Totally Insane

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

Baseball....give it a rest...bring back men's soccer...no, the cost would be much less than baseball...even considering the out of stste travel...how many away games does the baseball team play...hey, the college world series is just now over...check the number of games D-1 baseball teams play....40 plus per season...how many away games????? We already have a great soccer pitch ready to go...no extra cost there...scholarships are fewer in soccer than baseball and you need much less equipment and uniform costs for soccer.....so, if your argument is cost...GreenBat...give it a rest. But, have no fear...looks like baseball is on the way...soccer, not so much! Ah, yes, baseball and the Rangers, the only game where you can get up, go to the men's room (or ladies room as the case might be) stand in line at the concession stand for a beer and dog, get back to your seat about 30 min. later and the same guy is at the plate and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING has happened in all that time. Really exciting...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ! Baseball...great game to play...absolutely boring to watch for 3 hr. or so. O.K., you baseball folks...bring it on....I can see the steam rising now about the low scoring soccer games...just remember, if a soccer goal counted 6+1point for a PAT points like football we would see a lot of 14-7, 21-0, etc. games and everyone would be talking about all the points scored in soccer. What's up with a TD counting 6 points anyway? Why not 1 point...it's only one TD, right?

Not sure where or what this post was about. But I guarantee you that more fans will come watch Baseball than mens soccer. We need a Baseball team, not a soccer team. I'm sorry but baseball is right up there with Football and Basketball and soccer is right down there with water polo and horseshoes.

[KRAM1]

So, Daddy Dumpsalot, when was the last time you went to a waterpolo or horseshoes match? My guess is that both took a lot less time to play and were more exciting than sitting on your "duff" for 3-31/2 hours to watch a full 1-2 min. of actual action as you did at the last baseball game you attended. Yes, I agree that college baseball is much...MUCH...more fun and exciting to watch than professional baseball, but.....Have you ever even been to a man's college soccer match or an FC Dallas game for that matter? Just wondering. Me, I played baseball for many years, so am not "opposed" to the game...it's a game that is great to play...but, to me, very boring to watch. Like I said...don't worry, it's baseball, in spite of it being boring and much more expensive to the University to operate, that we will see before we see, if we ever do, men's soccer gain. It was, the "winningest" sport in the history of UNT athletics when it was here...probably still is if anyone checked! I guess I'll see you at the baseball games...I need a good nap!

[OldTimer]

Does UNT not have a baseball team!!!

I get the money, title 13, facilities etc.

I would love an update!

This will probably repeat some posting...but again think if you add baseball you must add a womans sport to comply with title 9....Forgetting the cost of a stadium which would cost over $1 million. Can you suggest where to get the $1 million annually to run baseball and a womans sport. Any suggestions what sport to take the budget out of? When I was at El Paso Community College the board decided to add baseball and softball....in one year we used up the funding that had accumulated, over $1 million....the next year guess where the money had to come from.....the schools academic and operations budget.

When I was at Pratt Community College in Kansas they had a baseball program...(no football)...there were never more than 20 to 30 in attendance at any one game. Maybe attendance will be better in Denton, but can it support a baseball program and another womens sports.

Some people need to wake up and be realistic. I am proud of what NT has accomplished to upgrade its overall athletic program and facilities in the last few years......which couldn't have been done if we had to fund baseball and another sport. Maybe sometime in future.

[KRAM1]

In baseball's defense...yes, I will say something kind about baseball...I attended Oklahoma State for grad school, and they play a pretty decent brand of college baseball in Stillwater. The attendance, and I was at many games, was much better than 20-30...in the hundreds for all the games I saw...BUT, still "in the hundreds". Baseball is NOT a revenue generating sport. Will never pay anywhere near it's annual cost to operate, but then which sports at UNT do? Name one...ONE...women's sport that even pays the cost of keeping the towels in the locker room clean! It's about the $$$$, but not ALL about the $$$ when it comes to college athletics. If it were, we would not have college athletics! PERIOD!

[UNTFan23]

In baseball's defense...yes, I will say something kind about baseball...I attended Oklahoma State for grad school, and they play a pretty decent brand of college baseball in Stillwater. The attendance, and I was at many games, was much better than 20-30...in the hundreds for all the games I saw...BUT, still "in the hundreds". Baseball is NOT a revenue generating sport. Will never pay anywhere near it's annual cost to operate, but then which sports at UNT do? Name one...ONE...women's sport that even pays the cost of keeping the towels in the locker room clean! It's about the $$$$, but not ALL about the $$$ when it comes to college athletics. If it were, we would not have college athletics! PERIOD!

