Another Shot At Nt Law School Funding?

[Mean Green 93-98]

I am under the impression that if they followed their book that it does call them to destroy any who do not follow the muslim way. does it not?

"Slay the infidels wherever ye find them" (Surah 9:5). Of course, Muslims defend this passage by saying they only apply it to other Muslims who have apostatized, or to conquered peoples who refuse to pay tribute. Thus, the famous cry of the followers of Mohammed, "Islam, tribute, or the sword."

[UNTflyer]

I am under the impression that if they followed their book that it does call them to destroy any who do not follow the muslim way. does it not?

I'm surprised that some people find al-Qaeda's goals of establishing a worldwide dictatorial theocracy as "reasonable".

[jimmyjames_99]

...Al Queda is a political organization whose membership happen to be Muslim...

Just like Hamas is a political organization whose membership happen to be Muslim? Or Hezbollah? These three are some of the current organizations that kill woman and children, on what seems to be a routine daily basis, as acts of "political defiance". Seems if anyone should be classified as intolerant, it would be them.

...They're goal is to end Western occupation and establish a strong, unified Muslim state as is outlined in the Koran...

Western occupation of what? Iraq? What was it before then, the occupation of Israel? The Middle East? Eastern Hemisphere? Earth?

I declare this thread now completely derailed!!!

[Censored by Laurie]

Western occupation?!? Of what? Their goal is to establish a strong, unified Muslim state that occupies the entirety of the globe (i.e., worldwide dominion and subjugation), including that comfy little chair you're sitting on right now. Do you call those reasonable goals?

Western occupation of the Middle East...Muslims tried the global expansionist agenda in the 10th and 11th centuries and found, like so many, it doesn't work. There is no interst of any Muslim to convert the entire world to Islam.

I am under the impression that if they followed their book that it does call them to destroy any who do not follow the muslim way. does it not?

"Fight and slay the pagens wherever you find them" Surah9:5 Verses 1-4 of Surah 9 refer to the Pagens as with whom Muslims had made treaties and alliances with, and then had those alliances defied and broken by the Pagens...essentially it was a declaration of war. The following verse: "If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge." Surah 9:6

this is the most common passage from the Koran that has been taken out of context...there are a few others if this wasn't the quote you were refering to.

Just... damn.

Are their goals of killing all infidels and destroying Israel "reasonable" as well?

see above for you infidels response. As for Israel...how exactly was that nation formed? I'll just cut and paste a part of a message I sent to Plumm a few weeks ago when we got off on a similar topic: A good starting point to fully understand this conflict is the formation of the state of Israel in 1948. 1200 years of religious conflict were brought to a head when a Jewish community was carved into an all Muslim region with very little attempt at diplomacy...lands of spititual importance were simply taken from Islamic states...Palestinians have been without a country since '49...any sort of Arab/Israeli conflict America blindly sides with Israel...we look at the car bombs exploding in Israel as acts of terrorism, yet completly ignore the missles and rockets flying ito Lebanesse schools or Syrian Mosques.

I feel my overall point is that your ire shouldn't be directed at Islam. The conflicts and wars we are currently mirred in are the result of years of political mismanagement and diplomatic ignorance on both sides of the issue. Paint me in whatever light you feel fit...I am not anti-American for my sentiment, nor am I pro Al-Queda...and I don't believe that attempting to understand the motives for why certain groups act in the ways they do make me as such. I am pro peace and anti war as I feel and hope most of you are.

[UNTflyer]

I feel my overall point is that your ire shouldn't be directed at Islam. The conflicts and wars we are currently mirred in are the result of years of political mismanagement and diplomatic ignorance on both sides of the issue. Paint me in whatever light you feel fit...I am not anti-American for my sentiment, nor am I pro Al-Queda...and I don't believe that attempting to understand the motives for why certain groups act in the ways they do make me as such. I am pro peace and anti war as I feel and hope most of you are.

I really don't care what the motives of al-Qaeda and similar terrorist organizations are, as long as at the end of the day they are all dead and buried in pigskin.

Harsh? Yup. But when you are talking about a bunch of religious zealots who are stuck in the 11th century and if given a chance would use a nuclear bomb on an American city simply becausewe don't pray towards Mecca eight times a day...

