3 Ships Left...

[Censored by Laurie]

...and where to go with them. I think the answer is dictated on two major factors...Johnathon Jackson's health and Marquez Haynes interest. First Haynes...if Haynes wants UNT...he should be priority number one...he would be a dynamic player in the sunbelt...and create an 08-09 backcourt of himself, Collin Dennis and Ryan McCoy...two scoring combos and a true point and whether all 3 are on the court together or on a rotation...that would be the best backcourt in the Sunbelt hands down. On to Jackson...if he's healthy enough to be a quality reserve (15-20 mins, 5ppg, 5rpg) the second ship goes to a D-1 transfer big man...if a quality big is available. This leaves next years front court with Keith and Quincey starting and Stewart and Jackson as two quality reserves. If Jackson isn't healthy...and barring that Justin Howerton learns how to walk, then run, then play basketball...the second scholarship needs to go to a JUCO or ready-to-play freshman post. JUCO fowards have been hit (Jeff Simpson, Michael DeGrate) and miss (Curtis Muse)...but our luck with freshmen hasn't been much better. The last ship needs to go to a wing...scorer or defender...obviously both would be nice. Our two "swingmen" next year are an unproven sophmore in Mangrum and the cancer of the past 3 years Michael Sturns...who's experience against Memphis should've humbled him...but by all accounts hasn't.

07-08 has the potential to be a rough season...if Dennis isn't the scorer as advertised, if Quincey's development stalls, if Keith is still inconsistant and if Sturns gets 20 shots a game we're looking at a middle of the road finish in the Sun Belt. I don't feel next years success hinges on this recruiting class...those choices and mistakes were made 2 and 3 years ago. However the potential for an outstanding 08-09 season is here if these ships go the right places.

My best case for next year: Frontcourt: Keith Wooden is a consistant contributor night in and night out; Quincey Williams development continues and he averages near a double double; Harold Stewart provides good frontcourt energy for 20 mins a night; John Jackson is healthy and can bang and rebound for 15 mins a night. Backcourt: Ben Bell continues to run a steady ship and looks for his offense a bit more; Collin Dennis is the scorer hes touted as; Michael Sturns' ego has shrunk and he plays within the offense; Collin Mangrum is a solid bench contributor; Ryan McCoy is solid enough to make sure Sturns goes nowhere near the point guard spot; "New Wing player" contributes Rich Young- like numbers. Marquez Haynes and a quality transfer big man sit out for a killer 08-09 season.

These things happen and there's a good chance we're dancing again in March...and an almost guarentee we are the following year.

[CMJ]

Excellent 1st post. Obviously you're connected to things..

[UNT_92_Fan]

Hi Mister Hemingway

[greenminer]

Fantastic analysis. Welcome to the board.

Edited April 12, 2007 by greenminer

[risinggreen]

...and where to go with them. I think the answer is dictated on two major factors...Johnathon Jackson's health and Marquez Haynes interest. First Haynes...if Haynes wants UNT...he should be priority number one...he would be a dynamic player in the sunbelt...and create an 08-09 backcourt of himself, Collin Dennis and Ryan McCoy...two scoring combos and a true point and whether all 3 are on the court together or on a rotation...that would be the best backcourt in the Sunbelt hands down. On to Jackson...if he's healthy enough to be a quality reserve (15-20 mins, 5ppg, 5rpg) the second ship goes to a D-1 transfer big man...if a quality big is available. This leaves next years front court with Keith and Quincey starting and Stewart and Jackson as two quality reserves. If Jackson isn't healthy...and barring that Justin Howerton learns how to walk, then run, then play basketball...the second scholarship needs to go to a JUCO or ready-to-play freshman post. JUCO fowards have been hit (Jeff Simpson, Michael DeGrate) and miss (Curtis Muse)...but our luck with freshmen hasn't been much better. The last ship needs to go to a wing...scorer or defender...obviously both would be nice. Our two "swingmen" next year are an unproven sophmore in Mangrum and the cancer of the past 3 years Michael Sturns...who's experience against Memphis should've humbled him...but by all accounts hasn't.

07-08 has the potential to be a rough season...if Dennis isn't the scorer as advertised, if Quincey's development stalls, if Keith is still inconsistant and if Sturns gets 20 shots a game we're looking at a middle of the road finish in the Sun Belt. I don't feel next years success hinges on this recruiting class...those choices and mistakes were made 2 and 3 years ago. However the potential for an outstanding 08-09 season is here if these ships go the right places.

My best case for next year: Frontcourt: Keith Wooden is a consistant contributor night in and night out; Quincey Williams development continues and he averages near a double double; Harold Stewart provides good frontcourt energy for 20 mins a night; John Jackson is healthy and can bang and rebound for 15 mins a night. Backcourt: Ben Bell continues to run a steady ship and looks for his offense a bit more; Collin Dennis is the scorer hes touted as; Michael Sturns' ego has shrunk and he plays within the offense; Collin Mangrum is a solid bench contributor; Ryan McCoy is solid enough to make sure Sturns goes nowhere near the point guard spot; "New Wing player" contributes Rich Young- like numbers. Marquez Haynes and a quality transfer big man sit out for a killer 08-09 season.