Men's Soccer is likely to have the same amount of attention that many of the women's sports now garner. Personally, I find both sports almost as boring but would more likely go to a baseball game before even remotely consider attending a soccer game. To pay for a soccer game would be an even bigger turn off; for baseball I'd be more willing to dish out some cash.

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

Baseball used to be Americas favorite past time. For that reason alone, it's important for a College to have a team. Yes right now we cant afford it, but behind the Stadium this should be top priority for our athletics as well as the University. I believe there would be a great showing for baseball. Think about it, this is Denton, there is nothing to do in the summer time. If we had baseball this would draw a lot of fans. Also consider that we dont have a baseball team around this area that people from Denton are willing to drive to go see. Maybe the Rangers, but that might change if we had a team and played some solid competition that people have heard of.

Soccer never was or will be Americas past time.

[KRAM1]

I agree that soccer never has...don't know about that "never will be" part...NEVER is such a long time....BUT, I do know that baseball is a "WAS".....Football is the now "IS" as an American pastime. Baseball is just "pasttime"!

[Mean Green 93-98]

Well, I can't comment on whether we would or would not be able to fund a baseball team + another women's sport. But if we can't, we might as well snuggle ourselves in tight in the Sun Belt for the long haul. We are going to have a very difficult time moving up without a baseball team. And a soccer program couldn't come lose to compensating.

[GreenBat]

This arguement is giving me tired head!!! There are those who want men's soccer and those who want baseball. The University needs $$$MONEY$$$ to add any sports. We as alumni, me included, must pry open our wallets if we EVER want NT to amount to anything in athletics. It does not good to argue about what sport to add. The school cannot afford to add either sport right now. NT needs to fund and build it's football stadium before it even thinks about funding another men's sport, because we would need to add another women's sport to stay up with Title 9.

Please let this F'n thread die until NT opens it's new football stadium.

[Mean Green 93-98]

I don't understand why people whine and moan about subjects about which we really can't make a difference being discussed on a forum. We are really not going to make a difference with recruiting by the things we discuss on this forum, but we talk about recruits all the time. As far as I can tell, this forum is largely a place to express one's opinions. If you don't feel like reading some of those opinions, don't.

[KRAM1]

Because it's fun! GOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL!!!

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

Soooo what youre saying is that it would bring in more fans than our Basketball games?? Each city is different. Denton is a lower income city where people look for cheap entertainment in a quality venue (so this excludes Fouts football games). That is why people would come to watch baseball. Dentonites have to drive at least 30 minutes to watch a baseball game right now. Rangers is an hour plus drive, they have no ties to Frisco or Tcu so why go to those games?

There is more to adding Baseball than drawing fans. Its about having a well rounded athletic department.

[FirefightnRick]

But I want a baseball team, so it shall be.

Rick

[KRAM1]

So, all you baseball folks...why not "put up or shut up" with some cash? Some cold hard $$$$$$ will do wonders for your cause. Why not start your own "UNT BASEBALL FOUNDATION" and endow a bunch of scholarships and set some $$$$ aside for field maintenance and such? I'm not kidding...if you think baseball is such a great need for UNT, do something about it yourself...I know you can't get by the Title IX CRAP, but endowing the scholarships could go a long way in making baseball happen at UNT. It could happen sooner than you might think if you actually get behind it. But, no way it averages a fan base the size of even UNT's basketball average attendance. You folks are dreaming if you think UNT baseball will become Denton's favorite family sporting event. How many fans do the Outlaws average?????? That's fun baseball...and some good college baseball too, but the fans...all those "low income" Denton fans you describe sure aren't filling the stands. Too bad...it's fun, but tells me baseball is not a "big deal" any longer. Hey, I would attend UNT Baseball games...it's UNT...but, I don't think you would have to "get there early" to get a seat anytime in the near future.

Anyone up for starting an endowment for the baseball team at UNT? Do I hear the deafing sound of silance form the baseball folks, or is thast the sound of pocketbooks I hear opening?????

[UNTLifer]

TastyGreek and KRAM, soccer is a bigger blackhole than baseball ever thought about being. No attendance and horrendous travel over come fair attendance and a regional schedule.

Also, please don't use the Outlaws as an example. They've moved playing fields every year and are a bunch of kids that none, or few, of us have ties to.

A college baseball team will draw in Denton. If NT softball draws a couple 100 then baseball would attract a couple thousand. Plus, a baseball stadium can be rented out to high school teams for playoff series which would bring teams and fans of both teams to spend their dollars in Denton. Plus, if RV were smart he would hire one of two very successful college coaches that grew up in the Denton city leagues and played for DHS that have strong ties to the community, Tim Tadlock or Skipper Johnson.

I appreciate your love of soccer, but it wouldn't draw flies.

