The Big Picture: Top 10 List

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

He has proven it to me already. I saw our offense score more in one scrimmage this spring than in all scrimmages I watched combined last spring.

In the final fall scrimmage last year, before DD took us to Austin and lost 56-7, the "scout team" coached by a grad assistant beat the first units.

Speaking of that grad assistant, does anyone know what happened to Andy Brewster?

[UNTLifer]

Speaking of that grad assistant, does anyone know what happened to Andy Brewster?

Cisco JC

Thread

[MeanGreen61]

Sorry but we have played a team on that list at home 3 of the last 4 years just to avg. what 15,000.

Until the ticket sales is over $1,500,00 per year (we are currently at $300,000) the money games will be played at the OU, UT, LSU sites. UNT can not make money with home games

Beleive that RV made a comment last year that 25,000 attendance at a home game equals a money game.

[Mean'n'Green07]

I agree and...............

I CAN'T ADD MUCH MORE ON THIS SUBJECT THAN THE FOLLOWING:

Like an NT Ex told me just yesterday: Why do we feel a need and why don't we of UNT feel confident enough about who we are as a school "football-wise" that we feel we must put any letters or words on a UNT football helmet? Won't people know that when we are on TV (as we've been many times the last 7-8 years), that that is truly "North Texas" playing in that game? AND.............with special designed "eagle only" helmet that looks nothing like a Philly Eagle helmet?

For "flying worm" critics, in September of 1976 the most impressive appearance of about 17-19,000 Mean Green fans at UT's DKR Memorial Stadium were all watching a team all of whom were wearing that "flying worm" helmet; and a MG football team which came within minutes of putting a knot on the head of an Earl Campbell-led DKR-coached Longhorn football team. We lost that game 17-14 in the last minutes of the game with a long TD run by (who else?)..................... Mr. Earl Campbell.

Not many (especially UT Longhorn fans) left that stadium post-game making fun of those apple green unis' (which BTW is a color most of us would not want us to go back to in this era) and for certain no one was making fun of our alma mater's helmet logo, ie, what many now call the "flying worm" helmet which is a name I still to this day feel uncomfortable calling such, but guess the name we have to use so most on this board know we are talking about that particular UNT helmet. (I personally don't see any worm connection as it is------at least it doesn't look like any worm I've seen lately.

NO LETTERS/ NO NAMES ON A HELMET..........IS THAT COMMUNIST-LIKE OR WHAT? Nevertheless, many of our NT community thought a helmet w/o any letters or words on it was just downright cool for North Texas; in fact, was so cool that many in the DFW Metroplex bought much NT gear with the the Fry-era eagle all all that NT sports gear of that day. For what its worth (again)..............I didn't hear much about all this flying worm business until Hayden Fry left and a hardy handful of his NT-employed Denton detractors (none of whom are to this day in the College Football Hall of Fame) loved that name. Yet you would see the "F..... W..." all over the DFW Metroplex as you drove the interstates and highways and I don't recall SMU'er or TCU'ers making fun of that logo either (especially TCU'er whose football program that would never schedule a Fry-coached Mean Green football team were sucking hind teat as a football program back then).

Many across Texas and the Southwest knew that about the Fry-era eagle back then and the (at the time) fashionable apple green; but what most Texans (including my late Houston area dad who had always been a big DKR/Texas fan); anyway, even he knew something special was going on in Denton with that "North Texas" bunch with their going/growing program that many in our region began watching with interest its progress.

IMAGINE........... Can you only imagine had NT been in an SBC-type league back in the Fry-era playing on an SBC-type TV network package? Then how many more would have known about that flying worm/helmet of NT? Might it had been so recognizable because of so many TV appearances that we might still have that helmet today; a la SMU and Texas who have kept their helmet logos mascots in tact for decades?

I like Deep Green's helmet w/o N T on it because our present SBC member Mean Green football team gets more TV opps and with all those opportunities might we be able to get our new look helmet out to the masses much quicker than 3 1/2 decades ago? Even more important could be how NT officials could very strategically place the "North Texas" (with its present font) on the front of our team's jerseys in 2 lines and do that with much larger letters than could ever be put on a helmet.

