Sbc Vs. Cusa

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

The best example would be the old Southwest Conference which went from total obscurity to the national arena, starting in the late 30's and periodically after that.

Another, actually would have been the old Big 8, which was a do-nothing conference until the 1950's under OU and even then it was called "OU and the Seven Dwarfs" until Nebraska, Colorado and a few others stepped up to the plate.

Any more recent examples? College football has changed a lot since the 50's.

[eppy4life]

I understand that it takes awhile to build a conference. So, is everyone just content with growing in this thing for the next half century?

[emmitt01]

Any more recent examples? College football has changed a lot since the 50's.

The MAC. Up until about 10 years ago I don't think anyone would have put the MAC consistently on par with CUSA or the WAC. Then, lo and behold, Marshall blows up. Then Toledo gets better. Then Miami of Ohio. Then Central Michigan. Ohio was 9-5 last year. Etc. Granted, Marshall left for CUSA but I'm sure neither Marshall nor the best team in CUSA wanted to line up against Central Michigan last year in a bowl. Outside of Boise, who else in the WAC was the star of last season? Am I saying the MAC has passed CUSA or the WAC? No. Am I saying that it's abso-freaking-ludicrous to think that if the teams in a conference help to build up the product that it won't inevitably get better? Yes. Am I saying we have teams in established recruiting hotbeds and the potential to get much better? Yes.

[Baby Arm!]

The MAC. Up until about 10 years ago I don't think anyone would have put the MAC consistently on par with CUSA or the WAC. Then, lo and behold, Marshall blows up. Then Toledo gets better. Then Miami of Ohio. Then Central Michigan. Ohio was 9-5 last year. Etc. Granted, Marshall left for CUSA but I'm sure neither Marshall nor the best team in CUSA wanted to line up against Central Michigan last year in a bowl. Outside of Boise, who else in the WAC was the star of last season? Am I saying the MAC has passed CUSA or the WAC? No. Am I saying that it's abso-freaking-ludicrous to think that if the teams in a conference help to build up the product that it won't inevitably get better? Yes. Am I saying we have teams in established recruiting hotbeds and the potential to get much better? Yes.

How about another example the WAC. You may be too young to remember but there was a time when the WAC was viewed much the same as the present day SBC. The Wac was a collection of far west teams whose teams would leave for a better confernece. (Arizona and Arizona St. left to join the PAC 8)

In the 80's When BYU went undefeated in the 80's there was SERIOUS debate if they deserved the National Championship becuase there conference competition was so weak. If any other team that year had gond undefeated, BYU would have been passed over.

If you go back not to long ago to the late 80's and asked ANYONE which was the better, stronger conference, WAC vs Southwest Conference? No one, I mean NO ONE would pick the WAC over the jaugernaut SWC. But less than a decade later the WAC was expanding and the SWC was defunct.

Second example, CUSA. When the SWC broke up SMU, TCU, and RICE joined the WAC. Houston was invited to join as well but they said no thanks, they were going to go with a newly founded conference called CUSA. At the time CUSA was looked at like a joke. It was geographically far flung, none of the schools had any history or rivalry between them. It was viewed as an dicey experiment that was doomed to fail.... Look at it now.

[stebo]

There are other conferences tha have helped teams move up. UCF, USF, and Marshall were all IAA back when we were. So was Boise State... so was Idaho and a bunch of our Big West foes. Why do we think that we are soooo superior to other teams in the Belt? Most of them have been IA longer then us. UL has never been IAA. ULM was like La Tech and played as an Indy. ASU played as an Indy, in the Big West, back as an Indy, back in the Big West, then to the Belt. The Belt saved our freaking football program. We would probably not have a football team at the IA level if the Belt had not been born.

I can't go into the lengths of this discussion (late for work); but we are not the "jump off" conference right now - tha would be the WAC. Their member are vocally voicing their desire to leave. Three members of the Belt openly turned down an invite to the WAC just a couple of years ago. Why is moving up from IAA a bad thing? It shows that your school has made a serious financial commitment to compete at the next level. Look at the budgets and attendances of those teams in the MAC and even some of our old conference mates in the Big WAC... they are jus kind of hanging out to get money games. FIU and FAU have the two largest budgets in the Belt. They aren't winning yet but if they keep shoving money at it, they will win. FIU is building a brand new stadium this year, they aren't going to spend all that money and then drop football. Who would look at leaving the Belt? Well - some teams would leave for CUSA (North Texas, ASU, UL, etc...) - but I don't think anyone is trying to do so. The WAC has teams openly trying to pursue the MWC in the media. One of the first things that the Boise president did after winning the Fiesta Bowl was aproach the MWC about membership.

