Campus

KingDL1 · July 24, 2007

Part of the college experience is about creating memories. Would you rather create memories in a sterile, homogeneous, surveillance camera infested corporate environment, or in an area which possesses a little history and uniqueness? I for one am going to miss Fry Street. The world is going to continue churning out cookie cutter suburbia, but the Fry Streets of the world are few and far between. Besides, people are going to "get drunk and get drugs" regardless of their environment.

The elevations are nice and as long as there are bars, coffee houses and restaurants the students will have a place to hang out, and it will develop a personality of its own, don't forget the rest of Fry street is still there.

CMJ · July 24, 2007

I think many people tend to pucker up whenever anyone mentions socialism. But honestly most democratic systems use some sort of socialized version of capitalism. Even the USA with such things as a minimum wage, labor laws, and anti-trust legislation - ALL of which are against the tenents of pure capitalism.

More countries are moving towards social democracies every year. Great Britain's Labour Party is perceived as a party for social democracy - and they have been our closest ally for years. The idea of combining capitalism and socialism is hardly a boogeyman.

Edited July 24, 2007 by CMJ

Daddy Dumpsalot · July 24, 2007

Keep going this is fun! :thumbsup:

UNTLifer · July 24, 2007

Creativity and artistic expression are ridiculous? I guess everything should've just been beige.

CBL, creativity and artistic expession aren't ridiculous, but expressing them on the side of a head shop is not the appropriate place. These buildings looked like crap and were an eye sore. Everything doesn't need to be beige but should be presentable. Then again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I wish the buildings could have been restored to their original appearance, because they were historically appealing. I firmly believe we should preserve history, but not deface it.

I don't believe socialism has a place in America, and yes, you did make the comment that Al Qaeda had reasonable goals, but you did state that you didn't agree with how they choose to acheive them.

CMJ · July 24, 2007

I don't believe socialism has a place in America

Let's do away with the 8 hour work day, 5 day work week, overtime, paid vacations, child labor laws, and any other numerous things that socialistic thinking have brought to the country. These types of laws were all put in place because no matter how crappy the pay, hours worked, etc - there is always someone willing to take the job. Or make their child work.

UNTflyer · July 24, 2007

Boy...you very deftly took that out of context. Are you employed by Fox News...if not send them a link to this site and you're bound to get a job as a writer and researcher for Bill O'Reilly.

I don't think keeping your quote in context makes it any better:

Al Queda is a political organization whose membership happen to be Muslim. They're goal is to end Western occupation and establish a strong, unified Muslim state as is outlined in the Koran. Their goals are reasonable...they're means in achieving those goals are saddistic, counter-productive and hypocritical to their religious views.

You've made it clear that you are ok with al-Qaeda and socialism. You are entitled to your fringe opinions, but you do realize that you're in a distinct minority don't you?

Quoner · July 24, 2007

I don't think keeping your quote in context makes it any better:

You've made it clear that you are ok with al-Qaeda and socialism. You are entitled to your fringe opinions, but you do realize that you're in a distinct minority don't you?

CBL, you are apparently the worst thing to happen to America since integration... freedom isn't free.

meangreenacct · July 24, 2007

Hate to break it to you Lifer...but socialism has its place in America...pure capitalism will leave you the exact same result as pure socialism...neither work without the other and this country is still very much weighted toward the capitalism.

I concur!

UNTflyer · July 25, 2007

CBL, you are apparently the worst thing to happen to America since integration... freedom isn't free.

Yeah CBL, if you don't throw in your buck 'o five who will?

runt96 · July 25, 2007

During the mid to late 1970's building space in the Deep Ellum area bottomed out at around $2-$5 per square foot and many artists and small businesses moved in and revitalized an historically significant area...land speculation quickly followed as the Deep Ellum area is right next to downtown and was prime real estate to expand the downtown skyline. Admist discussion and protest, the city stepped in and formulated a plan known as The Near-Eastside Plan in the early 1980's that controlled land usage and established construction and height regulations...essentially saving the Deep Ellum area from becoming an expansion of the downtown skyline, as the market would've determined if city management wouldn't have recognized the importance of the area. Now, say what you want for what Deep Ellum has become today...but the area was a popular and economically viable area for nearly 20 years following this project.
Hate to break it to you Lifer...but socialism has its place in America...pure capitalism will leave you the exact same result as pure socialism...neither work without the other and this country is still very much weighted toward the capitalism.

