Qb Race

[FirefightnRick]

I don't undertand how anyone can still criticise our QB's from last year and the year before. DM was thrown to the wolves when Joey Byerly failed out of school in '05. DM missed that entire spring due to a shoulder injury and was forced to learn on the fly that august, and still nursing the shoulder. His postion coach was concerned about ONE thing, himself. When things went bad, it was the players fault, never his or the head coaches. When giving instruction it was cussing, screaming, criticising and finger pointing at the players. When it got even worse, his head coach would walk away yelling to himself that it was the players fault. Still, DM was asked to come in behind a very watered down line and had the hell beat out of him all season long. The next year, in '06 it got even worse with the rediculous three man rotation and a two, entirely different O line rotation.

How is it that any QB, DM, Phillips or WW could be held accountable today with that kind of dysfuntion?

Rick

[gangrene]

I don't undertand how anyone can still criticise our QB's from last year and the year before. DM was thrown to the wolves when Joey Byerly failed out of school in '05. DM missed that entire spring due to a shoulder injury and was forced to learn on the fly that august, and still nursing the shoulder. His postion coach was concerned about ONE thing, himself. When things went bad, it was the players fault, never his or the head coaches. When giving instruction it was cussing, screaming, criticising and finger pointing at the players. When it got even worse, his head coach would walk away yelling to himself that it was the players fault. Still, DM was asked to come in behind a very watered down line and had the hell beat out of him all season long. The next year, in '06 it got even worse with the rediculous three man rotation and a two, entirely different O line rotation.

How is it that any QB, DM, Phillips or WW could be held accountable today with that kind of dysfuntion?

Rick

I understand all of your excuses, but that doesn't sway my opinion of DM. Winning cures all things...a few victories, 300-yard passing games and a low INT/TD ratio just might make me come around to your way of thinking. Go ahead DM...prove me wrong. I'd love to eat crow if it means that the Mean Green are exceeding expectations. I do believe in second chances but they don't come easily. Right now, I have two years worth of bad tastes in my mouth and I'm craving some Italian cuisine.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

To me it is Vizza. This year is going to be a learning year either way, and Vizza has a nice history with similar a offense.

[Charlie NT 73]

I agree with FFR reagrding DM. I do not think the guy had much of a chance

to be successful at the beginning. He was thrown into the fire without much

time to develop. For the last 2 years, every team NT played would blitz the

hell out of every play because the opponet knew NT would or could not pass.

Every opponent knew how DD/RF offense worked so defensing NT was not that

difficult. Look what happened to Jamario Thomas. He was blasted many times

before he got the handoff in the backfield. Are you going to rag JT also?

This year will be different. Teams will not stack the box or blitz CB/LB/S's, if

they do-they will pay the price. This will be a huge advantage for the NT offense.

I am not saying DM is the starting QB. I am saying give the guy a chance.

Right now, I feel better with a experienced college QB.

If G Vizza clearly out performs D Meagar, then Vizza should start.

I just want the best QB running the offense. Let Coach Dodge and his staff

make the decision.

Another thought. I know Coach Dodge stated that the starting QB will not look

have to look over his shoulder, well, I do not think he can commit to this. I see

both QB's playing alot this year due to game situations, injury, or if QB play is

not what Coach Dodge wants.

[Mean Green 93-98]

if QB play is not what Coach Dodge wants.

Not sure exactly what you mean there.

[medpilot21]

I don't undertand how anyone can still criticise our QB's from last year and the year before. DM was thrown to the wolves when Joey Byerly failed out of school in '05. DM missed that entire spring due to a shoulder injury and was forced to learn on the fly that august, and still nursing the shoulder. His postion coach was concerned about ONE thing, himself. When things went bad, it was the players fault, never his or the head coaches. When giving instruction it was cussing, screaming, criticising and finger pointing at the players. When it got even worse, his head coach would walk away yelling to himself that it was the players fault. Still, DM was asked to come in behind a very watered down line and had the hell beat out of him all season long. The next year, in '06 it got even worse with the rediculous three man rotation and a two, entirely different O line rotation.

How is it that any QB, DM, Phillips or WW could be held accountable today with that kind of dysfuntion?

Rick

EXACTLY...thanks Rick. I've been saying the same things myself. As much as I liked Darrell Dickey, and still do... he was responsible for RF's actions and failures. I believe the retention of Flannigan as OC was one of DD's biggest mistakes / regrets. No one should judge playing ability based on taht offensive fiasco from Flanny's last year. Give all the guys a fair shot under TD. The right guy will win the job...

