Sun Belt The Best For Middle Tennessee - Right Now

[MeanGreen61]

Article off the Muts board.

Sparks: Sun Belt is best for MTSU ... for now

By ADAM SPARKS

sparks@dnj.com

MTSU is the class of the Sun Belt Conference, but in what class is the Sun Belt?

All that stands between MTSU and its fourth Bubas Cup, the league's annual all-sports award, is the end to the baseball regular season this weekend.

MTSU set all-time home attendance records in two of its most visible sports this season, football and women's basketball, and men's basketball recorded its second highest attendance average in the last decade despite its only losing season in the last five years.

Lady Raider basketball was a top-25 team. Football went to its first Division I-A bowl and will have played five of its six nationally-televised games in program history in only two seasons.

With the recent and upcoming additions of a synthetic surface, videoboard and other cosmetic improvements, Floyd Stadium is steadily being transformed from a tin box to a visual strength for the athletic corner of campus.

Meanwhile, two of the university's most enviable structures, a new track/soccer stadium and baseball stadium, will debut within a year of one another.

Athletes' academic scores are way up, and so is fundraising.

Business is booming, but has MTSU hit its conference's ceiling?

Sun Belt or bust?

MTSU will win its fourth all-sports award in seven years. Western Kentucky owns the other three.

That type of run is hardly unparalleled in league history, but it is in the conference's new age upon adding football in 2001.

If held together for the long haul, some think the Sun Belt has a bright future on the national scene. Others feel MTSU may be like the valedictorian of summer school, as the leader in a league searching for its identity.

Reality is probably somewhere in between, but where does that place MTSU?

The Blue Raiders' ascent is accelerating faster than its conference brothers. A few Sun Belt schools are on par with MTSU in terms of athletic performance, facilities and athletic budgets — including Western Kentucky, North Texas and maybe one or two more. The rest, unfortunately, are lagging behind.

The Sun Belt has made forward strides, but more are needed.

For now, MTSU and its few fellow frontrunners are content with the Sun Belt and have limited options, but that will eventually change.

The Mid-American Conference may not be a good fit for most Sun Belt schools. Conference USA is now more geographically challenged than the Sun Belt, which is gaining a makeup similar to the Southeastern Conference.

If the bottom half of the Sun Belt could catch the top, the league would flourish and provide the best environment for all members. If not, the conference's upper class members will always consider other options.

[NT80]

Article off the Muts board.

Sparks: Sun Belt is best for MTSU ... for now

By ADAM SPARKS

sparks@dnj.com

MTSU is the class of the Sun Belt Conference, but in what class is the Sun Belt?

All that stands between MTSU and its fourth Bubas Cup, the league's annual all-sports award, is the end to the baseball regular season this weekend.

MTSU set all-time home attendance records in two of its most visible sports this season, football and women's basketball, and men's basketball recorded its second highest attendance average in the last decade despite its only losing season in the last five years.

Lady Raider basketball was a top-25 team. Football went to its first Division I-A bowl and will have played five of its six nationally-televised games in program history in only two seasons.

With the recent and upcoming additions of a synthetic surface, videoboard and other cosmetic improvements, Floyd Stadium is steadily being transformed from a tin box to a visual strength for the athletic corner of campus.

Meanwhile, two of the university's most enviable structures, a new track/soccer stadium and baseball stadium, will debut within a year of one another.

Athletes' academic scores are way up, and so is fundraising.

Business is booming, but has MTSU hit its conference's ceiling?

Sun Belt or bust?

MTSU will win its fourth all-sports award in seven years. Western Kentucky owns the other three.

That type of run is hardly unparalleled in league history, but it is in the conference's new age upon adding football in 2001.

If held together for the long haul, some think the Sun Belt has a bright future on the national scene. Others feel MTSU may be like the valedictorian of summer school, as the leader in a league searching for its identity.

Reality is probably somewhere in between, but where does that place MTSU?

