How Have You Benefitted By Dropping The "state" From Unt

KAjunRaider · June 6, 2007

Here at MT, better known as MTSU here by the Vol-infested Nashville media, we have been contemplating a name change to UMT for quite some time.

There has been quite a resistance from local universities and ut-k, and from some of our fans that want to keep our 4-letter acronym.

When did you folks make the change and why? And how has this benefitted your University? And is there any documentation available on the net to give reasons for taking the word "state" out of your name.

Thanx in advance!

I want to report this info back to our message board.

MT's Scout Message Board

Edited June 6, 2007 by KAjunRaider

NT80 · June 6, 2007

The way I've heard it:

The change was made to UNT in 1988 from NTSU. At that time there was also a WTSU and ETSU, and we mainly wanted to be seen as different from them, and many thought a U of Something just sounded more classy. Originally, in the early 1960's NTSC proposed a name change to Texas State University, but U of Texas legislators fought against it and we settled for an upgrade to NTSU.

Since then, there has become a Texas State University system, of which NTSU is not a part of (TSU-San Marcos is, as well as SFA and a couple others). Anyway when a name change proposal came up again in mid-80's we couldn't be TSU since not a part of that system, so we settled for UNT. I graduated in 1980 from NTSU and enrollment was 17,000, now it's 34,000 and growing. Not sure if the name change helped, but it didn't hurt. I still think the "North" keeps the directional-school stigma alive and believe it regionalizes us to some; but they didn't ask me for a vote.

runt96 · June 6, 2007

Here at MT, better known as MTSU here by the Vol-infested Nashville media, we have been contemplating a name change to UMT for quite some time.
There has been quite a resistance from local universities and ut-k, and from some of our fans that want to keep our 4-letter acronym.
When did you folks make the change and why? And how has this benefitted your University? And is there any documentation available on the net to give reasons for taking the word "state" out of your name.
Thanx in advance!
I want to report this info back to our message board.
MT's Scout Message Board

We enjoy the dropping of "STATE" but some of the local (DALLAS)media still refers to us as North Texas State. Your Vols. will probably do the same. They think it diminishes us but head to head competition says it all. Of course, it's easier for us (v.SMU) than it will be for you guys(TENNESSEE). But, It IS worth it, "STATE" makes a school look sooo DIAA.

UNTFan23 · June 6, 2007

We enjoy the dropping of "STATE" but some of the local (DALLAS)media still refers to us as North Texas State. Your Vols. will probably do the same. They think it diminishes us but head to head competition says it all. Of course, it's easier for us (v.SMU) than it will be for you guys(TENNESSEE). But, It IS worth it, "STATE" makes a school look sooo DIAA.

I must respectfully disagree. There are many great programs out there with the "State" in the university name.

Ohio State University
Florida State University
Louisiana State University
NC State University
Michigan State University
Penn State University
Oregon State University

A couple other noteworthy schools ...

Oklahoma State University
Colorado State University
Mississippi State University
Boise State University

Edited June 6, 2007 by UNTFan23

GreenN'walinsVet · June 6, 2007

What needs to be noted is that

Its not the "STATE" that makes you look small, its the Direction plus State, or a name plus state that is not a STATE of the UNITED STATES

June 6, 2007

We enjoy the dropping of "STATE" but some of the local (DALLAS)media still refers to us as North Texas State. Your Vols. will probably do the same. They think it diminishes us but head to head competition says it all. Of course, it's easier for us (v.SMU) than it will be for you guys(TENNESSEE). But, It IS worth it, "STATE" makes a school look sooo DIAA.

The Vols, Tigers and 'dores won't ever let you forget it. They'll still use MTSU in a derogatory manner, so be prepared.

Some would say that Middle smacks of Division 1-AA. Central would be a little better but not much. And, yes, I'm familiar with the three states of Tennessee.

Why not consider naming it for a founder, early president, governor, or a Tennessee statesman? The first thing that I thouht of was Jackson University, especially since the Hermitage is so near. Of course, there is a Jackson State so that might be too confusing.

What I'd like to see is a good name to use with the state name for those universities that had roots as a college to train teaches. Normal or Teachers would not be appropriate because those universities don't exist any longer and their successors are very diversified. But something along the lines of 'Tech' to denote the roots. Maybe something as simple as 'Ed' to denote Education, which is now the descriptive department or school for teacher training. Or, possibly we could coin a new word to identify those universities.

If all else fails, the University of Middle Tennessee or Middle Tennessee University is still better than having the 'State' included.

NT03 · June 6, 2007

Ohio State , Penn State , Florida State , etc. etc It's not the "state" part of a school's name that is seen as a negative.

It's the fact that the more words you have in your school ala Middle Tennessee State University or North Texas State University the more you look like Bobby Boucher's South Central State Mudd Dogs.

In my mind , the less words someone has to remember the easier it is to recognize that University. This could lead to more students and possibly a higher merchandise sales. This is all speculation , but it's a benefit that a "shorter" name could have.

3XNTGRAD · June 6, 2007

The way I've heard it:
The change was made to UNT in 1988 from NTSU. At that time there was also a WTSU and ETSU, and we mainly wanted to be seen as different from them, and many thought a U of Something just sounded more classy. Originally, in the early 1960's NTSC proposed a name change to Texas State University, but U of Texas legislators fought against it and we settled for an upgrade to NTSU.
Since then, there has become a Texas State University system, of which NTSU is not a part of (TSU-San Marcos is, as well as SFA and a couple others). Anyway when a name change proposal came up again in mid-80's we couldn't be TSU since not a part of that system, so we settled for UNT. I graduated in 1980 from NTSU and enrollment was 17,000, now it's 34,000 and growing. Not sure if the name change helped, but it didn't hurt. I still think the "North" keeps the directional-school stigma alive and believe it regionalizes us to some; but they didn't ask me for a vote.

