Sbc Vs. Cusa

[MCMLXXX]

Would somebody please explain Denver's place in the Sun Belt? I realize they had a solid basketball team a few years ago...but they have neither a football nor a baseball team...add to that I don't believe that any other SBC program has hockey nor lacrosse.

The commissioner that preceded Wright Waters got Denver voted in. He had a plan to move toward a Metro type conference with teams in large cities. The Sun Belt (not Sunbelt) Conference was still primarily a basketball conference at the time. Clearly the Sun Belt has moved in a differnt direction since their admission (i.e. the addition of football).

[MCMLXXX]

..It seems that this conference is taking who ever they can get.

The reason WKU was added in football is because they are already a conference member. Waters has specifically stated that the Sun Belt will not add any 1AA teams that are not already conference members. The SBC has reached 9 football teams and is not expanding. The only change that might be expected is that Denver may leave for a more regional conference.

[emmitt01]

I still haven't seen anyone explain why simply stating "we should aspire to be in something better than the Sun Belt" is

1)Breaking news like we (and the athletic department) didn't already know this

2)Constructive in any fashion given that we TRIED the last time CUSA had an opening

3)Relevant since we are in the Sun Belt and are just trying to make the best of what we've got to work with

To me this thread is like telling Ethiopian kids, "You're so pathetic. The rest of the world gets to eat and all you do is sit there and starve. Why don't you aspire to not be hungry?" Yep, they're starving on purpose genius!

[JesseMartin]

Wait...didn't Dickey and co. campaign that we not try to get into CUSA or WAC? I thought that was the deal when the big SBC realignment happened when USU, NMSU, and They-da-hoe left. Did we actually try for it and then save face in the press?

BTW, "Daddy" (ooh! slap me! what is up with your name anyway??)...you can't be "an alumni". Unless you have multiple personality disorder, much like I thought Emmitt had when the "I am North Texas" shirts first came out. (Really? You're ALL of NT? Cool.)

Brief Latin-to-English lesson:

1 male graduate-alumnus

many male graduates-alumni

1 female graduate-alumna

many female graduates-alumnae

many male and female (or maybe transgendered? not sure if there's any Latin or English reference for that one) graduates-alumni

Edited May 4, 2007 by JesseMartin

[greenminer]

Just to kind of turn the tables on this discussion, what would it take for fans (such as Daddy) to be happy in the Sun Belt and NOT want to move out? Feel free to chime in or add your own:

1) Would a more lucrative TV contract and/or more bowl tie-ins really satisfy you? really?...

2) What if in 10 years us/Troy/whatever are top-25, or even top-15 a la Boise State...wouldn't you want to hang around and rub shoulders with that?

3) Would the new stadium help?

I thought of this earlier today and believe that the issue really isn't the Belt, it's just that to some, we (as a conference) aren't progressing as fast/obviously as we'd like to. IMO, I don't care where we are affiliated, as long as their is a concerted, consistent effort (and hopefully successful) to move forward and strive to be at the top of the chain. Am I content right now? Yes, because we've made a new hire that shows lots of promise, we just had a spring game that was attended by FIVE THOUSAND people, and we are associated with programs that have PROVEN they want to take it to another level (Troy). Some argue that the 4-3 record vs. CUSA doesn't really mean anything. Sure, it can be spun both ways, but the bottom line is that it IS better than when the Belt started in '01, right?

I'll admit, I am getting a little antsy about the entire stadium situation. I'm not asking for some updates here. I'm waiting to hear it from RV's mouth. I don't even read stadium threads anymore (or helmet ones lol).

Now, in 5 years if we are still beating our chests about 4-3 records against CUSA, then we might have something to worry about.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Well, sorry but money is at the root of it. It is going to be very hard for the Sun Belt to pass CUSA when they can afford better coaches and better facilities than we can. Not to mention the fact that they can promise their recruits more bowl opportunities and more tv games than Sun Belt schools can. For the Sun Belt to consistently handle CUSA on the field it needs to have the resources and amenities like CUSA has and right now it isn't even close to having them.

---Well Uncle Bill (Gates) didn't have a pile of large money to start with but he had some good ideas and worked hard and became successful. Perhaps we can do the same. We should support our fellow family members and wish them success because their success helps us as well. It doesn't help us to to insult and run down those that are kin to us. In general most of our guys are larger than the most CUSA family members and I think ours has more potential once they can motivate their people and get outsiders attention. Let us hope some of our family members can get their act together and be very successful which can help the image of all of us.

---I don't think anyone is "beating their chest" about a 4-3 record against the CUSA but at least it indicates that they aren't much richer than our family -- if any. The only advantages they have to us is they are are closer to visit which reduces travel expenses and better known locally which would cause larger groups at our gatherings. I think our patience will be rewarded.. The SWC group has dissolved only relative recently ( to people who are my old age) and memories of that group is fading which is a good thing for us and UTEP who were never allowed into that club.

