Middle Tennessee Should Make A Conference Switch

whatshisname · June 3, 2007

They can make all the concerted effort in the world and it won't get them anywhere until CUSA decides to make room for them. I don't see that happening, but I suppose anything is possible.

Oh, there you go greenminer-- pointing out the obvious. There's no room for that in this other fella's wishful thinkin'. You are such a party-pooper.

MeanGreen61 · June 3, 2007

You must not be keeping up. We've doubled our MBB and FB head-coaches salaries...we've done the same for their staff. Field-turf is installed and a jumbotron is on the way. Tech is hosting the 2008 WAC baseball tourny. FB is getting a new locker room and weight room. The basketball arena will receive a new floor, luxury boxes, new Men's locker room, new HOF...the list goes on and on.
So, basically, you're wrong.

WOW ! Gee, golly, gosh ! And all that UNT has done is build a new 45,000sq ft. state of the art athletic center with 2 practice fields, a new soccer facility, a new softball facility, a new tennis facility and a new volleyball facility. We've also installed new field turf at dear old Fouts and have the jumbotron along with monitors in the concourses. Bummer, sorry we haven't been able to keep up ! :blink:

johnnylightnin · June 3, 2007

WOW ! Gee, golly, gosh ! And all that UNT has done is build a new 45,000sq ft. state of the art athletic center with 2 practice fields, a new soccer facility, a new softball facility, a new tennis facility and a new volleyball facility. We've also installed new field turf at dear old Fouts and have the jumbotron along with monitors in the concourses. Bummer, sorry we haven't been able to keep up !

Unwad your panties 61...I said stebo hasn't been keeping up if he thinks tech has done nothing to improve its situation...that, is just plain dumb. Good for UNT (sadly for UNT, SMU/Rice/Houston are CUSA members who would have to vote them in).

johnnylightnin · June 3, 2007

Congrats on all your school's future new improvements. Just curious, but how much is all the above going to cost your alma mater?
And with the same candor and "to the point" that your fellow alum, ie, Dwayne of Minden would post such, what is the consensus among most of your alums with Tech's plans to remain in the WAC member? If no WAC membership in the future for Tech, what is your school's back-up plan?

It will cost a pretty penny, no doubt. Malone is kicking off the TAC improvements with the $350K he handed Reneau on Wednesday. Finally, we've started a capital fund-raising campaign. The improvements to the football stadium are being worked out through private donors and student fees. The money is there, the administration has just refused to go get it until now. I don't know what changed, but I'm glad that it did.

As far as WAC membership, Tech fans feel the WAC is a stronger conference than CUSA (at least in football and basketball). Tech fans see CUSA as a lateral move at best, but it would certainly be a better geographic fit. For every fan who wants CUSA, I'd say there's at least one (maybe .75) that would prefer to stay in the WAC. Why? Competition (think TCU and MWC). So, there's no need for a back-up plan as of yet. We've got the money and Dooley and Malone are doing amazing things to bring former athletes and coaches back into the fold. So, we're fine now, and our situation is only improving. If you talk to ULM or ULL fans, they'll paint a picture of desperation with regards to Ruston...it's simply not true.

We wait on CUSA. If they invite us, good. If not, we're very happy in the WAC. Now, if the MWC expands to twelve and takes the top 3 in the WAC (overall top 3 I mean...Freson/Nevada/Boise), we would be sitting smack dab in the middle of the sunbelt western edition. Under those circumstances and those circumstances only do I see Louisiana Tech requesting admission to the Sunbelt.

MeanGreen61 · June 3, 2007

Unwad your panties 61...I said stebo hasn't been keeping up if he thinks tech has done nothing to improve its situation...that, is just plain dumb. Good for UNT (sadly for UNT, SMU/Rice/Houston are CUSA members who would have to vote them in).

Panties wadded ? Get real slick Glad to see you're able to make a few improvements. :rolleyes:

Edited June 3, 2007 by MeanGreen61

NT80 · June 3, 2007

(sadly for UNT, SMU/Rice/Houston are CUSA members who would have to vote them in).

Trip to DFW or trip to Ruston? Not a tough decision.

johnnylightnin · June 3, 2007

Trip to DFW or trip to Ruston? Not a tough decision.

Competing for East Texas recruits with a school from DFW or a school from Ruston...that's what they'll be thinking about...

NT80 · June 3, 2007

Competing for East Texas recruits with a school from DFW or a school from Ruston...that's what they'll be thinking about...

No, it's about $$ for the program, and more of their alums and media are in the DFW area. Also, other (voting) schools in CUSA like Marshall and East Carolina will want to recruit (and play) more in North Texas than in Central Louisiana.

