The Big Picture: Top 10 List

[NT80]

OK, helmets are fun to design and debate but not actually a top priority. Sure, the goal is National Championships in all sports every year; before that, what will have the most impact on the future direction of NT Athletics moving up the NCAA food chain?

1. Athletic Conference. The biggest impact by far for attracting recruits, fan$, and media...it's all about WHO you play. Currently in slow-growth, beginners-only SBC. Going independent is not an option. Only realistic future opportunities are CUSA or WAC. MWC is unlikely to be available and Big12 is only a dream (check back in 25 years). Goal should be CUSA membership and connections to other Texas 1-A mid-major schools.

2. New Football Stadium. Football drives the bus for athletic revenue at UNT. We have to be able to attract quality OOC opponents and fans to Denton and impress them to come back. NT fans must not fear inviting new guests to the football facility. We have such a facility in the SuperPit where we have hosted top basketball programs like Texas, DePaul, Indiana, Oklahoma State, etc. We need to be able to do the same in football, especially in Texas. We may be forced due to funding to start in a 31,000 stadium, but it will be new, with better sight lines and needed amenities, and expandable ASAP. Goal to open by 2009.

3. Attendance. Fan support is critical to any move-up in athletic conference, facilities, and program image. UNT needs to become the City of Denton's college football program and an event for the community. Advertising however must not be limited to Denton like in the past but encompass the entire Metroplex where a population of 5 million awaits. Initial goal should be 25,000 average for football and 5,000 for basketball.

4. Student involvement. Alums and parents alone can't maintain a top athletic program. It must have the student's support and following. Tailgating is helping. Freshman orientation talks about athletics are excellent. Need more involvment with Greeks and apartment/off-campus dwellers.

5. Winning. Fans will come anyway to see a "name" opponent, but winning will bring fans to the unknown opponent games. OOC games with SMUt and Navy are huge this year for Dodge. It may be a year too soon for another trip to the New Orleans Bowl, but fans will respond to the new, exciting offense positively. Goal this season 6-6.

6. Media. Specifically more. The need for a broader area of radio stations across Texas and southern Oklahoma broadcasting games. Technology and links to provide direct game highlight feeds to DFW area TV and newspaper outlets.

7. Donor$ and MGC members. It all takes $$ to progress. Athletic Boosters are the lifeblood of any successful college athletic program. They are walking/talking/selling promotors and stake-holders of the program.

8. Eagle Point and other sports. Development of this land will have a huge benefit for UNT Athletics for decades to come. We are so fortunate to have the acres available to expand. Just ask SMU if they would like an extra 200 acres for athletic facilities. Women's sports will enjoy top-notch expansion of facilities, not just in number of sports only.

9. Recruits / Student Athletes. Teams earn the W/L records but individuals provide the personality and role models. More Johnny Quinns needed.

10. City and Campus. As mentioned before Denton will play an even more important part of UNT's athletic growth if we hope to reach a higher level. Transportation issues, I-35 expansion and DART rail, will play greater roles in the future. The campus is growing and 40,000 students is a good thing for an athletic program wanting to expand.

[NM Green]

1-10 attendance, attendance, attendance, attendance...

If we get attendance through grass roots push, creative marketing, out of the box promotions...everything else will take care of itself. A % of people will show up to see a weak product IF the event is enticing enough.

So we are on our way - Dodge will win and Jones will win again. All of the other factors will begin to wake up and take care of themselves.

GMG

[DeepGreen]

Good stuff NT80. At this point and time, I think we need to get back to our winning ways ASAP. With Dodge at the helm, if he can bring in exiting, winning football to Denton, I think the interest in North Texas will elevate in a short time. If I had to list the top two on your list -

1. Winning football (I'm not talking about beating up on SBC teams, I mean spanking the likes of SMUt, beating Navy, playing OU and Arkansas tough, then trashing any other teams we come up against. Can we do it, I simply don't know at this point and time.

2. Stadium

Accomplish these two items with Dodge ball and the other eight will come sooner than expected by some.

Edited April 13, 2007 by DeepGreen

[MCMLXXX]

Regarding conference membership, I don't see the WAC as an "opportunity". We turned them down before and certainly should again. I would love to be TCU's travel partner for the MWC and have AFA come here every other year.