Of course we all want peace, but peace is never achieved by attempting to "understand the motives" of murderers. Peace is achieved by utterly destroying your enemy.

There is no interst of any Muslim to convert the entire world to Islam.

Whatever. Sticking your head in the sand presents a tempting target to have kicked.

Edited July 20, 2007 by UNTflyer

[jimmyjames_99]

I feel my overall point is that your ire shouldn't be directed at Islam.

I think most of the ire is directed at the thought that killing of innocents as an acceptable act of "political definance," not the Islamic faith. Another lack of understanding the subtle difference between intolerance and disagreement.

any sort of Arab/Israeli conflict America blindly sides with Israel... we look at the car bombs exploding in Israel as acts of terrorism, yet completly ignore the missles and rockets flying ito Lebanesse schools or Syrian Mosques.

They are not ignored. Car bombs detonated in markets and on city streets with the intent of killing innocent women and children and causing chaos is a little different than a tactical strike of a building terrorists have choosen as a base of operations, Mosque or not.

Paint me in whatever light you feel fit...I am not anti-American for my sentiment, nor am I pro Al-Queda...and I don't believe that attempting to understand the motives for why certain groups act in the ways they do make me as such. I am pro peace and anti war as I feel and hope most of you are.

Political discourse gets nasty... That's half the fun!!!

Edited July 20, 2007 by jimmyjames_99

[Censored by Laurie]

[UNTflyer]

The only way to peace is to understand your enemy...your solution is known as genocide.

Really? Then how in hell did we defeat Germany and Japan?

[Mean Green 93-98]

Western occupation of the Middle East...Muslims tried the global expansionist agenda in the 10th and 11th centuries and found, like so many, it doesn't work. There is no interst of any Muslim to convert the entire world to Islam.

Anyone who truly believes his religion would like to see as many converted as possible. While Christ told and exemplified to His followers to do this by means of preaching, Mohammed advocated and exemplified the use of violence for this purpose and for the general advancement of their own people. This was not only for two centuries, but from Islam's inception in the 7th century, when Mohammed robbed and killed innocent travelers, and invaded Mecca in 630. See Flyer's picture for an answer worth 1000 words.

this is the most common passage from the Koran that has been taken out of context...there are a few others if this wasn't the quote you were refering to.

So refuge is offered to someone willing to submit to Islam? I think we all acknowledge that.

a Jewish community was carved into an all Muslim region

This is not true. A Jewish community was carved into what had become mostly an Arabic region. But over half of those Arabs professed Christianity at the time. Some estimates are far greater (cbn.com). And Israel certainly mistreated those professing Christianity. But what interest should Iran have in any of that? They are not Arabic, but find the state of Israel as convenient fuel for the fire.

we look at the car bombs exploding in Israel as acts of terrorism, yet completly ignore the missles and rockets flying ito Lebanesse schools or Syrian Mosques.

I have my problems with Israel, but their responses are provoked.

The conflicts and wars we are currently mirred in are the result of years of political mismanagement and diplomatic ignorance on both sides of the issue.

No, the conflicts we are in are the result of an idealogy that demands global denomination and death to dissenters. Our lack of success in our conflicts and wars can certainly be traced to ignorance. And we continue to have people in high places believing that this problem can be solved with dialogue. I desire peace as much as anyone, but the Muslims do not desire peace if their goals are not met.

and I don't believe that attempting to understand the motives for why certain groups act in the ways they do make me as such.

Then I hope you will understand that Muslims (or at least what some call "Islamicists") are not motivated by mere recent developments. They follow their beliefs, and those beliefs demand violence.

Edited July 20, 2007 by Mean Green 93-98

[Quoner]

You just hate intelligent, reasoned, even debate sir.

I would never sidetrack the masses to amuse myself. If we are ever going to solve the problems of US/Muslim relations it will be done on the same page where people gather to determine the usefulness of helmet stickers.

So join us, mostly white people, one confirmed Indian guy, a couple of black guys - including a cop, and that one old dude who is part Indian. Help us solve the worlds problems where they were meant to be solved.

[Censored by Laurie]

Anyone who truly believes his religion would like to see as many converted as possible. While Christ told and exemplified to His followers to do this by means of preaching, Mohammed advocated and exemplified the use of violence for this purpose and for the general advancement of their own people. This was not only for two centuries, but from Islam's inception in the 7th century, when Mohammed robbed and killed innocent travelers, and invaded Mecca in 630. See Flyer's picture for an answer worth 1000 words.