Also, Mean Green is already a most identifiable nickname with our school because of 4 bowl games that were nationally televised and numerous SBC TV game appearances as well so we would still be emphasizing that most unique nickname AND........................."Mean Green" could still be spelled out vertically on the pants or instead of "North Texas" on the jersey, put "Mean Green" on the jerseys and find another place for UNT or North Texas. We will always be the Mean Green and our media guides would stress that to media outlets and all of our opponent's sports broadcasters to use in all of their respective broadcasts.

A football helmet w/o putting any school names or school abbreviations just says that we have enough confidence with what Todd Dodge is going to do for our football program (along with more TV appearances we know we will be getting more of eventually) that we just don't have a need to make our helmet look "too busy" and non-functionable (and one that half our constituency will like with the other half who will not like--and won't buy it at retailers). What better way to appease all potential UNT sports gear customers by putting absolutely no letters on our future NT football helmet. If not with the present crowd at UNT, something to consider seriously for our next group and new helmet go-around in Denton.

For you Young Gun NT alums: if you just could have been part of our 17-19,000 Mean Green fans (which BTW....our group's enormous numbers during that beautiful evening in Austin absolutely blew many UT fans away); anyway, if you could have just been a witness to all this at DKR Memorial at our state's capital city on September of 1976, you would known exactly what many of us on this board are talking about as far as UNT having a helmet with no letters but rather a helmet with just a futuristic eagle logo on it instead.

IN CLOSING....

A "letter-less" NT football helmet during the Fry Era at UNT just showed to many across our state that our school coupled with a high profile Head Football Coach (namely Hayden Fry and now with Todd Dodge); nevertheless, UNT had so much confidence with what we were going to do with our football program that we didn't have to choose among about a "jillion" font possibilities for an "N T" to put on a helmet nor did we have to worry about what kind of "cute'sy" letters we could use to spell out our schools "entire name" (can you say..........."a bit too "busy" with that many letters")? This was a MG football program that had athletic staffers who had taken us to Top 20 rankings and who daily walked with a swagger..........as did many of its alums.

GMG!

PS: IF 1 or 2 of you who I know are close enough to Prez "B" as to get her immediate and undivided attention agree with most of the aforementioned (as I know many of you do as it was some of you on this board who sold me on the idea long ago); that is, as far as our next NT helmet possbily being "letter-less" but rather a "eagle logo only"UNT football helmet............

................anyway, please do feel free to email the aforementioned thoughts to her office. I just think she might be interested in hearing another side on all this NT helmet business anyway, that is, for the large majority of those on this board from every era who would like to see more consumers buying our "Collegiate Licensed" Mean Green sports gear (of which looks, style and appearance has everything to do with their wanting to do such en mass. And FWIW, with because with the Collegiate Licensing officials who monitor sales of NCAA schools sportswear/gear, isn't it still a matter of the more gear that UNT sells, the more income UNT make$ from Collegiate Licensing?

A quick question to Harry or another admin on this board - can you program a counter of the average words per PMG posts... or maybe the number of times per month he makes reference to a new stadium in his posts

I'm just kidding PMG, I wish most students/alumni were as passionate as you about NT athletics.

[FirefightnRick]

He has proven it to me already. I saw our offense score more in one scrimmage this spring than in all scrimmages I watched combined last spring.

Let alone the fact that people seem to forget Dodge coached here before and produced an offense that averaged close to 28 points per game.

RIck

[akriesman]

Deep Green. FWIW, your helmet design with the unique Eagle (not the Philly or Rice Eagle) is the best I have ever seen IMHO. It would make an absolutely outstanding helmet and would be one the university could be really proud of.

It even looks good in white.

For several years now, I have thought that the green jerseys and helmets have put the team at a disadvantage. The all green uni's make it slightly more difficult for the QB to spot the receivers on a green field. Heck, you can even see this playing as UNT in the Madden college FB game.

I really don't mean to hijack this thread regarding helmet design. But, I just wanted to compliment Deep Green's work.

[PlummMeanGreen]

A quick question to Harry or another admin on this board - can you program a counter of the average words per PMG posts... or maybe the number of times per month he makes reference to a new stadium in his posts

I'm just kidding PMG, I wish most students/alumni were as passionate as you about NT athletics.