[NT80]

Regarding conference membership, I don't see the WAC as an "opportunity". We turned them down before and certainly should again. I would love to be TCU's travel partner for the MWC and have AFA come here every other year.

The MWC would certainly be an excellent step up, but at this time if TCU were to sponsor a travel partner it would probably be $MUt. How would MWC travel be that much different from WAC travel?

[MeanGreen61]

The MWC would certainly be an excellent step up, but at this time if TCU were to sponsor a travel partner it would probably be $MUt. How would MWC travel be that much different from WAC travel?

Don't be too sure about $MUt. Beleive TCU is more than content to have them as an OC game. Their first choice could be Houston.

[MCMLXXX]

I did not claim travel would be better, only that it is a better conference. That being said, Boise, Idaho, Nevada, Fresno, Hawaii, and San Jose are all farther away than the farthest MWC school. Utah State is in a remote rural area not as easily accessible as Utah or BYU. TCU is closer than La Tech and UNM is not much farther than NMSU and is in Albuerque near the airport.

[NT80]

Don't be too sure about $MUt. Beleive TCU is more than content to have them as an OC game. Their first choice could be Houston.

I would think UTEP would re-enter the MWC picture before Houston, based solely on attendance and geography factors.

[risinggreen]

All good points and a lot of things that we need to see happen, but I wouldn't say 25 YEARS to get into the Big Twelve. Personally, I doubt that conference will even be in its current form a dozen or so years from now. Austin and maybe College Station will probably be restless before then, and WHEN we have our beautiful stadium out there on I-35 to go along with our 50k student body not too far down the road, there's really no telling what may happen. It's nice to dream, but then again things can change very quickly in this world of ours!

[UNT_playmaker]

OK, helmets are fun to design and debate but not actually a top priority. Sure, the goal is National Championships in all sports every year; before that, what will have the most impact on the future direction of NT Athletics moving up the NCAA food chain?

1. Athletic Conference. The biggest impact by far for attracting recruits, fan$, and media...it's all about WHO you play. Currently in slow-growth, beginners-only SBC. Going independent is not an option. Only realistic future opportunities are CUSA or WAC. MWC is unlikely to be available and Big12 is only a dream (check back in 25 years). Goal should be CUSA membership and connections to other Texas 1-A mid-major schools.

2. New Football Stadium. Football drives the bus for athletic revenue at UNT. We have to be able to attract quality OOC opponents and fans to Denton and impress them to come back. NT fans must not fear inviting new guests to the football facility. We have such a facility in the SuperPit where we have hosted top basketball programs like Texas, DePaul, Indiana, Oklahoma State, etc. We need to be able to do the same in football, especially in Texas. We may be forced due to funding to start in a 31,000 stadium, but it will be new, with better sight lines and needed amenities, and expandable ASAP. Goal to open by 2009.

3. Attendance. Fan support is critical to any move-up in athletic conference, facilities, and program image. UNT needs to become the City of Denton's college football program and an event for the community. Advertising however must not be limited to Denton like in the past but encompass the entire Metroplex where a population of 5 million awaits. Initial goal should be 25,000 average for football and 5,000 for basketball.

4. Student involvement. Alums and parents alone can't maintain a top athletic program. It must have the student's support and following. Tailgating is helping. Freshman orientation talks about athletics are excellent. Need more involvment with Greeks and apartment/off-campus dwellers.

5. Winning. Fans will come anyway to see a "name" opponent, but winning will bring fans to the unknown opponent games. OOC games with SMUt and Navy are huge this year for Dodge. It may be a year too soon for another trip to the New Orleans Bowl, but fans will respond to the new, exciting offense positively. Goal this season 6-6.

6. Media. Specifically more. The need for a broader area of radio stations across Texas and southern Oklahoma broadcasting games. Technology and links to provide direct game highlight feeds to DFW area TV and newspaper outlets.

7. Donor$ and MGC members. It all takes $$ to progress. Athletic Boosters are the lifeblood of any successful college athletic program. They are walking/talking/selling promotors and stake-holders of the program.