Yes, we really do need to follow Dallas' lead. I agree Deep Ellum has become something special, but Dallas(politically) is fast approaching the Detroit of 6-10 years ago. Hopefully a new and competent mayor(whose greatest concern is not just potholes) will get Big D going in the right direction. Maybe we will, someday, have as impressive a skyline as Houston.

UNTflyer · July 25, 2007

Yes, we really do need to follow Dallas' lead. I agree Deep Ellum has become something special, but Dallas(politically) is fast approaching the Detroit of 6-10 years ago. Hopefully a new and competent mayor(whose greatest concern is not just potholes) will get Big D going in the right direction. Maybe we will, someday, have as impressive a skyline as Houston.

Thank goodness the government stepped in and hindered the natural evolution of the free market. If they hadn't, the downtown CBT might have expanded, jobs might have been created, tax revenues might have increased, and they might have even cleaned up the Fair Park area making it attractive for a football and baseball stadium. But thanks to "socialism" Deep Ellum remains a low-rent run-down area for head shops, tatoo parlors, night clubs, and criminals. Hurray, socialism!

meangreendork · July 25, 2007

CBL, creativity and artistic expession aren't ridiculous, but expressing them on the side of a head shop is not the appropriate place. These buildings looked like crap and were an eye sore. Everything doesn't need to be beige but should be presentable. Then again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I wish the buildings could have been restored to their original appearance, because they were historically appealing. I firmly believe we should preserve history, but not deface it.
I don't believe socialism has a place in America, and yes, you did make the comment that Al Qaeda had reasonable goals, but you did state that you didn't agree with how they choose to acheive them.

Good statement, sir.

The buildings themselves were in pretty shoddy shape, but I think the businesses themselves got the ugly end of the deal. We'll just hope they'll find new homes around town. Now, the older buildings would've been nice if they got restored, but they were in that bad condition if I remember right. Unfortunately, it looked like the new developers didn't have the old businesses in mind to that end.

Now for socialism- it, like many things in this world, is fine and useful to an extent. Public transportation, limited workdays, etc, have some place here. But total control of someone's earnings, total media control by the government, and the like don't have a place here. And yeah, the Muslims do have a reasonable goal if they stick to what's supposed to be there- which is a Muslim state in the Middle East. Unfortunately, that's perverted by assorted radicals and twisted to become a total destruction of the Western world...which isn't part of what the teachings were. It's sad stuff that religious fervor becomes hate.

You could argue that Christianity's goal is to overtake the other world religions and that's got its share of radicals as well. Depending on which sect of Christianity you dig up, the only difference between them and radical Muslims is a bomb strapped to someone's chest. I've seen some "Christians" (in quotes because I don't think Jesus or God would really approve of their methods or statements) wage serious hate against homosexuals and anyone else that doesn't side with them. It's pretty sad, too.

runt96 · July 25, 2007

Thank goodness the government stepped in and hindered the natural evolution of the free market. If they hadn't, the downtown CBT might have expanded, jobs might have been created, tax revenues might have increased, and they might have even cleaned up the Fair Park area making it attractive for a football and baseball stadium. But thanks to "socialism" Deep Ellum remains a low-rent run-down area for head shops, tatoo parlors, night clubs, and criminals. Hurray, socialism!

Clean fair park??? If Jerry Jones would have brought the cowboys to Dallas, Fair park would be clean. But , as usual, Arlington beat out big D.

gksmith · July 25, 2007

Now to get back on topic......

So the red building in the middle of the area is Cool Beans? Is that staying?

runt96 · July 25, 2007

Good statement, sir.
The buildings themselves were in pretty shoddy shape, but I think the businesses themselves got the ugly end of the deal. We'll just hope they'll find new homes around town. Now, the older buildings would've been nice if they got restored, but they were in that bad condition if I remember right. Unfortunately, it looked like the new developers didn't have the old businesses in mind to that end.
Now for socialism- it, like many things in this world, is fine and useful to an extent. Public transportation, limited workdays, etc, have some place here. But total control of someone's earnings, total media control by the government, and the like don't have a place here. And yeah, the Muslims do have a reasonable goal if they stick to what's supposed to be there- which is a Muslim state in the Middle East. Unfortunately, that's perverted by assorted radicals and twisted to become a total destruction of the Western world...which isn't part of what the teachings were. It's sad stuff that religious fervor becomes hate.
You could argue that Christianity's goal is to overtake the other world religions and that's got its share of radicals as well. Depending on which sect of Christianity you dig up, the only difference between them and radical Muslims is a bomb strapped to someone's chest. I've seen some "Christians" (in quotes because I don't think Jesus or God would really approve of their methods or statements) wage serious hate against homosexuals and anyone else that doesn't side with them. It's pretty sad, too.