These things happen and there's a good chance we're dancing again in March...and an almost guarentee we are the following year.

Good points overall. So I take it that Sturns won't be best man at your wedding? LOL!! While you're busy beating Sturns down to earth, see if you can lock Bell in the gym and teach him how to shoot some free throws. I love the way he runs the show, but I'd be hard pressed to find another D1 point that shoots 59% from the line. I can probably deal with his shooting from the field, but the guy has got to get more comfortable at the line.

I sure hope that JJ can find a way to fill the holes. The obvious problem with going to the transfer talent pool too often is that you're constantly having to fill the holes and reload. Hopefully we will soon have the luxury of avoiding that and grabbing some of the best frosh out there.

[UNT_92_Fan]

Ahhh the memories of Basketball Games with Censored by Laurie...

-The Jamiacan BobSled Guy

-Billy Tubbs

-NOOOOOO everytime Sturns touched the ball

the list could go on...too bad he moved up to the land of the BoSox and all the new Dice-K fans....

[CMJ]

Good points overall. So I take it that Sturns won't be best man at your wedding? LOL!!

Or Howerton for that matter.

[Censored by Laurie]

Good points overall. So I take it that Sturns won't be best man at your wedding? LOL!! While you're busy beating Sturns down to earth, see if you can lock Bell in the gym and teach him how to shoot some free throws. I love the way he runs the show, but I'd be hard pressed to find another D1 point that shoots 59% from the line. I can probably deal with his shooting from the field, but the guy has got to get more comfortable at the line.

I sure hope that JJ can find a way to fill the holes. The obvious problem with going to the transfer talent pool too often is that you're constantly having to fill the holes and reload. Hopefully we will soon have the luxury of avoiding that and grabbing some of the best frosh out there.

Mike Conley, Jr. had similar numbers from the line...thats certainly not to compare the two, just an example...Bell definently needs some work at the line.

Transfers may be the way to go for the next 2 or 3 years...with the new NBA rule preventing any player from going H.S. to the pros I think your going to see a lot more 3 and 4 star out of high school kids transfering out of big programs as those programs continue to bring in new 5 star recruits every year who they know will play a season or two and then bolt. Programs in those mid-major conferences; Mountain West, Missouri Valley, West Coast and the Sun Belt have had lots of success by adding D-1 transfers to compliment solid players who were recruited as freshmen. And I think the number of those transfers will increase until these guys realize that going to a mid-major and contributing for 4 years is the best way for them to get a look at the league in the future. I was hoping that Texas may sign some 5 star big man and cause Connor Atchley, Matt Hill or Dexter Pittman to transfer.

But in order to have a successful program for an extended period of time, our ability to recruit freshmen needs to improve. Quincey looks like he's panning out...you know my feelings on Sturns; Stewart is a contributor...Howerton is goofy...and Edwards is gone; Mangrum has a chance to contribute next season...thats our roster of freshmen recruits. I want whoever we pull in for the wing this year to be a frosh...doesn't need to be a stud...just a guy who contributes on both ends and understands the philosophy JJ is running

[UNT_92_Fan]

Howerton is Goofy...that makes me laugh...

By the way, I plan on adding nothin' of substance to this thread...I am here to beat down by buddy Censored...

One word to get his head spinning.... Wasian...

Edited April 12, 2007 by UNT_92_Fan

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

---I am pretty sure basketball signing usually go a bit slower that the football ones.. There is a lot of talent out there in HS and in Jucos and not so many scholarships available so you don't want to get in a hurry to use up the entire collection then discover there are some very good ones unsigned that are better than what you have committed to.. The elite ones go quickly but after that it seems to be a lot slower process. In football with such a large team and so many ship available, there will be less talent around if you wait, plus a mistake or two do not hurt as bad as it does in basketball with smaller teams.

---Not sure what happened but MC has a couple of really good ones that did not sign today.. Perhaps the college that were going to has backed out or found other talent that they needed more.

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

Why are there only three ships left? We know that Davis, Watson, Young, and Edwards are gone. Was Flemming not on a scholarship? If the was, that would be five missing and only one signed.

I totally agree that Sturns is a head case but he is also the most talented player on the team. Maybe being a starter might keep him under control better so that he doesn't try to do it all during his playing time.

[foutsrouts]

Yeah, Sturns can look NBAish one minute and Junior Highish the next. For awhile there in the second half of the season he looked like he was starting to overcome his wildness, but a couple of those turnovers against Memphis were pretty sad. His problems may not be the easiest to correct, but I hope that JJ somehow finds a way to harness the obvious talent.