Now, if we could just attend practices or scrimmages to SEE who is winning the job?????????

GMG!!!

[jimmyjames_99]

DM, Phillips or WW were on the same team last year. So whatever coaching hell they had to endure, they all endured it. FWIW, I was never pumped when I heard Meager was starting and I was usually happy to see Phillips or WW come in. However, I'll wipe the board clean and try not to have a bias if Meager is picked to start and support him 100%. But if Vizza is picked to start, I will be very excited!

[Eagle1855]

The obvious answer is "whoever wins" but I want Vizza to win it, because he's gonna be here for a while and this is a rebuilding year anyways (no matter what everyone says). I think it would be nice to have a guy start a couple years in a row. Years 2 and 3 could be HUGE with a seasoned QB.

[Charlie NT 73]

"What Coach Dodge wants" -

Here is the "what if game"

What if GV earns the starting QB position. What happens if GV starts

and things start going bad- fumbles, interceptions, missed open receivers, etc.

Is this what Coach Dodge wants? No it is not. I think Coach Dodge

will bench the QB if his performance is not good, and send in QB #2.

I like Vizza, he is a tremendous talent, a play maker, competitive, and

I am thrilled to have him. I am just worried about a true freshman QB

facing the monster defense of OU to start his career. Yes, I think Vizza

needs to get into a game, get some college game experience, and some

measure of success. I just think OU game is not the best starting point

for Vizza. I think the SMU or FAU game in Denton would be the best point

to get Vizza into a game.

[NTPhiKap99]

Not sure exactly what you mean there.

I assume he thinks both will get a lot of playing time unless one of them isn't cutting it then the other will be the guy.

[Mean Green 93-98]

I assume he thinks both will get a lot of playing time unless one of them isn't cutting it then the other will be the guy.

Thanks - makes sense now.

[untgirl04]

"What Coach Dodge wants" -

Here is the "what if game"

What if GV earns the starting QB position. What happens if GV starts

and things start going bad- fumbles, interceptions, missed open receivers, etc.

Is this what Coach Dodge wants? No it is not. I think Coach Dodge

will bench the QB if his performance is not good, and send in QB #2.

I like Vizza, he is a tremendous talent, a play maker, competitive, and

I am thrilled to have him. I am just worried about a true freshman QB

facing the monster defense of OU to start his career. Yes, I think Vizza

needs to get into a game, get some college game experience, and some

measure of success. I just think OU game is not the best starting point

for Vizza. I think the SMU or FAU game in Denton would be the best point

to get Vizza into a game.

Based on what everyone is saying about how Vizza seems to handle pressure, it might be a really good idea to put him in against OU. If nothing else, it's a great measuring stick: If you can keep your head against OU, then you should have no problems with any other teams. And without a doubt, I know that Todd Dodge expects us to be playing in some pretty big games in the future, so might as well break the QB in.

[Mean Green 93-98]

Based on what everyone is saying about how Vizza seems to handle pressure, it might be a really good idea to put him in against OU. If nothing else, it's a great measuring stick: If you can keep your head against OU, then you should have no problems with any other teams. And without a doubt, I know that Todd Dodge expects us to be playing in some pretty big games in the future, so might as well break the QB in.

Of course, if you just throw Vizza to the dogs, it might change the way he handles pressure. I agree, it sounds like the kid has confidence, but you want to develop that confidence, not destroy it. Like Florida did with Tebow last year, break him in by putting him in situations where he can be successful.

[untgirl04]

Of course, if you just throw Vizza to the dogs, it might change the way he handles pressure. I agree, it sounds like the kid has confidence, but you want to develop that confidence, not destroy it. Like Florida did with Tebow last year, break him in by putting him in situations where he can be successful.

Oh, I don't think he should start. But at some point you have to just throw him in there, close your eyes, and hope it works. Here's my line of thinking: true, the OK game will be tough, but there's no pressure to win. Mind you, I'm not saying that Todd Dodge doesn't want us to win or that he won't do everything in his power to give us the chance, but alumni, the university, and the media don't really give us much of a chance. For the SMU game, there's a totally different philosophy. Beating SMU is important for recruiting, important for our own team confidence, and is against a CUSA opponent against whom a win can provide conference prestige (a win against OU probably does more there, but again, we could improve conference/team prestige just by keeping it close with OU).