Edited June 3, 2007 by NT80

johnnylightnin · June 4, 2007

No, it's about $$ for the program, and more of their alums and media are in the DFW area. Also, other (voting) schools in CUSA like Marshall and East Carolina will want to recruit (and play) more in North Texas than in Central Louisiana.

I suppose we'll see.

And one more question: What does central Louisiana have to do with this?

Edited June 4, 2007 by johnnylightnin

GreenEddieNT · June 4, 2007

Well, this is what got UTEP in, it was posted by a UTEP fan on the CUSA board.

UTEP Men's Basketball Tradition

NCAA men's basketball tournament appearances:1963(Lost to Texas 47-65), 1964(Defeated Texas A&M 68-62 & Creighton 63-52, lost to Kansas State 60-64), 1966(Defeated Oklahoma City 89-74, Cincinnati 78-76, Kansas 81-80, Utah 85-78, & Kentucky 72-65), 1967(Defeated Seattle 62-54 & Wyoming 69-67, lost to Pacific 63-72), 1970(Lost to Utah State 81-91), 1975(Lost to Indiana 53-78), 1984(Lost to UNLV 60-73), 1985(Defeated Tulsa 79-75, lost to North Carolina State 73-86), 1986(Lost to Bradley 65-83), 1987(Defeated Arizona 98-91, lost to Iowa 82-84), 1988(Lost to Seton Hall 64-80), 1989(Defeated LSU 85-74, lost to Indiana 69-92), 1990(Lost to Minnesota 61-64), 1992(Defeated Evansville 55-50 & Kansas 66-60, lost to Cincinnati 67-69), 2004(Lost to Maryland 83-86), 2005(Lost to Utah 54-60)

Men's basketball post-season NIT appearances:1965(Lost to Manhattan 53-71), 1972(Lost to Niagara 57-76), 1980(Defeated Wichita State 58-56, lost to Michigan 65-74), 1981(Defeated San Jose State 57-53, lost to Tulsa 67-72), 1983(Lost to Fresno State 64-71), 1993(Defeated Houston 67-61, lost to Georgetown 44-71), 1995(Defeated Montana 90-60, lost to New Mexico State 89-92), 2001(Defeated McNeese State 84-74, lost to Memphis 65-90), 2006(Defeated Lipscomb 85-66, lost to Michigan 67-82)

UTEP Football Tradition

Football bowl appearances

Sun Bowl(El Paso, Texas):1937(Lost to Hardin-Simmons 6-34), 1949(Lost to West Virginia 12-21), 1950(Defeated Georgetown 33-20), 1954(Defeated Southern Miss 37-14), 1955(Defeated Florida State 47-20), 1957(Lost to George Washington 0-13), 1965(Defeated TCU 13-12), 1967(Defeated Ole' Miss 14-7)

Independence Bowl(Shreveport, Louisiana):1988(Lost to Southern Miss 18-38)

Humanitarian Bowl(Boise, Idaho):2000(Lost to Boise State 23-38)

Houston Bowl(Houston, Texas):2004(Lost to Colorado 28-33)

GMAC Bowl(Mobile, Alabama):2005(Lost to Toledo 13-45)

UTEP's Fan Base

Seasons when UTEP has averaged at least 30,000 fans per home game in football:1987(42,086), 1988(35,975), 1992(30,131), 1999(36,455), 2000(44,715), 2004(41,209), 2005(47,899), 2006(42,444)

Seasons when UTEP has averaged at least 8,000 fans per home game in men's basketball:1976-77(10,879), 1977-78(8,124), 1978-79(9,104), 1979-80(9,293), 1980-81(9,346), 1981-82(8,758), 1982-83(8,885), 1983-84(11,568), 1984-85(10,732) 1985-86(11,001), 1986-87(11,106), 1987-88(10,198), 1988-89(10,263), 1989-90(10,927), 1990-91(8,707), 1992-93(8,416), 1993-94(8,738), 1994-95(10,362), 1995-96(8,448), 1999-00(8,534), 2000-01(9,657), 2003-04(10,282), 2004-05(10,405), 2005-06(9,695), 2006-07(8,707)

Main UTEP Football & Basketball Facilities

Football: Sun Bowl Stadium(On campus), seating capacity 51,500

Basketball: Don Haskins Center(On campus), seating capacity 12,000

I found it on the thread where they talk about the Murfreesboro article saying that MTSU is too good for the 'Belt. Anyway, it gives you an idea of the kind of resume it might take to get into CUSA. This is of course assuming CUSA ever has an opening. That may be the most important "if" in all of this. If there is no opening then we're all gonna be staying where we are for a long time. At least in the Sun Belt's case we are now up to 9 football teams and if CUSA stays at its present membership then we don't have to worry about a raid. The WAC, on the other hand, is highly unstable and apparently quite undesirable given its difficulty in luring in teams from the Sun Belt or 1-AA and the fact that everybody there wants to be in the MWC or CUSA.