Mean'n'Green07, it's just time for us to shake and bake with our athletic program & mostly I mean MG football. We've had 25 plus years of non-ranked D1-A football (those years we have been D1-A) and quite frankly, there are a whole bunch of us on this board who are running out of time to be, well, uh............ passionate. But thanks for the kind words anyway.

But I'm a bit wordy you say? Well............... "the last time" I was asked to close a church sevice with a benediction prayer, once I was finished I looked up, around and no one was left in the sanctuary. I even prayed (by name) for each and every one in attendance that morning.

BTW, I think many believe it could be a new "D1-A" football stadium that could play a major part in our ending our 2 1/2 decades of non-ranked MG football in Denton; that coupled with a good HFC who will set much higher goals than just just SBC championships, a la Boise State U (which many of us believe that missing part of the puzzle has now been found).

GMG!

-

Edited April 14, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

good thred...keep it goin!

[eppy4life]

good thred...keep it goin!

yes.

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

yes.

Absolutely!

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

There have been two times in the last 40 years that NT was on their way to making a breakthrough in athletics. This was in the late 60's when NT IMO was in the top 3 in both football and basketball in Texas and in the mid 70's with Fry and Blakeley as coaches in the two main sports. Despite unparalleled success in those two periods compared to the NT norm, NT failed to capitalize on these achievements. Not only did NT not take advantage of winning programs, they actually reduced budgets for the two main sports and a rapid decline began.

The reason I mentioned the above, is I think unlike in the periods above; NT now has the administration in place that sees the value in athletics and are sincerely trying to upgrade the athletic programs. This is the key to success and assuming continued strong athletic support from the Broad and Administration; everything else, though far from easy to achieve, should eventually fall into place: fundraising, attendance, better facilities and a general move up in the NCAA athletics food chain.

--- There are huge differences in today and those two periods mentioned. The SWC existed then and everyone paid attention to them and pretty much only the teams in the SWC. Those that were not in the SWC were pretty much ignored and did not matter much how well they did.. Not only that it was extremely rare to even get the SWC teams to put us on their schedule then (even more difficult than now).

--Also, three of those non SWC teams of that era are pretty much history (football-wise)... Lamar and UT-Arlington no longer play football and West Texas has really down-sized their program. There are now less programs fighting for football attention and our enrollment was about 1/2 of what it is today.

---We are now closer to the Metroplex as well since there was little population north of LBJ (loop 635), in fact I remember having car trouble on LBJ in 1971 and was far from the nearest structure (now this is close to the Galleria).

--Also at that time Florida State and Miami had about the the status we did... times have changed. It changed largely because they were able to schedule some "big boys" and defeat them.

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

--Also at that time Florida State and Miami had about the the status we did... times have changed. It changed largely because they were able to schedule some "big boys" and defeat them.

Is this correct? If so what did they do differently that we were unable to do?

[PHSCoach]

Is this correct? If so what did they do differently that we were unable to do?

Spend money

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

Regarding conference membership, I don't see the WAC as an "opportunity". We turned them down before and certainly should again.

BTW..We never got a bid to join the WAC. I spoke with someone on the Board of Athletic Advisors and he said we never received a bid and if we had, we would have taken it in a heart beat.

[NT80]

BTW..We never got a bid to join the WAC. I spoke with someone on the Board of Athletic Advisors and he said we never received a bid and if we had, we would have taken it in a heart beat.

There probably wasn't an official "bid" given because we would not accept without conditions. What I heard there was plenty of verbal offers of what-if this and that. The sides could never come to an agreement about the WAC taking more than just NT so it fell apart. Yes, we could have been in the WAC.

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

There probably wasn't an official "bid" given because we would not accept without conditions. What I heard there was plenty of verbal offers of what-if this and that. The sides could never come to an agreement about the WAC taking more than just NT so it fell apart.

Im not sure about that. He made no mention of the WAC even wanting NT. Where are you getting this from?