The Blue Raiders' ascent is accelerating faster than its conference brothers. A few Sun Belt schools are on par with MTSU in terms of athletic performance, facilities and athletic budgets — including Western Kentucky, North Texas and maybe one or two more. The rest, unfortunately, are lagging behind.

The Sun Belt has made forward strides, but more are needed.

For now, MTSU and its few fellow frontrunners are content with the Sun Belt and have limited options, but that will eventually change.

The Mid-American Conference may not be a good fit for most Sun Belt schools. Conference USA is now more geographically challenged than the Sun Belt, which is gaining a makeup similar to the Southeastern Conference.

If the bottom half of the Sun Belt could catch the top, the league would flourish and provide the best environment for all members. If not, the conference's upper class members will always consider other options.

The all-sports awards are biased towards those programs that sponsor more sports, thus get more points, like baseball. The article implies they might consider a MAC spot if offered. They seem discontent with being in a basement league as much as our fanbase does too. It's a no-brainer that most of NT's largest attendances have been for non-conference contests.

[good_ken]

The all-sports awards are biased towards those programs that sponsor more sports, thus get more points, like baseball. The article implies they might consider a MAC spot if offered. They seem discontent with being in a basement league as much as our fanbase does too. It's a no-brainer that most of NT's largest attendances have been for non-conference contests.

I will feel more comfortable when things are back to the way they are supposed to be: UNT beating MTSU every year. It just seems to be one of the things that keeps the universe in balance.

[FirefightnRick]

MTSU is the class of the Sun Belt Conference,

Oh my. So Sexy!!!!!!!! Here we go again!

Rick

[NT80]

Oh my. So Sexy!!!!!!!! Here we go again!

Rick

Two times the bridesmaid, but never the bride!

[MeanGreen61]

The sports that drive the choo-choo for conference changes.

#1 Football (the biggie) - Muts are 1-5 vs UNT

#2 Mens basketball - Muts are 4-4 vs UNT

[BlueRaiderFan]

The sports that drive the choo-choo for conference changes.

#1 Football (the biggie) - Muts are 1-5 vs UNT

#2 Mens basketball - Muts are 4-4 vs UNT

Yeah, but our record against UNT has little to do with how another conference would perceive MT. We have a Top 25 Women's B Ball program, a baseball team that goes to the tourney quite often and a Men's Football team that had a great year last year. We do need to prove a lot more in football, but when other conferences start looking around, I have to think that we look a bit better than most of the Sunbelt. I personally would rather stay in the Sunbelt than go to the MAC and from what I've read, so would most MT fans, but if Conf USA comes calling, we are gone. Right now, Troy, MT, UNT and maybe one other team has a shot at Conf USA if the Big East decides to go to 12 teams and pulls from Conf USA, in that order. I don't think we are too good for this conference and I love the rivalries we've developed. If given the choice between beating Texas and beating UNT, I'll take a win over UNT every time. Same goes for Troy...and WKU. There. Done.

[MeanGreen61]

A reply by Arkstfan on the article from the Sun belt board.

Terrible

First the writer forgets that short time ago we were wringing our hands wondering if MTSU was going to be able to conform to the attendance mandate. MTSU was consistently dropping home games vs. I-AA programs. Fans around the league wondered just how much longer the failed Andy Mac era would be permitted to continue.

The Belt needs stability and success. There are significant signs that realignment may be over or future realignment may be nominal. The worst thing to do is to sell fans on we want a better nameplate rather than we want to field a better product.

Putting people in a CUSA or bust mindset is a formula to fail with dramatic results.

La.Tech is in the WAC now, big whoop, none of the teams they moved there to be with are still there. They preached the gospel of CUSA or bust and got passed over for six other schools. Fan hopes built on CUSA have been mostly dashed.

When you look at the numbers (television, attendance, power ratings) CUSA's level is reachable. We're 2-3 vs. them in the New Orleans Bowl and if memory serves we were 4-3 head-to-head last season.