8. Eagle Point and other sports. Development of this land will have a huge benefit for UNT Athletics for decades to come. We are so fortunate to have the acres available to expand. Just ask SMU if they would like an extra 200 acres for athletic facilities. Women's sports will enjoy top-notch expansion of facilities, not just in number of sports only.

9. Recruits / Student Athletes. Teams earn the W/L records but individuals provide the personality and role models. More Johnny Quinns needed.

10. City and Campus. As mentioned before Denton will play an even more important part of UNT's athletic growth if we hope to reach a higher level. Transportation issues, I-35 expansion and DART rail, will play greater roles in the future. The campus is growing and 40,000 students is a good thing for an athletic program wanting to expand.

Right on NT80. 1-10 is in perfect order for what needs to be done

[UNT_playmaker]

Good stuff NT80. At this point and time, I think we need to get back to our winning ways ASAP. With Dodge at the helm, if he can bring in exiting, winning football to Denton, I think the interest in North Texas will elevate in a short time. If I had to list the top two on your list -

1. Winning football (I'm not talking about beating up on SBC teams, I mean spanking the likes of SMUt, beating Navy, playing OU and Arkansas tough, then trashing any other teams we come up against. Can we do it, I simply don't know at this point and time.

2. Stadium

Accomplish these two items with Dodge ball and the other eight will come sooner than expected by some.

Deep Green your helmet avatar is pefect for what NT helmet and branding should look like.

[LongJim]

1. Winning.

2. Donor$ and MGC members/Alum/Student involvement.

These are the only items that matter. The others listed hinge on the success of these two.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Deep Green your helmet avatar is pefect for what NT helmet and branding should look like.

I agree and...............

I CAN'T ADD MUCH MORE ON THIS SUBJECT THAN THE FOLLOWING:

Like an NT Ex told me just yesterday: Why do we feel a need and why don't we of UNT feel confident enough about who we are as a school "football-wise" that we feel we must put any letters or words on a UNT football helmet? Won't people know that when we are on TV (as we've been many times the last 7-8 years), that that is truly "North Texas" playing in that game? AND.............with special designed "eagle only" helmet that looks nothing like a Philly Eagle helmet?

For "flying worm" critics, in September of 1976 the most impressive appearance of about 17-19,000 Mean Green fans at UT's DKR Memorial Stadium were all watching a team all of whom were wearing that "flying worm" helmet; and a MG football team which came within minutes of putting a knot on the head of an Earl Campbell-led DKR-coached Longhorn football team. We lost that game 17-14 in the last minutes of the game with a long TD run by (who else?)..................... Mr. Earl Campbell.

Not many (especially UT Longhorn fans) left that stadium post-game making fun of those apple green unis' (which BTW is a color most of us would not want us to go back to in this era) and for certain no one was making fun of our alma mater's helmet logo, ie, what many now call the "flying worm" helmet which is a name I still to this day feel uncomfortable calling such, but guess the name we have to use so most on this board know we are talking about that particular UNT helmet. (I personally don't see any worm connection as it is------at least it doesn't look like any worm I've seen lately.

NO LETTERS/ NO NAMES ON A HELMET..........IS THAT COMMUNIST-LIKE OR WHAT? Nevertheless, many of our NT community thought a helmet w/o any letters or words on it was just downright cool for North Texas; in fact, was so cool that many in the DFW Metroplex bought much NT gear with the the Fry-era eagle all all that NT sports gear of that day. For what its worth (again)..............I didn't hear much about all this flying worm business until Hayden Fry left and a hardy handful of his NT-employed Denton detractors (none of whom are to this day in the College Football Hall of Fame) loved that name. Yet you would see the "F..... W..." all over the DFW Metroplex as you drove the interstates and highways and I don't recall SMU'er or TCU'ers making fun of that logo either (especially TCU'er whose football program that would never schedule a Fry-coached Mean Green football team were sucking hind teat as a football program back then).

Many across Texas and the Southwest knew that about the Fry-era eagle back then and the (at the time) fashionable apple green; but what most Texans (including my late Houston area dad who had always been a big DKR/Texas fan); anyway, even he knew something special was going on in Denton with that "North Texas" bunch with their going/growing program that many in our region began watching with interest its progress.

