Fw*telegram On New Stadium Status Link

Eagle1855 · July 25, 2007

We built a 30,000 seat stadium already and they're not coming.
You're not going to get a large following just because we have a nice stadium. We have to get butts in the seats first, and then we can justify a new 40,000-seat stadium. With our average attendance hovering somewhere around 17,000, it's not surprising that there isn't a lot of support for a new stadium.

A stadium alone will not a program make, but it doesnt hurt to plan ahead. People think NT athletics is a joke because there's never been any kind of commitment or embrace by the admin. I think this culture is changing, so for once, I say use some foresight and go big. It won't cost you much more, and it shows you are serious- to potential coaching candidates in the future, potential recruits, potential students, and potential bandwagon fans.

UNTflyer · July 25, 2007

Comparing our attendance to SMU's is ridiculous. Our undergraduate enrollment is 4 times their total enrollment and we have outdrawn them consistently the last few years with far less attractive opponents coming to Fouts

Last year we averaged 222 more in attendance than SMU. We were ranked 107th in DIV-I, one spot higher than SMU and one spot lower than Temple.

greenminer · July 25, 2007

Last year we averaged 222 more in attendance than SMU. We were ranked 107th in DIV-I, one spot higher than SMU and one spot lower than Temple.

ugh. temple?!

UNTflyer · July 25, 2007

ugh. temple?!

Yes. And I was mistaken... we averaged 15650 last year, not quite the 17k figure.

UNTLifer · July 25, 2007

Last year we averaged 222 more in attendance than SMU. We were ranked 107th in DIV-I, one spot higher than SMU and one spot lower than Temple.

True BIS?

Still, comparing us to SMU is not an apples to apples comparison.

*Enrollment difference.

*Large Public University vs. small snotty private

*Growth potential vs. small snotty private.

*33,000 enrollment vs. 8,000

*Projected 2nd largest university in the state vs. 8,000

Daddy Dumpsalot · July 25, 2007

Still, comparing us to SMU is not an apples to apples comparison.
*Enrollment difference.
*Large Public University vs. small snotty private
*Growth potential vs. small snotty private.
*33,000 enrollment vs. 8,000
*Projected 2nd largest university in the state vs. 8,000

Yet still we only had 222 more people in attendance. Kinda sad :huh:

GreenN'walinsVet · July 25, 2007

Everyone that says a 30,000 seat stadium is useless is dead wrong. A 30,000 seat stadium will provide us the opportunity to host some big name programs. Look at SMU, they hosted OSU a couple years back, and open with Tech this year in Dallas. THe reason these programs arnt coming to denton isnt becuase fouts holds 30,000 people, its becuase Fouts is a Sh*t hole.

KingDL1 · July 25, 2007

Yet still we only had 222 more people in attendance. Kinda sad

We have to build for the future not for the past, the University is growing and the mind set is getting more "Big School". Building a stadium that the student body won't fit into is ridiculous. If the need to fill fouts is first so be it. GO DODGE!!! He is the man to do it.

FirefightnRick · July 25, 2007

Imagine how far behind we would be today had Dr. Pohl not have canned Helwig and we continued to sit on our heels doing nothing in way of getting much needed facilities in place first before a new stadium could have even been discussed?

People need to read LongJim's post again and calm the hell down. RV, the university and the BOR has committed to this project. A large amount of money has already been spent towards it up to this point and things are moving forward as fast as it can go. There is no turning back now. The new stadium will be built, and right where it should be, next to the first phase of it's overall plan, the AC Center.

Rick

Edited July 25, 2007 by FirefightnRick

GrandGreen · July 25, 2007

A newspaper column that puts doubt on NT getting a new stadium at all, and we have people bitching' that the stadium we may not get is not big enough. Just because NT has never filled the 30,000 seat stadium it has and apparently will be damn lucky to fund any kind of new stadium doesn't apparently deter wishful thinking. Look at NT's recent track record at raising funds. An athletic center that took almost twice as long to build as projected even when significantly downsized. Yes NT's athletic fund raising has improved over the past but is still way behind almost every other NCAA 1a program.