Building hope around a different league that may not have any expansion the next decade or more is foolish, building that hope around moving to a league that may be nothing but a lateral move by the time it happens is even more foolish.

It's like financial planning built on regular lottery ticket purchase rather than having a sound budget, saving and investment plan.

Look at BYU in TV interest, attendance, and success, clearly they belong in one of the rich six leagues yet it hasn't happened. Build to be the best you can rather than spreading a fresh coat of paint to try to make the property move faster and make a quick sale. If BYU got in an expanded Pac-12 next season and 10 years later it were to break-up they'd be fine because they have developed a program, not a quick sale mentality. By building a program they tend to have consistent success in their conference because they can afford to recover from mistakes more easily.

That is how you build a future.

[FirefightnRick]

Good post Mark.

Rick

[MeanGreen61]

Off the Muts board. A sensible Muts poster ?

Re: Sparks: Sun Belt is best for MTSU ... for now

I'm sorry folks, but this is just another typical DNJ homer article. I wish the DNJ would be just a little more objective. Are things improving at MT? Yes, of course. Leadership under Massaro has never been better. But are we the "class of the SBC?" Well, that's a bit of stretch. So, the Bubas Cup is the standard? Again, why shouldn't we win the damn thing when we have more sports than everyone else?

Let's look at things objectively.

Football: A 7-6 season coming off four straight losing seasons. Improving, but we haven't yet proven that we could dominate the conference or sustain any success, and we've managed only two winning seasons since 2001. Things are looking up under Stockstill, but we have a long way to go before we can say we're head and shoulders above the rest of the league. Last year we could have lost just as many as we won. We weren't that much better than anyone else and probably beat a couple of teams that had more talent than we did.

Basketball: Haven't made it to the postseason since Reagan was in the White House. Losing season this past season.

WBB: The only individual sport that truly is the class of the Belt.

Baseball: We've been competitive and have a couple of championships, but we have yet to win more than one game in the NCAA tournament since Brazelton turned pro compared to several teams that have either gone to the College World Series or a Super Regional. We've never done either. Louisiana-Lafayette has shown that it can get to the top and stay there. We're chasing a couple of programs in terms of BB prestige, but the new stadium should help.

Everything else: We've won very few conference championships in anything else except track and several schools have caught MT in this regard (just see this past season). Dean Hayes - the legend that he is - is close to the end of his career and no one will ever be able to do what he's done here. Tennis has been dominated by South Alabama except one season, and I can't think of anything else we've won in the past six or seven years.

The point here is I don't see what's made MT the "class of the league" and I will flat out refuse to give any credibility to the all-sports trophy until it's equitable for the other schools not named Western Kentucky. He can argue that we're in the upper half or upper third, but MT certainly hasn't cornered the SBC market just yet. The DNJ needs more objectivity to recognize what the University is doing well and what it isn't. Accountability is a great motivator and leads to a more successful organization or institution. Unfortunatley, the DNJ routinely gives the University a free pass. It's good for the local paper to support the local University, but this article is beyond absurd.

[RaiderInTheZone]

The all-sports awards are biased towards those programs that sponsor more sports, thus get more points, like baseball. The article implies they might consider a MAC spot if offered. They seem discontent with being in a basement league as much as our fanbase does too. It's a no-brainer that most of NT's largest attendances have been for non-conference contests.

I keep hearing this myself, but I disagree with it. The two wealthiest schools in the Sun Belt Conference are Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee in that order. Those two schools have the money to adequately fund competitive programs across the board. Both won 4 league titles apiece. That's 8 combined league titles in 19 conference-sponsored sports. Middle Tennessee didn't finish in the bottom half of the league in any of the 17 sports we sponsor. You have to give us credit. We're doing something right. And we built a new $4 million Track and Soccer Stadium (already paid for mostly by athletic fees and $1.5 million from the city of Murfreesboro), building a new $5 million baseball stadium (already raised by donations from the city and wealthy donors), installing more open-air boxes and a videoscoreboard to a football stadium that's pretty nice to begin with, installing TWO videoscoreboards in the basketball arena which is also pretty nice.