So refuge is offered to someone willing to submit to Islam? I think we all acknowledge that.

This is not true. A Jewish community was carved into what had become mostly an Arabic region. But over half of those Arabs professed Christianity at the time. Some estimates are far greater (cbn.com). And Israel certainly mistreated those professing Christianity. But what interest should Iran have in any of that? They are not Arabic, but find the state of Israel as convenient fuel for the fire.

I have my problems with Israel, but their responses are provoked.

No, the conflicts we are in are the result of an idealogy that demands global denomination and death to dissenters. Our lack of success in our conflicts and wars can certainly be traced to ignorance. And we continue to have people in high places believing that this problem can be solved with dialogue. I desire peace as much as anyone, but the Muslims do not desire peace if their goals are not met.

Then I hope you will understand that Muslims (or at least what some call "Islamicists") are not motivated by mere recent developments. They follow their beliefs, and those beliefs demand violence.

I feel its the Caliphate to which you refer to the idea of global denomination. The Caliphate is a unified, political Islamic state, the last one being the Ottoman Empire which came to an end in the early 20th century and has remained abolished by Muslim leader ship since 1924. Many traditionalist Muslim organizations have sought to re-institute the Caliphate with a leader known as a Caliphe who has governing and economic say so over all Muslim lands under the Caliphate. It is not an agressive colonialism of Islam.

If this is not to what you're refering, please find me Koranic passages which abdicate unprovoked violence and global denomination...full passages, not single verses such as Surah 9:5 which have been repeatedly mis-used.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

--The is the worst high-jacking I have ever seen.. from Law School to Al-Qaeda and more. Discussing Perry and Law School related because the legislature and governor creates and funds it.

---If you think Perry voted that bill because it did not provide enough for teachers or education you are in a dream world. He had the power to keep calling special sessions to get what he wanted for education [ just as he did on the redistricting .... that too which had never been done before by any state in a year not following a census count ] He did nothing. He finally called a special session 14 months later after the state operated a year without a budget and was forced to comply somewhat to previous budget which greatly underfund about everything, public school, colleges, parks, etc. This had never been done before by any previous governor or legislature.

--And where is that $2000 property AVERAGE tax cut he promised in a TV ad. That was absolutely impossible since many people do not even pay that much. It may have sort of happened if you consider the millions of dollars in tax relief that the Roos-Perot types got --because they own apartments, malls, high-rises, commercial buildings, etc. This is like me saying, if Bill Gates walks into my classroom, that the average person in there is now worth over a BILLION..... It is true statement but very misleading. The average guy did not get much if any cut... certain groups likely collected very well. Tough Grandma and Chris Bell was telling the truth, he wasn't but he got elected.

Edited July 20, 2007 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[Quoner]

--The is the worst high-jacking I have ever seen..

I hope you meant second worst.

But yes, Perry sucks.

[Dodge2007]

That is awesome Quoner........now to be your apart of your Sig. is AWESOME. I am now in the record books. I can now officially retire. Well, I still have to make Emmitt believe that I am a freaking coach.........that will take some doing !!!!!

[UNTflyer]

---If you think Perry voted that bill because it did not provide enough for teachers or education you are in a dream world.

We can only go by what he said his reasons were. If you have some great insight into his mind that the rest of the world is not privy to, please share!

He had the power to keep calling special sessions to get what he wanted for education. He did nothing.

Well, nothing except call for three special sessions until he got what he wanted.

He finally called a special session 14 months later after the state operated a year without a budget and was forced to comply somewhat to previous budget which greatly underfund about everything, public school, colleges, parks, etc. This had never been done before by any previous governor or legislature.

Dear God, what's going to happen if parks are "underfunded"?! How will the colleges operate if they are "underfunded"?? Oh wait... they did!

Is that like when liberals call for a 20% increase in funding but Republicans pass a bill that only increases it by 12% and it's labeled a "budget cut" that will starve children and kill old people?

--And where is that $2000 property AVERAGE tax cut he promised in a TV ad.

You certainly are one tough grandma! We actually agree on this point.

