League Expansions (off The Frog Board)

[MeanGreen61]

UNT brought up in this discussion.

http://www.killerfrogs.com/msgboard/index....=68512&st=0

From a post in the thread

The only reason I bring up UNT is that they do have the size (students & alumni), academic excellence, and the potential in sports (just got back from entrance in the NCAA basketball tournament, and their football team is a consistent participant in the New Orleans bowl game and just attained a dynamic coach from Southlake). They are a public university, Denton is growing like a weed, and they are on I-35. Just as TCU could renew rivalry games with Baylor, UNT could make new rivalry games with Texas Tech, Baylor, and Oklahoma as it is on the same route. And as you know, a major reason why we want TCU to join a BCS conference, if you do join a BCS conference the recruits and money will start to roll in (or start rolling in eventually) – just take a look at the Big East. UNT could start having the luck of the Rutgers who has never been a powerhouse. BCS recruiting could equal huge success in a winning program, winning creates viewership, viewership creates money, money creates new facilities, new facilities bring in recruits, and the cycle continues.

So I would say UNT has huge potential and something as a TCU grad to think about even though you think they are below us. Nationally people do not care what TCU thinks.

Edited April 10, 2007 by MeanGreen61

[PlummMeanGreen]

So we're back to the old "commuter school" card with one of the Froggy posters, eh? Wonder when we have 20,000 living in our our present and future campus dorms if they will still use that same ol' weathered lagniape; that is, the same thing their daddies and grand-daddies use to say about North Texas back when TCU "used" to be, uh....................... in the Southwest Conference?

Maybe a few more Froggies need to come tour our campus (once again) but now hear the news that there are Texas state officials who are projecting that the University of North Texas will even pass Texas A & M (not the one in Commerce, TX, either) in enrollment in the future as the Lone Star State's 2'nd largest university.

[UNT_playmaker]

North Texas in the Big 12....I'll take that anyday over CUSA or MWC......

If NT edges AtM for the 2nd largest school in Texas honor, I think the Big12 has no other choice than to elect NT has a candidate to be in their conference.

Especially with our new 50,000 seat ( still waiting on a press release) stadium.....

GO Mean Green beat the Sooners of Oklahoma.......

Edited April 10, 2007 by UNT_playmaker

[MeanGreen61]

So we're back to the old "commuter school" card with one of the Froggy posters, eh? Wonder when we have 20,000 living in our our present and future campus dorms if they will still use that same ol' weathered lagniape; that is, the same thing their daddies and grand-daddies use to say about North Texas back when TCU "used" to be, uh....................... in the Southwest Conference?

Maybe a few more Froggies need to come tour our campus (once again) but now hear the news that there are Texas state officials who are projecting that the University of North Texas will even pass Texas A & M (not the one in Commerce, TX, either) in enrollment in the future as the Lone Star State's 2'nd largest university.

From a post by FrogFan71

It's interesting that posters keep referring to NT as a commuter school.....its dorms house more students than the total student population of TCU and SMU combined....along with apartment houses after apartment house surrounding the NT campus which could easily house more than SMU and TCU combined...drive by the campus area and see for yourself. Also...I didn't see the TCU mens BB in the NCAA tournament this year or their scoccer team (does TCU have one) has national ranking.

[UNTFan23]

It's pretty easy to call another school a "commuter" school when over half of your total student population (a whopping 8,800) lives on campus.

[cdawgrun]

From a post by FrogFan71

It's interesting that posters keep referring to NT as a commuter school.....its dorms house more students than the total student population of TCU and SMU combined....along with apartment houses after apartment house surrounding the NT campus which could easily house more than SMU and TCU combined...drive by the campus area and see for yourself. Also...I didn't see the TCU mens BB in the NCAA tournament this year or their scoccer team (does TCU have one) has national ranking.

those TCU's guys arent too bad haha...i feel like once we get basketball consistent and football back winning conference championships again....our exposure will exceed TCU's and we should move up in conferences. Not to mention soccer and track always do very well representing UNT.

[PlummMeanGreen]

From a post by FrogFan71

It's interesting that posters keep referring to NT as a commuter school.....its dorms house more students than the total student population of TCU and SMU combined....along with apartment houses after apartment house surrounding the NT campus which could easily house more than SMU and TCU combined...drive by the campus area and see for yourself. Also...I didn't see the TCU mens BB in the NCAA tournament this year or their scoccer team (does TCU have one) has national ranking.

YES! An enlightened Horned Frog! (Acutally, those of us who work in the Fort Worth area know many enlightened TCU'ers).