--- I did not realize we had such an intellectual group here... Now we are discussing Latin and the details of that language. I am even married to a Latin teacher and am picking up on details. I enjoy harassing her by pointing out Attila the Hun considered the Romans as barbarians. He had seen the brutal games at the Coliseum while in Rome after being invited to fight as a mercenary for Rome. (also to pay him off so he would leave them alone) By the way he regularly defeated the wealthy well known Roman armies despite the fact he had less resources..... we can do the same.

--- The Hun -- ( NT, MCMLXVI et MCMLXXV)

Re Ethopian (and others) kids--mentioned above: Their problem is all about exponential equations (I teach mathematics). They can't have 8-9-10 kids and expect to be able to feed, shelter and cloth people with that kind of rapid growth..... they can't improve food and other conditions that fast... after all the amount of land is not increasing. The USA did for a while when the west was open for expansion but we could not even do that anymore. The best way to help them is to help them get their population growth under control then conditions might improve. Apparently the Easter Islanders disappeared after they had used up all their trees due to over-population and had nothing left for shelter or heat or even make boats so they could fish or leave.

Edited May 4, 2007 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[eppy4life]

Here's a question I have: Is the reason our games (football & basketball) don't look like "real" games on television because our stadium and court don't have the resources to put cameras in the right spots or high enough? This may not make sense but to me our games look like high school games on television. Except when we play in New Orleans.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

--- Whoever broadcasts the games provides the TV cameras and staff to man them. It is also a bit difficult to place cameras to not show empty stands with the attendance that we have been having. I don't think North Texas gets much blame here.... whatever network and our lack of fans in attendance are responsible.

---The odd twist is that by broadcasting games locally to Dallas often cause some fans to just stay home and watch on TV and not attend the game in person...... that is why the NFL blacks out games that are not sold out. This will get very interesting once the new stadium in Arlington is constructed... very large and sellouts may get very scarce.... watch the people of Dallas scream then....meanwhile we in West Texas will get to watch. .

[shutter]

It is obvious. Our games look highschoolish because of the croud size. Enough said.

[Charlie NT 73]

Yes- past attendence would not be too good, like the Tues might game vs Troy-

Heck, by the time you get off work, fight traffic to Denton, it would be 730 or 8 by

the time you arrived. Most NT fans just stayed at home to watch the game.

Add in the fact NT was not a very good team at the time.

Now that Coach Dodge is here, all NT fans have the Mean Green pride back!

Coach Dodge and his staff will make this NT team a exciting team to see and

the staff will build a better NT team every year. Look at all the accomplishments

Coach Dodge has already brought to NT. Any success on the football field will spark

even more fan support- this NT pride thing will start snowballing quickly!

I really beleive NT will set new attendence records this comming season!

I expect us to pack the house at all of our home games, including the $muts game!

I want to see NT play first-no matter who the opponent is!

[UNTLifer]

Then you have the small Sun Belt fan bases, the poverty-level athletic budgets, and the lack of revenue the Sun Belt brings in from basketball. The Sun Belt has way too many issues that need to be fixed before anyone will choose it over CUSA.

The first two problems aren't the main responsibility of the Sun Belt, they are the problems of those that support these institutions. Don't like our fanbase or budget? Buy tickets, invite a friend and join the Mean Green Club.

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

Since there aren't that many teams involved in head-to-head play, the best way is to look at the overall strength of the conferences. Base on the consensus of 102 computer rankings, here is the average ranking of each conference nationally:

1. SEC 33.5

2. Big East 36.5

3. Pac 10 38.4

4. Big 10 49.1

5. ACC 49.9

Big XII 49.9

7. MWC 68.6

8. WAC 74.3

9. CUSA 77.9

10. MAC 88.2

11. SBC 94.5

I think that there are several reasons why the SBC lags behind the other conferences. Many of the SBC teams are new to Division 1A (and equivalents). We have the longest history and this will only be our 43rd year. Money is another factor. The SBC schools have the smallest average budgets as a conference. We are last in average attendance although I believe that we can catch the MAC in that category this coming year. Finally, CUSA and the other conferences have the better coaches. We are making progress on that front also with the replacement of sub-.500 coaches at North Texas and Florida International this past year and Middle Tennessee the year before.

Right now, our best chance of moving out of the tag of 'worst conference' is to try to pass the MAC in average attendance and national rankings. Of the four SBC teams ranked above 100, I look for North Texas and FAU to break that barrier this coming year. FIU will improve (that means get away from dead last) and we never know about ULM.

We're not out of the cellar yet but we're definitely getting better.

[JesseMartin]

43rd year? You mean consecutively, or what? Not sure where it is now, but when they had tons of trophies and stuff in the atrium of the Athletics building, there was a football from like 1922 or something when we beat Tennessee, who was ranked like #2 or something that year. Were we not part of the NCAA, or what?