There's more profound differences than bombs to the chest. We do not stone folks. We're tolerent of others. I'm not referring to the nut cases as "we". The people who harm others with their "jihad" need to be excommunicated, whether they are christian, muslim, or whatever. There seems to be a growing animosity towards religious folks in this country that goes beyond the lack of tolerence some religious folk are accused of. Socialism Is the easiest way to void a person of faith, simply referring to anything good the government does as a "socialism working" is wrong. Socialism in any form is EVIL.

I'll now get off of the soap box, i've vented.

emmitt01 · July 25, 2007

Maybe they could become Dallas cops and learn to plant fake drugs on people and cost the city 6 million in lawsuits...would that make them less useless?

You have the sheer audacity to lump me in with criminals, not just rogue cops but criminals, all the while throwing out straw man arguments left and right to defend your stances that have come under perfectly logical and cogent attacks? That I'm replying at all shows that my temper and pride have gotten the better of my judgement because you are on face ridiculous and unworthy of a retort. But, as I'm in a foul mood after working a 70 week this week to take real drugs and thugs off the streets (Every hear of the Aryan Brotherhood?) I find myself replying to someone who hasn't the common decency or sense to differentiate difference of opinion from personal attacks.

You bring up Deep Ellum as if it is the paragon of what a downtown area should be like. I actually patrol your utopia and let me tell you it aint as pretty as you'd like to make it out to be. The "artists" who inhabited it for your 20 year golden age simply did not have the capital (ooh, there's a dirty word) to sustain their bars and clubs while catering to local artists and charging "reasonable" cover at the door. Clubs that catered to a younger, more rambunctious, and sadly more criminal element could pack em in Mon-Sun so they thrived in the buildings abandoned by your champions of what socialism can do in America. Now could the city of Dallas have stepped in repeatedly to subsidize clubs like Trees, DaDa, etc? Sure, but why? Is it really a reasonable expectation that the city's tax rolls should perpetually bear the burden of funding a playground for a fringe element? Now I don't say fringe element as a derogatory term, only to say it was a miniscule population when compared to the greater population of Dallas...thought I'd save you the trouble of limiting your rebuttal to a single meaningless term in my post as you did the last time. <_< More importantly, though, and I can't believe that in your 5 page long crusade for credibility on this topic you haven't realized this yet FRY STREET AND DEEP ELLUM WERE NEITHER DEMOGRAPHICALLY NOR FINANCIALLY SIMILIAR. Even if your argument weren't flawed your comparison is apples to oranges.

Lest we get off on the wrong foot here realize that I don't dislike you or even know you for that matter. But I will, in all cases, take you to task when you have the unfettered gall to lump me in with the lesser of my compatriots.

Edited July 25, 2007 by emmitt01

greenminer · July 25, 2007

Now to get back on topic......
So the red building in the middle of the area is Cool Beans? Is that staying?

for sure staying...remodeled? I don't know.

