O U C H - Stewart Mandel Ranks The Conferences

[MeanGreen61]

11) Sun Belt: How the members of this conference continue to remain at the I-A level is one of the great mysteries of our time.

Stewart mandel Mail Bag(Scroll down)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ...lbag/index.html

[Green to the Bone]

In my view, it's more blather from a windbag, richly deserving of being ignored.

[Travis]

I don't see how the Pac-10 can be the number two conference in the nation.

[Green Means Go!]

There's one way to shut up criticism like this: START WINNING OOC GAMES.

Troy gave us some momentum in that regard with the win over Rice in the bowl. Naturally, I'm not saying that we should beat an OU or Arkansas. But, it sure would be a step in the right direction to beat a team like Navy this year. (and that of course goes for our conference mates, too---win some decent OOC games).

It worked for the MAC....it can work for us.

[ColoradoEagle]

Considering how poor the MAC and CUSA are as well, I don't really see why they got off easily. In general I agree with the sentiment, but it's not limited to this conference.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

11) Sun Belt: How the members of this conference continue to remain at the I-A level is one of the great mysteries of our time.

Stewart mandel Mail Bag(Scroll down)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ...lbag/index.html

I can't tell you how many times I have asked myself the very same thing. If you really, seriously look at the teams in the conference in the attendence and competitiveness over the years, you can't help but ask the same question.

[Smitty]

Considering how poor the MAC and CUSA are as well, I don't really see why they got off easily. In general I agree with the sentiment, but it's not limited to this conference.

Because those conferences have some history, but the Sun Belt has none. Every Top-25 caliber team views a game against the Sun Belt as an automatic win because we've given them no reason to think differently.

I've said it before but it needs repeating: the only way to change the image of North Texas and the Sun Belt is to find some big shots and crack their freakin' skulls. Then repeat.

Respect is earned, not given, and it is earned on the scoreboard and no where else.

[Green to the Bone]

At the risk of reinforcing my reputation as Mr. Boring Factual, here are the facts that show that Mr. Mandel is pathetically ignorant on the subject he covers:

1. Although the term is still widely used, there is no such thing as Division I-A anymore. The NCAA designation for major Division I football programs, formerly known as Division I-A, is Division I Football Bowl Subdivision. Smaller programs, formerly designated Division I-AA, are now Division I Football Championship Subdivision programs. The Sun Belt is a Division I Football Bowl Subdivision conference. The names may be silly, but those are the names.

2. The membership criteria for Division I overall are:

-- At least seven men's sports and seven women's (or six men's and eight women's);

-- At least two team sports for each gender;

-- Sports other than football must play 100 percent of the minimum required number of games in their sport, and at least 50 percent of the games above the minimum number, against other D-I schools;

-- Men's and women's basketball may play no more than two non-Division I schools, and men must play one-third of their games at home;

-- Minimum and maximum financial aid levels for athletes, varying by sport.

3. In addition to the overall Division I membership criteria, the only membership criterion for the Division I Football Bowl Subdivision is as follows:

-- 15,000 paid or actual attendance per home game, averaged over rolling two-year periods.

Those are all the criteria. You can read them a thousand times and not find a single word to justify Mandel's statement. There are no criteria for quality of opponents, no won-lost criteria, none dealing with numbers or quality of bowl bids, none specifying OOC records, none on strength comparisons with other conferences, none on coaches' salaries, ratings of recruits, sizes of middle linebackers, none at all.

It's attendance, period. Attendance is audited. If Mandel is implying that they don't meet that criterion, he ought to say so plainly and present some evidence of cheating.

Mandel can argue all day long that it's a weak conference. No argument here. But his statement about them not being legit "D I-A" schools is factually disprovable, condescending, and idiotic.

[LongJim]

I've said it before but it needs repeating: the only way to change the image of North Texas and the Sun Belt is to find some big shots and crack their freakin' skulls. Then repeat.

Respect is earned, not given, and it is earned on the scoreboard and no where else.

Can't say it much better than that. Having said that, I believe the quality of SBC play--overall--has dramatically improved from even 2 years ago. Troy, MTSU, and Arky St have all had some pretty good wins, and have played some good football. If it keeps in that direction, there's no reason the SBC can't catch up to, and pass, the CUSA's of the world in a few years in terms of quality of play. No question the OOC games are the proving ground, though.

[Quoner]

It's attendance, period. Attendance is audited. If Mandel is implying that they don't meet that criterion, he ought to say so plainly and present some evidence of cheating.

Mandel can argue all day long that it's a weak conference. No argument here. But his statement about them not being legit "D I-A" schools is factually disprovable, condescending, and idiotic.

You should send that to him, because your response comes across really well-thought out and I bet would open the eyes of fans of other colleges around the country. You definitely took the point as intended and showed Stewart a thing or too.

All you winning equals respect people are just crazy.

[Green to the Bone]

You should send that to him, because your response comes across really well-thought out and I bet would open the eyes of fans of other colleges around the country. You definitely took the point as intended and showed Stewart a thing or too.

All you winning equals respect people are just crazy.

Hilarious.

[DeepGreen]

He loses all credibility by putting the Pac 10 and Big East ahead of the Big 12. Especially the Big East which includes Cincinatti and South freakin Florida.

[Quoner]

He loses all credibility by putting the Pac 10 and Big East ahead of the Big 12. Especially the Big East which includes Cincinatti and South freakin Florida.

How? The Big 12 failed to beat a single OOC opponent in the top 25 last year and labored to beat Minnesota and Iowa in bowl games. The Big 12 was a toilet bowl last year within the national picture and the Big East had 3 top 10 teams with Louisville and WVU returning most of their talent. I don't recall a Pac 10 school losing to a Big 12 school either - unless you count that Oregon thing no one likes to talk about...