Is the Belt ideal? Probably not... but it is a much better fit for N Texas then the WAC and CUSA doesn't have a spot open. We would look silly in the MWC or the MAC - so we are in the Belt. Our choice is to ether 1) Pout about it and complain or 2) Make the best of it and enjoy the new rivalries. Bitching about it makes no sense.

[BonfireBrian]

There are other conferences tha have helped teams move up. UCF, USF, and Marshall were all IAA back when we were. So was Boise State... so was Idaho and a bunch of our Big West foes. Why do we think that we are soooo superior to other teams in the Belt? Most of them have been IA longer then us. UL has never been IAA. ULM was like La Tech and played as an Indy. ASU played as an Indy, in the Big West, back as an Indy, back in the Big West, then to the Belt. The Belt saved our freaking football program. We would probably not have a football team at the IA level if the Belt had not been born.

I can't go into the lengths of this discussion (late for work); but we are not the "jump off" conference right now - tha would be the WAC. Their member are vocally voicing their desire to leave. Three members of the Belt openly turned down an invite to the WAC just a couple of years ago. Why is moving up from IAA a bad thing? It shows that your school has made a serious financial commitment to compete at the next level. Look at the budgets and attendances of those teams in the MAC and even some of our old conference mates in the Big WAC... they are jus kind of hanging out to get money games. FIU and FAU have the two largest budgets in the Belt. They aren't winning yet but if they keep shoving money at it, they will win. FIU is building a brand new stadium this year, they aren't going to spend all that money and then drop football. Who would look at leaving the Belt? Well - some teams would leave for CUSA (North Texas, ASU, UL, etc...) - but I don't think anyone is trying to do so. The WAC has teams openly trying to pursue the MWC in the media. One of the first things that the Boise president did after winning the Fiesta Bowl was aproach the MWC about membership.

Is the Belt ideal? Probably not... but it is a much better fit for N Texas then the WAC and CUSA doesn't have a spot open. We would look silly in the MWC or the MAC - so we are in the Belt. Our choice is to ether 1) Pout about it and complain or 2) Make the best of it and enjoy the new rivalries. Bitching about it makes no sense.

Good post, Stebo.

I agree. Let's build up the Belt and build up the rivalries with these teams. And.... don't forget, root for every Sun Belt team in every non-conference game. The more non-conference wins, the better.

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

Let's build up the Belt and build up the rivalries with these teams. And.... don't forget, root for every Sun Belt team in every non-conference game. The more non-conference wins, the better.

Well I can say you will be doing it with a half empty stadium. Because bottom line, these teams you call 'rivalries' are really not rivalries at all. And because a few people on GMG are excited about about this coming season (myself included) doesn't mean the rest of the real world fans are or will come to the games or would consider FIU, FAU...etc a 'rivalry'.

And these teams in the WAC that are 'voicing' their desire to get out of the WAC conference are doing so not because they feel the WAC is a dying conference but rather that they want to move on up to a better conference (unlike UNT in the Sunbelt). It's a process, a team wins their conference and a few out of conference games to show the world and the bigger, better conferences that they can now compete at the next level. Exactly why Boise went to the MWC about joining - if they didn't then I would think something was wrong with them because they have proven time and time again that they are ready for the next level. This is something that we too had proven, only we didn't capitalize on it, and here we are still.

Someone posted that the Sunbelt only has 8 schools, well we actually have 13 schools in our conference but only 8 of them have football teams...It seems that this conference is taking who ever they can get.

