Meager Vs Vizza... Or Not?

[eulesseagle]

I am totally satisfied what Coach Dodge says since he runs the show. What I saw on TV with OU/NT and at the SMU/NT game Meager looks really looks impressive with his foot movement, looking at different receivers and the touch that he has on the ball. Face it folks he got that from somewhere and it ain't the tooth fairy.

NT is only two games into this season and IMHO we have improved with every game under the new "spread eagle" system.

The last thing anyone needs is some "knee jerk" reaction for every player that does not meet some poster's personal expectations.

The "only" thing we need is for us to stand united behind the coach and his decisions on who & whom he plays.

Like some other poster said recently is that Coach Dodge knows more about coaching and football than everyone on this board combined.

Can we all stand up and say Amen?

[SouthBendGreen]

Forgive me if this question has been asked before or is a whip.

If Riley were at NT RIGHT NOW, would he start? I don't think it's a crazy question when you consider how long he's played in the system and his abilities. The reason I ask is this, if you say yes then that answers the question about Vizza's future. I've only seen Riley's highlights and he state championship game last year so I can't answer that. Looking for the opinions of those that have seen him play a lot compared our current QBs.

As for this year, put me in the camp of wanting to see what Vizza can do. I think it's safe to say that either way it shouldn't really affect the outcome for this year in the negative.

And Vizza4QB, it's common knowledge that Riley wasn't going to play much QB at UT. You make it sound like you have some inside info. And he's not going to play WR at NT, he specifically said he wants to prove he can play QB at the collegiate level.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

Forgive me if this question has been asked before or is a whip.

If Riley were at NT RIGHT NOW, would he start? I don't think it's a crazy question when you consider how long he's played in the system and his abilities. The reason I ask is this, if you say yes then that answers the question about Vizza's future. I've only seen Riley's highlights and he state championship game last year so I can't answer that. Looking for the opinions of those that have seen him play a lot compared our current QBs.

As for this year, put me in the camp of wanting to see what Vizza can do. I think it's safe to say that either way it shouldn't really affect the outcome for this year in the negative.

And Vizza4QB, it's common knowledge that Riley wasn't going to play much QB at UT. You make it sound like you have some inside info. And he's not going to play WR at NT, he specifically said he wants to prove he can play QB at the collegiate level.

I wouldn't say that if Riley was here this year, that he would be starting. The argument is made that he knows the system better than anyone, and while that may be in fact true, Vizza I would say knew this type of system far better than Meager did going in. Dodge went after Vizza pretty hard, and from what I have read other places, Vizza may in fact be a better QB than Riley, though I have only seen Riley play. I am not sure Riley's height is enough to play QB at the college level.

I am like you, I would love to see Vizza. Dodge didn't go that hard after him though, for him to sit the bench long term.

[Smitty]

I'm curious how many people who are clamoring for Vizza to replace Meager this year will be clamoring just as loudly for Riley Dodge to replace Vizza next year.

[SLCoutsider]

Another thing to consider is TD's own experience as quarterback at UT. He knows firsthand what it's like to get the starting QB job and then lose it. If Meager continues to show promise and improvement, I won't be surprised to see him starting next year.

Riley could come in, redshirt 1st year, then play WR his Freshmen & Sophomore years (while Vizza is starting), then move to QB as a Junior. Similar to what he and Chase Daniel did at Southlake.

Edited September 12, 2007 by SLCoutsider

[gangrene]

I'm curious how many people who are clamoring for Vizza to replace Meager this year will be clamoring just as loudly for Riley Dodge to replace Vizza next year.

Why do you think some of us are so eager to see Vizza now??!!

Actually that thought has definitely crossed my mind a few times. Common sense tells us that Riley should know this offense as well as Todd. The question then becomes; does he have the physical size and skills to execute the offense on the collegiate level?? Assuming he has that knowledge and Meager and Vizza are still learning/gaining confidence this time next year, will Riley redshirt?

I view Meager as a "serviceable" QB in a great system. He has the experience that Vizza lacks. However, I think Vizza has better skills - quicker delivery, stronger arm and the ability to look downfield. It also seems that Vizza is able to utilize his peripheral vision to see when the pocket is about to collapse without taking his eyes off of his receivers...like that saying "he has eyes in the back of his head". I watched our offense in the OU game a couple of times of Tivo. There were several times in which Vizza would throw the ball just before he was hit by a defensive lineman.