Yet would all of you that have worked in DFW most of your adult lives (as I have) and have heard (ad nausem) how North Texas is a commuter school raise your hands! Yep, just as I thought!

But thanks, MG61, for finding that post...guess I should now go back and read the rest of that thread.

THINK BIG--BUILD BIGGER!

Edited April 11, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[NT80]

The biggest improvement UNT could make, besides a new stadium, does not involve school size or on-campus residents. It is getting into a better quality (known) conference. Right now our closest conference opponent is in another state about 300 miles away. You can't sell that and it doesn't promote fan interest. We need in CUSA with other Texas schools which we can all hate. That makes rivalries and sells tickets.

[PlummMeanGreen]

The biggest improvement UNT could make, besides a new stadium, does not involve school size or on-campus residents. It is getting into a better quality (known) conference. Right now our closest conference opponent is in another state about 300 miles away. You can't sell that and it doesn't promote fan interest. We need in CUSA with other Texas schools which we can all hate. That makes rivalries and sells tickets.

Looking at attitudes of the last 30 plus years I've been around DFW and the Mean Green scene, I still don't anticipate a clamor from the SMU's, Rices, etc, etc, etc, as far as leading the way and jumping on a "Draft UNT For CUSA Membership" movement. Those folks still think like many private schoolers think and for darn sure they still can't forget that it was Texas universities about the size of UNT and larger who put them all out to pasture post-SWC implosion.

PERFECT DREAM SCENARIO FOR UNT? IMHO (and a few other fellow alums that I've seen post the same thing on this forum) would be for UNT to build a true (don't cut any corners) NCAA D1-A football stadium and then bribe the hell out of TCU to try to get us to be their travel partner in the Mountain West Conference. Now that would be a coup, although SMU'ers all over would be soiling themselves if TCU pushed for us over them; but in today's NCAA, anything is possible.

THINK BIG--BUILD BIGGER!

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

In response to UNT being a commuter school...I know that the campus is growing and increased residency is also growing but one must admit that UNT still feels like a commuter school. The reason I say this, and have mentioned it on other threds and I think it must be dealt with somehow, is how on the weekends all of the '20,000' plus students vacate Denton, leaving UNT feeling like a commuter school. Even on gamedays, though attendance in Denton is increased, people still go home. There is no sense of pride in UNT. I think us being in a better conference would def. keep more students in Denton on game days as well increase School pride.

[Mean Green 93-98]

I think us being in a better conference would def. keep more students in Denton on game days as well increase School pride.

But we're not likely to get into a better conference until we increase school pride and keep more students in Denton on game days.

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

In response to UNT being a commuter school...I know that the campus is growing and increased residency is also growing but one must admit that UNT still feels like a commuter school. The reason I say this, and have mentioned it on other threds and I think it must be dealt with somehow, is how on the weekends all of the '20,000' plus students vacate Denton, leaving UNT feeling like a commuter school. Even on gamedays, though attendance in Denton is increased, people still go home. There is no sense of pride in UNT. I think us being in a better conference would def. keep more students in Denton on game days as well increase School pride.

Well, by definition, UNT is a commuter school. That puts us in the same category as UT who is also a commuter school. It seems that more than half of the student enrollment must live in campus dorms. That would mean more than 16,000 students. Even if we fill every bed on the drawing board, we will still be a commuter school.

You could be from Paris, France, live a block from the campus, and still be considered a commuter!

As Denton continues to grow (they are expecting 40,000 new HOMES in the next ten years) there will be increased activities for students so they won't have to go to Dallas, Fort Worth, and the likes for entertainment. Restaurants in Denton are on par with almost all of the area restaurants that a student can afford. Denton is wet, unlike what it was in my day,

which was another reason for the mass exodus on weekends. I think that this will gradually improve but not drastically because something like 20,000 students are from less than 100 miles from the campus.

Many, many public colleges with enrollments of more than 10,000 are 'commiuter' schools. So, take heart, we have plenty of company and it doesn't diminish from the quality of the education received. Reminds me of politics.

[Go_UTA]

Well, by definition, UNT is a commuter school. That puts us in the same category as UT who is also a commuter school. It seems that more than half of the student enrollment must live in campus dorms. That would mean more than 16,000 students. Even if we fill every bed on the drawing board, we will still be a commuter school.

You could be from Paris, France, live a block from the campus, and still be considered a commuter!

As Denton continues to grow (they are expecting 40,000 new HOMES in the next ten years) there will be increased activities for students so they won't have to go to Dallas, Fort Worth, and the likes for entertainment. Restaurants in Denton are on par with almost all of the area restaurants that a student can afford. Denton is wet, unlike what it was in my day,

which was another reason for the mass exodus on weekends. I think that this will gradually improve but not drastically because something like 20,000 students are from less than 100 miles from the campus.

