Stakes Just Went Up/vizza

flyeater · July 2, 2007

Vizza would never admit it, but best guess is he's fuming right now that his gleaming future at UNT just got brown toilet water thrown all over it.

He was in a no-lose situation. He could play his way into starting this year (sooner or later) or redshirt if things went well with Meager (who the hell really knows w/r to the latter).

Now, Vizza and TDodge both get to play a little game of poker, and Vizza could take his chips and say so long (sooner or later).

So, is the onus TDodge to start Vizza ASAP? Looks that way.

2008: Vizza starts/Riley redshirts

2009: Vizza looks over shoulder at Riley through off-season, spring ball, second off-season and fall camp. If Riley's not starter, he will be by season's end.

2010: With two years remaining eligibility, Vizza sez F this and UNT is out one (presumably) damn good backup QB.

You really think Riley sits for 3 YEARS to get his chance at running an offense he can diagram in his sleep? No wonder he admits his dad was uncomfortable with this entire deal.

I guess it's great we get him, but I predict it'll come at the cost of a guy who seemed worth a s---load of future hope.

Course, if Vizza turns out to have "meager" skills, the above is a moot rant.

untcampbell · July 2, 2007

The best QB will start...period.

Censored by Laurie · July 2, 2007

Anybody who is seeing this signing as a problem is out of their heads. This is such a luxury to have two high prospects at the most important position on the field. If Vizza proves to be the better QB Todd Dodge doesn't strike me as the type of coach to play his son over the better player...and if that means Riley eventually transfers to find more playing time elsewhere then so be it...works the other way around as well. When Vince Young left UT the Horns had two options at QB...redshirt freshman Colt McCoy and the number 1 incoming freshman QB in the state Jevon Sneed. McCoy beat out Sneed and Sneed left to get PT elsewhere.

Trying to find a negative in this situation is insane. Everybody just needs to enjoy whats happening this summer...it actually feels as though we're a legit football program that kids want to play for...and these next couple of years should be great. Players leave programs...Dodge will anticipate this and know where to reload.

MeanGreen61 · July 2, 2007

Some people need to step back, chill, take a pill and let the natural order of things play out instead of continually playing the speculation game. Vizza will or will not have success based on his ability to run TDs system.......PERIOD !

Smitty · July 2, 2007

Anybody who is seeing this signing as a problem is out of their heads. This is such a luxury to have two high prospects at the most important position on the field. If Vizza proves to be the better QB Todd Dodge doesn't strike me as the type of coach to play his son over the better player...and if that means Riley eventually transfers to find more playing time elsewhere then so be it...works the other way around as well. When Vince Young left UT the Horns had two options at QB...redshirt freshman Colt McCoy and the number 1 incoming freshman QB in the state Jevon Sneed. McCoy beat out Sneed and Sneed left to get PT elsewhere.
Trying to find a negative in this situation is insane. Everybody just needs to enjoy whats happening this summer...it actually feels as though we're a legit football program that kids want to play for...and these next couple of years should be great. Players leave programs...Dodge will anticipate this and know where to reload.

COMPLETE AGREEMENT. Good post.

Got5onIt · July 2, 2007

Vizza or Riley could've won 4 straight state titles each and thrown for 20k yards a piece and that still wouldn't mean squat when translated to the D1 level. Potential means nothing off the field. It makes us and coaches feel good about their ability since we nothing else to base it on. The best person will play at each position, including QB.

Eagle1855 · July 2, 2007

Way to jump the gun...

First of all, who says Riley is the better QB? Why is it a forgone conclusion he will be our QB as soon as he sets foot on the turf? He could RS his first year, giving Vizza the chance to play his way into the role of the starter for at least 2 years before Riley is even eligible. If at that point Riley is ready and is the better option, so be it.

Everyone needs to get off Riley's jock. Im really glad he's coming here. I think it's a good thing for UNT and I think it will inspire other higher-rated recruits to follow suit. I think he's a great competitor, and he knows this offense. In my opinion, he would have never played QB at UT and he would have had a hell of a time getting the starter nod for any other position there. So for me, this is as much of a good thing for he as it is for us.

Art Briles' son followed him to UH. He was an all-state QB in HS that ended up a role-playing WR in their offense once it became apparent Kolb was the better guy- and it worked out pretty well. Who knows what could happen.

As CBL stated, this is a GOOD problem to have. Most larger programs have this problem to some degree every year.

Edited July 2, 2007 by Eagle1855

Mean Green 93-98 · July 2, 2007

Competitors are not afraid of competition. It just gets their juices flowing. Bringing Riley aboard may just bring out the best in Vizza.

July 2, 2007

For all of you that say chill out, the best quarterback will be on the field and let things take care of themselves; I'd say you are correct.