runt96 · July 25, 2007

You have the sheer audacity to lump me in with criminals, not just rogue cops but criminals, all the while throwing out straw man arguments left and right to defend your stances that have come under perfectly logical and cogent attacks? That I'm replying at all shows that my temper and pride have gotten the better of my judgement because you are on face ridiculous and unworthy of a retort. But, as I'm in a foul mood after working a 70 week this week to take real drugs and thugs off the streets (Every hear of the Aryan Brotherhood?) I find myself replying to someone who hasn't the common decency or sense to differentiate difference of opinion from personal attacks.
You bring up Deep Ellum as if it is the paragon of what a downtown area should be like. I actually patrol your utopia and let me tell you it aint as pretty as you'd like to make it out to be. The "artists" who inhabited it for your 20 year golden age simply did not have the capital (ooh, there's a dirty word) to sustain their bars and clubs while catering to local artists and charging "reasonable" cover at the door. Clubs that catered to a younger, more rambunctious, and sadly more criminal element could pack em in Mon-Sun so they thrived in the buildings abandoned by your champions of what socialism can do in America. Now could the city of Dallas have stepped in repeatedly to subsidize clubs like Trees, DaDa, etc? Sure, but why? Is it really a reasonable expectation that the city's tax rolls should perpetually bear the burden of funding a playground for a fringe element? Now I don't say fringe element as a derogatory term, only to say it was a miniscule population when compared to the greater population of Dallas...thought I'd save you the trouble of limiting your rebuttal to a single meaningless term in my post as you did the last time. More importantly, though, and I can't believe that in your 5 page long crusade for credibility on this topic you haven't realized this yet FRY STREET AND DEEP ELLUM WERE NEITHER DEMOGRAPHICALLY NOR FINANCIALLY SIMILIAR. Even if your argument weren't flawed your comparison is apples to oranges.
Lest we get off on the wrong foot here realize that I don't dislike you or even know you for that matter. But I will, in all cases, take you to task when you have the unfettered gall to lump me in with the lesser of my compatriots.

Emmitt, our hats are off to you and you're brothers. It is WRONG to compare hard working public servants to the evil few.

NT91 · July 25, 2007

Yep. That's Cool Beans. Kinda funny, seeing it as the sole survivor of that pad like that...
so, what all went down? I've been off campus 5+ years now, but methinks Mr. Chopsticks, TJ's (Texas Jive), Tomato, and... something else??
Whoa. Just realized I joined this board 5 years ago today. that's wild.

The old barber shop and C.D. store.

Censored by Laurie · July 25, 2007

Keep going this is fun!

You got it...this should keep me occupied at work for a few minutes...its nice to come in and have something to do

Let's do away with the 8 hour work day, 5 day work week, overtime, paid vacations, child labor laws, and any other numerous things that socialistic thinking have brought to the country. These types of laws were all put in place because no matter how crappy the pay, hours worked, etc - there is always someone willing to take the job. Or make their child work.

Very well put...I dont promote a pure Socialist system...we've seen them in the world and they don't work...put unchecked Capitalism will lead to the exact same result. Without regulations on compitition you will eventually end up with a winner...and that winner will single-handedly control the market and be able to dictate pricing and will have the financial ability to prevent others from joining their market.

You've made it clear that you are ok with al-Qaeda and socialism. You are entitled to your fringe opinions, but you do realize that you're in a distinct minority don't you?

I'm not sure "saddistic" "counter-productive" and "hypocritical" are considered posittive endorcements...but I'll check with the dictionary in a moment. I am well aware I'm in the minority with my opinions and I'm perfectly comfortable with that.

Yes, we really do need to follow Dallas' lead. I agree Deep Ellum has become something special, but Dallas(politically) is fast approaching the Detroit of 6-10 years ago. Hopefully a new and competent mayor(whose greatest concern is not just potholes) will get Big D going in the right direction. Maybe we will, someday, have as impressive a skyline as Houston.

I think cities go through these types of cycles...Detroit was a slum for years but is really pulling itself together. Dallas has had some poor management, investing money in the wrong areas i.e. letting the Cowboys get away. People forget what Deep Ellum was 5-10 years ago. Nice restaurants, very successful clubs and a relativly safe atmosphere in which you would see families...atleast in the early evening. Trees, DaDa, Gypsy ect were THE live music venues in Dallas. Deep Ellum started going downhill when the city allowed 4am clubs like Uropa and it brought in a different crowd. There is a lot of history to the area.

Thank goodness the government stepped in and hindered the natural evolution of the free market. If they hadn't, the downtown CBT might have expanded, jobs might have been created, tax revenues might have increased, and they might have even cleaned up the Fair Park area making it attractive for a football and baseball stadium. But thanks to "socialism" Deep Ellum remains a low-rent run-down area for head shops, tatoo parlors, night clubs, and criminals. Hurray, socialism!

Well whose to say Fair Park would even be there? If 25-30 years ago Dallas had allowed the skyline to expand across Central imagine who much the free market coud've expanded. I think Big Tex would've been best suited inside a 70 story office building. Maybe keep one seat from the Farris Wheel in the lobby of a new bank tower...you know, for posterity purposes...remind people of what used to be there. I live close to NYC...and i promise you that there are plenty of business who would love to build their newest skyscraper right in the heart of Central Park...and I bet the free market would have little problem with that. Deep Ellum was a historically significant area that needed to be protected...and still does for that matter. If the free market were allowed to dictate land usage entirely we'd have nothing but factories, skylines and Planos...no parks, no museums, no unique and distinct areas.

