007

That is awesome!

QUOTE(eulesseagle @ Sep 25 2007, 07:35 AM)

--DM is completing 65% of his passes and that is probably better than 110 other D-1A QBs.

You are kidding aren't you? His competion ratio is due to the fact that we throw so many short bubble screens, slip screens, and stop routes. I think he is a good passer but until he throws the ball with authority in between the hash and makes quicker reads, I'll have disagree with you that he is better than 110 D-1 QB's because of stats. DM's telling stats are not the 4 TD's and the 7 int's. its when he has the int's and how he has the int's.

Quoner · September 25, 2007

QUOTE(eulesseagle @ Sep 25 2007, 07:35 AM)
--DM is completing 65% of his passes and that is probably better than 110 other D-1A QBs.
You are kidding aren't you? His competion ratio is due to the fact that we throw so many short bubble screens, slip screens, and stop routes. I think he is a good passer but until he throws the ball with authority in between the hash and makes quicker reads, I'll have disagree with you that he is better than 110 D-1 QB's because of stats. DM's telling stats are not the 4 TD's and the 7 int's. its when he has the int's and how he has the int's.

Meager is better than Drew Brees, Rex Grossman, Vince Young, Michael Vick, Jim Drunkenmiller and Steve McNair. Look it up!

island eagle · September 25, 2007

Meager is better than Drew Brees, Rex Grossman, Vince Young, Michael Vick, Jim Drunkenmiller and Steve McNair. Look it up!

Unfortunately, completion percentage (or any other such measure) aren't the best indicators of the "effectiveness" of a QB. Joe Montana never led the stats, but he led the intangibles and on the score board.

He knew how to win, how to manage the team, and how to avoid fatal mistakes. That is what I look for in a QB above all. DM and every other QB on the team will ultimately be measured by those standards.

emmitt01 · September 25, 2007

some of you people would complain if your grandmother was on her death bed getting ready to leave you one million dollars.
TD has transformed DM into one of the nations better passing QBs.
--just take a look at some of his stats on ESPN. I am not going to post it but just look it up.
--how can you complain about his immediate improvement??
--DM is completing 65% of his passes and that is probably better than 110 other D-1A QBs.
--DM, after three games when most D-1A teams have played four games he is in the top quarter in passing yards.
--even after the three interceptions in the FAU game UNT was still in the game. I do not have to tell you getting two blocked punts was not DM's fault. Those blocked punts led to 14 FAU points.
--UNT has one receiver in the top five nationally and another rated about in the 40's nationally. Evidently TD's system of "moving the chains" and "getting the ball into the hands of the playmaker so they can make something happen" is working.
--TD is a winner and knows nothing but winning and putting together a winner and that includes DM.
--too many of you have the perverbial "knee jerk" reaction and want some sort of "hail mary blessing" to change our team to what OU has overnight. TD is doing the best he can with what he has to work with and personally I think he is doing a great job.
--the SMU game could have been ours.
--the FAU game could have been ours.
--have patience and let TD and his staff mold us a winner from what he inherited and the recruits he is bringing in.
--nobody in their right "college educated" mind can put all the blame on DM but in the three games that I have seen him play he is doing a great job.
--in the mean time some of you who like to get together in your little sewing circles and have cheese and whine ya'll can continue to do so but I am still "pumped on watching the steady improvements" that TD is bring to UNT football.
--in the mean time I need another fix of sausage on a stick and some more of those boy scout hot dogs and a coke.....and.....that sounds a lot better than cheese and whine.

I think all of the stats in the world pale in comparison to the one intangible that all good to great QB's must possess...they don't end or stop drives because of their mistakes. DM does this, sorry to say. You can say the play calling is lacking, you can say his protection is lacking, you can even bring up blocked punts but the bottom line is he makes the throws. When he looks up and sees a double or triple covered receiver he makes the throws. This "the SMU and FAU games could have been ours" talk is asinine when you consider that all it would take is throwing the ball away when you have nothing. This is something they teach in high school. None of us expected 12-0, not if we were honest with ourselves. What we did expect, though, is someone under center who could manage a game and not be a part of the problem. I know, I know it's fundamentally unfair to heap this much expectation on the QB position alone...or is it? The TD offense is PREDICATED on having a QB that can distribute the ball (to people in same colored jerseys) and move the chains. In a spread offense if your RB isn't stellar you can survive. If your DE's aren't stellar you can survive. If your OL isn't stellar you can survive. They all just have to be serviceable because your QB is outstanding. Why do you think SLC quarterbacks when player of the year every year? I don't think all of the DM apologists understand what the rest of us are getting at. We're not saying DM is a horrible quarterback (well, I'm not at least). Far from it. We're not saying he's solely responsible for losses. Far from it. We're merely saying that, in his zeal to "make a play", he often forces the play and the results are disasterous.

Quoner · September 25, 2007

Unfortunately, completion percentage (or any other such measure) aren't the best indicators of the "effectiveness" of a QB. Joe Montana never led the stats, but he led the intangibles and on the score board.
He knew how to win, how to manage the team, and how to avoid fatal mistakes. That is what I look for in a QB above all. DM and every other QB on the team will ultimately be measured by those standards.

Stats are always the answer. Peyton Manning had great college stats - way better than Tom Brady or Tony Romo.

How long will you guys take these posts seriously?

... because I can do this all day

island eagle · September 25, 2007

Stats are always the answer. Peyton Manning had great college stats - way better than Tom Brady or Tony Romo.
How long will you guys take these posts seriously?
... because I can do this all day

The only stat that matters is the score board.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 25, 2007

On a personal level, I have only one thing to indicate that TD may be stubborn and will stick to what he's started with, no matter what. About 15-16 years ago I needed a car and he had one for sale; I think it was a Bronco, or something similar. I got in touch with him and went over to look at it, and though I don't remember the mileage, he wanted $4000 for it. I thought I could get it for no more than $3700; so I bade, I think, $3400. He was totally non-negotibale; wouldn't come down any at all. I don't know whether he sold it and got his $4000, but if he thinks it's not 'fatal' to win/sell right now, I'm sure he won't compromise.

We already know this. We've watched the coaching staff not change the secondary scheme for three games now. We understood full well up in Norman as we watched their receivers run a track meet through our man coverage all night. We get that he's stubborn. It's doing wonders for our defense, too.

mad dog · September 25, 2007

I think Quoner may be on to something.

Really, when you think about it, what does, say, Troy Aikman have that Daniel Meager doesn't? Who's to say that DM won't have three super bowl rings when all is said and done?

Travis · September 25, 2007

Stats are always the answer. Peyton Manning had great college stats - way better than Tom Brady or Tony Romo.
How long will you guys take these posts seriously?
... because I can do this all day

I enjoy your posts more every day.

Edited September 25, 2007 by Travis

Green Lantern · September 25, 2007

Stats are always the answer. Peyton Manning had great college stats - way better than Tom Brady or Tony Romo.
How long will you guys take these posts seriously?
... because I can do this all day

I take your posts deadly serious (enough so that I'd bold a word for you).

Care to stir up the stadium talk again?

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 25, 2007

It's doing wonders for our defense, too.

It does seem to be showing so much in our defense doesn't it.

Got5onIt · September 25, 2007

I think Quoner may be on to something.
Really, when you think about it, what does, say, Troy Aikman have that Daniel Meager doesn't? Who's to say that DM won't have three super bowl rings when all is said and done?

So you're saying DM is going to the NFL??????? Your post is sig material, my friend. Please tell me you're being sarcastic?