For those of you that like to speculate, let's look at it.

If Vizza is as advertised, an extremely accurate passer who can run Dodge's spread to his satisfaction, moves the chains and puts points on the board, he will probably start the next four years. If he has only moderate success, then he will lose his starting job and will either be content as the backup or will transfer. He will have fairly had his chance. It is up to him.

In Riley's case, his worst case scenario is that he gets to play quarterback in college Division 1-A, including the last two years as the starter. Compare that to Texas, where he would have gotten NO pt at quarterback and little assurance that he evens sees the field. I see Riley as a quarterback. Right now, I'd say that he's the best high school quarterback in Texas and statistics will bear that out. To never get the chance to play his best position would be a travesty. He has the misfortune of being born a couple of years too late. I think that he is a better quarterback than Colt McCoy, and given even footing, would have beaten both McCoy and Sneed for the quarterback slot at UT. It just makes it doubly hard to come in and unseat a successful quarterback.

As Deep says, "In Todd We Trust". I trust him to put the best quarterback on the field, period. He could have started Riley as a soph at Southlake but he didn't. He will do what's best for the Mean Green. I have no doubt.

KRAM1 · July 2, 2007

What a great situation to be in, and WOW have things changed at UNT!!!! What a great way to be coming into the season...lots of good PR and even some positive buzz regarding ticket sales. It has been a great off-season so far.

Leaders Lead...and Competitors Compete....the best man will play at the QB spot....if anyone is worried about their "job" at this point, they are in the wrong game! Everthing about this is GOOD NEWS!

GO MEAN GREEN....BUY SEASON TICKETS...JOIN THE EXES!

MeanGreen61 · July 2, 2007

For all of you that say chill out, the best quarterback will be on the field and let things take care of themselves; I'd say you are correct.
For those of you that like to speculate, let's look at it.
If Vizza is as advertised, an extremely accurate passer who can run Dodge's spread to his satisfaction, moves the chains and puts points on the board, he will probably start the next four years. If he has only moderate success, then he will lose his starting job and will either be content as the backup or will transfer. He will have fairly had his chance. It is up to him.
In Riley's case, his worst case scenario is that he gets to play quarterback in college Division 1-A, including the last two years as the starter. Compare that to Texas, where he would have gotten NO pt at quarterback and little assurance that he evens sees the field. I see Riley as a quarterback. Right now, I'd say that he's the best high school quarterback in Texas and statistics will bear that out. To never get the chance to play his best position would be a travesty. He has the misfortune of being born a couple of years too late. I think that he is a better quarterback than Colt McCoy, and given even footing, would have beaten both McCoy and Sneed for the quarterback slot at UT. It just makes it doubly hard to come in and unseat a successful quarterback.
As Deep says, "In Todd We Trust". I trust him to put the best quarterback on the field, period. He could have started Riley as a soph at Southlake but he didn't. He will do what's best for the Mean Green. I have no doubt.

Excellent post !

UNTLifer · July 2, 2007

For all of you that say chill out, the best quarterback will be on the field and let things take care of themselves; I'd say you are correct.
For those of you that like to speculate, let's look at it.
If Vizza is as advertised, an extremely accurate passer who can run Dodge's spread to his satisfaction, moves the chains and puts points on the board, he will probably start the next four years. If he has only moderate success, then he will lose his starting job and will either be content as the backup or will transfer. He will have fairly had his chance. It is up to him.
In Riley's case, his worst case scenario is that he gets to play quarterback in college Division 1-A, including the last two years as the starter. Compare that to Texas, where he would have gotten NO pt at quarterback and little assurance that he evens sees the field. I see Riley as a quarterback. Right now, I'd say that he's the best high school quarterback in Texas and statistics will bear that out. To never get the chance to play his best position would be a travesty. He has the misfortune of being born a couple of years too late. I think that he is a better quarterback than Colt McCoy, and given even footing, would have beaten both McCoy and Sneed for the quarterback slot at UT. It just makes it doubly hard to come in and unseat a successful quarterback.
As Deep says, "In Todd We Trust". I trust him to put the best quarterback on the field, period. He could have started Riley as a soph at Southlake but he didn't. He will do what's best for the Mean Green. I have no doubt.

Yes, excellent post. I think Vizza will be as advertised and come in here and make us forget about our QB problems. This young man, based on reports, is an extremely hard worker, was efficient in his high school's spread offense and has the ideal size of a D1 QB. Plus, he will continue to grow and mature. If he is the competitor I hope he is, he will welcome the competition and Todge will be nothing but fair.