With that being said, if TD doesn't play Vizza against OU, and starts DM, Tune, Phillip, or Wilson against SMU and it's a close game, would he really pull the starter just to give Vizza some PT? That would go against what he said about not having the starter looking over his shoulder all season. So then, you have to look to FAU. Since it's a conference game and we've never actually beaten them, if the game is close, would he put Vizza in, again, just to get some PT? So what I'm saying is that if TD decides to burn Vizza's 'shirt, it makes sense to just put Vizza into the game at some point during OU, rather than bank on North Texas pulling out wide-margin victories against the next few opponents. Now, if we are in the game in the fourth quarter against OU, I think TD could safely assume that we'll be able to put up numbers on the board against SMU, and I could see him saving Vizza's first appearance until SMU.

Edited August 13, 2007 by untgirl04

[Censored by Laurie]

DM, Phillips or WW were on the same team last year. So whatever coaching hell they had to endure, they all endured it. FWIW, I was never pumped when I heard Meager was starting and I was usually happy to see Phillips or WW come in. However, I'll wipe the board clean and try not to have a bias if Meager is picked to start and support him 100%. But if Vizza is picked to start, I will be very excited!

Thats about my sentiment as well...I don't think you can blame all of our QB failures over the past 2 years to the coaches...1/3 to RF for being a douche...1/3 to DD for hiring a douche and never naming a starting QB...and 1/3 to the QB's for making poor choices. The only person who showed me anything impressive the last two seasons was Woody...and I pray he'll find his way on to the field in some respect...but even more I hope Gio Vizza is already head and shoulders past the returnees

[LongJim]

Offensive line play last year was horrible.

UNT couldn't run effectively--6th in conference, barely--and couldn't pass effectively. Go back and watch the MTSU game from last year. If you're going to bag on the passing game, you better bag on the running game too. The constant in both is offensive line play.

IMO, it's unfair to tar Meager (or any other QB) when he was running for his life all season.

He was an Elite 11 QB, and I believe he can be successful in this system.

[NTPhiKap99]

He was an Elite 11 QB, and I believe he can be successful in this system.

I'm not going to bash Meager or any of the QB's until the season gets here but remember he was at the camp and looked good but he wasn't an Elite 11 QB.

[LongJim]

I'm not going to bash Meager or any of the QB's until the season gets here but remember he was at the camp and looked good but he wasn't an Elite 11 QB.

I should have said he got an Elite 11 invite, and was a national top 100 QB for 2003. My point is that he is not chopped liver at the position.

[GreenMachine]

I have to admit he has the whole package for such a young age.

That statement sir, could get you arrested in some states!

[Smitty]

Unless you're related to or friends with Vizza or Meager or Tune or Phillips or Wilson, why do you care who wins the job?

As a North Texas fan, I want the best quarterback on the field. The coaches are the only ones qualified to make that judgment, not us, so I'm happy to leave that decision to them. I'm going to cheer for whoever is under center, regardless of his name or past experiences or fans' expectations.

[GreenBat]

Unless you're related to or friends with Vizza or Meager or Tune or Phillips or Wilson, why do you care who wins the job?

As a North Texas fan, I want the best quarterback on the field. The coaches are the only ones qualified to make that judgment, not us, so I'm happy to leave that decision to them. I'm going to cheer for whoever is under center, regardless of his name or past experiences or fans' expectations.

DING, DING, DING

That is the correct answer!!

[GrandGreen]

I guess it goes with the QB position, but there was a lot more wrong with the last two NT teams than Meager or any other NT quarterback. Everyone of the returning QBs had some good moments but all had more bad ones. I saw bad decisions made by all the QB's usually running for their lives or eating the ball after the receivers failed to get open in DD's very limited passing game. Meager seems to take the blunt of fan abuse which I have never understood. No one harps on individuals in the offensive line who were continually beaten, the interior of the defense which leaked like a sieve in many games or the corner-backs who played so soft almost guaranteeing first downs for the opponent on any short out pattern.

I really don't care who is the QB other than I guess you had rather, if all things are even, have the younger players develop because they have more years to contribute. I trust TD will make the right decision and I am confident he will get competent play from the Quarterback. The question is can he find the QB that can be a huge difference maker and elevate the whole program.

[Quoner]

"We're backing the white guys." - Tad Doucherson, Former North Texas KA

[gangrene]

Unless you're related to or friends with Vizza or Meager or Tune or Phillips or Wilson, why do you care who wins the job?

That's kind of like saying unless you're in politics you shouldn't care who's elected president of the US, every American should support him/her simply because he/she is an American and the only people qualified to elect the president are those with degrees in political science (or other politic-related degrees).