I thought he laid out his case pretty well.

[Travis]

How? The Big 12 failed to beat a single OOC opponent in the top 25 last year and labored to beat Minnesota and Iowa in bowl games. The Big 12 was a toilet bowl last year within the national picture and the Big East had 3 top 10 teams with Louisville and WVU returning most of their talent. I don't recall a Pac 10 school losing to a Big 12 school either - unless you count that Oregon thing no one likes to talk about...

I thought he laid out his case pretty well.

I agree that the big 12 doesn't belong above those schools too. I just don't see them being a #2 conference in the nation. I think the Big East deserves that spot. Hell, i think big 10 is above the pac 10 in my opinion.

[CMJ]

Last years conference records in Bowl games.

Conference Schools Record Percentage

Big East (5) Cin,Lou,Rut,USF,WV 5-0 1.000

MWC (4) BYU,NM,TCU,Utah 3-1 .750

WAC (4) BSU,Haw,Nev,SJS 3-1 .750

SEC (9) Ark,Ala,Aub,Fla,Ga,Ky,LSU,Ten,SC 6-3 .666

ACC (8) BC,Clem,FSU,GT,Mary,Mia,VT,WF 4-4 .500

Pac-10 (6) ASU,Cal,Ore,OSU,UCLA,USC 3-3 .500

Sun Belt (2) M.Tenn,Troy 1-1 .500

Big 12 (8) KSt,Mis,Neb,OU,OSU,Tex,TexA&M,TT 3-5 .375

Big Ten (7) Iowa,Mich,Minn,OSU,PSU,Pur,Wis 2-5 .286

MAC (4) CMich,NIU,Ohio,WMich 1-3 .250

C-USA (5) EC,Hou,Rice,SMiss,Tul 1-4 .200

Independents (2) Navy,ND 0-2 .000

Edited May 17, 2007 by CMJ

[DeepGreen]

How? The Big 12 failed to beat a single OOC opponent in the top 25 last year and labored to beat Minnesota and Iowa in bowl games. The Big 12 was a toilet bowl last year within the national picture and the Big East had 3 top 10 teams with Louisville and WVU returning most of their talent. I don't recall a Pac 10 school losing to a Big 12 school either - unless you count that Oregon thing no one likes to talk about...

I thought he laid out his case pretty well.

You really expect me to research this stuff? Forget it. This is just my overall feelings, using more than just last season to rank the conferences.

Edited May 18, 2007 by DeepGreen

[Quoner]

You really expect me to research this stuff? Forget it. This is just my overall feelings, using more than just last season to rank the conferences.

I just figured someone who would attack a journalist's "credibility" (your words, not mine) would maybe be interested in the facts.

I don't expect you to research it - I can verify both statements right now. Actually, if you had looked, you could have seen that OU beat Washington pretty good. Boy would my face have been red...

The guy did a poll based on the conferences right now going into this season and posted his thoughts. You got mad because you didn't understand it and someone called you on it and swore to protect the Sun Belt against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

I just like the debate of people ranking conferences - in fact, I'll even post my list and you can maybe post yours it will be fun - maybe even more fun that acting righteously indignant.

My list entering 2007-2008 (rip it apart - that is what it is for)

1. SEC (been the best for awhile...)

2. Pac-10 (as much as I hate them, the guy is right, these are a bunch of pretty good teams)

3. Big 10 (I hate the Big 10, but they always win until bowl season)

4. ACC (A&M vs. Miami will be too pretty good teams from last year in each conference. It will also probably be a blowout)

5. Big East (a lot of good teams - with only a two having a chance to be great)

6. Big 12 (would love to be wrong, but they just didn't beat anyone)

7. MWC

8. WAC

9. C-USA

10. MAC

11. Sun Belt (should pass the MAC in the next 3 years if everyone stays the course)

[DeepGreen]

Easy Quoner. I said my reaction was more "seat of the pants" without research. I'm not knocking the guy. Are we basing the rankings for 2007 solely on what happened in 2006? Is this post or pre-season rankings? I'm assuming we are talking football only. Right? Anyway, here's mine -

1. SEC

2. Big 10

3. Pac 10

4. Big 12

5. ACC

6. Big East

7. MWC

8. WAC

9. CUSA

10. MAC

11. Sun Belt

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

I don't disagree that his ranking of the conferences is likely the same as mine. What I do disagree on is the snide remark about the validity of the Sun Belt even being a 1-A conference. Totally uncalled for.

I know that we are #11; probably most of the posters on this board agree that we are #11. I have a sneaky feeling that after this year we will be #10. We passed the MAC in average attendance last year and I believe that we could easily do that this coming year in team rankings.

Last year we had four teams ranked above 99. ULM and Fla. Atlantic were barely over and North Texas and Fla. International were further down (FIU was dead last). The MAC didn't fare much better and this year they add Temple, who only won one game last year. I look for no one except possibly FIU to be ranked that low (above 99) this year.

So, move over MAC. Let's see if Mandel degrades the MAC next year if they fall to 11th.

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

Actually, I did research this and posted my findings back on May 4.

1. SEC

2. Big East

3. Pac 10

4. Big 10

5. ACC

5. Big XII

7. MWC

8. WAC

9. CUSA

10. MAC

11. SBC

[MeanGreen61]

Actually the Howell rating system had the Sun Belt passing the MAC in 2004, then we dropped back in 2005.

LINK - Scroll down to bottom for Conference ratings

http://www.jhowell.net/cf/cf2004.htm