Many, many public colleges with enrollments of more than 10,000 are 'commiuter' schools. So, take heart, we have plenty of company and it doesn't diminish from the quality of the education received. Reminds me of politics.

This is an excellent post! The perspective and conclusions are right on, IMO.

The word "commuter" is usually used as a pejorative term. That's my problem with it. It has no bearing on the vitality of a campus and contributions to society of the college or university, although the users of the term usually enjoy implying so in a negative sense.

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

I dont believe by the term 'commuter school' they mean how many people sleep in dorm beds. I think rather they mean that the majority of the people come from outside the Denton area and that a majority of them work part, if not full time, while attending school. UT would not be considered a commuter school since it is in Austin with the majority of people coming from Austin. I agree that Denton is growing and will continue to grow, but so is Dallas.

Bottom line is that there has to be something to keep people in Denton on the weekends etc., and right now there isnt. What will...(in my opinion) is that the university's image changes and more people outside of the DFW area here about UNT and desire to come here. The school needs to attract more people from farther away that do not have the option to go home every weekend.

Tx State is considered a commuter school but it's lively on the weekends because people come from farther cities. Tx St. is known as a party school so people have something to keep them there on the weekends and this reputation attracts people from other cities.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

----I think we are "tagged" with the commuter school label because so many students attend here and then disappear on weekends to Dallas or elsewhere. At many colleges probably TCU, SMU, UT. and even A&M, most of their students are in town on the weekends. .... not so in Denton... many head home or elsewhere. True a lot of TCU students are not on campus during the weekend days but they back in their Dorms, apartments, etc. at night.... large part of our students aren't, they are miles away. Until that changes (if ever) we will be tagged that way. We are close to the "Action" and many student's homes (Dallas) but not close enough to keep them on campus on weekends.

---Don't hold your breath waiting for any conferences changes soon..... I still think the most unstable situation is the Big East which is very large and has a large group that doesn't play football... It could eventually come apart or at least divide... than that could effect CUSA and the Belt. I can't see the Big XII changing. Stay away from the WAC and who knows what will occur in the Mountain West.

---We are becoming "The University" of the Metroplex.... SMU is fading fast and TCU is on a roll now but can they continue it?.... plus it not all that large and a private school.

Edited April 11, 2007 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[Mad Hatter]

"Tx State is considered a commuter school but it's lively on the weekends because people come from farther cities. Tx St. is known as a party school so people have something to keep them there on the weekends and this reputation attracts people from other cities."

I love this idea..........lets make North Texas into a huge party school.

Edited April 11, 2007 by Mad Hatter

[AJR2010OX]

Any school can be considered a party school. Look, I love NT, but we have to find a way to make the other 30,000 kids love NT. Hold weekend concerts, have first run movies showing on a huge projector, do other things.

Just a question to you alumni.... was the Denton Arts and Jazz Festival one thing that got students excited about staying for the weekend.... or was it other activities?

"Tx State is considered a commuter school but it's lively on the weekends because people come from farther cities. Tx St. is known as a party school so people have something to keep them there on the weekends and this reputation attracts people from other cities."

I love this idea..........lets make North Texas into a huge party school.

Edited April 11, 2007 by AJR2010OX

[Eagle1855]

Any school can be considered a party school. Look, I love NT, but we have to find a way to make the other 30,000 kids love NT.

you could start by getting kids interested in NT that are from areas outside of DFW, like say, HOUSTON, SAN ANTONIO and AUSTIN... that would help. Seems like a lot of people I met in school went home to Lewisville or some other suburb to hang with their parents, do laundry or whatever on the weekends, which I always thought was really weird!

People in Houston still ask me what and where North Texas is. UTA has a nice big billboard south of The Woodlands coming in on I-45... I'd like to see something from NT!

And I'll take our academics over Texas State's party status ANY day.

Edited April 11, 2007 by Eagle1855

[CaribbeanGreen]

I think the commuter school thing is simple - with few exceptions, schools in, or drawing large portions of their enrollment from, large urban areas are generally considered commuter schools whether they are or not.

For some reason, the same logic doesn't apply to private schools - only the big staties.

For instance, I know next to NOTHING about UH -- what I know (ASSUME) is that is that it's a big commuter school. If it were in Magnolia, I wouldn't assume that.