I do not think the MAC is much better than the SBC and obviously neither did Central Florida or Marshall "The University of Central Florida joined for football only in 2001, becoming the first football-only member in conference history. Marshall and UCF would leave after the 2004-05 academic year, both joining Conference USA in all sports" - Wikipedia

And CentralMichigan had a really weak schedule last year:

08/31 BC L 31-24

09/09 at #10 Michigan L 41-17

09/16 Akron W 24-21

09/23 at E Michigan W 24-17

09/30 at Kentucky L 45-36

10/07 at Toledo W 42-20

10/14 Ball St W 18-7

10/19 BGU W 31-14

11/04 at Temple W 42-26

11/10 W Michigan W 31-7

11/17 at N Illinois L 31-10

11/24 at Buffalo W 55-28

11/30 at Ohio W 31-10

12/26 vs M Tenn St W 31-14

[FirefightnRick]

Here's a $100 dollar bill sir. Yes sir, I do realize it's wrinkled, but it's yours, for free. What? You want me to unwrinkle it for you first before you'll accept it? Go figure?

Rick

Edited May 3, 2007 by FirefightnRick

[UNTLifer]

Well I can say you will be doing it with a half empty stadium. Because bottom line, these teams you call 'rivalries' are really not rivalries at all. And because a few people on GMG are excited about about this coming season (myself included) doesn't mean the rest of the real world fans are or will come to the games or would consider FIU, FAU...etc a 'rivalry'.

Really? I seem to recall a home game a couple of years ago against a New Mexico State team that "the rest of the real world fans" don't really care about where we had 20,000 plus. We need to get to a point where are alumni, students and fans come to the games to see NT play. It shouldn't matter who the opponent is.

And these teams in the WAC that are 'voicing' their desire to get out of the WAC conference are doing so not because they feel the WAC is a dying conference but rather that they want to move on up to a better conference (unlike UNT in the Sunbelt).

Really? Are you sure they don't consider the WAC a dying conference? Well, maybe not dying, but it is geographically out of sorts and requires a whack load of cash to travel in.

Someone posted that the Sunbelt only has 8 schools, well we actually have 13 schools in our conference but only 8 of them have football teams...It seems that this conference is taking who ever they can get.

You do realize that the Sun Belt is a 30 year old conference that only added football in 2001, don't you? That would explain the South Alabama's and UALR's being in the conference while not offering football. I believe the SBC is being geographically selective in adding members while requiring they play D1A football.

ULM was like La Tech and played as an Indy.

Stebo, you do realize that ULM played against us in the Southland conference don't you?

[FirefightnRick]

Stebo, you do realize that ULM played against us in the Southland conference don't you?

He means when we both first moved up to 1-A. We then got into the Big West and ULM had to remain Indy.

Rick

[emmitt01]

Hello, my name is DaddyDumpalot.

I'd like to bitch and moan about anything and everything that North Texas 1)can't control 2)has already given thought to and tried to rectify and 3)should be commended for already making strides in. While I'm at it I will off NO plausible solutions because it's easier to complain about something than to fix it.

I don't ever have to give any ground because I'm arguing against a standard that I personally made up and North Texas could never achieve because I've painted the school into a corner with my circular logic.

Anyone/everyone who disagrees with me will be painted as being a part of the "gomeangreen.com" club who stands alone on all issues and doesn't have a finger on the pulse of the "real world". Concrete facts or even solid conjecture to the contrary of what I have to say will be summarily disregarded and I will respond to only the portions of others' posts that suit my rebuttal.

Thank you, try the steak and remember to tip your waitresses. I'll be here all week.

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

Hello, my name is DaddyDumpalot.

Its DumpSalot...but you may call me Daddy.

I'm Emmitt,

I'm a 50 yr old alumni of UNT and being so old I don't like a lot of change. I enjoy going to all the events I can make and just hope UNT succeeds in what it does for nothing more than to make me feel good. I dont care about the rest of the fans or the current students and what they want either. I really don't want the school to take off or go somewhere big, I gave that up years ago. I dont even dream of that sort of thing anymore. I really enjoy commenting and picking out other people on GMG since I have been on here for such a long time and have way more little green boxes than anyone else. I really don't care what people think or view because what I say is most important and I like to paint pretty little pictures about how great the Sunbelt is and how things aren't here at NT. When someone doesn't view things the same way as me I just want to make them feel stupid until they eventually adopt my ideas. And yes if you disagree with my friends and me on GMG you will be called out for complaining. But what I love best is to post little stupid comments and pretend that I am the person I'm making fun of.

[Censored by Laurie]

Would somebody please explain Denver's place in the Sun Belt? I realize they had a solid basketball team a few years ago...but they have neither a football nor a baseball team...add to that I don't believe that any other SBC program has hockey nor lacrosse.