I also think that Riley will redshirt, because of Vizza's ability allowing him time to fill out a little more. Eighteen year old's are far from fully matured physically and he could stand to put on a few more pounds. I also think physically Vizza is more "ready" to play behind a suspect line and take some of the punishment that a D1 QB must be ready to absorb.

This is a great situation to be in.

gangrene · July 2, 2007

Vizza would never admit it, but best guess is he's fuming right now that his gleaming future at UNT just got brown toilet water thrown all over it.
He was in a no-lose situation. He could play his way into starting this year (sooner or later) or redshirt if things went well with Meager (who the hell really knows w/r to the latter).

Let's not forget that Vizza signed his LOI to attend UNT on February 7, 2007. At that time, just about EVERYONE expected Riley to follow his dad to North Texas. It wasn't until later that month (February 27, I think) that Riley committed to UT. So, Vizza very likely committed to North Texas with the expectation Riley would follow his dad the next year.

Mean Green 93-98 · July 2, 2007

Let's not forget that Vizza signed his LOI to attend UNT on February 7, 2007. At that time, just about EVERYONE expected Riley to follow his dad to North Texas. It wasn't until later that month (February 27, I think) that Riley committed to UT. So, Vizza very likely committed to North Texas with the expectation Riley would follow his dad the next year.

Excellent point.

Dodge2007 · July 2, 2007

The Vizza kid has some serious balls. He took the gamble knowing fully that Riley would come. Evidentially, he took the gamble instead of going to Rice or Nevada, and has the confidence to take on Riley. This kid does not back down. Alamo Heights dudes say this kid will run through a truck to lead his teamates on the field. They say he has a linebacker mentality, so bringing on Riley probably just fires up the Italian Stallion even more.

We will get the best player on the field. Riley and Giovanni are gamers, I am glad that I am not Todd and having to make a decision. My guess is Vizza plays in 2007 with this weak offensive line, new WR set, and if he can move the ball now, then watch out. It is a shame that we will not have an O-line with big time senior leadership giving Vizza a chance to make some plays from standing up rather on his back.

You noticed in spring ball that our offense only moved the ball when our defense played straight up and did not bring the heat. Our defense could have dominated all spring, that is a big concern for whoever the hell the QB is going to be.

Edited July 2, 2007 by Dodge2007

Eagle1855 · July 2, 2007

Alamo Heights dudes say this kid will run through a truck to lead his teamates on the field. They say he has a linebacker mentality, so bringing on Riley probably just fires up the Italian Stallion even more.

I've heard the same things said about him. He also isn't shy and projects a lot of confidence. One more reason I'm excited about this Fall!

flyeater · July 2, 2007

Let's not forget that Vizza signed his LOI to attend UNT on February 7, 2007. At that time, just about EVERYONE expected Riley to follow his dad to North Texas. It wasn't until later that month (February 27, I think) that Riley committed to UT. So, Vizza very likely committed to North Texas with the expectation Riley would follow his dad the next year.

That's revisionist history. Maybe folks on this board or elsewhere in Mean Green Land expected then that Riley would follow his dad here. Fact is there was no such indication at the time. He was visiting other schools, and TDodge was clear with the media that he and Riley had had their time together at Carroll. Riley was all set to do his own thing (before and after TDodge was hired) and he committed to Texas. His grandfather's condition and other recent discussions within the family changed everything.

Don't go painting Vizza as knowing in early February that this would happen all along, because neither he nor anyone else knew back then. Just like my original post, you're only speculating. Finding a negative in having both QBs never was my intention, but as usual, here came the grotesque overreactions/oversimplifications. I stated only what can happen in these situations. College football can be an ugly deal, talent notwithstanding.

Personally, I don't think kids should play for their daddies after high school if they can help it. But by all means, I honestly welcome Riley to UNT if that's what he really wants. Just hope it doesn't become complicated, because complications are distractions.

Please, blast away at me some more. Thanks you sir, may I have another.

gangrene · July 2, 2007

That's revisionist history. Maybe folks on this board or elsewhere in Mean Green Land expected then that Riley would follow his dad here. Fact is there was no such indication at the time. He was visiting other schools, and TDodge was clear with the media that he and Riley had had their time together at Carroll. Riley was all set to do his own thing (before and after TDodge was hired) and he committed to Texas. His grandfather's condition and other recent discussions within the family changed everything.
Don't go painting Vizza as knowing in early February that this would happen all along, because neither he nor anyone else knew back then. Just like my original post, you're only speculating. Finding a negative in having both QBs never was my intention, but as usual, here came the grotesque overreactions/oversimplifications. I stated only what can happen in these situations. College football can be an ugly deal, talent notwithstanding.
Personally, I don't think kids should play for their daddies after high school if they can help it. But by all means, I honestly welcome Riley to UNT if that's what he really wants. Just hope it doesn't become complicated, because complications are distractions.
Please, blast away at me some more. Thanks you sir, may I have another.