[UNTLifer]

There probably wasn't an official "bid" given because we would not accept without conditions. What I heard there was plenty of verbal offers of what-if this and that. The sides could never come to an agreement about the WAC taking more than just NT so it fell apart. Yes, we could have been in the WAC.

Yes, this was pretty common knowledge. I believe NT wanted ULL and Ark. St., maybe wrong on that, as travel partners.

[NT80]

Yes, this was pretty common knowledge. I believe NT wanted ULL and Ark. St., maybe wrong on that, as travel partners.

Yes, ArkStFan posted a lengthy thread on this subject about the different offers and deals turned down. The WAC basically went to 3-4 SBC schools individually to try to lure one but all agreed to go as a small group or none. Should we reconsider?

[UNTLifer]

Should we reconsider?

No

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

Yes, this was pretty common knowledge. I believe NT wanted ULL and Ark. St., maybe wrong on that, as travel partners.

Reasonably sure that those three were included. There could have been one more since the WAC only had 8 teams at the time. We insisted on 12 teams and the WAC said no.

The offering appeared on the WAC board several times, Karl Benson acknowledged publicly that he had talked to us and, as NT80 pointed out, ArkStFan, who is connected to the conference office and other universities within the conference posted the details on at least one occasion. He is the moderator of the ASU board. He further stated that we turned the WAC down after being furnished expenditure figures from Louisiana-Lafayette, who along with LaTech is a member of the University of Louisiana System.

I was not aware that we have a Board of Athletic Advisors. We do have at least one Board of Advisors within the UNT System. I know that the College of Business Administration has an advisory group by that name. I don't know who your source is, or what Board he belongs to, but I believe that he is misinformed if thinks that we were never offered membership by the WAC.

[MCMLXXX]

Is this correct? If so what did they do differently that we were unable to do?

The reason Fla. State went a different direction from us was a lack of willingness on part of our administration to make a commitment to athletics in the early 1980's. The Denton Record Chronicle has a column every Sunday that highlights what happened 25 years ago that week. Last Sunday, one of the highlighted news events from this week in 1982 was that the NT administration had cut the athletic budget by 30% for 1982-1983. That is how you fall behind. I have heard that Fla. State took a piece of the Fouts Field turf home with them when they upset us in the mid 1970's and it was placed in an area that commemorates special victories. Of course, you should probably check this out with your "Board of Athletic Advisors" member (whatever that is).

[UNTLifer]

I have heard that Fla. State took a piece of the Fouts Field turf home with them when they upset us in the mid 1970's and it was placed in an area that commemorates special victories.

I don't think that is true considering me and my other 10/11 year old friends were in a snowball fight with the Seminoles after the game.

[MCMLXXX]

BTW..We never got a bid to join the WAC. I spoke with someone on the Board of Athletic Advisors and he said we never received a bid and if we had, we would have taken it in a heart beat.

I think the WAC opportunity has been sufficiently explained by others . I would like to address the claim that "we would have taken it in a heartbeat". When TCU joined the MWC I asked RV what he thought about it. He made it very clear at that time that he believed they were making a mistake. He cited later starts for sporting events and thus reduced local coverage due to late results, the extended travel times for athletes and the resulting academic hardship, and the cost of travel especially for non revenue sports. Consider that the MWC schools are a lot closer than the WAC schools and you have your answer for why we would not have joined "in a heartbeat". Looking at distance, consider that TCU is closer than La Tech; UNM is closer than NMSU; CSU, AFA, Wyoming and UNLV are closer than all other WAC schools; SDSU, BYU, and Utah are about the same distance as USU; and all other WAC schools are hundreds of miles farther away. In addition the MWC schools are all as close to or closer to major airports. I would prefer the MWC over the SBC, but we have already been in the Big West with a lot of the WAC schools and I don't want to go back.

[MCMLXXX]

I don't think that is true considering me and my other 10/11 year old friends were in a snowball fight with the Seminoles after the game.

With all due respect UNT lifer, don't question my posts like Daddy Dumpsalot. I don't post crap.

http://floridastate.rivals.com/content.asp...1&CID=99984

[FirefightnRick]

I was not aware that we have a Board of Athletic Advisors.

I think he's talking about our Athletic Council that the AD and the President work with on an advisory basis.

Rick