[CMJ]

Its DumpSalot...but you may call me Daddy.

I'm Emmitt,

I'm a 50 yr old alumni of UNT and being so old I don't like a lot of change. I enjoy going to all the events I can make and just hope UNT succeeds in what it does for nothing more than to make me feel good. I dont care about the rest of the fans or the current students and what they want either. I really don't want the school to take off or go somewhere big, I gave that up years ago. I dont even dream of that sort of thing anymore. I really enjoy commenting and picking out other people on GMG since I have been on here for such a long time and have way more little green boxes than anyone else. I really don't care what people think or view because what I say is most important and I like to paint pretty little pictures about how great the Sunbelt is and how things aren't here at NT. When someone doesn't view things the same way as me I just want to make them feel stupid until they eventually adopt my ideas. And yes if you disagree with my friends and me on GMG you will be called out for complaining. But what I love best is to post little stupid comments and pretend that I am the person I'm making fun of.

Now since that accomplished nothing at all

Emmitt is 28 moron.

[greenminer]

Its DumpSalot...but you may call me Daddy.

I'm Emmitt,

I'm a 50 yr old alumni of UNT and being so old I don't like a lot of change. I enjoy going to all the events I can make and just hope UNT succeeds in what it does for nothing more than to make me feel good. I dont care about the rest of the fans or the current students and what they want either. I really don't want the school to take off or go somewhere big, I gave that up years ago. I dont even dream of that sort of thing anymore. I really enjoy commenting and picking out other people on GMG since I have been on here for such a long time and have way more little green boxes than anyone else. I really don't care what people think or view because what I say is most important and I like to paint pretty little pictures about how great the Sunbelt is and how things aren't here at NT. When someone doesn't view things the same way as me I just want to make them feel stupid until they eventually adopt my ideas. And yes if you disagree with my friends and me on GMG you will be called out for complaining. But what I love best is to post little stupid comments and pretend that I am the person I'm making fun of.

Now since that accomplished nothing at all

You, sir, need to watch where you tread. While you take jabs at a person that you don't even know, you lose credibility with every blind swing.

I thought he was right on about this thread you've created, and I don't think I'm alone. Growing as an institution and athletic department means pointing out our faults and addressing them constructively; just as important is celebrating our successes. All you've done is put all our current negatives into a corner and spit on them in front of a crowd wearing UNT shirts. Not sure where you're going with this, but I'll be watching.

Moving on, SbL has a great question. Why is Denver in the Belt?

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

I thought he was right on about this thread you've created, and I don't think I'm alone. Growing as an institution and athletic department means pointing out our faults and addressing them constructively; just as important is celebrating our successes. All you've done is put all our current negatives into a corner and spit on them in front of a crowd wearing UNT shirts. Not sure where you're going with this, but I'll be watching.

First, I will say this: I apologized to Emmitt for posting that.

Second, I see no reason why ANYONE should post anything on any thread that is directly aimed at anyone. I started this thread to just present what our season looked like against the CUSA and it turned into a series of attacks on disagreeing parties. It has become clear that this is a pretty hot topic and one to be careful with.

My intention was not to step on any toes and I am sorry for the ones I have, but, when their is disagreement toes will sometimes be stepped on...even still that is no reason to direct anything at anyone.

I didn't join this forum to come agree with everyone on here. I joined to share my thoughts and opinions. I think people confuse disagreement with complaining. I am not complaining about our conference just sharing why I think we should seek to move on. Even in my dislike of the Sunbelt I agreed that this is where we are and will have to make due with what we've got, but with the caution that we shouldn't become content in this conference...a place I feel some have become.

Moving on...

[MeanGreen61]

Moving on...

Good idea.

[UNTFan23]

Would somebody please explain Denver's place in the Sun Belt? I realize they had a solid basketball team a few years ago...but they have neither a football nor a baseball team...add to that I don't believe that any other SBC program has hockey nor lacrosse.

Denver needs a home?

[GreenEddieNT]

Well, Daddydumpsalot mentioned in another thread that the SBC was the worst conference by far. I replied that he should look at the head to head record from last year between the SBC and CUSA, since the SBC had a winning record against them. Obviously that doesn't matter to him, as he just wants to dump on our conference home and not realize how far this conference has come in the last six years.

