D-1 Stadiums Under 40000

[NTPhiKap99]

I'd like everyone to realize that a 32000 seat stadium isn't the end of the world. 40 of the 119 full members of D1-A have stadiums under 40000 seats. The following schools all have stadiums which hold less than 40000 and in 2007 these schools plan host #3 West Virginia, #7 Wisconsin, #8 Oklahoma, #12 California, #23 Hawaii, Iowa, Texas Tech, Virginia, Oklahoma State and Maryland all in non-conference play. My point here is that it not the stadium that make the program it's the program that makes the stadium. Boise State is currently investing millions to expand and improve their stadium because fans needed and deserved it. We can do the same thing but it's up to us the fans and donors to do it not the University.

School Capacity / Year Built

Washington State 37600 / 1972. San Jose State 26000 /1933. Boise State 30000 / 1970. Idaho 16000 / 1976. Nevada 31545 / 1967. UNLV 36800 / 1971. Wyoming 33500 / 1950. Utah State 30257 / 1968. New Mexico State 30343 / 1978. Colorado State 30000 / 1968. Tulsa 35542 / 1930. Houston 33000 / 1941. Arkansas State 33410 / 1974. Lafayette 31000 / 1971. Monroe 30427 / 1978. La Tech 30200 / 1968. N. Illinois 31000 / 1965. C. Michigan 30199 / 1972. E. Michigan 30200 / 1962. W. Michigan 30100 / 1939. Ball State 23500 / 1967. Vanderbilt 39730 / 1981. MTSU 31788 / 1933. Southern Miss 33000 / 1976. Duke 33941 / 1929. Troy 30000 / 1950. Marshall 38019 / 1991. SMU 32000 / 2000. Akron 35202 / 1940. Bowling Green 30599 / 1966. Kent State 30520 / 1969. Miami Ohio 30012 / 1983. Toledo 26248 / 1937. Ohio 24000 / 1929. Army 39929 / 1924. Buffalo 31000 / 1993. Navy 30000 / 1959. Florida Atlantic 20400 / 1959. Florida Inter. 25500 / 1982. Cincinnati 35000 / 1916.

[JayDub]

I'd like everyone to realize that a 32000 seat stadium isn't the end of the world. 40 of the 119 full members of D1-A have stadiums under 40000 seats. The following schools all have stadiums which hold less than 40000 and in 2007 these schools plan host #3 West Virginia, #7 Wisconsin, #8 Oklahoma, #12 California, #23 Hawaii, Iowa, Texas Tech, Virginia, Oklahoma State and Maryland all in non-conference play. My point here is that it not the stadium that make the program it's the program that makes the stadium. Boise State is currently investing millions to expand and improve their stadium because fans needed and deserved it. We can do the same thing but it's up to us the fans and donors to do it not the University.

Well put. I think anything over 35,000 will be overkill (so long as it is easliy expandable in the future).

I cleaned it up a little....

School Capacity / Year Built

Washington State 37600 / 1972.

San Jose State 26000 /1933.

Boise State 30000 / 1970.

Idaho 16000 / 1976.

Nevada 31545 / 1967.

UNLV 36800 / 1971.

Wyoming 33500 / 1950.

Utah State 30257 / 1968.

New Mexico State 30343 / 1978.

Colorado State 30000 / 1968.

Tulsa 35542 / 1930.

Houston 33000 / 1941.

Arkansas State 33410 / 1974.

Lafayette 31000 / 1971.

Monroe 30427 / 1978.

La Tech 30200 / 1968.

N. Illinois 31000 / 1965.

C. Michigan 30199 / 1972.

E. Michigan 30200 / 1962.

W. Michigan 30100 / 1939.

Ball State 23500 / 1967.

Vanderbilt 39730 / 1981.

MTSU 31788 / 1933.

Southern Miss 33000 / 1976.

Duke 33941 / 1929.

Troy 30000 / 1950.

Marshall 38019 / 1991.

SMU 32000 / 2000.

Akron 35202 / 1940.