Edited July 3, 2007 by UNTLifer

[KRAM1]

Dream on "UNTLifer"...if you think UNT baseball would draw a "couple of thousand" paying (or non-paying for that matter) fans to each home game, you are smoking something that is still classified as illegal! A "couple of hundred" would even be a stretch...travel budget you say...baseball plays 30-40 plus games a season...lots of away games...even if they are "close" to home. I KNOW men's soccer is a LONG WAY OFF at UNT...if ever...that's the difference. Some of you guys think baseball is a "done deal" at UNT. Maybe so....not a problem for me...I'll be at some games myself...hey, it's UNT...I support UNT....but there will be NO outpouring of local fan support for UNT baseball. It will have a core of solid fans, some "friends of the players" fans and a few, a few local baseball fans...that's it. I spent two years at OSU in grad school, and they have a great baseball tradition....great stadium on campus too, and they did not average over 2000 fans per home game. Not many "locals" in the stands either even when Robin Ventura and Pete Incavilla were knocking them all over the place.....GOOD LUCK with that baseball thing UNTLifer...see you at the games, I'd better get there early...I'm sure it will be tough to find a seat with all the fans.

Hey, I've got an idea...let's build the new football stadium and see what happens with that BEFORE we worry about throwing money down the baseball sinkhole. OR...any other sport we currently do not have at UNT for that matter, and yes, that includes men's soccer!

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

Tasty, why dont you just factor into your average UNT home games to get a better picture. We cannot be riding someone elses school spirit and passing it off as our gain. I do not have the time to do this or else I would.

I completely agree with Lifer. Denton will come to watch baseball, and whether or not you like it they are in the process of getting a team together. Maybe 25% of the other conference teams dont have a baseball team...but 75% DO.

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

Dream on "UNTLifer"...if you think UNT baseball would draw a "couple of thousand" paying (or non-paying for that matter) fans to each home game, you are smoking something that is still classified as illegal! A "couple of hundred" would even be a stretch...travel budget you say...baseball plays 30-40 plus games a season...lots of away games...even if they are "close" to home. I KNOW men's soccer is a LONG WAY OFF at UNT...if ever...that's the difference. Some of you guys think baseball is a "done deal" at UNT. Maybe so....not a problem for me...I'll be at some games myself...hey, it's UNT...I support UNT....but there will be NO outpouring of local fan support for UNT baseball. It will have a core of solid fans, some "friends of the players" fans and a few, a few local baseball fans...that's it. I spent two years at OSU in grad school, and they have a great baseball tradition....great stadium on campus too, and they did not average over 2000 fans per home game. Not many "locals" in the stands either even when Robin Ventura and Pete Incavilla were knocking them all over the place.....GOOD LUCK with that baseball thing UNTLifer...see you at the games, I'd better get there early...I'm sure it will be tough to find a seat with all the fans.

Hey, I've got an idea...let's build the new football stadium and see what happens with that BEFORE we worry about throwing money down the baseball sinkhole. OR...any other sport we currently do not have at UNT for that matter, and yes, that includes men's soccer!

I dont understand your post or why you're arguing with everyone on here about this. I have a better idea, when we get a baseball team why dont you grab some of your friends and go watch them. You win the argument!

Case closed.

[UNTLifer]

Dream on "UNTLifer"...if you think UNT baseball would draw a "couple of thousand" paying (or non-paying for that matter) fans to each home game, you are smoking something that is still classified as illegal! A "couple of hundred" would even be a stretch...travel budget you say...baseball plays 30-40 plus games a season...lots of away games...even if they are "close" to home. I KNOW men's soccer is a LONG WAY OFF at UNT...if ever...that's the difference. Some of you guys think baseball is a "done deal" at UNT. Maybe so....not a problem for me...I'll be at some games myself...hey, it's UNT...I support UNT....but there will be NO outpouring of local fan support for UNT baseball. It will have a core of solid fans, some "friends of the players" fans and a few, a few local baseball fans...that's it. I spent two years at OSU in grad school, and they have a great baseball tradition....great stadium on campus too, and they did not average over 2000 fans per home game. Not many "locals" in the stands either even when Robin Ventura and Pete Incavilla were knocking them all over the place.....GOOD LUCK with that baseball thing UNTLifer...see you at the games, I'd better get there early...I'm sure it will be tough to find a seat with all the fans.

Hey, I've got an idea...let's build the new football stadium and see what happens with that BEFORE we worry about throwing money down the baseball sinkhole. OR...any other sport we currently do not have at UNT for that matter, and yes, that includes men's soccer!

I'm not saying, nor have I ever, that NT should field a team right now. The football stadium is the most important addition to athletics at this time, and nothing should be done until this facility is funded.