We are all Mean Green football fans and we all think we know what's best for the team. Luckily, we play no factor in any coaching decision but we will all still have our own opinions, our own preferences are own favorites. I feel that suggesting no one should care who wins the QB job is basically asking everyone to take a step back and be less excited/involved with the program...like we shouldn't be allowed to have or express an opinion regarding the football team...and that's just totally contradictory to the definition of a fanatic.

Besides...maybe I drafted Giovanni Vizza for my college football fantasy team!!

[gangrene]

Daniel Meager's stats the last two years:

2005: 101 completions out of 202 attempts for 941 yards, 4 TDs vs. 8 INTs.

2006: 53 completions out of 100 attempts for 517 yards, 4 TDs vs. 6 INTs.

Ok, since everyone wants to blame DD and staff for the above stats, let’s dig just a bit deeper. Coming out of high school, Meager was ranked anywhere from the Top 5 (as a JR, according to the bio on meangreensports.com) to the Top 85 best QBs (per Max Emfinger) in the state of Texas. There’s no disputing that he was at least a decent D-1A QB prospect. He injured his leg his Junior season of HS (if I recall correctly, he broke it) but returned for his Senior year to lead the (then) 4A J.J. Pearce HS Mustangs to the playoffs and a Bi-District win over Greenville (17-14) before losing to Kimball 37-18 in a Regional playoff game. The rest of this is straight from his bio on meangreensports.com: Completed 129 of 218 passes for 1,720 yards with 16 touchdowns and four interceptions as a senior ... Had 95 carries for 407 yards and eight touchdowns as a senior ... Named first-team all-city quarterback as a junior and senior ... Received District 12-4A First Team honors as a senior quaterback ... Rushed for 397 yards as a junior for 10 touchdowns and 910 yards passing for seven touchdowns ... Named District 12-4A Second Team as a junior ... Came back from his injury and led his team to the second round of the 5-A playoffs in 2003 ... The Dallas Morning News has him listed as No. 63 in its area top 100 at QB

Now, let’s compare that with Giovanni Vizza’s (who also played in 4A) HS statistics from meangreensports.com: In 2006 put up numbers of 107 rushes, 667 rushing yards and seven touchdowns along with 218/357 passing (61%) for 3,278 yards, 37 touchdowns to only eight interceptions and a 116.3 QB rating ... In 2005 had 98 rushes for 687 yards and six scores to go along with 127/215 passing (59%) for 2,062 yards and 17 TD ... Rated fifth overall prospect in San Antonio Express-News Top-20 ... Rushed for 141 yards and 2 TD, threw 26-42 for 347 yards and two scores with no interceptions in 2006 state title game versus Copperas Cove ... Member of 2006 4A Division I state champions; first state title in school history ... Named Offensive Player of the Year – regardless of classification – on 2006 All-Texas team by Dave Campbell’s Texas Football ... Named Offensive Player of the Year for 4A Region IV by TexasHSfootball.com ... Team Texas 4A first team by Texashsfootball.com ... 4A second team All-State by Texas Sports Writers Association ... First team All-Region IV 4A by Texashsfootball.com ... Unanimous All-District 27-4A ... Combined 747 yards passing and seven touchdowns in state finals and semifinals ...2006 All-Area Sub-5A by San Antonio Express-News ... Named 2006 week six area Player of the Week by San Antonio Express-News ... 2005 second team All-District 28-4A ... Rated as state’s ninth-best dual-threat quarterback by Rivals.com ... Member of Alamo Heights team named Most Outstanding Team for 2006 in 4A by texashsfootball.com.

HS Senior seasons

Vizza – All-state

Meager – All-city

Vizza – 37 passing TDs

Meager – 16 passing TDs

Vizza – 218 pass completions

Meager – 218 pass attempts

Vizza – 667 rushing yards and 7 rushing TDs

Meager – 407 rushing yards and 8 rushing TDs

Vizza – State champion

Meager – Bi-District champion

Vizza – named 4A Offensive POY and All-Texas team by DCTF and for 4A region IV by TexasHSfootball.com (too many more to list)

Meager – named District 12-4A first team and all-city first team

All-state vs. all-city, 37 passing TDs vs. 16, 218 pass attempts vs. 218 pass completions...seems to me this is a clear case of anything you can do, I can do better...

That’s all I have to say.... Now, if the damn season would just start we could stop sitting around having pissing matches about who did what when, where and why and who’s fault it was because they did it. I’m ready to see what this team is made of and I’ll support them all the way...regardless of who our QB is.