Bowling Green 30599 / 1966.

Kent State 30520 / 1969.

Miami Ohio 30012 / 1983.

Toledo 26248 / 1937.

Ohio 24000 / 1929.

Army 39929 / 1924.

Buffalo 31000 / 1993.

Navy 30000 / 1959.

Florida Atlantic 20400 / 1959.

Florida Inter. 25500 / 1982.

Cincinnati 35000 / 1916.

Edited August 30, 2007 by JayDub

[NTPhiKap99]

Thanks for cleaning it up I typed it in word and when you copy and paste from there it messes with the spacing if you type on individual lines.

[PlummMeanGreen]

REVISED

First of all, I think we all realize that we will build what our present fund-raiser's talents & abilities are able to raise and what those total monies will allow us to build. I think Todd Dodge's motivational spirit coupled with Rick V's similar pro-active attitude will play a part in helping us catapult to a stadium of at least 35K. I don't think Todge threw the numbers of 35K to 40K out on 103.3 FM by accident last nite.

We as alums are all future beneficiaries of the labor of those who presently lead us at UNT. ....................Texas Tech once had a Chancellor who asked for (and received) $20 million from SBC Communications for the sole intent of helping "refurbish" their football stadium. What could UNT do with $20 million now as far as our future stadium plans are concerned? Do we have a Chancellor at UNT who is a fund-raiser delux or extraordinairre at this time? Maybe we do--maybe we don't. Could we use some Big Time fund-raisers at the very top of our administration in Denton?

Speaking as only one whose cracker, snowflake, lilly white derrier will fill but one seat, I'd be very, very, very happy with a 35,000 seat stadium as our future new football venue's initial capacity. That would make us larger than UHouston and several others here in Texas.

But lets look at all the schools whose stadiums are anywhere from 32,000 and below. Not exactly the college football neighorhood most any D1-A school based in Texas would hardly want to be part of and I would think the majority on this board would agree.

If we are content to be thrown in (and disappear off the D1-A radar) with the majority of those schools on the above list in this thread whose stadiums are 32K and less, we can kiss off any CUSA ambitions because CUSA powers that be would probably not think us to be ambitious enough.

At UNT, we're really going to have to do all the extra things to get noticed in our own state, probably in our own DFW Metroplex to boot. Did 4 bowl games do that for us? Without a ranked bowl team each & every one of those 4 years, we were all but brushed aside & ignored by most of our state's large city's TV, newspaper and radio media. <>*<> NOTE: I think we'd all agree that the upside of those 4 bowls were that they got Mean Green football's head above water level so that this program would not completely drown (if you will). There were some posiitves even if we seemed to start our SBC part of the football schedule at 1 & 5 or 0 & 6 some of those seasons.

BACK TO THAT LENGTHY LIST OF SCHOOLS: I think most would also agree that we are not competing against most of the schools on that list, either, but rather we are trying to make some semblance of headway with the 9 other D1-A schools all based in Texas and it will be that kind of (hopeful) success versus most of those Lone Star State based schools (forget UT and TAMU, they're out of reach budget-wise for probably 8 out of 10 Texas D1-A schools truth be known--sorry Red Raiders and BU Bear fans); yet UNT will have to do the extra (seats?) to get any recognition in Texas.

35,000 seats at our new football digs would make many happy campers who I've spoken to. Now...............T. Boone, you listening?

Edited August 31, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[Arkstfan]

Boise averaged more than capacity last year. So I guess they needed to expand.

[NTPhiKap99]

Boise averaged more than capacity last year. So I guess they needed to expand.

That's one that interests me they averaged 30453 in a 30000 seat stadium and plan on spending 39.5 million to expand to 32000. It seems a little steep for 2000 seats but that just proves the 38 suites they're adding really are more important than number of seats. Those suites alone will raise more than 1.6 million dollars.