What I am saying is baseball should be added at the right time, especially if the choice is baseball or men's soccer. I am a native of Denton, and yes Denton will support baseball. Your concern about funding the program is moot considering Mr. Goldfield has already offered to underwrite the entire program. BTW, he has the cash to back up his offer.

Your "blanket statement" regarding "a core of solid fans, "friends of the players" fans and a few, a few local baseball fans...that's it." is baseless and ridiculous. Neither one of us knows how many fans would attend NT baseball games, but I do know that a baseball team and its facilities will draw more fans and bring more revenue than soccer, which would be lucky to have 100 fans and would generate $0.

[GreenBat]

Please let this F'n thread die until NT opens it's new football stadium.

[KRAM1]

I'm with Greenbat now...let this thread die UNTIL we have a new football stadium. So, can we get something going on the stadium in the way of concrete progress or will we be left to wonder endlessly in the stadium wilderness? Rick V. .... time to say a little something perhaps... the animals are restless!

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

It is also important to note that the population in DFW is 6Million in comparison to your 100K cities you had. Also important to note that the majority of the UNT Alumni lives in that population.

Truth is, I nor anyone, knows what baseball will bring in in Denton. I personally feel that it will show well. I do not think it will show better than basketball if our team continues to win, but if they dont continue, then baseball will pick up. I think that we could average easily 600-1000 fans a game.

I just talked to RV and he said he is delaying construction on the football stadium until we get a baseball team.

Not really

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

Top 50 per espn

2006 Baseball Home Attendance Leaders

Division I

AVERAGE HOME ATTENDANCE

Team Dates Att Avg

1. LSU 36 263,534 7,320

2. Arkansas 28 199,450 7,123

3. Mississippi St. 28 193,703 6,918

4. Texas 30 161,392 5,380

5. Nebraska 24 122,216 5,092

6. Mississippi 36 174,756 4,854

7. Clemson 39 184,946 4,742

8. Alabama 38 173,450 4,564

9. Texas A&M 31 138,805 4,478

10. Florida St. 36 158,055 4,390

11. Rice 43 180,306 4,193

12. South Carolina 35 133,652 3,819

13. Wichita St. 35 131,279 3,751

14. Florida 35 123,022 3,515

15. Southern Miss. 33 109,200 3,309

16. Baylor 32 96,427 3,013

17. Tulane 37 106,862 2,888

18. East Caro. 36 102,475 2,847

19. Houston 29 79,246 2,733

20. Hawaii 31 82,744 2,669

21. Texas Tech 31 80,786 2,606

22. Notre Dame 23 57,624 2,505

23. Arizona St. 32 79,239 2,476

24. Auburn 33 80,699 2,445

25. Creighton 18 42,197 2,344

26. Ohio St. 18 40,677 2,260

27. Cal St. Fullerton 34 73,337 2,157

28. La.-Lafayette 30 62,736 2,091

29. Georgia 39 80,060 2,053

30. Fresno St. 39 75,355 1,932

31. Stanford 28 51,366 1,835

32. Miami (Fla.) 33 60,017 1,819

33. Georgia Tech 37 66,097 1,786

34. Tennessee 31 52,979 1,709

35. Kentucky 35 57,707 1,649

36. Oregon St. 30 49,285 1,643

37. Virginia 36 56,755 1,577

38. TCU 26 40,158 1,545

39. Vanderbilt 34 51,428 1,513

40. Citadel 37 53,320 1,441

41. Oklahoma St. 29 40,830 1,408

42. Stetson 31 40,602 1,310

43. Brigham Young 20 26,058 1,303

44. Long Beach St. 26 33,781 1,299

45. North Carolina 41 52,907 1,290

46. Oklahoma 31 39,947 1,289

47. Ga. Southern 27 33,152 1,228

48. Miami (Ohio) 14 16,885 1,206

49. Minnesota 22 26,154 1,189

50. North Carolina St. 31 36,414 1,175

Look at UT. They averaged over 5K fans and they have the Round Rock Express about 30 miles away.

[Mean Green 93-98]

Does the Goldfields' offer still stand?

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

It's baseball, not football....what do you want 30K at a baseball game? It's not going to happen.

Because they have no ties to them. They do have ties to their alma mater. So I can have it both ways.

They will if they went there.

Maybe a baseball team???

My point was in that showing you picked the lowest team attendance in the top 50. Did you notice this:

28. La.-Lafayette 30 62,736 2,091

Obviously you have never played baseball and probably an organized sport period. If so you would realize how many people 1500 is. For baseball that is a nice showing.

You mean like football and basketball? Dont forget these dont put much of a dent in the 'annual operating budget' either. Maybe we should drop them too and become a purely academic school.