Good statement, sir.
The buildings themselves were in pretty shoddy shape, but I think the businesses themselves got the ugly end of the deal. We'll just hope they'll find new homes around town. Now, the older buildings would've been nice if they got restored, but they were in that bad condition if I remember right. Unfortunately, it looked like the new developers didn't have the old businesses in mind to that end.
Now for socialism- it, like many things in this world, is fine and useful to an extent. Public transportation, limited workdays, etc, have some place here. But total control of someone's earnings, total media control by the government, and the like don't have a place here. And yeah, the Muslims do have a reasonable goal if they stick to what's supposed to be there- which is a Muslim state in the Middle East. Unfortunately, that's perverted by assorted radicals and twisted to become a total destruction of the Western world...which isn't part of what the teachings were. It's sad stuff that religious fervor becomes hate.
You could argue that Christianity's goal is to overtake the other world religions and that's got its share of radicals as well. Depending on which sect of Christianity you dig up, the only difference between them and radical Muslims is a bomb strapped to someone's chest. I've seen some "Christians" (in quotes because I don't think Jesus or God would really approve of their methods or statements) wage serious hate against homosexuals and anyone else that doesn't side with them. It's pretty sad, too.

About as well put as I've seen.

There's more profound differences than bombs to the chest. We do not stone folks. We're tolerent of others. I'm not referring to the nut cases as "we". The people who harm others with their "jihad" need to be excommunicated, whether they are christian, muslim, or whatever. There seems to be a growing animosity towards religious folks in this country that goes beyond the lack of tolerence some religious folk are accused of. Socialism Is the easiest way to void a person of faith, simply referring to anything good the government does as a "socialism working" is wrong. Socialism in any form is EVIL.
I'll now get off of the soap box, i've vented.

I think to say we're tolerent of others is to completely ignore history. People have been burned at the stake, drowned, hanged, tortured, exiled all for their religious beliefs. The church is responsible for some gross misdeeds in its 2000 years of existance. I'm not sure how we classify Northern Ireland's struggle as political or religious, but the tensions are certainly rooted in religion. I believe America is largly responsible for these acts becoming intolerable by recognizing the need to seperate religion from government and allowing free practice...thats a relativly modern line of thinking. I feel that the animosity you believe is being directed towards religious folk in this country is because you're mouthpieces can be very abraisive...Pat Robertson, Will Donahue ect don't exactly preach for tolerance and inclusion. Socialism...when Russia implimented Socialism they did so almost by the letter of Marx's philosophy...I guess ignoring the part where he didn't believe it would ever be functional...and because of that Socialism is associated with all of Marx's ideas (religion is the opiate of the masses)...the Socialism in America to which I've been refering are the economic influences that prevent the market from completely dictating our choices.

for sure staying...remodeled? I don't know.

I believe the red part of Cool Beans will be staying but the extension into the concrete building (dart room) they will be losing but I'm not certain.

H-towngreen · July 25, 2007

I live here in Houston and haven't been up north in a while, could someone remind me why JJ and the boys are moving to Arlington and not Fair Park.

I lived in Cleveland when it started breaking out of the old, dark, oh my god the rivers on fire days. And it was all started because of the building of Jacobs Field(Indians), Gund Arena(Cavs), and the new Browns Stadium, and throw in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. It as simple as that. And Cleveland is not the only example.

KingDL1 · July 25, 2007

One picture is worth a ............................

Wow

Smitty · July 25, 2007

I live here in Houston and haven't been up north in a while, could someone remind me why JJ and the boys are moving to Arlington and not Fair Park.

Because Arlington ponied up $325 million and Dallas did not.

Edited July 25, 2007 by Smitty

greenminer · July 25, 2007

I think we should throw Church of Satan into the mix. Wouldn't the majority agree they have some f'd up beliefs? Yet no one has a problem with them because they aren't killing on a ridiculous level in the name of politics and religion like Al-Queda. Maybe I'm wrong. Violence within the former only occurs on an "eye for an eye" philosphy, whereas A-Q just genuinly hate and murder anything having to do with Western civilization. What am I arguing? I've lost myself. ANd probably some of you. my bad. Here's some humor

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