IMAGINE........... Can you only imagine had NT been in an SBC-type league back in the Fry-era playing on an SBC-type TV network package? Then how many more would have known about that flying worm/helmet of NT? Might it had been so recognizable because of so many TV appearances that we might still have that helmet today; a la SMU and Texas who have kept their helmet logos mascots in tact for decades?

I like Deep Green's helmet w/o N T on it because our present SBC member Mean Green football team gets more TV opps and with all those opportunities might we be able to get our new look helmet out to the masses much quicker than 3 1/2 decades ago? Even more important could be how NT officials could very strategically place the "North Texas" (with its present font) on the front of our team's jerseys in 2 lines and do that with much larger letters than could ever be put on a helmet.

Also, Mean Green is already a most identifiable nickname with our school because of 4 bowl games that were nationally televised and numerous SBC TV game appearances as well so we would still be emphasizing that most unique nickname AND........................."Mean Green" could still be spelled out vertically on the pants or instead of "North Texas" on the jersey, put "Mean Green" on the jerseys and find another place for UNT or North Texas. We will always be the Mean Green and our media guides would stress that to media outlets and all of our opponent's sports broadcasters to use in all of their respective broadcasts.

A football helmet w/o putting any school names or school abbreviations just says that we have enough confidence with what Todd Dodge is going to do for our football program (along with more TV appearances we know we will be getting more of eventually) that we just don't have a need to make our helmet look "too busy" and non-functionable (and one that half our constituency will like with the other half who will not like--and won't buy it at retailers). What better way to appease all potential UNT sports gear customers by putting absolutely no letters on our future NT football helmet. If not with the present crowd at UNT, something to consider seriously for our next group and new helmet go-around in Denton.

For you Young Gun NT alums: if you just could have been part of our 17-19,000 Mean Green fans (which BTW....our group's enormous numbers during that beautiful evening in Austin absolutely blew many UT fans away); anyway, if you could have just been a witness to all this at DKR Memorial at our state's capital city on September of 1976, you would known exactly what many of us on this board are talking about as far as UNT having a helmet with no letters but rather a helmet with just a futuristic eagle logo on it instead.

IN CLOSING....

A "letter-less" NT football helmet during the Fry Era at UNT just showed to many across our state that our school coupled with a high profile Head Football Coach (namely Hayden Fry and now with Todd Dodge); nevertheless, UNT had so much confidence with what we were going to do with our football program that we didn't have to choose among about a "jillion" font possibilities for an "N T" to put on a helmet nor did we have to worry about what kind of "cute'sy" letters we could use to spell out our schools "entire name" (can you say..........."a bit too "busy" with that many letters")? This was a MG football program that had athletic staffers who had taken us to Top 20 rankings and who daily walked with a swagger..........as did many of its alums.

GMG!

PS: IF 1 or 2 of you who I know are close enough to Prez "B" as to get her immediate and undivided attention agree with most of the aforementioned (as I know many of you do as it was some of you on this board who sold me on the idea long ago); that is, as far as our next NT helmet possbily being "letter-less" but rather a "eagle logo only"UNT football helmet............

................anyway, please do feel free to email the aforementioned thoughts to her office. I just think she might be interested in hearing another side on all this NT helmet business anyway, that is, for the large majority of those on this board from every era who would like to see more consumers buying our "Collegiate Licensed" Mean Green sports gear (of which looks, style and appearance has everything to do with their wanting to do such en mass. And FWIW, with because with the Collegiate Licensing officials who monitor sales of NCAA schools sportswear/gear, isn't it still a matter of the more gear that UNT sells, the more income UNT make$ from Collegiate Licensing?

Edited April 13, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

I'm not sure where this became a helmet post but I like your list, Jeff.

One thing that is perhaps the most vital of all was omitted, however. Coaching Thankfully, we now have that in place. Coaching begats winning (my #1), donors/MGC, recruits/student athletes and attendance especially. While the the new coaching staff hasn't produced wins yet, I have every confidence that they will. Donors, MGC membership, attendance (at least season ticket sales), and media attention have greatly improved. We've seen the caliber of the coaching staff's first recruiting class. There is renewed interest in the city and on campus.