[Green Mean]

I certainly understand your point NTPHIKAP however of the schools you mentioned, how many of them have a student population of about 35K+ expected to go to 40k+ in just a few years? How many of those schools are in areas that have a metropolitan population of about 6+ million and growing? Though its not a shame to have a new 32k seat stadium, I do think that NT does have an advantage and that is to think about the future because that potential is there. I still say start with 40k-45k and make it expandable to 70k-100k if UNT can ever get to that level. I just feel that this is one of our big shots and it could really be our last shot so why not put all the marbles out on the table and do it right and think for the future?

Edited August 31, 2007 by Green Mean

[UNTflyer]

I certainly understand your point NTPHIKAP however of the schools you mentioned, how many of them have a student population of about 35K+ expected to go to 40k+ in just a few years? How many of those schools are in areas that have a metropolitan population of about 6+ million and growing? Though its not a shame to have a new 32k seat stadium, I do think that NT does have an advantage and that is to think about the future because that potential is there. I still say start with 40k-45k and make it expandable to 70k-100k if UNT can ever get to that level. I just feel that this is one of our big shots and it could really be our last shot so why not put all the marbles out on the table and do it right and think for the future?

If you guys insist on a 40-45k stadium, then count on staying in Fouts for at least 10 years! We don't have the money for it, period. I believe the realisitic maximum seats we can build is in the ballpark of 32-33k.

[KingDL1]

If you guys insist on a 40-45k stadium, then count on staying in Fouts for at least 10 years! We don't have the money for it, period. I believe the realisitic maximum seats we can build is in the ballpark of 32-33k.

That is wonderful conjecture, but do you know something the rest of us don't?

Dodge keeps saying we will open the 2010 season in a 35,000 - 40,000 stadium. He said there are things in the works that can not be publicly released yet.

I would personally would like to see 40,000-45,000 just based on the projected size of the school by 2012 - 2015 and the potential fan-base that I believe Dodge can tap.

As far a money it can just about materialize out of thin air, with a couple of ifs, like winning, good promotion, maybe a conference shift. But I don't really know I just have high expectations.

[GreenMachine]

I'm certainly no big shot at my company but I have had the opportunity to sit in a few high level meetings and you would be surprised at things being discussed that never reaches the public (or the employee's for that matter). I am sure that there are/have been talks going on about a new stadium that NOBODY outside of a very few, even knows have happened. When it comes to big time donations like this, sometimes the less the public knows, the better. If Dodge did say things are happening that he can't discuss and he goes on to mention a stadium, even goes into detail with a timeline, # of seats, and that it will be a double decker, he probably knows something that none of us on this board is privy to.

Edited August 31, 2007 by GreenMachine

[UNTflyer]

Dodge keeps saying we will open the 2010 season in a 35,000 - 40,000 stadium.

I only know of him saying this once. He also said we're going 12-0. He said we're going to win the Belt and will play in N'Orleans in December.

He's the coach, he's the public face of the football program, and he has to be optimistic. He's trying to drum up interest and support.

Why is it when the guy in charge of raising the money says 30k, everyone cringes... but when the coach says 40k in 2010 it's gospel?

I know we're all excited about what's coming to North Texas, but we have to be realistic. It has taken Boise State 8 years to get the rest of the football world to take notice and after beating OU in the Fiesta bowl, they are expanding to... a 33k stadium! I think some of us are getting way, WAY ahead of ourselves in dreaming of a 40+k stadium, and even some silly dreams of 70-100k????

Guys.... we had just over 15,000 in average attendance last year! Even with our new season ticket holders, I don't expect to average more than 22,000 and that's just because we'll probably sell out the Navy game. It's nice to dream big... I often imagine walking into a 50-60k UNT stadium and watching a sell-out game against Texas, Miami, or Ohio State! But it's NOT going to happen anytime soon.

There has been absolutely ZERO justification for building a higher capacity stadium. The ONLY reason the school is even thinking of a new stadium is because Fouts is falling apart and the school needs the land for expansion.

[GreenMachine]

I know several alums at work that love NT football and follow it religiously(on the radio and in the newspaper) but absolutely will not go to Fouts to watch a game. They have all said the day we get a new fan friendly stadium, they are there for every game. I am a die hard that has been to every home game since 1996 and I loathe that damn stadium.

