No Huddle Making Big Linemen Obsolete ?

MeanGreen61 · August 4, 2007

Found this in a post on the Tulsa board. Makes sense with the fast pace of the hurry up no huddle offense. Stamina & agility vs size.

"O linemen are going to be in basketball shape. Thus, the days of superhuge 300+ pounders is gone, because they cannot keep up with the pace of the hurry-up no huddle offense."

Edited August 4, 2007 by MeanGreen61

adman · August 4, 2007

Found this in a post on the Tulsa board. Makes sense with the fast pace of the hurry up no huddle offense. Stamina & agility vs size.
"O linemen are going to be in basketball shape. Thus, the days of superhuge 300+ pounders is gone, because they cannot keep up with the pace of the hurry-up no huddle offense."

Wasn't Jimmy Johnson a big proponent of smaller offensive linemen preferring to beat the D with speed rather than man-handling?

megagreen · August 4, 2007

I think this is a very interesting topic. It seems fairly obvious at all levels of football that the key to winning most games involves the effectiveness of your offensive line. I think that the offensive line is the most important position on the field with the defensive line being a very close second.

Most teams want to find guys that are big, quick, athletic, and strong. I guess the real question here is this:

Can you be equally effective with quick, athletic, and strong without the big? I think the answer to this question might be yes.

The Denver Broncos o-line comes to mind, but the guy that sticks out in my mind the most is Mark Stepnoski. Stepnoski was maybe 270 pounds at best, but he was a MASTERFUL technician when it came to controlling the line of scrimmage. With the Cowgirls, he was as big a reason as any that Emmitt Smith ran for as many yards as he did, but for the ultimate evidence, you need look no further than his time with the Houston Oilers.

There is a reason that Eddie George ran for so many yards early in his career. I used to watch those games when they were still in Houston. Stepnoski and Bruce Matthews (who might be the best offensive lineman of all-time) could take huge interior d-lineman and carve them up like a Thanksgiving turkey.

The guy that comes to mind at North Texas is Andy Brewster. I think he played most of his career at a relatively light weight, but he was very technically skilled.

I'm sure that with Todd Dodge's offense, this kind of o-line will help us.

This is my humble opinion.

GMG!

mitchmaher · August 5, 2007

Hey Everybody,

A fascinating read about O-Line play, especially the Left-Tackle position, is Michael Lewis' recent book "Blindside." It traces the evolution of the Left-Tackle position (related to size, speed, makeup, etc...) while following the recruitment of a compelling young man out of Memphis, TN, Michael Oher (Ole Miss won the battle).

Football folks will love this book.

Take care,

Mitch Maher

eulesseagle · August 5, 2007

case in point....just take a look back at the offense lines that Odessa Permian (MOJO) had in the 80's and 90's when they were going to state on a regular basis. These guys were 40-50 pounds lighter than their oppenents. They key was concentrating on blocking and tackling.

IMHO UNT will see the same in the Coach Dodge era. It appears that Coach Dodge and his staff are concentrating on disciple in these areas, according to the reports some GMG guys who have personally witnessed early scrimmages.

I am also impressed with Coach Dodge installing a sense of pride, disciplined work ethic and a winning tradition attitude into the players.

meangreendork · August 5, 2007

This makes sense. If the smaller, faster, and more athletic O-linemen can get the first actions and get the first and most effective leverage, then they'll probably win the shoving match.

Green Crazy · August 5, 2007

Wasn't Jimmy Johnson a big proponent of smaller offensive linemen preferring to beat the D with speed rather than man-handling?

I don't think so, the only small o linemen he had was stepnoski,the others like... newton, allen, tuinei, williams, and gogan were all huge.

EagleD · August 5, 2007

I'm by no means a football scholar, but wouldn't the size of your O-Line depend on the offensive style of play?

If you are a run oriented team (Dickey), then you'd want big linemen to make a push and create a gap for the RB to run through. Controlling the clock gives the O-Line more time to recover between plays.

Pass oriented teams (Dodge) look to control the line and create a pocket. This requires more finesse and technique. Also, Dodge will require his team to be set as soon as the ball is whistled ready for play. They may take a lot more time to actually snap the ball, but he wants to keep the defense guessing and limit the time the opponent has to call a play. This requires your O-Line (usually the largest men on the team) to be in good condition.

Jimmy Johnson's Cowboy teams had the best of both worlds. Big men with skill and endurance. His teams were also quite balanced b/w run/pass.

Just my 2 cents.

GO MEAN GREEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BEAT THE HELL OUT OF OU !!!!!!!!!!!!

SilverEagle · August 5, 2007

IHMO it the only thing that matters is that you have the type/size of lineman that you need for your offense. Under the "type", I always prefer linemen in the Andy Brewster mold. Andy was tenacious, smart, and I've heard on more than one occasion that he had a pretty big streak of mean in him as well.

Now, having said that you aren't going to successfully run a DD type offense with a group of "sveltish" o-linemen. And you're not going to be able to run a successful spread offense with a bunch of bulldozers.

So what is the ideal size for our offense? I don't know for sure, but here are some of the previous weights and current weights of the O-Linemen.

Tyler Bailey, 6-2 X 275....no change

Chris Eidd, 6-3 X 306.......no change

Jeff Moehrig, 6 X 293.......no change

Chad Rose, 6-3 X 274.......this year 285

Kelvin Drake, 6-2 X 300....this year 310

Robert Peachey, 6-5 X 279....no change

Robert Carlson, 6-5 X268.... this year 280

Matthew Menard, 6-5 X 275...no change

Bryan Glass, 6- X 277....this year 280

Adam Venegas, 6-3 X 293....no change

Jack Crumes, 6-4 X 266 .......no change

Esteban Santiago, 6-5 X275....this year 302

Nick Foster, 6-3 X 340........no change

The only new O-Lineman listed (currently) on the official roster is Matt Tomlinson, 6-5 X 270.

It's hard to tell anything from looking at the raw stats. I would tend to assume that the coaching staff is pretty satisfied with the

previous sizes of the o-line.

I do wonder however if the O-linemen that have gained some weight represent the positions where most of the running

plays will go.

Coach · August 5, 2007

You can run the ball with smaller lineman as long as they are strong, stay disciplined with their technique, and get after it. The best example I can think of is the Broncos in the late 90's and early 00's. They were way smaller than most lines, and ran the ball better than anyone else. If you are strong and get on somebody's hip, you will be effective, no matter how much you weigh. To me, a squat max is more important than body weight for lineman.

While Dodge's offense is no huddle, I wouldn't classify it hurry up like the original post states. In fact, it may even take less conditioning than a traditional huddle offense because a trip to and from the huddle are eliminated. There is plenty of time while the coaches read the defense and make the formation and then play call for a lineman to catch his breath. I guess what I am saying is if you are in good enough shape to play in a traditional huddle offense, you are in good enough shape to play in Dodge's offense.