[NT80]

43rd year? You mean consecutively, or what? Not sure where it is now, but when they had tons of trophies and stuff in the atrium of the Athletics building, there was a football from like 1922 or something when we beat Tennessee, who was ranked like #2 or something that year. Were we not part of the NCAA, or what?

I'm not sure what the 43rd year is in reference to. 2007 will be the SunBelt's 31st year as a sports conference, 7th year as a football conference, and NT's 94th year of playing college football. NT beat Tennessee in 1975, however they were not #2 then.

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

This will be our 43rd year in Division 1A (or its equivalent).

We were not a "Major" university until 1953. Before that time we were considered a minor university and our star players were known as "Little All-Americans". We were considered roughly the equivalent of Division II today. From 1953 until 1982 (30 years) we were in the top echelon of college football. Then in 1983 we dropped to Division 1-AA where we stayed until after the 1994 season. We again returned to the top in 1995 and have been there since (12 years). The thirty years before we dropped in classification plus the twelve years since total 42 years. This fall we begin our 43rd year in the top tier.

If you will go to www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/ScoresIndex.htm then click on Historical Scores - Alphabetically by Team Name you will find a complete listing of all of the teams that have been in Division 1-A and the years that they were so classified. You can then click on each team and it will give you their results for each year that they have been in 1A.

These are the number of years that each Sun Belt team has been in Division 1-A.

North Texas 42 years

Louisiana - Lafayette 34 years

Arkansas State - 25 years

Louisiana - Monroe 19 years

Middle Tennessee - 8 years

Troy - 6 years

FAU - 3 years

FIU - 3 years

ULL has the longest consecutive streak. All of their 34 years (since 1973) have been consecutive.

[FirefightnRick]

This will be our 43rd year in Division 1A (or its equivalent).

We were not a "Major" university until 1953. Before that time we were considered a minor university and our star players were known as "Little All-Americans". We were considered roughly the equivalent of Division II today. From 1953 until 1982 (30 years) we were in the top echelon of college football. Then in 1983 we dropped to Division 1-AA where we stayed until after the 1994 season. We again returned to the top in 1995 and have been there since (12 years). The thirty years before we dropped in classification plus the twelve years since total 42 years. This fall we begin our 43rd year in the top tier.

If you will go to www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/ScoresIndex.htm then click on Historical Scores - Alphabetically by Team Name you will find a complete listing of all of the teams that have been in Division 1-A and the years that they were so classified. You can then click on each team and it will give you their results for each year that they have been in 1A.

These are the number of years that each Sun Belt team has been in Division 1-A.

North Texas 42 years

Louisiana - Lafayette 34 years

Arkansas State - 25 years

Louisiana - Monroe 19 years

Middle Tennessee - 8 years

Troy - 6 years

FAU - 3 years

FIU - 3 years

ULL has the longest consecutive streak. All of their 34 years (since 1973) have been consecutive.

Interesting. To me it's hard to count the minor years as minor when your getting wins against major SOUNDING teams? And as a 1-AA program we got 8(9 if you want to count the '88 Texas game, and I think we should) wins against 1-A opponents. In only our seventh year overall(1919) we finally, after 3 previous trys got a win over TCU 14-6. TCU was considered Independant, but had been playing a SWC schedule since 1903. We regularly played several teams from the SWC afterwards. Other interesting wins from that point on: NT tied SMU in '32 and beat them in '33. Got a win over Florida and Houston in '47. Beat UTEP and Fresno St in '51. Beat UTEP, Memphis and Texas Tech in '52.

I wonder how many total teams were playing college football at the beginning of 20th century?

Something also of interest. I just now realized that during my years attending NT('87 thru '90) the Mean Green went 26-20 overall, with 11 of those games being against 1-A opponents, in which NT won 4 of the 11.

Rick

Edited May 5, 2007 by FirefightnRick

[eppy4life]

not letting this one leave.

[redallover]

As a UH grad, the loss at home to ULL was horrific. It goes to show that you can't take anyone for granted. We took Rice for granted and nearly lost that game. We didn't take Ok State, Tulsa or USM for granted and won.

The UNT/SMU game is going to be a doozy. I hope there are at least 5K UNT alums at the game, like UH had last year. Baylor, TCU and UTEP draw very well. With a strong crowd at Ford, you will really get the team playing inspired, like last year. Go Coogs, Ponies and GMG! My wife is a prof at SMU so they're my #2 school but my parents went to UNT. And, yes, the NMSU game in '02 was one of the top 10 games I've ever attended, including all my UH games.

[FirefightnRick]

Good to see you still posting over here Red.

Rick

[eppy4life]

yes, it is good to hear from you again.

[UNTLifer]

I hope there are at least 5K UNT alums at the game, like UH had last year.

I would be disappointed with this amount. I would expect us to fill at least half of their stadium considering it is only a half an hour from our campus.