We're doing everything right. Western Kentucky is doing everything right. That's why they are moving to 1-A in football and building a nice addition to their football stadium. They wish to stay at the top of the league overall and 1-A football will do that for them and they will need to put more money there as well. Doing it the right way through adequate funding is why Middle Tennessee and Western Kentucky are at the top of the league standings for this award every year. It has nothing to do with bias. If North Texas was putting all of their athletic funding into football, then where are the much needed renovations to Fouts Field or new stadium? You don't even have a baseball stadium to worry about funding maintenance for. You have to have money sitting somewhere. I'm not trying to be mean, but I think when we keep hearing about the league being biased toward us for having more sports, it comes back to what are we doing to be at the top and what other schools in the league aren't doing that's keeping them at the bottom and it goes much deeper than number of sponsored sports or Title IX.

Edited May 21, 2007 by RaiderInTheZone

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

I keep hearing this myself, but I disagree with it. The two wealthiest schools in the Sun Belt Conference are Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee in that order. Those two schools have the money to adequately fund competitive programs across the board. Both won 4 league titles apiece. That's 8 combined league titles in 19 conference-sponsored sports. Middle Tennessee didn't finish in the bottom half of the league in any of the 17 sports we sponsor. You have to give us credit. We're doing something right. And we built a new $4 million Track and Soccer Stadium (already paid for mostly by athletic fees and $1.5 million from the city of Murfreesboro), building a new $5 million baseball stadium (already raised by donations from the city and wealthy donors), installing more open-air boxes and a videoscoreboard to a football stadium that's pretty nice to begin with, installing TWO videoscoreboards in the basketball arena which is also pretty nice.

We're doing everything right. Western Kentucky is doing everything right. That's why they are moving to 1-A in football and building a nice addition to their football stadium. They wish to stay at the top of the league overall and 1-A football will do that for them and they will need to put more money there as well. Doing it the right way through adequate funding is why Middle Tennessee and Western Kentucky are at the top of the league standings for this award every year. It has nothing to do with bias. If North Texas was putting all of their athletic funding into football, then where are the much needed renovations to Fouts Field or new stadium? You don't even have a baseball stadium to worry about funding maintenance for. You have to have money sitting somewhere. I'm not trying to be mean, but I think when we keep hearing about the league being biased toward us for having more sports, it comes back to what are we doing to be at the top and what other schools in the league aren't doing that's keeping them at the bottom and it goes much deeper than number of sponsored sports or Title IX.

I agree with you regarding the Bubas Cup but one small correction...you only sponsor 15 of the 17 conference sports. Western Kentucky, when they begin football competition will be the only school to sponsor all 17 sports. We sponsor 14; we do not field a team in baseball, men's tennis or men's swimming & diving. Still, even if we took those sports into account that we could not have received any points for, you still won that cup by a wide margin. I think that's excellent.

I'm not sure what you are basing your "wealthiest" schools in the Sun Belt on. Is it athletic facilities? annual income? alumni donations? There is no one team that truly dominates any of those categories. The SBC cow does not have any cream. No 'class' of the league. I think that's what ruffled the feathers over here. You've got an improving program and I'm glad to see it. So do we. So does Troy. Arkansas State is certainly well ahead of where they were a few years back. And, I still live in hope for ULL, who do well most of the time but are prone to self-destruction. If the two Floridas can come anywhere near what Central and South Florida accomplished then this league in time should become at the least consistently better than the MAC.

I don't think that we reject the tone of the article. After all, we're all striving to put our alma mater in the best possible situation for success.