Here in South Florida, The U of Miami is not considered a commuter school. It's a relatively small private school with a small enrollment (despite the athletic reputation).... just mere miles west of that campus sits FIU - still in Miami, MUCH larger enrollment, SIGNIFICANTLY more dorms and more students living on campus. However, ask anyone -- FIU = Commuter school.

Anytime you have a significant number of non-traditional students -- adults, night classes, etc. -- and you MARKET to that demographic at all, then you get branded a commuter school, whether it's technically true or not. What kind of schools do that?? Large, state schools in large urban areas.

[letsgiveacheer]

It would seem that not much has changed over the years. While I was there in the early 70's the dorms were full (three to a room at West Hall!), but when Friday drew near, the campus went empty. In fact, I recall all the big traditions, like movies in the old English building, being on Wednesday evenings rather than on a weekend.

We have plenty of company and a commuter school designation is hardly unique. In fact, within the public universities, I would suspect that only two or three schools in each state would not be commuter schools. In Texas, those schools would be UT and A&M, here in NC, they would be UNC and NC State. Virginia has more, (UVa, Va Tech, William and Mary, and VMI) but that is a unique situation.

This is something that is difficult to fight. I have no evidence to support this, but I have long felt that the way to gain loyalty and support from students is to restrict enrollment rather than grow. Make it tougher to get into North Texas. Make the high school sophomore say, "if I want to get into North Texas, I need to get 1250 on my SATs, take AP classes," etc. Then when they get here, it will mean something and their experience will be all the more significant.

[Eagle1855]

For instance, I know next to NOTHING about UH -- what I know (ASSUME) is that is that it's a big commuter school. If it were in Magnolia, I wouldn't assume that.

And it IS a big commuter school, because the areas that surround the U of H campus are rough. I certainly would not want to live there! Also, Houston isn't a college "town". Rice has a better atmosphere because it is in a nice, contained pocket of the city but it also has a tenth of the enrollment.

I think places like A&M and Tech are naturally going to have more people around on the weekends by default since they are both in the middle of nowhere. North Texas IS far enough north and in a nice enough town where you can get the college town feel without being in BFE- best of both worlds.

[CMJ]

To add to what Carribean said...on the other coast. Most of the schools in the LA Area are also commuter schools. I'd argue that even UCLA is to some degree(they escape that designation though because they have such a loyal and giving alumni base). Only USC wouldn't really fit the general definition of a commuter school. But Cal State-Northridge, Fullertson, Long Beach all have large enrollments...and nearly all are considered commuter schools.

[Go_UTA]

Any school can be considered a party school. Look, I love NT, but we have to find a way to make the other 30,000 kids love NT. Hold weekend concerts, have first run movies showing on a huge projector, do other things.

The part about holding weekend concerts caught my attention, because I remembered this site.

Maybe this is the idea. A weekend concert. I'd go to this if I were a student.

http://www.uta.edu/cacp/springfest/

Separately, 1) I wouldn't trade UNT's good academic reputation for Texas State's party reputation, either. 2) The comment about restricting enrollment intuitively sounds interesting. Big and bigger isn't necessarily better.

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

I dont think I would discredit TxSts academics. Their Business school is doing wonders, esp. their entrepreneurship program. And while TxSts 'party' reputation gets them attraction and increased enrollment, UNTs academics sure dont. You dont find people coming from far off because UNT has a great Business school or whatever (now each college does have its strengths in certain depts so Im talking overall).

I would not say Houston is anymore of a commuter school than UT is and UT is def. NOT a commuter school. I'm from Austin and grew up there.

I was informed that at TCU Freshmen and Sophmores must live on campus. Could UNT implement some sort of way to keep the Freshmen on campus....say...no cars allowed. Now before you dismiss this think about it, there are plenty of other schools that do this (though I dont know of any off hand, does Tech?)...It would encourage the Freshmen to meet people.

Another thing is TxSt has a HUGE greek scene, they are having parties all the time (not condoning). UNT's greek scene is not so happening. Everytime you throw a party the cops find out before anyone else. Not to mention that the liberal school hates the greek system and chokes them out so much they cant thrive and grow. I personally think the greek scene is one of the most important things to grow on campus. Most of the students that come to UNT from far away jump into the greek system to make friends and this keeps them here on the weekends. If the system wasnt so regulated as far as parties go then more people would want to join the greek system. You get one strike and then you get kicked off campus for 5 years. I was an SAE when we got kicked off a few years ago.

Sorry this turned into more of a vent session...

[gangrene]

UNT could start having the luck of the Rutgers who has never been a powerhouse.

If it's all the same, I'd prefer we distance ourselves from all things relating to Rutgers at the moment.