I've never heard the Texas State name mentioned other than a brief consideration of that alternative prior to the 1988 UNT change. The information I have always heard is that NTSU was a compromise name in the 1960's when we went from "college" to "university". The original name proposal was for the University of North Texas name (which is the one UT shot down), so the compromise was North Texas State University.

Despite the "regionality" of the name, I was one in the 1980's who felt we should keep "North Texas" in the name, rather than attempt the "Texas State" name option. Except for our founding name of "Texas Normal College and Teacher Training Institute", every one of our other names has had the "North Texas" in it. That is a tie among all our alumni that was and should be kept.

I don't know enough about MTSU history to know if that sort of connection exists in your name history or not, but it was there for us.

Also, on the ETSU, WTSU etc. issue, it was important to note that we were an institution of over 25,000 students in 1988 (already 4th largest in the state having passed Texas Tech), while the ETSU's of the world were much smaller, less comprehensive institutions. We really did need to distinguish ourselves from them, and the name change was one way of doing that.

NT80 · June 6, 2007

I've never heard the Texas State name mentioned other than a brief consideration of that alternative prior to the 1988 UNT change. The information I have always heard is that NTSU was a compromise name in the 1960's when we went from "college" to "university". The original name proposal was for the University of North Texas name (which is the one UT shot down), so the compromise was North Texas State University.

Upon further review (in "The Story of North Texas") you are correct; it was the concept of UNT that an Austin Senator said would "damage the University of Texas".

As for an MTSU name change, perhaps:

"University of Murfreesboro"? Maybe not.

"University of Co-Champs"?? :rolleyes:

Edited June 6, 2007 by NT80

PlummMeanGreen · June 6, 2007

Before our name change, the story I had heard years ago was that former NT President Dr. Alfred F. Hurley had been in conversation with UT bachelor degreed (& SMU Law School grad & large benefactor for SMU) Robert H. Dedman who was a major inspiration to Dr. Hurley when Dedman suggested to him that NTSU could gain more regional-type recognition & respect if we (in deed) dropped "State" and changed our name to the University of North Texas. Then it became former SMU football letterman during the Doak Walker era and (then) governor of Texas, Bill Clements, who would sign the bill that changed our name from NTSU to the University of North Texas.

As some of you will recall, Dr. Hurley was quite involved with our entire region thru the North Texas Council of Goverments (NTCOG) and was actually its president at one time. Hurley (in spite of his sometimes villainous description on this forum as a total "anti-athletic" president) was apparently still quite popular with many legislators down in Austin.

In fact, for a brief time in our history when many of us gathered for a (now) famous (to us) and hastily called meeting (by Bill Vogel) who when he called my office told me: "Jim, if you care for the future of football at UNT you need to join many others at this meeting and be heard" with this meeting being held at what is now our former football offices/present ticket office building; anyway, many of us feared we might lose varsity football at UNT back in the early 1980's, but some of us will always credit Hurley for ignoring the sentiment of many campus academians who wanted football gone at NT when he (instead) chose not to go down the "drop football at NT" path at all. Quite frankly, that is (still) how I choose to remember Al Hurley when it comes to our having Mean Green football today.

BTW, Blue Raiders, your fellow Tenneseean Fred Thompson will be "My Main Man" (so to speak) when he announces!

Edited June 6, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

rcade · June 6, 2007

I was attending UNT when the name changed, and it conveyed the size and scope of the university better than NTSU did. It was a welcome change, though I do wonder what it would've been like if we were allowed to be Texas State.

If I were at Middle Tennessee, I'd be pushing for the UMT designation. The combination of "Middle" and "State" in your name has to be marketing poison, both nationally and how it's perceived among the potential student base there in Tennessee. Although the direction "Middle" gets some mockery, it also gives you something unique in Division I-A (as Mean Green does for us).

SilverEagle · June 6, 2007

3x has the correct information. UNT was our first choice in 1960 when the bill for our name change was filed. After much discussion, and threats of filibusters, not to mention dismissive comments about our school in the official records, a compromise name was agreed upon......NTSU.

I'm guessing that our administration re-visited this issue back in 1988 when it was very clear that we were heading toward being a more "research" focused institution. And more than ever, we needed a name that reflected that status.

So, KajunRaider. Ya'll might want to check on the political atmosphere regarding a name change before you worry about "Vol alumni" continuing to call you MTSU.

GangGreen · June 6, 2007

No matter what you do, you'll always be MUTS to us. :lol:

letsgiveacheer · June 7, 2007

Last night, I stopped at the Chapel Hill Whole Foods to purchase some groceries on my way home from work. Outside the Whole Foods, there is a hawker who sells ant-Duke memorabilia such as photos of scoreboards showing UNC victories over Duke, etc.

Last night, as I passed by, he yelled, "Know any Duke fans? " I replied, "No, I don't care and I went to school at North Texas."

He said, "Go Longhorns!"

I said, "Not Texas...North Texas!"

He replied, "North Texas State....Go Mean Green!"

I almost bought one of his miserable scoreboards.