Who knows what is going on? NT has build an athletic center that is to be connected to a football stadium. NT representatives have apparently told or at least strongly hinted that a new stadium is in the near future to recruits. When I in another post stated that the new stadium has never been officially announced, a number of people politely told me that it had been in fact and I didn't not know what I was talking about. Now RV states that NT is just now doing a feasibility study. All this does not add up. I think it is time for even the unwashed fans that do not have the potential to donate big money to the program to be advised of what the exact status of the stadium project is; good, bad or hopeless.

Quoner · July 25, 2007

Now RV states that NT is just now doing a feasibility study. All this does not add up. I think it is time for even the unwashed fans that do not have the potential to donate big money to the program to be advised of what the exact status of the stadium project is; good, bad or hopeless.

How dare you sir?

Cerebus · July 25, 2007

This is why I hate for rumors to take off on this board.

1) No one annouces anything official.

2) Something is over heard, told by a friend, read between the lines, etc...

3) Posted.

4) Repeated.

5) Taken as Truth.

6) Furious wrath descends on those who never said anything in the first place.

I really hate to see what this board is going to look like if we stumble out of the gate this season.

greenminer · July 25, 2007

I really hate to see what this board is going to look like if we stumble out of the gate this season.

Bah! Blasphemy!

PlummMeanGreen · July 25, 2007

Plumm and a few others make it sound like that all we need to do is get the right fundraiser in there. Not true. When a univerisity is building relationships the way it should with its alums and creating positive memories over the years, it creates alums who have an emotional connection to the univerisity...who want to give back. When some of those CONNECTED alums get into very high places, then they have the power to give big and make things like this happen. We have some very rich alums...they just aren't there in the "connected" category. Having the right fundraiser doesn't change our alums. Only lots of time and investment changes our alums. Major support is built over decades...not over night. We are just beginning to crawl in that department. Having students experience wonderful times following the Mean Green in their younger years goes a long way to building those connections.
I do wish that we could get the track out of there and at least move the endzone seats up to the action and maybe put some more bleachers up on the sidelines. That would create more game day noise. There have to be some affordable things we could do even now.

You are probably right, "the real grad 88" for some cases, but how many years (decades) had UNT spent developing Onstead, Warranch, McIngvale, Goldfield and any of this group? I rest my case.

If we go by the "such Big Donors" need to be developed for years, then I fear we are going to soon be out of the new stadium business for sure but FWIW..............I'm with GrayEagleOne inasmuch as we will be getting Good News on a new stadium much sooner than later and it will come from one (or more than one) who UNT probably hasn't even spent 1-2 years developing.

Fellas, doing anything with Fouts Field had been ruled out long ago (just like Deep Green said in his post). I recall that a friend of many of ours, ie, the late Robert Wade Brown (NT Ex & late owner of Brown Foundation & Repair) ran a foundations study on Fouts Field several years ago and his report was what you would hardly call promising as far as digging out Fouts or adding anything to any of its present concrete structure. I wish it was other-wise, fellow alums, but it just flat out ain't on that particular subject.

UNT's upper echelon has way too much to lose as far as face with this new stadium business. Folks, we are going to get a new stadium--lock, stock & barrell and you can put that in 3 inch headlines.

Later....Gotta' go to Dallas for a meeting, dammit!

Cerebus · July 25, 2007

You are probably right, "the real grad 88" for some cases, but how many years (decades) had UNT spent developing Onstead, Warranch, McIngvale, Goldfield and any of this group? I rest my case.

I think grad88's point was that as the size of the gift increase linearly, the chances of a cold call receiving that gift falls exponentially.

You have to admit none of those, heck all of those gifts combined, would be enough to start a stadium fund.

July 25, 2007

So much to say, so little time to say it.

Let's talk about Fouts first.