One other item that I would add is Scheduling. Until we can join a conference with teams closer to home, a lot of our ills can be cured with scheduling. I'd like to see at least two or three of the following on our schedule every year: Baylor, SMU, TCU, Houston, Rice, Tulsa, Memphis, Tulane, Southern Miss, UTEP, New Mexico, New Mexico State, Oklahoma State, Vanderbilt, Army, Navy, and Air Force. At the very least, one of those should be a home game each year. In a few years I'd like to add Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, LSU, and Arkansas to the list.

That's my 2 cents. I don't see removing any of the previous list (except for #10a helmets) so let's just make it a Top 12.

[DeepGreen]

Deep Green your helmet avatar is pefect for what NT helmet and branding should look like.

Thanks. I'm sure that a professional graphic artist could really do a great job on the same concept.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

---Good Top-10 list but "Grey Eagle's" comment is the KEY.... a good HOME-SCHEDULE and being competitive.

---A conference with closer (regional) opponents would be very helpful in improving interest... even though much of the CUSA teams are not much better than the Belt ones. We need a few Big XII teams to visit Denton as well ... which means we need a better and larger stadium that we currently have.

---With a better HOME schedule will automatically come more media attention, better fan support, more student involvement, being able to recruit better, and most of the other things mentioned on the list.... In short Grey Eagle has got it right...... a better home schedule (which requires a better stadium) plus winning and being competitive.

---In basketball, we are in good shape as for as an arena goes but more interesting opponents would be helpful to improve fan support (which was awful).

Edited April 13, 2007 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[Green to the Bone]

I agree and...............

I CAN'T ADD MUCH MORE ON THIS SUBJECT THAN THE FOLLOWING:

Most amusing intro possible for a Plumm post.

[LongJim]

I'd like to see at least two or three of the following on our schedule every year: Baylor, SMU, TCU, Houston, Rice, Tulsa, Memphis, Tulane, Southern Miss, UTEP, New Mexico, New Mexico State, Oklahoma State, Vanderbilt, Army, Navy, and Air Force. At the very least, one of those should be a home game each year. In a few years I'd like to add Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, LSU, and Arkansas to the list.

I could not agree more, GEO.

[KBJ]

---With a better HOME schedule will automatically come more media attention, better fan support, more student involvement, being able to recruit better, and most of the other things mentioned on the list.... In short Grey Eagle has got it right...... a better home schedule (which requires a better stadium) plus winning and being competitive.

Sorry but we have played a team on that list at home 3 of the last 4 years just to avg. what 15,000.

Until the ticket sales is over $1,500,00 per year (we are currently at $300,000) the money games will be played at the OU, UT, LSU sites. UNT can not make money with home games

[Charlie NT 73]

All 10 points are very important to the long term goals of NT and NT athletics.

For now, I see the most important goal is to build a quality FB stadium which will

support recruiting and attendence. Next, WINNING! There are thousands of NT

alums in the DFW metroplex and across the state. Start winning again in football

and the fans will come, along with the donor$. Tie in the success of the BB team,

and you have 2 very strong progams that will sell themselves. This will snow ball

into greater success for all 10 points listed.

Why is it, many posters beleive that NT must suck up to the other conferences, and

beg for admission. I say the other conferences will be sucking up to NT very soon

and want NT to join their conference.

Start with a new stadium, start winning and beating the crap out of the mid-majors,

and before you know it, NT will have 50,000 fans coming to the games. With the

north Texas metroplex growing in leaps and bounds, I can see why Coach Dodge

can see NT as the metroplex's team! So, stay in the SBC for now, build the stadium,

get the NT alums /fans back to the Denton to proudly see the NT teams play,

reguardless of who the opponent is going to be. Success begins here, and in my

view, build it and they will come!

[GrandGreen]

There have been two times in the last 40 years that NT was on their way to making a breakthrough in athletics. This was in the late 60's when NT IMO was in the top 3 in both football and basketball in Texas and in the mid 70's with Fry and Blakeley as coaches in the two main sports. Despite unparalleled success in those two periods compared to the NT norm, NT failed to capitalize on these achievements. Not only did NT not take advantage of winning programs, they actually reduced budgets for the two main sports and a rapid decline began.