[GrandGreen]

On what basis do you assume WKU or MTSU are the wealthiest schools in the Belt? I doubt that either spend a significant amount more on athletics

than NT despite having direct state support which can't happen in Texas. Every school reports differently and although these numbers in some macro sense may be meaningful they are not when comparing schools that are very close in expenditures.

I think the reason that WKU and MTSU continue to share the Bubas Cup is they just have cared more about the minor sports. The number of sports is somewhat IMO a bad argument to disparate results. MTSU has one more sport than NT, WKU has two, but even if you averaged the results not totaled to determine standings, NT would still significantly lag. In fact, I think that NT who usually ends up at least in the top 3 or 4 may have its worst year in the Bubas cup standings this year.

WKU and MTSU should enjoy their cups, however I think that NT will continue to improve and challenge in the near future. Upgrades in woman tennis and swimming are already in place, volleyball had a good year last year. NT has an opportunity to move the softball program up with a coaching change. The most important sports or sports in this type competition is track which actually counts as three sports although using the same athletes; indoor track, outdoor track and cross country. This is a sport that NT should dominate but doesn't seem to take as seriously as others. NT could load up on foreign distance runners like some of our Belt competition or at least attempt to get capable athletes in most events. The women's team for example has probably a dozen sprinters that compete in the 100 to 400 meters but has other events with no or only token participants.

Edited May 21, 2007 by GrandGreen

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

I keep hearing this myself, but I disagree with it. The two wealthiest schools in the Sun Belt Conference are Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee in that order. Those two schools have the money to adequately fund competitive programs across the board. Both won 4 league titles apiece. That's 8 combined league titles in 19 conference-sponsored sports. Middle Tennessee didn't finish in the bottom half of the league in any of the 17 sports we sponsor. You have to give us credit. We're doing something right. And we built a new $4 million Track and Soccer Stadium (already paid for mostly by athletic fees and $1.5 million from the city of Murfreesboro), building a new $5 million baseball stadium (already raised by donations from the city and wealthy donors), installing more open-air boxes and a videoscoreboard to a football stadium that's pretty nice to begin with, installing TWO videoscoreboards in the basketball arena which is also pretty nice.

We're doing everything right. Western Kentucky is doing everything right. That's why they are moving to 1-A in football and building a nice addition to their football stadium. They wish to stay at the top of the league overall and 1-A football will do that for them and they will need to put more money there as well. Doing it the right way through adequate funding is why Middle Tennessee and Western Kentucky are at the top of the league standings for this award every year. It has nothing to do with bias. If North Texas was putting all of their athletic funding into football, then where are the much needed renovations to Fouts Field or new stadium? You don't even have a baseball stadium to worry about funding maintenance for. You have to have money sitting somewhere. I'm not trying to be mean, but I think when we keep hearing about the league being biased toward us for having more sports, it comes back to what are we doing to be at the top and what other schools in the league aren't doing that's keeping them at the bottom and it goes much deeper than number of sponsored sports or Title IX.

You know I read posts like this and visit other non-BCS schools athletic websites and wonder why is it that UNT struggles so much in areas where other schools seem to be excelling, even schools in the SBC. MTSU has a new soccer and track stadium and is in the process of building a $6M baseball diamond and most of it is paid for, and by their city. It seems as though our competition is making 100 steps forward to our 1 step foward.

We as a school have no backing by the city of Denton and MTSU has their city handing them money. MTSU is building new facilities which attract recruits and they have no problem bumping up the student fees to get this accomplished, while UNT has this idea shot down time and time again. MTSU is having a new diamond built while UNT can only dream of getting a Baseball team this decade.

Who needs to get convinced at UNT that we desparately need to make some changes to keep up with our competition? Are our BOR that ignorant that they cant see that our athletic programs are getting passed up by schools we were dominating only a few years ago? Do they not see that we really need to allocate more funding to the athletic department to keep up with changing times?

This frustrates me as there is no reason that we shouldn't be able to boast about the same changes taking place at UNT. Yes I know we have a new head coach...but as fans are we to be content with only this change?