What makes the Sun Belt an absolute dump is the fact that it has the worst tv contract and the least number of bowl tie-ins. When someone shows us football/basketball tv contracts and bowls like CUSA has then people will stop wanting to be in CUSA and be happy in the Sun Belt. Then you have the small Sun Belt fan bases, the poverty-level athletic budgets, and the lack of revenue the Sun Belt brings in from basketball. The Sun Belt has way too many issues that need to be fixed before anyone will choose it over CUSA.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

---I hate my family, we ain't multi-millionaires, I wish we were richer. I am hoping that Bill Gates will adopt us and then we will get more respect I even have a crazy cousin in Denver that doesn't fit in. I keep hoping that that multi-millionaire will adopt us and we will be better off but it isn't happening. I guess I should just complain and whine about not being better off and getting no respect instead of just making the best of situation and seeing what I can do to help my situation. The old guys in my family are total morons and don't know anything. It is obvious that the young ones are the only ones with any common sense.

---It is is true that we once were very poor but now have improved to middle class or better but I want to be accepted by the super wealthy NOW ---not sometime in the distant future. Those above 25 just don't get it... I want super success.... and now. Maybe if I just left home asnd beat on the wealthy folks door they would accept me. My family just isn't improving fast enough to suit me. Patience is for the total morons...... even though our situation have improved a lot in recent years. They tell me I should actually learn the facts and history about the family but I see no need for that. Perhaps I should just dump them and head out on my on since I am obviously wiser since I have been an adult less than 10 years.

---LOL---

[GreenEddieNT]

---I hate my family, we ain't multi-millionaires, I wish we were richer. I am hoping that Bill Gates will adopt us and then we will get more respect I even have a crazy cousin in Denver that doesn't fit in. I keep hoping that that multi-millionaire will adopt us and we will be better off but it isn't happening. I guess I should just complain and whine about not being better off and getting no respect instead of just making the best of situation and seeing what I can do to help my situation. The old guys in my family are total morons and don't know anything. It is obvious that the young ones are the only ones with any common sense.

---It is is true that we once were very poor but now have improved to middle class or better but I want to be accepted by the super wealthy NOW ---not sometime in the distant future. Those above 25 just don't get it... I want super success.... and now. Maybe if I just left home asnd beat on the wealthy folks door they would accept me. My family just isn't improving fast enough to suit me. Patience is for the total morons...... even though our situation have improved a lot in recent years. They tell me I should actually learn the facts and history about the family but I see no need for that. Perhaps I should just dump them and head out on my on since I am obviously wiser since I have been an adult less than 10 years.

---LOL---

Well, sorry but money is at the root of it. It is going to be very hard for the Sun Belt to pass CUSA when they can afford better coaches and better facilities than we can. Not to mention the fact that they can promise their recruits more bowl opportunities and more tv games than Sun Belt schools can. For the Sun Belt to consistently handle CUSA on the field it needs to have the resources and amenities like CUSA has and right now it isn't even close to having them. Edited May 4, 2007 by GreenEddieNT

[stebo]

Maybe North Texas should try to win the Belt before leaving it behind... perhaps we could look at comng in 2nd, 3rd, or 4th, or 5th, or even 6th or 7th this year. Because for the last two years we have come in second to last and dead last. Oh yeah, we are FAR superior to those teams.

Edited May 4, 2007 by stebo

[FirefightnRick]

Well, sorry but money is at the root of it. It is going to be very hard for the Sun Belt to pass CUSA when they can afford better coaches and better facilities than we can. Not to mention the fact that they can promise their recruits more bowl opportunities and more tv games than Sun Belt schools can. For the Sun Belt to consistently handle CUSA on the field it needs to have the resources and amenities like CUSA has and right now it isn't even close to having them.

All of that which C-USA has over the Belt, yet they only won 3 out of 7 games against Belt teams in football this past season. Isn't it simply great to root on the underdog? I think so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rick

[GreenEddieNT]

All of that which C-USA has over the Belt, yet they only won 3 out of 7 games against Belt teams in football this past season. Isn't it simply great to root on the underdog? I think so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rick

Trend or aberration? My money's on the guys with more money.

[FirefightnRick]

Trend or aberration? My money's on the guys with more money.

So you lost your ass on OU in the Fiesta bowl then, right?

Rick