Edited June 4, 2007 by GreenEddieNT

PlummMeanGreen · June 4, 2007

It will cost a pretty penny, no doubt. Malone is kicking off the TAC improvements with the $350K he handed Reneau on Wednesday. Finally, we've started a capital fund-raising campaign. The improvements to the football stadium are being worked out through private donors and student fees. The money is there, the administration has just refused to go get it until now. I don't know what changed, but I'm glad that it did.
As far as WAC membership, Tech fans feel the WAC is a stronger conference than CUSA (at least in football and basketball). Tech fans see CUSA as a lateral move at best, but it would certainly be a better geographic fit. For every fan who wants CUSA, I'd say there's at least one (maybe .75) that would prefer to stay in the WAC. Why? Competition (think TCU and MWC). So, there's no need for a back-up plan as of yet. We've got the money and Dooley and Malone are doing amazing things to bring former athletes and coaches back into the fold. So, we're fine now, and our situation is only improving. If you talk to ULM or ULL fans, they'll paint a picture of desperation with regards to Ruston...it's simply not true.
We wait on CUSA. If they invite us, good. If not, we're very happy in the WAC. Now, if the MWC expands to twelve and takes the top 3 in the WAC (overall top 3 I mean...Freson/Nevada/Boise), we would be sitting smack dab in the middle of the sunbelt western edition. Under those circumstances and those circumstances only do I see Louisiana Tech requesting admission to the Sunbelt.

Duly impressed with the $350,000 K. Malone gave La Tech. Ex NFL and NBA pros have not always been that generous to their alma maters from what one former UNT Advancement official once told me. FYI and as I recollect, ex UNT men's varsity basketball coach Bill Blakely was one of Karl Malones first sports agents (if not his very first upon graduation from La Tech.

Having seen what some of the ex SWC/present CUSA schools are drawing at the turnstiles in football (even against each other) just doesn't make me get as "goo-goo eyed" :wacko: about CUSA as most of my fellow alums. UNT's annual trips to Florida as a member of the SBC will eventually be a recruiting plus once those 2 Florida/ SBC schools build up their football programs; and with one of those schools which will soon turn dirt on a new football stadium.

I also feel larger attendance figures (even more than most CUSA schools are now producing at the turnstiles versus each other) will be very crucial and important down the line as far as a future membership in NCAA D1-A is concerned and is another reason I hope UNT will build our new stadium with as large a capacity as possible and..............................since we pretty well know we can get some name upper-division Big 12 schools into Denton; truth be known, probably many others outside the Big 12.

CAN YOU BELIEVE THE TEXAS LONGHORNS WOULD SCHEDULE THIS GAME ON THE ROAD? U of Central Florida is going to host the Texas Longhorns in the grand opening of their new stadium. :blink: To (perhaps) a few doubting Thomases who think UNT cannot do such things, couple what UCF did with UT as a not too well known non-BCS school as they host a recent national champion; anyway, couple that with the fact that UNT has already hosted some pretty impressive name schools at Texas Stadium the last few decades and...............

....................... I think more of our own elect will see that the larger a football stadium we can build in Denton, the more Longhorns, Aggies, Red Raiders, Bears, OSU Cowboys, OU Sooners traveling fans we can fit into such a larger stadium (uh, can we all say in unison------"larger OOC Game Day gate receipts at our new campus stadium?"); and with every bit of this taking place at our Mean Green Village, ie, the future home of our new football stadium.

FWIW...............won't it be such "name school" OOC Game Days in Denton that will help us start getting those 35-40,000 per home game turnstile averages on an annual basis?

johnnylightnin', whether we are ever in a conference together or not, probably still makes sense for La Tech and UNT to play each other in most all sports (men & women) and when both programs are running full cylinders in football, it could make for an eventual good crowd-drawing series. Just my .02...........

Edited June 4, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

johnnylightnin · June 4, 2007

johnnylightnin', whether we are ever in a conference together or not, probably still makes sense for La Tech and UNT to play each other in most all sports (men & women) and when both programs are running full cylinders in football, it could make for an eventual good crowd-drawing series. Just my .02...........

I agree. Sadly, our last home and home was scheduled during some down years for both programs. Personally, I wish ULL, UNT, and A-State would've been added with NMSU and USU to put the WAC at 12 and re-establish the E-WAC, but Karl (Benson) didn't ask me.

Oh well...

Good luck this season and in the future.

MCMLXXX · June 4, 2007

Your WAC 12 with UNT, ASU, ULL, La Tech, and NMSU in an eastern division would have been a good option for us.

NT80 · June 4, 2007

Your WAC 12 with UNT, ASU, ULL, La Tech, and NMSU in an eastern division would have been a good option for us.