I read a post that made the point that maybe some people on our athletic staff are here now to simply collect a paycheck and wait for another opening at another D1 school. That they do not care for the future of UNT because they are ready to check out at the first opening, so what do they do to not let on about this? Throw out a bone to the fans every once in a while to keep them off their back.

[MeanGreen61]

Well daddy, UNT has accomplished quite a bit. Not our new stadium and not a baseball field, but much has been done.

State of the art athletic center

Soccer stadium

Softball Stadium

Also the new tennis facility, practice fields, volleyball gym. A lot has been done

[MeanGreen61]

nm

Edited May 21, 2007 by MeanGreen61

[RaiderInTheZone]

On what basis do you assume WKU or MTSU are the wealthiest schools in the Belt? I doubt that either spend a significant amount more on athletics than NT despite having direct state support which can't happen in Texas. Every school reports differently and although these numbers in some macro sense may be meaningful they are not when comparing schools that are very close in expenditures.

The wealth is based on size of athletic budget supplied by Equity in Athletics. And I should rephrase, that Middle Tennessee and Western Kentucky are the wealthiest of the public Sun Belt schools. Denver is the wealthiest, but their geographic anomaly makes it hard for them to put money toward their sports when they are paying for travel costs. By the way, Tennessee does not have the support of the Tennessee Board of Regents to fund anything to do with it's athletic department. All of our facilities have been paid for by the city of Murfreesboro, donations, corporate partners, athletic fees, etc. but not the state government.

Denver--$19 million

Western Kentucky --$16 million

Middle Tennessee--$15.2 million

Florida International--$15.1 million

North Texas--$13.8 million

Florida Atlantic--$13.2 million

Troy--$12 million

Arkansas State--$10 million

Arkansas-Little Rock--$9.4 million

Louisiana-Lafayette--$8 million

South Alabama--$7.3 million

Louisiana-Monroe--$7.1 million

New Orleans--$4.5 million (this school was crippled by Katrina)

[MCMLXXX]

http://www2.indystar.com/NCAA_financial_reports/

My source has WKU at 14,700,000. It is "the most detailed, publicly available database of college athletic department financial information ever assembled."

It cannot verify your MTSU figures.

[MCMLXXX]

I just checked your source and it is for a more recent year. You fail to point out that UNT had a net excess revenue of $1.2 million, whereas WKU and MUTS revenues equal expenses.

[PlummMeanGreen]

The wealth is based on size of athletic budget supplied by Equity in Athletics. And I should rephrase, that Middle Tennessee and Western Kentucky are the wealthiest of the public Sun Belt schools. Denver is the wealthiest, but their geographic anomaly makes it hard for them to put money toward their sports when they are paying for travel costs. By the way, Tennessee does not have the support of the Tennessee Board of Regents to fund anything to do with it's athletic department. All of our facilities have been paid for by the city of Murfreesboro, donations, corporate partners, athletic fees, etc. but not the state government.

Denver--$19 million

Western Kentucky --$16 million

Middle Tennessee--$15.2 million

Florida International--$15.1 million

North Texas--$13.8 million

Florida Atlantic--$13.2 million

Troy--$12 million

Arkansas State--$10 million

Arkansas-Little Rock--$9.4 million

Louisiana-Lafayette--$8 million

South Alabama--$7.3 million

Louisiana-Monroe--$7.1 million

New Orleans--$4.5 million (this school was crippled by Katrina)

Obviously, each state represented in the Sun Belt probably has different methods of bookkeeping to show profit/loss margins?

Duly note that "non football" SBC school U of Denver has the largest athletic budget in the entire SBC? And to quote Ricky Ricardo: Plleeeezzzz esplain that one, Luuuuucy!?!?!?!

And shouldn't we continue to just let MT keep thinking they are the class of the Sun Belt? I thought they were (in deed) those 4 straight years we went bowling and they stayed home in the 'Boro being classy!