The reason I mentioned the above, is I think unlike in the periods above; NT now has the administration in place that sees the value in athletics and are sincerely trying to upgrade the athletic programs. This is the key to success and assuming continued strong athletic support from the Broad and Administration; everything else, though far from easy to achieve, should eventually fall into place: fundraising, attendance, better facilities and a general move up in the NCAA athletics food chain.

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

Sorry but we have played a team on that list at home 3 of the last 4 years just to avg. what 15,000.

Until the ticket sales is over $1,500,00 per year (we are currently at $300,000) the money games will be played at the OU, UT, LSU sites. UNT can not make money with home games

The 15,000 figure is for ALL games; not the schools that were mentioned. In the last few years we have played (at home): Baylor (30,000), New Mexico State (20,000), SMU (25,000), TCU (23,000) and Tulsa (19,000). We had about 28,000 at the NO Bowl against Southern Miss, where we were technically the home team. In years past we have played Houston and Vanderbilt at Fouts, Army at Texas Stadium, and will play Navy at Fouts this year. All drew more than 16,000 when we had pretty bad teams and I'll be very disappointed if the Navy game isn't at least a near sellout. These were games where the defense was usually more exciting than the offense. I think that you will see some hefty increases in attendance during the Dodgeball era. You will certainly see a more entertaining brand of football.

I did not mention doing away with the away money game each year but I'd like to see it reduced to just one. I think that we could raise our ticket prices five dollars (except end zone) for those teams and most would be willing to pay. That would still be less than probably all of the 1-A Texas universities. With an average attendance of 25,000 that would allow us to gross in the $400-500,000 range.

To achieve $1,500,000 in season ticket sales would require more than 12,000 at current prices. We'll probably never achieve that as long as we're in the Sun Belt.

[PlummMeanGreen]

I'm not sure where this became a helmet post but I like your list, Jeff.

One thing that is perhaps the most vital of all was omitted, however. Coaching Thankfully, we now have that in place. Coaching begats winning (my #1), donors/MGC, recruits/student athletes and attendance especially. While the the new coaching staff hasn't produced wins yet, I have every confidence that they will. Donors, MGC membership, attendance (at least season ticket sales), and media attention have greatly improved. We've seen the caliber of the coaching staff's first recruiting class. There is renewed interest in the city and on campus.

One other item that I would add is Scheduling. Until we can join a conference with teams closer to home, a lot of our ills can be cured with scheduling. I'd like to see at least two or three of the following on our schedule every year: Baylor, SMU, TCU, Houston, Rice, Tulsa, Memphis, Tulane, Southern Miss, UTEP, New Mexico, New Mexico State, Oklahoma State, Vanderbilt, Army, Navy, and Air Force. At the very least, one of those should be a home game each year. In a few years I'd like to add Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, LSU, and Arkansas to the list.

That's my 2 cents. I don't see removing any of the previous list (except for #10a helmets) so let's just make it a Top 12.

OK, Jack, just for you:

10-A. Just Scattershootin', Shootin' the Bull, Rambling (about NT helmets which have most likely already been ordered for Fall, 2007), Aimless Mumble-ings & Just General Lagniape (Sorry, NT80, didn't mean to "briefly" hijack your well thought out thread of good ideas).

THINK BIG <>*<> BUILD BIGGER!

Edited April 14, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[cody11]

Dodge hasn't yet proven that he is capable of coaching at the college level. Let's not forget this is a big step up for him. Jerry Faust was a great high school coach that failed miserably in college. I hope that Dodge does will and I think he probably will. He hasn't proven that yet though.

[NT80]

Dodge hasn't yet proven that he is capable of coaching at the college level. Let's not forget this is a big step up for him. Jerry Faust was a great high school coach that failed miserably in college. I hope that Dodge does will and I think he probably will. He hasn't proven that yet though.

He has proven it to me already. I saw our offense score more in one scrimmage this spring than in all scrimmages I watched combined last spring.

In the final fall scrimmage last year, before DD took us to Austin and lost 56-7, the "scout team" coached by a grad assistant beat the first units.