Pc Police Get Another One

CorinthEagle · June 18, 2007

http://arkansasbusiness.com/article.aspx?l...81.55553.110607

Maybe we could come up with a few suggestions to help them with the new name

meangreendork · June 18, 2007

This is now, and has always been, BS. No one chooses a mascot name because they want to make fun of or embarrass those associated with it.

It's not like ASU or anyone else with Indians as the mascot, chose that mascot because they want their team force marched off their playing field and massacred. I'm sure it was chosen to draw some of that fighting spirit, independence, and hardiness Native Americans are known for.

Mean Green 93-98 · June 18, 2007

It is ridiculous. What about the Irish contingent? The agricultural contingent? Are they going to get up in arms because schools use them for a mascot? Seriously, the Irish would have a far greater case against Notre Dame than Indians against the University of Illinois, et al.

greenminer · June 18, 2007

I've always thought any kind of prejudice should be respected from both sides. If something is said and it's not meant to be racist but was taken that way, an apology or something should be said.

But I think these people are being too sensitive, as if they think they're speaking on behalf of the Native Americans. But if you go to any individual part/person that is NA, do they really feel insulted?

Edited June 18, 2007 by greenminer

UNTflyer · June 18, 2007

And how about the University of Oklahoma? Being called "Sooners" is the same as being called "Cheaters". I'd be offended!

:lol:

meangreendork · June 18, 2007

I've always thought any kind of prejudice should be respected from both sides. If something is said and it's not meant to be racist but was taken that way, an apology or something should be said.
But I think these people are being too sensitive, as if they think they're speaking on behalf of the Native Americans. But if you go to any individual part/person that is NA, do they really feel insulted?

Sometimes, I think the people pushing for this Indian name change stuff aren't Native American. Sometimes, I envision these folks as suburban, caucasian folks who don't know a single Native American, and aren't thinking in the interests of Native Americans, but thinking in the interest of the school or NCAA and trying not to get lawsuits or bad press.

UNTflyer · June 18, 2007

...if you go to any individual part/person that is NA, do they really feel insulted?

No. This move by the NCAA came about because a small group of Natives threatened a lawsuit.

KRAM1 · June 18, 2007

This is what it comes too when "every one gets a tropghy at the end of the season" mentality takes over our culture. Wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings now would we? So, just who gets to say what is and what is not "offensive"? I have NEVER been asked! How about you? You know "Sooners" is not a "kind" word...it was meant to indicate those who cheated and went ahead of the "official start" of the Oklahoma Land Rush. Maybe the folks with ancestors who followed the rules of the land rush in Oklahoma should sue OU to get them to change their nickname. What do you think??? GIVE ME A BREAK...GET OVER IT PEOPLE. And, oh, I forgot...only "some" people can be accused of "saying the wrong thing"...other folks seem to get a free pass. Gee! :angry:

0footballfan0 · June 18, 2007

I've always thought any kind of prejudice should be respected from both sides. If something is said and it's not meant to be racist but was taken that way, an apology or something should be said.
But I think these people are being too sensitive, as if they think they're speaking on behalf of the Native Americans. But if you go to any individual part/person that is NA, do they really feel insulted?

Since I am Native American I will answer your question. "No" I am not offended at all by the use "Indian" as a mascot. This entire PC crap has driven me nuts. I always thought of it as a complement to have the use of Indian or other similar names as a mascot. The only one that doesn't bother me, but I can understand would be "Savages". Other than that I am good.

Even if I were offended............As my father once told me "you don't have the right to not be offended".

There is a rumor that the Eagle is offended and that UNT will be changing there name to the Albino Squirrels;-)

God help us.

NCMeanGreen · June 18, 2007

Yeah...and pretty soon all representation of the great Native Americans will be wiped clean of our existence. Not to get political, but who does this REALLY benefit???

What's next, take away their rights to own and operate gambling facilities???

BTW, does the Carlisle Indian School still exist? We have been practicing forced integration for years, and removing these references is yet another means of assimilation. I have not read ANYWHERE that the "Patriots" mascot must be surrendered from all athletic teams. You...why not? American Indians are an important part of our history, they have provided much to our world and society. How do we thank them (don't answer!)..TAKE AWAY ALL REFERENCES TO THESE GREAT PEOPLE!!!

meangreendork · June 18, 2007

Keller HS is being forced to do the same thing. Sadly.

Boomer23 · June 18, 2007

I say they pick up on the Northern Colorado idea

Go Fightin Whities!

LongJim · June 18, 2007

My two cents on this is that I always thought of the Indian nicknames and symbolism to represent stuff like "fighting spirit", "warriors", that kind of thing. It never occurred to me that this could have been thought of as offensive. To a large degree I still feel that way--but hey, I'm a Caucasian male.

After trying to look at it from the "other side", (and reading a lot about the subject, as I am 1/8 Cherokee) I can begin to understand why it can be considered offensive, when you consider that a lot of the wardrobe, paint, and so forth depicted by the mascots was deeply religious in meaning to Native Americans. I still can't believe we have an NFL team called the "Redskins", but there you have it. By any measure, you can't say that's not offensive.