Edited May 22, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[AJR2010OX]

I find it really funny that the University of Florida's English Dept. budget (as quoted by Sports Illustrated) is the same as South Alabama's entire athletic budget.

Also, no one can consider themselves the class of the Sun Belt unless:

-They win 75% of all league titles (men's and women's)

-They have a football team.... that wins decent OOC games

-They consistently draw 85-90% capacity crowds (football)... because you go to support your team, not the other one, right?

-ALL their teams win... Having 2 really good teams and 3-4 crappy teams does not cut it.

-They have support from their city. Rag on Lubbock, and College Station, wherever UCF/USF are, BYU, and even New Mexico State, point is their cities support them. Screw T-Dub, the school is worth absolutely nothing to Denton. I mean, think about if NT just absorbed them. The guy-girl ratio would be higher, we could support more sports, and theres a whole lot more reasons.

-they produce revenue.... dont ask me how, they just do it.

-name recognition. When people tell them "Oh, I'm from Arkansas State," people dont ask "Thats not the one in fayetville is it?" Or when people say "I'm from UNT" they dont ask, "Is that a community college in Austin?" or something of that nature.

Name recognition is the biggest one, IMO.

Obviously, each state represented in the Sun Belt probably has different methods of bookkeeping to show profit/loss margins?

Duly note that "non football" SBC school U of Denver has the largest athletic budget in the entire SBC? And to quote Ricky Ricardo: Plleeeezzzz esplain that one, Luuuuucy!?!?!?!

And shouldn't we continue to just let MT keep thinking they are the class of the Sun Belt? I thought they were (in deed) those 4 straight years we went bowling and they stayed home in the 'Boro being classy!

[CMJ]

Duly note that "non football" SBC school U of Denver has the largest athletic budget in the entire SBC? And to quote Ricky Ricardo: Plleeeezzzz esplain that one, Luuuuucy!?!?!?!

Easily...hockey is damn expensive.

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

Also, no one can consider themselves the class of the Sun Belt unless:

-They win 75% of all league titles (men's and women's)

-They have a football team.... that wins decent OOC games

-They consistently draw 85-90% capacity crowds (football)... because you go to support your team, not the other one, right?

-ALL their teams win... Having 2 really good teams and 3-4 crappy teams does not cut it.

-They have support from their city. Rag on Lubbock, and College Station, wherever UCF/USF are, BYU, and even New Mexico State, point is their cities support them. Screw T-Dub, the school is worth absolutely nothing to Denton. I mean, think about if NT just absorbed them. The guy-girl ratio would be higher, we could support more sports, and theres a whole lot more reasons.

-they produce revenue.... dont ask me how, they just do it.

-name recognition. When people tell them "Oh, I'm from Arkansas State," people dont ask "Thats not the one in fayetville is it?" Or when people say "I'm from UNT" they dont ask, "Is that a community college in Austin?" or something of that nature.

Name recognition is the biggest one, IMO.

Sooooo...what you're saying is that there is no 'Class of the Sunbelt'

[AJR2010OX]

bingo.

I have yet to see one school completely dominate everyone in everything.

Sooooo...what you're saying is that there is no 'Class of the Sunbelt'

[MeanGreen61]

bingo.

I have yet to see one school completely dominate everyone in everything.

The Muts don't seem to be all that dominant. This is just a 4 sport comparison vs UNT. Don't know how they compare vs other Belt members. Of the 4, they've got us in women's basketball.

Football

UNT - 4 bowl appearances

Muts - 1 bowl appearance

Mens Basketball

UNT - 1 NCAA appearance

Muts - 0 NCAA appearances

Women's Basketball

UNT - 1 WNIT appearance

Muts - 1 WNIT (I beleive), 4 NCAA appearance

Soccer

UNT - 2 NCAA appearances

Muts -0 NCAA appearances

Edited May 22, 2007 by MeanGreen61