Maybe it's time to revisit that option again? 14 teams, 7 per division (3H, 3A) plus 2 crossover games (1H, 1A) plus 4 OOC games = 12 season games.

East:

UNT

ULL

ASU

La Tech

NMSU

MTSU

Troy

West:

Boise St.

Fresno

Hawaii

Nevada

Idaho

SJSU

Utah St.

Edited June 4, 2007 by NT80

johnnylightnin · June 4, 2007

14 is too much. 12 was perfect, but Benson has ZERO interest in expanding to the East. That, in my opinion, is why he didn't offer UNT/ULL/A-State the packaged deal. He offered to UNT individually because, I think, he knew they would turn it down.

MeanGreen61 · June 4, 2007

14 is too much. 12 was perfect, but Benson has ZERO interest in expanding to the East. That, in my opinion, is why he didn't offer UNT/ULL/A-State the packaged deal. He offered to UNT individually because, I think, he knew they would turn it down.

Nope. Understand that he then offered ULL & they also said no. Then he approached and made inquiries with first ASU and then MTSU. Beleive that he did try to find Tech a travel partner, but got individual no's for answers.

NT80 · June 4, 2007

14 is too much. 12 was perfect, but Benson has ZERO interest in expanding to the East. That, in my opinion, is why he didn't offer UNT/ULL/A-State the packaged deal. He offered to UNT individually because, I think, he knew they would turn it down.

14 in divisions is not much different from 12 when in divisions. It helps in case of future raiding or loss of members, plus it helps minor sports where not all schools sponsor some sports, like baseball.

johnnylightnin · June 4, 2007

14 in divisions is not much different from 12 when in divisions. It helps in case of future raiding or loss of members, plus it helps minor sports where not all schools sponsor some sports, like baseball.

In the WAC, it prompted instability and the formation of the MWC. I don't see the WAC going to 14...or 12 for that matter. Benson will model his "western" conference after the Pac-10 and the MWC.

MeanGreen61 · June 4, 2007

In the WAC, it prompted instability and the formation of the MWC. I don't see the WAC going to 14...or 12 for that matter. Benson will model his "western" conference after the Pac-10 and the MWC.

Agree that the WAC really wants to be "western" and any future expansion will probably be Pacific or Mountain Time Zone members.

NT80 · June 4, 2007

Agree that the WAC really wants to be "western" and any future expansion will probably be Pacific or Mountain Time Zone members.

I don't see them surviving as a conference with that mentality. There are not enough western teams for 3 full 1-A conferences, especially if the WAC gets raided at all. Some 1-AAs would be needed ASAP. I think it would be foolish for them to go 1-AA route vs. an eastern division of existing 1-A programs, but Benson could be stubborn to the point of losing it all. <_<

MeanGreen61 · June 4, 2007

I don't see them surviving as a conference with that mentality. There are not enough western teams for 3 full 1-A conferences, especially if the WAC gets raided at all. Some 1-AAs would be needed ASAP. I think it would be foolish for them to go 1-AA route vs. an eastern division of existing 1-A programs, but Benson could be stubborn to the point of losing it all.

Their board discusses Montana, UC-Davis, UC Sacramento and possibly Montana State making the move. All are within the WAC "footprint".

NT80 · June 4, 2007

Their board discusses Montana, UC-Davis, UC Sacramento and possibly Montana State making the move. All are within the WAC "footprint".

I think Montana would be a quality addition. Not sure about the others' facilities, budgets, fans, etc. I heard at one time that Montana couldn't move up without Montana State coming too, not sure if it's true.

stebo · June 4, 2007

What I was referring to (if you had read the post) - were annual budget numbers... not facility improvements. CUSQA has a bylaw stating that all members must have an annual operating budget of at least $20 million. La Tech was (and still is) hovering in the $9-$10 million range. NT was also in the range but we listened to the folks at CUSA - reacted to it, and have been gradually boosting our budget each year. In the 2 years since the expansion, North Texas has moved our annual operating budget UP about $4 million bucks. In that same time, La Tech has reported only a slight improvement (less then $500K). If CUSA were to come calling, we would only need to come up with another $5 million a year in order to reach their minimum standards... La Tech would need to basically DOUBLE their budget. I know all about the arguement for in state tuition being paid by the State of LA; but that was broken down to about $1.3 million at a maximum (if all athletes were using the in state tuition waiver and La Tech were to accept zero out of state recruits)... obviously this isn't the case, you have a lot of LA students on your rosters but it isn't anywhere close to 100%.. so maybe that accounts for $500K to $750K. You have a long ways to go to be compliant with CUSA bylaws but obviously - so does NT... we are just working towards it a little faster. Of course it is a lot easier for us to do that when we have the savings of the Belt on our side...