[Censored by Laurie]

I think few things are more embarrassing than a televised football game in a 1/3 full football stadium...and even with our projected growth and HOPEFUL increase in popularity with Papa Todd...filling 40,000 seats by 2010...or even 2015, 2020...on a CONSISTANT basis may be a bit far fetched. A fan base doesn't materialize that quickly...especially in a state with UT and A&M homers in every city and town in the state...ask TCU...or ask early 90s Houston. I believe a 32-35K seat stadium with 10-15 luxury suites and easilly expandable is the most logical. I love Plumm and King's enthusiasm...I just can't see 40,000 people watching Florida International...even if they knew they'd get 7 extra periods of football. We already have some good two or three year OOC games scheduled...KState, Rice, Air Force...and they committed to play in Fouts...a nice 32K stadium may not get UT...but it would get UTEP, Houston, SMU, TCU, Baylor, OK. State and other regional schools that we either havent been able to attract...or havent tried hard enough.

[KingDL1]

There has been absolutely ZERO justification for building a higher capacity stadium. The ONLY reason the school is even thinking of a new stadium is because Fouts is falling apart and the school needs the land for expansion.

I am in a commercial retail real estate office in Dallas, I get to hear lots of rumors about projects such as this and more times than not they happen. I have heard a 40,000 seat stadium several times now. But when TD said it on radio the other day it was nice. Some of the rumors said that is what TD was saying before the radio show. To me it was like a conformation of sorts.

Justification can be made simply from projected growth in the area and the growth in the school. The Rayzor Ranch development is not based on the past but future projections that is how it is usually done. A large stadium does not have to sell out all the time to make the mark, if we can average 28,000 - 30,000 in a 40,000 - 45,000 seat stadium at first we would be doing fine. We would have some room to grow into it. And for using Fouts as a model has several inherent flaws, mostly who wants to sit in those metal bleachers they added on, which makes Fouts effectively a 20,000 seat stadium. Thats not considering the track, the seats, the bathroom, etc.

And the Denton Area has some pretty crazy growth projections for the next 5 - 10 years.

Plus those things in the works but can not be publicly disclosed yet, really sparked my ears the most. Over promising can make you look bad, in RV's case under promising can make you look really good.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

---Looking at the list I think there is one other item to consider.... enrollment.... Most of those listed are a great deal smaller. I would not turn up my nose at a 35,000 new stadium but it needs to be designed so that expansion that be done rather easily to 50,000. North Texas will get to be over 40,000 enrollment plus as the metroplex gets closer (construction is doing this) we could have a need for a much larger one especially if we start scheduling "name" colleges into Denton. Things will change and hopefully for the better. Just think where we were 15 years ago...in the Southland and in I-AA.... a lot of progress has been made in 10 years. As long as the university's athletic department is pushing to improve we will and we are much better known in athletics statewide than we were 10 years ago. ( I don't live in the metroplex) People don't lump us into the SFA and Sam Houston group anymore. Playing OU, Tech, Baylor, and Texas improves your status some even if you lose ...and we have beaten Baylor and Tech in that period.

Beat OU...!! I can dream... Stange things sometimes happen. I don't expect it but I always believe it is possible.. OU had no idea that could lose to Boise either. [ or Kansas in the Big-XII title game a few years ago when they were the slam-dunk #1 against an often beaten team ]

Ka-boom the Sooners.!!

[Quoner]

I am in a commercial retail real estate office in Dallas, I get to hear lots of rumors about projects such as this and more times than not they happen. I have heard a 40,000 seat stadium several times now. But when TD said it on radio the other day it was nice. Some of the rumors said that is what TD was saying before the radio show. To me it was like a conformation of sorts.