When Fouts was built in 1952 there was nothing else close except the NT golf course. I take that back there was a men's dorm known as Leggett Hall. It was a WWII army barracks converted for residence hall usage. Chilton Hall and the Music Hall were the only permanent buildings that were in proximity. The nearest highway was 377 which ran from Fort Worth. It's now known as Fort Worth Drive and connects to Elm St. at Eagle Dr. US77 from Dallas came up Locust and connected to Elm St. at the Square, then went north out Elm St. to Gainesville, Oklahoma City, etc. The only north/south thorogare west of Fouts was Bonnie Brae. It was the last street on the west side of town.

I'm not sure what year the Interstate was cut through. It was the only sliver of land that could connect the Dallas highway to the Interstate being built west of town. Anything else would have destroyed the golf course, or part of the NT campus, or a major number of residences. The only other alternative would have been to go several miles further south and that, at the time, would have missed Denton. Anyway, they were able to squeeze in a four-lane divided highway; missing Fouts by a scant 100 feet or so. It appears that future expansion to six lanes will require at least enough additional footage to the edge of the stadium, if not beyond.

After Hayden Fry arrived, he determined that an expansion of Fouts would be a fast track for North Texas to advance our stature with an eye toward the Southwest Conference. He had feasibility studies done with the purpose of removing the trance and digging down to put in a field and lower stands. The study showed that couldn't/shouldn't be done because of the water table. As I recall, the only plausible improvement would be to tear down the west (alumni/press box) side and move it closer to the east stands. The track would also be removed. The problem was, that would be too costly when compared to just building a new stadium.

A lot of what realgrad88 says is true but I disagree with him regarding name recognition of fund raisers. I think that you are much more prone not only to give but to give more if called on by a person of national or state prominence. Would you be more inclined to give because the college president asked rather than someone from the advancement staff. It's much easier to turn down someone that you don't know.

We have a football coach now that is the best ambassador for North Texas than anyone since Hayden. I'd love to see us pull out all the stops and quietly hire (consultants) who can and will bring in the big donors.

gangrene · July 25, 2007

Everyone that says a 30,000 seat stadium is useless is dead wrong. A 30,000 seat stadium will provide us the opportunity to host some big name programs. Look at SMU, they hosted OSU a couple years back, and open with Tech this year in Dallas. THe reason these programs arnt coming to denton isnt becuase fouts holds 30,000 people, its becuase Fouts is a Sh*t hole.

While I agree with your opinion on Fouts, I'll have to disagree about that being the reason the big schools won't play in Denton. While it's true that SMU has managed to host OSU and TTech (twice now), I still feel that we'll have trouble convincing TTech, TAMU or UT to travel to Denton with stadium that only seats 30K.

#1 - We won't have enough seats for them (remember, we sold out Fouts for the Baylor game). Also, I believe we had 30K+ for both the TTech ('98 and '00) and TAMU ('97) games we played at Texas Stadium back in the Matt Simon days.

#2 - Also, the revenue generated from 30K may not be enticing enough to get the big programs to Denton.

Look at NT's recent track record at raising funds. An athletic center that took almost twice as long to build as projected even when significantly downsized. Yes NT's athletic fund raising has improved over the past but is still way behind almost every other NCAA 1a program.

Hmmm...I propose a challenge to the current 4,655 GMG members who are UNT alumni and/or fans of the football program in which GMG members start a fundraising rally. I have no idea how many of those 4,655 may be MTSU, A-State or posters from another opponent, but if we could get 4,000 members to commit to just $100, that's a cool $400K we could donate to the "stadium fund". If we really wanted to make a splash that would get us noticed by the university and the local (possibly national) media, then those same 4,000 GMG members could dig a little deeper and donate $250. That would make our contribution an even one million dollars. I know that most of us already contribute to our great alma mater, but it would make so much more of a statement for our cause if we pooled our contributions together and donated it as a lump sum.

adman · July 25, 2007

This is why I hate for rumors to take off on this board.
1) No one annouces anything official.
2) Something is over heard, told by a friend, read between the lines, etc...
3) Posted.
4) Repeated.
5) Taken as Truth.
6) Furious wrath descends on those who never said anything in the first place.
I really hate to see what this board is going to look like if we stumble out of the gate this season.