I don't know what the solution is, but there is merit (IMO) to respecting the wishes of those who don't want their heritage used like this. I'm not fanatical about it though, and as I admitted above, I always regarded it as a compliment.

GreenMachine · June 18, 2007

what about the Gamecocks?

LongJim · June 18, 2007

Pretty good FAQ on this subject re: Fighting Irish, Vikings, etc...

Is It Offensive?

Re: Notre Dame analogy, a pretty thought provoking answer was this one:

" How about this at a Notre Dame sporting event. Jesus, running around, leading cheers, cavorting with the cheerleaders, brandishing a huge cross with "Go Irish" written on it. Is that offensive? As a christian, I would say it was blasphemous and that it diminishes respect for Christianity. But, then again, maybe the native americans have more respect for their religious symbols than we do. "

0footballfan0 · June 18, 2007

Pretty good FAQ on this subject re: Fighting Irish, Vikings, etc...
Is It Offensive?
Re: Notre Dame analogy, a pretty thought provoking answer was this one:
" How about this at a Notre Dame sporting event. Jesus, running around, leading cheers, cavorting with the cheerleaders, brandishing a huge cross with "Go Irish" written on it. Is that offensive? As a christian, I would say it was blasphemous and that it diminishes respect for Christianity. But, then again, maybe the native americans have more respect for their religious symbols than we do. "

Since when is the "Indian" mascot (as with ASU) religious? maybe I missed something in my quick scanning of the post.

ArlingtonMeanGreen · June 18, 2007

I like "Mean Green Cavemen"

LongJim · June 18, 2007

Since when is the "Indian" mascot (as with ASU) religious? maybe I missed something in my quick scanning of the post.

When the mascot puts on a headdress, "war paint", "medicine wheel", or like items, or does a "war dance". Feathers, eagle feathers in particular, are very sacred. Those are all religious in nature to many Indian cultures.

Edited June 18, 2007 by LongJim

UNTLifer · June 18, 2007

You know "Sooners" is not a "kind" word...it was meant to indicate those who cheated and went ahead of the "official start" of the Oklahoma Land Rush.

Well, if the name fits....

UNTflyer · June 18, 2007

I like "Mean Green Cavemen"

Hehe... I don't think would work either.

Censored by Laurie · June 18, 2007

I think most Native Americans would rather be honored by having a place to live that isn't just where white folk would never choose to reside...but I guess the mascot of a mid-major football program will have to be sufficient.

Syracuse and St. Johns needed to change their names...that was the equivilant of some of the Negro League baseball team names...but I believe that the intent of ASU, FSU and Illinois ect is to honor the pride and culture of Native Americans. However, wheres the purpose in honoring a race of people with a mascot. We don't have any Black, Hispanic or White deravations as mascots (yes Notre Dame, but the Irish had a strong hand in the founding and it's catholic base) so is that saying we wouldn't respect the history and traditions behind the Tuskegee State Darkies, the Texas Valley Chicanos or the White Settlement W.A.S.P.s?

If Native Americans have a problem with these schools nicknames then there needs to be an open forum for discussion and appease both sides...and if that means a couple of mascots change that is truely the way to honor this sect of society

Edited June 18, 2007 by Censored by Laurie

LongJim · June 18, 2007

...but I believe that the intent of ASU, FSU and Illinois ect is to honor the pride and culture of Native Americans.

I totally agree. I don't think it was ever done maliciously at all. It's just that many people (myself included) have had no frame of reference or knowledge about the subject. The more I read about it and learn, the more I think: "Damn. Didn't seem offensive to me at the time. I had no freaking clue." I think a lot of people fall in this category.

KRAM1 · June 18, 2007

As one can see...of few of "us" have fallen prey to the "PC mind set".....and so it starts! Whatever floats your boat, but just remember to give everyone a trophy at the end of the season. No hurt feelings you know. Don't want anyone to grow up with a bad self image! And the sarcasm flows...........

LongJim · June 18, 2007

As one can see...of few of "us" have fallen prey to the "PC mind set".....and so it starts! Whatever floats your boat, but just remember to give everyone a trophy at the end of the season. No hurt feelings you know. Don't want anyone to grow up with a bad self image! And the sarcasm flows...........

I see your sarcasm, and raise you 20!

Nope--no trophies for participation in my league either. :lol:

UNTSIG · June 18, 2007

i can understand it. i am a registered native american (chickasaw) and do not take offense and I also think that people stretch it a little to far BUT can obviously see WHY it is offensive. Native Americans are an ethnicity as much as caucasians, african americans... the list goes on and on. however, do you think that any group would NOT be offended if you named your school mascot after their race and then paraded around a mascot that is a huge stereotype? everybody says that it is the "pc police" with native americans because it has been going on so long, it has just become accepted. calling Notre Dame "the fighting irish" and having a 4 leaf clover is completely different than the Washington Redskins (seriously) or the Atlanta Braves pretending to "chop" someones head off