Justification can be made simply from projected growth in the area and the growth in the school. The Rayzor Ranch development is not based on the past but future projections that is how it is usually done. A large stadium does not have to sell out all the time to make the mark, if we can average 28,000 - 30,000 in a 40,000 - 45,000 seat stadium at first we would be doing fine. We would have some room to grow into it. And for using Fouts as a model has several inherent flaws, mostly who wants to sit in those metal bleachers they added on, which makes Fouts effectively a 20,000 seat stadium. Thats not considering the track, the seats, the bathroom, etc.

And the Denton Area has some pretty crazy growth projections for the next 5 - 10 years.

Plus those things in the works but can not be publicly disclosed yet, really sparked my ears the most. Over promising can make you look bad, in RV's case under promising can make you look really good.

I don't think under-promising has ever been an issue.

[Cowtown]

here are two of my favorite under 40k stadiums

expandable - yes, slap suites between the tiers, leave the endzone open.

so miss

expandable - not so much, but sweet

harvard

[NTPhiKap99]

Potential, Potential, Potential that’s all I ever hear. How about a little action this university has had more students than seats in the stadium for almost a decade now. I really don’t care if we have 60000 students and 1000000 alumni in DFW if only 15000 show up. I know it’s been a while but does anyone remember a 4 years run in which we went to four consecutive bowls and still never averaged even 20000. That’s not Fouts fault that’s the fans and lack there of. Am I onboard, ecstatic and 110% behind what Todd Dodge is doing but until we start to improve the fan base we need to be realistic and take what we deserve a nice new 30-35k seat stadium isn’t a death sentence. But like I said in a previous post I really feel the next two years are an audition and if attendance and donations increase I can see a 40000 seat stadium in the near future but it’s not up to the school to give it to us it’s up to us to take it and make it necessary. So until we as fans, alumni, student or what ever we are do our part I don’t want to hear another damn thing about potential.

[green_goblin]

expandable - not so much, but sweet

harvard

That I do like.

[Arkstfan]

That's one that interests me they averaged 30453 in a 30000 seat stadium and plan on spending 39.5 million to expand to 32000. It seems a little steep for 2000 seats but that just proves the 38 suites they're adding really are more important than number of seats. Those suites alone will raise more than 1.6 million dollars.

Boise has a smart athletic department. They are putting their investment in high return seats and yet not over-building to the point that people lose the incentive to buy season tickets and donate to get priority.

I always think of the fiasco the University of Memphis had when they moved from Mid-South Coliseum to the Pyramid in basketball. At the Coliseum they had a 10 year waiting list for tickets. If basketball had a down season or two people held on to their tickets because they knew they'd never get back in when it got good. The Pyramid was large enough to handle the entire waiting list and season ticket holders with a little room left over. They hit a couple rocky seasons and people figured out that they could drop the season tickets and just buy tickets to the games they wanted to see (Louisville and Cincinnati) and could pick the season tickets back up when things got better. They went from averaging around 11,000 in the Coliseum to less than 9,000 in the Pyramid. The loss in not only ticket revenue but donations for ticket priority had the entire athletic department teetering due to massive losses. They finally righted the ship but it was made much harder by over-building.

[NTPhiKap99]

Boise has a smart athletic department. They are putting their investment in high return seats and yet not over-building to the point that people lose the incentive to buy season tickets and donate to get priority.

I always think of the fiasco the University of Memphis had when they moved from Mid-South Coliseum to the Pyramid in basketball. At the Coliseum they had a 10 year waiting list for tickets. If basketball had a down season or two people held on to their tickets because they knew they'd never get back in when it got good. The Pyramid was large enough to handle the entire waiting list and season ticket holders with a little room left over. They hit a couple rocky seasons and people figured out that they could drop the season tickets and just buy tickets to the games they wanted to see (Louisville and Cincinnati) and could pick the season tickets back up when things got better. They went from averaging around 11,000 in the Coliseum to less than 9,000 in the Pyramid. The loss in not only ticket revenue but donations for ticket priority had the entire athletic department teetering due to massive losses. They finally righted the ship but it was made much harder by over-building.

I understand that but with our rabid fan base and long waiting list for season tickets we have to build a 40000 seat stadium. RIGHT!