Sounds like Fox News.

NT03 · July 25, 2007

IF WE CAN'T SELL OUT OR COME CLOSE TO IT EVERY HOME GAME THIS YEAR , DO WE DESERVE A NEW STADIUM ???

IF WE CAN GET AN AVERAGE OF 25,000K+ THEN THIS WILL OPEN THE EYES OF THE POWERS TO BE AND HOPEFULLY FORCE A NEW STADIUM

IF WE AVERAGE SAY LESS THAN 20,000k THAN IM SORRY TO SAY , WE DON'T DESERVE A NEW STADIUM.

INSTEAD OF EVERYONE WORRING ABOUT THIS , LET'S ALL DO OUR PART AND TRY TO GET EVERYONE YOU KNOW BUTT's IN FOUTS THIS YEAR.

UNTLifer · July 25, 2007

Sounds like Fox News.

or CNN

Dodge2007 · July 25, 2007

Fouts is one of the worst stadiums in D-1 football. It is embarassing to say that porta johns our nicer than the stadium restrooms. Water is pouring all over the place, what a freakin joke.

But at the same time, selling only 3000 season tickets doesn't get you a new stadium. Averaging less than 16,000 doesn't get you a new stadium. Dodge alone will not bring a new stadium.........but the coaches our using the NEW STADIUM CARD with every recruit. I don't like that strategy of recruiting.......its a short term bridge to the next level job. (At least one could contrue it that way)

Maybe we can lease Dragon Stadium for home games and the Dragon Bubble Dome for when we can't practice outside. Hey at least we would have a sellout everygame and have restrooms that work. Food is a lot better as well.

MeanGreen61 · July 25, 2007

Fouts is one of the worst stadiums in D-1 football. It is embarassing to say that porta johns our nicer than the stadium restrooms. Water is pouring all over the place, what a freakin joke.
But at the same time, selling only 3000 season tickets doesn't get you a new stadium. Averaging less than 16,000 doesn't get you a new stadium. Dodge alone will not bring a new stadium.........but the coaches our using the NEW STADIUM CARD with every recruit. I don't like that strategy of recruiting.......its a short term bridge to the next level job. (At least one could contrue it that way)
Maybe we can lease Dragon Stadium for home games and the Dragon Bubble Dome for when we can't practice outside. Hey at least we would have a sellout everygame and have restrooms that work. Food is a lot better as well.

1. Try to minimize your trips to the john.

2. Go to Fouts with the mindset that you're there to watch a game and not critique the facility.

3. Find out exactly what the coaches are or are not saying about a new stadium before you construe ( not contrue) they are putting out false/misleading info.

4. Have a nice day.

LongJim · July 26, 2007

Fouts is one of the worst stadiums in D-1 football. It is embarassing to say that porta johns our nicer than the stadium restrooms. Water is pouring all over the place, what a freakin joke.

I think someone posted this last year. It's still hilarious.

UNTFan23 · July 26, 2007

We're no closer to remodeling Fouts than we are building a new stadium. Keep in mind if we remodel all of Fouts, even in phases, we'd have to spend a year in some other stadium (Cotton or Texas Stadium) if we touch the press box side, which would only increase the costs of remodeling Fouts.

Anyone that thinks we could tear down the Press box and stands, grade dirt, pour concrete, and build out the press box and stands in less than 9 months has never watched a construction project of that size before.

Attempting to bowl out Fouts would only double the time and expense.

KingDL1 · July 26, 2007

Anyone that thinks we could tear down the Press box and stands, grade dirt, pour concrete, and build out the press box and stands in less than 9 months has never watched a construction project of that size before.
Attempting to bowl out Fouts would only double the time and expense.

Who are you kidding, Todd Dodge could get the job done in two weeks and still take Sundays off.

Edited July 26, 2007 by KingDL1