[Eagle1855]

I hope you meant second worst.

wow... I mean that's a solid, under-the-radar (can I say that?) play... but 'wow' neverthenonetheless.

this thread is giving me super tired-head. And not the good kind like when I get home from a hard day's work and my lady friend is there to make it better...

Edited July 20, 2007 by Eagle1855

[UNTLifer]

Western occupation of the Middle East...

Please explain Darfur.

Their goals are reasonable...they're means in achieving those goals are saddistic, counter-productive and hypocritical to their religious views.

That's just plain ignorant. Sorry, but their goals and mean of achieving them are a reflection of their religious views.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

FLYER-!!!

College... Their answer... they had to raise tuition to make up the short-fall.

Parks --they bought one truck for the ENTIRE park system in the next two years plus cut staff.

Public schools --Local boards had to raise evaluations or tax rates or both. ..ie. more local taxes. I have no personal insight of Perry but common sense tell you he would made an attempt to get something done.. as it was.. teachers recieved less than they would have under the budget he vetoed. THINK. He caused them to be paid less....not because he wanted them paid more as you claim was the reason for the veto.

They were poorly funded... as I said.. and as I hope you read...if you read what was happening. Good grief... think about what you hear..

Those three session mentioned were called immediately for redistricting and two years earlier. The education ones were not called until fourteen months after the 2005-regular session ended and then after they were over he announced great tax cuts (yeah right) and before the fall election and --they did little to actually help education. They seemed to be called more to help his re-election efforts.

Some people's motto should be: Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up..based on what I want to believe"...... of course the Pope during the middle ages declared the world was flat because he wanted it to be..after all what else could the four corners of the earth mean ( in a Bible passage ).

Edited July 20, 2007 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[Quoner]

I just wanted to make the day I hit 900 posts special. I want to give every troll a chance to see that if they work hard, have some passion for a school and embrace the majesty of off-color commentary, they too can enjoy the same success I have.

I close with this:

http://asdfhj.com/wp-content/hockeyjesus7bq4po9gj.jpg

[Stan R]

I just wanted to make the day I hit 900 posts special. I want to give every troll a chance to see that if they work hard, have some passion for a school and embrace the majesty of off-color commentary, they too can enjoy the same success I have.

I close with this:

Let us celebrate this glorious day with sweets for the children and AK-47s fired into the air!

[EagleD]

Quoner,

You should start a church...or write a novel. Either way get paid for this insight.

It's all about money and power, people. Man, I wish I had some.

GO MEAN GREEN

[UNTflyer]

And Dr. B just announced that UNT's latest tuition increase will be rolled back because they received MORE funding from the state than expected. Partly due to the fact that Perry holding back tax rate increases has helped generate more revenue and a budget surplus. It's a magical phenomenon called the Laffer Curve, and it has worked every time.

Today we have a similar debate over this. Anyone know what this is? Class? Anyone? Anyone? Anyone seen this before? The Laffer Curve. Anyone know what this says? It says that at this point on the revenue curve, you will get exactly the same amount of revenue as at this point. This is very controversial. Does anyone know what Vice President Bush called this in 1980? Anyone? Something-d-o-o economics. "Voodoo" economics.

Edited July 20, 2007 by UNTflyer

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Note what you said... the expected (future) increase was rolled back.... not all those that took place after 2003 and 2005.

[JayDub]

You just hate intelligent, reasoned, even debate sir.

I would never sidetrack the masses to amuse myself. If we are ever going to solve the problems of US/Muslim relations it will be done on the same page where people gather to determine the usefulness of helmet stickers.

Post of the year...

So join us, mostly white people, one confirmed Indian guy, a couple of black guys - including a cop, and that one old dude who is part Indian. Help us solve the worlds problems where they were meant to be solved.

This can only be summed up with....

YMCA!

or

THE ARISTOCRATS!

Edited July 21, 2007 by JayDub

[UNTflyer]

Note what you said... the expected (future) increase was rolled back.... not all those that took place after 2003 and 2005.

And...? Do you expect tuition to never increase? It's just the facts of life that prices go up.

UNT still offers an education at less than $7000/year. That's remarkable... but I guess for some it's just not good enough. I for one think tuition rates are too low. Perhaps if they were able to pay higher salaries they could get professors who speak English.