I stand by my position that Meager made the receivers wait for the ball to arrive too many times, but those thoughts are starting to fade from my mind. Now, if I could just stop those nightmares of seeing the wide open receivers being underthrown I think I might be alright.

[Dodge2007]

Its a long season. Better be careful who you annoint so quickly. Most of you guys flip like a fish out of water. Everyone wanted Meager gone and now he is the next best thing since Dan Marino. Next week, he screws up and you'll be calling for Tune or Vizza.

SMU was one game. Stats were off the chart but the stat that mattered was the loss of the game and the three picks in the fourth quarter. If DM can be resilient after he makes a mistake or when the pressure is really on, game after game.... then we got something...same thing for any of the other back ups.

Edited September 12, 2007 by Dodge2007

[Censored by Laurie]

Another thing to consider is TD's own experience as quarterback at UT. He knows firsthand what it's like to get the starting QB job and then lose it. If Meager continues to show promise and improvement, I won't be surprised to see him starting next year.

Riley could come in, redshirt 1st year, then play WR his Freshmen & Softmore years (while Vizza is starting), then move to QB as a Junior. Similar to what he and Chase Daniel did at Southlake.

Four posts in and this guys hit it on the head...great job and welcome to the board.

[Smitty]

Why do you think some of us are so eager to see Vizza now??!!

Actually that thought has definitely crossed my mind a few times. Common sense tells us that Riley should know this offense as well as Todd...

Common sense has nothing to do with this discussion. This is about emotional reactions and the natural attraction to something new.

Another thing to consider is TD's own experience as quarterback at UT. He knows firsthand what it's like to get the starting QB job and then lose it. If Meager continues to show promise and improvement, I won't be surprised to see him starting next year.

Riley could come in, redshirt 1st year, then play WR his Freshmen & Softmore years (while Vizza is starting), then move to QB as a Junior. Similar to what he and Chase Daniel did at Southlake.

This post makes all the sense in the world. This strategy requires patience, and, thankfully, I think the coaches have the patience that a portion of UNT fans are lacking.

[PlummMeanGreen]

And would GoMeanGreen.com be a true and legitimate collegiate message board w/o some semblance of a QB controversy?

GMG!

[PlummMeanGreen]

Common sense has nothing to do with this discussion. This is about emotional reactions and the natural attraction to something new.

This post makes all the sense in the world. This strategy requires patience, and, thankfully, I think the coaches have the patience that a portion of UNT fans are lacking.

Speaking of patience, myself (and many others on this board & beyond) have been patient for a new football stadium for our beloved alma mater (and for me) since September of 1973 when I attended my first Mean Green football game; also Hayden Fry's first to coach at Fouts Field as the new Mean Green HFC.

Well, some of us older nestors (baby boomers on up) are getting impatient (and older than Cooter Brown). It's shake & bake time, UNT stadium fundraisers!

GMG!

Edited September 12, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[SLCoutsider]

Four posts in and this guys hit it on the head...great job and welcome to the board.

Thanks for the kudos. I just noticed my mistake. "Softmore" should have been "Sophomore". It was late when I posted.

Also, I should have added that I'd expect Riley to also be the backup QB while he's playing WR his first couple years. He was an incredible threat in that same role at Southlake his Sophomore year. He would usually come out as a 4th or 5th receiver. His arm and speed opened up all types of WR pass options. A common play was to set him up wide in the backfield and give him a lateral pass. With the defense spread covering 4 other receivers, it gave him plenty of room to run or find an open receiver if the CB rushed him.

I think the other comment about patience is spot-on. Somewhere I read TD say that Chase Daniel could have started at QB as a Sophomore at Southlake. But he had to wait because they had Chase Wasson. Seems like he isn't in a hurry to start Freshmen and Sophomores at that position if he's got a good upper classman.

[gangrene]

Welcome to the board SLCoutsider, I think we're all looking forward to hearing some of your insider information on SLC the last few years.

Also, I should have added that I'd expect Riley to also be the backup QB while he's playing WR his first couple years. He was an incredible threat in that same role at Southlake his Sophomore year.

I understand what you're saying but I'm not so sure I'm comfortable with our back-up QB playing WR at a D-1A college level.