[GrandGreen]

Players currently on ship: Williams Sr, Wooden Sr, Jackson Sr, Bell Sr, Howerton Jr, Stewart Jr, Dennis Jr, Magrum So

That totals 8 on scholarship plus Sturns Sr who played last year without a ship leaving 4 ships to give. McCoy has been signed filling one position. Therefore there are 3 ships to give.

Lot of criticism on this thread toward a couple of players. Without Sturns on the team you wouldn't have to worry about turnovers against Memphis because the team would have never got out of the Belt tournament. Sturns is not a true point guard but he obviously was the best the team had behind Bell. He was exposed against Memphis, moves that worked most of all year didn't work against athletes just as quick or quicker than he is. Howerton IMO gave strong effort and was effective in clogging up the middle and making opponents' post players work. Big men are usually much slower to develop than other players, so hopefully Howerton will continue to progress and become a bigger positive factor for the team.

The lack of recruits at this late date continues to disappoint. NT is now engaged in awarding three ships while most teams have completed their recruiting or just looking for that last fill-in player. NT should be OK next year but currently has only one underclassman on the squad. I hope that NT does not turn completely into a team of transfers with little continuity from year to year.

[H-towngreen]

I would look for more transfers. JJ has done a fairly decent job bringing them in so far. I know it should not be the lifeline of your program, but at this point it seems to be working. And with our lack of underclassman it would help. 3 players from Miss. State have just decided to transfer out, who knows maybe we have a shot.

[Censored by Laurie]

Players currently on ship: Williams Sr, Wooden Sr, Jackson Sr, Bell Sr, Howerton Jr, Stewart Jr, Dennis Jr, Magrum So

That totals 8 on scholarship plus Sturns Sr who played last year without a ship leaving 4 ships to give. McCoy has been signed filling one position. Therefore there are 3 ships to give.

Lot of criticism on this thread toward a couple of players. Without Sturns on the team you wouldn't have to worry about turnovers against Memphis because the team would have never got out of the Belt tournament. Sturns is not a true point guard but he obviously was the best the team had behind Bell. He was exposed against Memphis, moves that worked most of all year didn't work against athletes just as quick or quicker than he is. Howerton IMO gave strong effort and was effective in clogging up the middle and making opponents' post players work. Big men are usually much slower to develop than other players, so hopefully Howerton will continue to progress and become a bigger positive factor for the team.

Sturns in the Sun Belt tourney shot 31% from the field, 20% from 3; as "back-up point guard" Sturns had 5 assists in 4 games and if basketball kept a plus-minus stat like hockey does I promise you Sturns would be comfortably in the red. I am well aware that during the tourney Sturns was the best option at the 1 JJ had available...that doesn't make him beyond reproach and certainly not the reason UNT moved through the tourney. Sturns' "moves" were exposed against Memphis because they are bad and forced moves...moves that could get him low-percentage shots in Sun Belt play, but that result in turnovers against an upper-echelon team. Perhaps some of the blame should fall on JJ...if he knew at the onset that Sturns was going to run the back-up point, he needed to be very clear in his expectations..and the first time Sturns tried to split 4 defenders or took a 25 ft. jumper with a hand in his face...then he sits.

On to Howerton: Big men do take longer to develop...but their are certain factors that indicate whether or not that player WILL develop...and basically its as simple as hands and feet. You develop a drop step or a swim move, but if his left foot hits his right each time he makes a move it makes it rather ineffective...you develop a players ability to seal his defender and read how his perimeter players are going to get him the ball...but if you can't catch it...again its ineffective. I would love to be 100% wrong on Howerton and he has a break through. But from the time he stepped on campus me and everyone who's basketball opinion I regard felt that this kid is stealing money.

Also...who are the players leaving Miss St.?

[NT80]

I agree with several of your points. Sturns is not a guard and I don't know why they forced him into that position, surely we had a better-abled ball handler for that job? He would be much more effective as a forward and as a starter, not limited to just minutes off the bench.. We all knew the weak points of his game would be exposed by Memphis, except coach it seemed. Howerton has the body but catching is a weakness as well as moving with the ball. Still a work in progress.

[GrandGreen]

I was at the Belt tournament and I guarantee you NT would have never have come close to winning the second game without Sturns. As I stated in a past post, I believe that JJ made a big mistake in not finding a replacement point guard before the season. Only time will tell if Howerton develops, he is currently a step slow in reaction time but still takes up a lot of space. I think Sturns is the key to next year, if he can play wing and limit the mental lapses he could indeed be special.

[Harry]

Agree w/Grand on Howerton. I hope he surprises me but I see him as no more than a role player if that.

On Sturns, the reason he was playing point was probably due to the loss of Lionel Brown (?) who left the team due to family issues.

We simply didn't have a backup point and it's been an achilles heel of the team. If we could only have a Bell and Hines on the same team...