Well, sir, if you didn't expect Riley would follow his dad to UNT then I'd say you were definitely in the minority. Riley always had UNT in his list of consideration and I think it would be an insult to Vizza's intellegence to state that he was totally oblivious to the idea that Riley would go to UNT.

flyeater · July 2, 2007

Well, sir, if you didn't expect Riley would follow his dad to UNT then I'd say you were definitely in the minority. Riley always had UNT in his list of consideration and I think it would be an insult to Vizza's intellegence to state that he was totally oblivious to the idea that Riley would go to UNT.

Again, you're only going on what you believed to be true all along with no proof whatsoever. I'm going on what both Dodges actually said at the time and Riley's own actions. Read his comments about his decision to switch the commit. Your version and his don't line up.

I never described Vizza as oblivious to anything. Don't misinterpret what I wrote. I'm sure the thought crossed his mind, but this all developed well after the fact, say, nearly 5 months.

As for what I "expected" back in February, I didn't really know then, so maybe I was in the minority. Who knew UNT had so many Kreskins.

jimmyjames_99 · July 2, 2007

...if you didn't expect Riley would follow his dad to UNT then I'd say you were definitely in the minority. Riley always had UNT in his list of consideration...

When Dodge was first announced as HC, there was a lot of talk about possibly landing Riley. People who thought it was a surprise that UNT was on Riley's list of considerations would definitely have been in the minority. But thinking he would commit to us is taking it to an entirely different level. There seemed to be a majority who thought it would be good if he came here, but not that it was expected or even a high probability.

flyeater · July 2, 2007

When Dodge was first announced as HC, there was a lot of talk about possibly landing Riley. People who thought it was a surprise that UNT was on Riley's list of considerations would definitely have been in the minority. But thinking he would commit to us is taking it to an entirely different level. There seemed to be a majority who thought it would be good if he came here, but not that it was expected or even a high probability.

Thank you, voice in the desert.

GrandGreen · July 2, 2007

One question, Where to players go to insure they will get no competition? Vizza will get competition at NT as he would have at Wyoming. If you go along with UT logic then Riley is not a top tier QB, but a great athelete. IMO, this is due mostly to his height not ability. I think everyone is use to DD's program were the only QB's signed were when NT was the only school offering or the only school offering the player a schlorship as a QB. TD is going get QB talent and there is going to be competition just as it should be at any 1a program.

flyeater · July 2, 2007

One question, Where to players go to insure they will get no competition? Vizza will get competition at NT as he would have at Wyoming. If you go along with UT logic then Riley is not a top tier QB, but a great athelete. IMO, this is due mostly to his height not ability. I think everyone is use to DD's program were the only QB's signed were when NT was the only school offering or the only school offering the player a schlorship as a QB. TD is going get QB talent and there is going to be competition just as it should be at any 1a program.

Competition is competition, agreed. Big difference here is the possible scenario (yes, I'm saying it) where you have a conflict of interest that could work out or go south. Sure, if we win, who cares. But if it plays out badly or uncomfortably, who wins then?

Would never imply that TDodge is going to be anything less than ethical in dealing with all of this, but parental ties can cloud judgement, and he has to get it right.

MeanGreen61 · July 2, 2007

Would never imply that TDodge is going to be anything less than ethical in dealing with all of this, but parental ties can cloud judgement, and he has to get it right.

Excuse me, but you are impling with a statement like this and this thread that you started. TD is the coach and you either do or do not have confidence in his ability to make the decisions that are best for the team. The man didn't get where he is by having "clouded judgement" and remember Riley wasn't the starting QB at SLC until last season. And you can bet that TD knows there are people like you out there raising this question. -_-

Edited July 2, 2007 by MeanGreen61

GrandGreen · July 2, 2007

Competition is competition, agreed. Big difference here is the possible scenario (yes, I'm saying it) where you have a conflict of interest that could work out or go south. Sure, if we win, who cares. But if it plays out badly or uncomfortably, who wins then?
Would never imply that TDodge is going to be anything less than ethical in dealing with all of this, but parental ties can cloud judgement, and he has to get it right.

Of all the things to be concerned about. NT gets a high profile coach and what may be the best QB in the nation, and you worry about QB favoritism hurting the team. I am much more concerned about getting adequate defensive tackles and an offensive line. I doubt many think that TD is going to start his son at QB if he does not earn the position. The only hint of controversy I can see is akin to when a player complained to Al McGuire that he was as good as his son and complained about not starting. Al's reply "he is my son, you are going to have to be better than him to start".