And I don't subscribe to this theory about Todge not wanting to change QBs because "he knows what it feels like to be benched". If that is the case, then am I to believe that once a starting QB is named to begin the season we won't see another QB start all season unless there's an injury?? Don't get me wrong, I don't want a revolving door at QB but...if the starter is not performing or if the back-up is kicking arse in practice, I want to see the best QB on the field at all times. The best QB (or any position for that matter) in week 1 may not always be the best QB in week 6...just ask Drew Bledsoe or Tony Romo.

Edited September 12, 2007 by gangrene

[GoMeanGreen1999]

Another thing to consider is TD's own experience as quarterback at UT. He knows firsthand what it's like to get the starting QB job and then lose it. If Meager continues to show promise and improvement, I won't be surprised to see him starting next year.

Riley could come in, redshirt 1st year, then play WR his Freshmen & Sophomore years (while Vizza is starting), then move to QB as a Junior. Similar to what he and Chase Daniel did at Southlake.

I must say, this does make some sense. It also gives way to the notion that Meager would play all this season if he contiues to do well.

Next week, he screws up and you'll be calling for Tune or Vizza.

I can assure you, I won't be calling for Tune.

[SLCoutsider]

Welcome to the board SLCoutsider, I think we're all looking forward to hearing some of your insider information on SLC the last few years.

I understand what you're saying but I'm not so sure I'm comfortable with our back-up QB playing WR at a D-1A college level.

And I don't subscribe to this theory about Todge not wanting to change QBs because "he knows what it feels like to be benched". If that is the case, then am I to believe that once a starting QB is named to begin the season we won't see another QB start all season unless there's an injury?? Don't get me wrong, I don't want a revolving door at QB but...if the starter is not performing or if the back-up is kicking arse in practice, I want to see the best QB on the field at all times. The best QB (or any position for that matter) in week 1 may not always be the best QB in week 6...just ask Drew Bledsoe or Tony Romo.

Thanks, I'm glad to be here as a new Mean Green fan. I didn't go to UNT (but have several friends that did) and never really had a reason to follow the program until now. I wore UNT colors to the SMU game and took some serious heckling from some drunk frat idiots, so I feel like I've earned my first stripe. And I now have more reason to dislike SMU.

I agree with the concern about back-up QB playing WR at D-1A level. I don't think Riley would be the #1, 2, or 3 WR. As a Sophomore at Southlake, he usually came out only during the 4 and 5 wide receiver sets. Most of his time was on the sideline. However, Todge sometimes did a QB rotation with Riley and Sr QB Greg McElroy where Riley would play QB on every 3rd offensive series. The QB rotation drew some criticism as it cut into McElroy's playing time and stats (he was only a 1-year starter). Anyway, I'm just saying that TD could find some interesting ways to use Riley while Vizza is the starter. Likewise, I hope he finds some interesting ways to use Vizza while Meager is starting. I thought Vizza looked great in the OU game.

My point about Todge's experience being benched is that he's probably going to stick with Meager unless it becomes very obvious that he's not working out. Given a tie between Meager and Vizza, I think the nod will go to Meager. One philosophy would be that, if you have a Senior and a Soph of equal talent, you would start the Soph because he "is the future" and has more potential to gain experience and grow. I don't think Todge subscribes to that philosophy. He's proven at Southlake that a number of players can succeed in his system, even a 1-year starter. His system produced 4 consecutive QBs with state titles and 5a player of the year or offensive player of the year awards. I think he sees Meager as the future for these next two seasons.

Now having said all that, Todge has benched some starters from last season. My guess is that in each case there is an obvious issue with performance or attitude. I'm sure he'll do the same if there is a problem with Meager. Vizza looked great in the OU game and I hope he gets more playing time this season and next. Maybe they'll get some type of rotation thing going. He could have been brought in against SMU when it was obvious that Meager was getting tired. The outcome could have been different with a fresh QB. But at that point, how do you pull a guy that has played his heart out and put up record numbers in such a close game, especially after that 99 yard drive in the 4th?

Bottom line is that I think Meager is the starter for these next two seasons. Todge has bigger issues to deal with, espeically on defense.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

Thanks, I'm glad to be here as a new Mean Green fan. I didn't go to UNT (but have several friends that did) and never really had a reason to follow the program until now. I wore UNT colors to the SMU game and took some serious heckling from some drunk frat idiots, so I feel like I've earned my first stripe. And I now have more reason to dislike SMU.

I agree with the concern about back-up QB playing WR at D-1A level. I don't think Riley would be the #1, 2, or 3 WR. As a Sophomore at Southlake, he usually came out only during the 4 and 5 wide receiver sets. Most of his time was on the sideline. However, Todge sometimes did a QB rotation with Riley and Sr QB Greg McElroy where Riley would play QB on every 3rd offensive series. The QB rotation drew some criticism as it cut into McElroy's playing time and stats (he was only a 1-year starter). Anyway, I'm just saying that TD could find some interesting ways to use Riley while Vizza is the starter. Likewise, I hope he finds some interesting ways to use Vizza while Meager is starting. I thought Vizza looked great in the OU game.

My point about Todge's experience being benched is that he's probably going to stick with Meager unless it becomes very obvious that he's not working out. Given a tie between Meager and Vizza, I think the nod will go to Meager. One philosophy would be that, if you have a Senior and a Soph of equal talent, you would start the Soph because he "is the future" and has more potential to gain experience and grow. I don't think Todge subscribes to that philosophy. He's proven at Southlake that a number of players can succeed in his system, even a 1-year starter. His system produced 4 consecutive QBs with state titles and 5a player of the year or offensive player of the year awards. I think he sees Meager as the future for these next two seasons.

Now having said all that, Todge has benched some starters from last season. My guess is that in each case there is an obvious issue with performance or attitude. I'm sure he'll do the same if there is a problem with Meager. Vizza looked great in the OU game and I hope he gets more playing time this season and next. Maybe they'll get some type of rotation thing going. He could have been brought in against SMU when it was obvious that Meager was getting tired. The outcome could have been different with a fresh QB. But at that point, how do you pull a guy that has played his heart out and put up record numbers in such a close game, especially after that 99 yard drive in the 4th?

Bottom line is that I think Meager is the starter for these next two seasons. Todge has bigger issues to deal with, espeically on defense.

Welcome abord, and thanks for your insight. This all makes a whole lot of sense, and is very helpful, at least to me.

[Mean Green 93-98]

Welcome abord, and thanks for your insight. This all makes a whole lot of sense, and is very helpful, at least to me.

Agreed. And, SLCO, just because you're not an alum, this does not mean you're an "outsider." Welcome to the board, and welcome to Mean Green fandom. Go Mean Green!

[Cerebus]

However, Todge sometimes did a QB rotation with Riley and Sr QB Greg McElroy where Riley would play QB on every 3rd offensive series. The QB rotation drew some criticism as it cut into McElroy's playing time and stats (he was only a 1-year starter).

Hmm...

Dodge was asked about this during media days and he stated that he had never done that. He said he had rotated the backup QB in on the third series of every game, and that he had done that before the backup was Riley. But, to be truthful, I've never watched an entire SLC game so I have idea of what happened.

Anyway, welcome aboard SLCoutsider.

[SLCoutsider]

Dodge was asked about this during media days and he stated that he had never done that. He said he had rotated the backup QB in on the third series of every game, and that he had done that before the backup was Riley. But, to be truthful, I've never watched an entire SLC game so I have idea of what happened.

I'm not really sure how often he did the rotation. It wasn't every 3rd series, but I thought it was more than just one series. Part of the criticism was that McElroy wasn't rotated in like that when he was the backup. I don't know if he did any rotation when Chase Daniel was a backup. Last year, Riley's backup was a Sr and I don't think he got rotated in either. In any case, TD is a definitely a creative offensive guy and I won't be surprised to see Vizza and Riley get quality playing time while they are backups. He's also known for pulling new tricks out of his hat throughout the season and showing defenses things they've never seen on tape. So there's no telling what we might see this season.

[gangrene]

Part of the criticism was that McElroy wasn't rotated in like that when he was the backup. I don't know if he did any rotation when Chase Daniel was a backup. Last year, Riley's backup was a Sr and I don't think he got rotated in either.

So parents were upset because they feel Todge was showing favoritism to his son??

Hmmm....interesting.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

My guess is that Riley will red-shirt next year. Meager will be a senior and Vizza could be the QB. Why burn up a year of eligibility to play if there are capable QBs as upper classmen? .