Would Rail Service To/from Dallas Help Nt Athletic Attendance?

[NT80]

Authority looks to accelerate rail project

11:49 PM CDT on Sunday, April 1, 2007

By Monty Miller Jr. / Staff Writer

The Denton County Transportation Authority is working to bring its regional passenger rail line to Denton as soon as 2010, three years earlier than projected.

The board of directors wants to fund the project without using as much federal funding, DCTA President Jon Hedrick said.

“We are looking at all available options so we can accelerate the project and get to Denton earlier,” he said.

The goal is to have a service that will eventually connect with the Dallas Area Rapid Transit line in Carrollton by 2010, instead of 2013, he said, but the project was being held up by “lengthy and complicated” delays in the application process with the federal government.

The authority will still exhaust all available options for receiving federal funding, Hedrick said, but there will be more of an emphasis on non-federal funding.

No new funding strategies have been implemented as of now, but DCTA staff is expected to present funding options to the board at a future meeting.

Work on the project continues. DCTA will soon complete an environmental study on the impact of the rail system, which is an important step, Hedrick said.

The original plan for the rail system, which was approved by voters in 2002 and 2003, was to have rail service from Lewisville to Carrollton by 2011, and service from Carrollton to Denton by 2013. If the board approves a non-federal funding strategy, Hedrick said, all services could be up and running by the end of 2010.

[UNT_playmaker]

Yes it would help

[JayDub]

DART needs to work on getting some legit rail service between downtown and DFW and Love airports. The shuttle buses to/from the TRE station takes forever. I once timed it as 2+ hours from gate to downtown.

This is what holds Dallas back in comparison to other major cities.

[SilverEagle]

Depending on where the station was in Denton, it definitely would help. I would also like to see a rail line coming out of Fort Worth and going to Denton.

Right now, the closest thing we have is AMTRAK going from downtown FW to Oklahoma city. It travels over the rail line that goes through Haslett, Justin, Ponder, Krum, and Sanger before it stops in Gainesville on it's way to Okla City.

BTW, one of the stops on this route is Norman Ok.

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServe...96&ssid=137

Edited April 2, 2007 by SilverEagle

[adman]

DART needs to work on getting some legit rail service between downtown and DFW and Love airports. The shuttle buses to/from the TRE station takes forever. I once timed it as 2+ hours from gate to downtown.

This is what holds Dallas back in comparison to other major cities.

Dart is currently building a new line that runs along Denton Dr. next to Love Field. I've not heard if the line will run to the actual terminal or just have a station on the outside of the airport but the construction is soon to cross Inwood Road.

[UNTflyer]

The original plan for the rail system, which was approved by voters in 2002 and 2003, was to have rail service from Lewisville to Carrollton by 2011, and service from Carrollton to Denton by 2013. If the board approves a non-federal funding strategy, Hedrick said, all services could be up and running by the end of 2010.

Notice how much smoother things go when the federal government isn't around to %$@* things up?

Edited April 2, 2007 by UNTflyer

[NT80]

Dart is currently building a new line that runs along Denton Dr. next to Love Field. I've not heard if the line will run to the actual terminal or just have a station on the outside of the airport but the construction is soon to cross Inwood Road.

The Dallas City Council last month changed their mind and now wants a connector train tunnel from Denton Drive under the runway to the terminal (with the Wright Amendment changes increasing flights soon). The Fed Govt said no, too costly, and that wasn't part of the city's initial grant request. Now I think the plan is to have a people-mover only tunnel from the off-airport station, no train directly to the terminal. One step forward, two steps back.

[yyz28]

The Dallas City Council last month changed their mind and now wants a connector train tunnel from Denton Drive under the runway to the terminal (with the Wright Amendment changes increasing flights soon). The Fed Govt said no, too costly, and that wasn't part of the city's initial grant request. Now I think the plan is to have a people-mover only tunnel from the off-airport station, no train directly to the terminal. One step forward, two steps back.

...and with the Dallas City Council and the Feds at the helm, we would/should/could expect any different? LOL!

[Ibleedgreen]

Speaking as someone who drives from Fort Worth to Denton everyday, I can tell you that we desperately need bus or rail service to campus from Fort Worth or somewhere in Tarrant County. I realize it's not as bad as 35E into Dallas, but traffic is getting really terrible in the morning between 820 and Alliance airport. At least there is a bus that runs to and from Dallas.

[UNTflyer]

At least there is a bus that runs to and from Dallas.

Bus doesn't really help when you've got power lines laying across I-35 at Lake Lewisville and you've got 30 minutes until the test...

[Guest Aquila_Viridis]

I think it would help if they dug a tunnel straight through the earth so that all the people in China could come to the games, except they might be on fire or molten when they arrived. They would also be highly pressurized. It would make things very intimidating for the visiting team, unless that team was from China.

[UNTFan23]

I think it would help if they dug a tunnel straight through the earth so that all the people in China could come to the games, except they might be on fire or molten when they arrived. They would also be highly pressurized. It would make things very intimidating for the visiting team, unless that team was from China.

You need to watch more movies.

[FirefightnRick]

Speaking as someone who drives from Fort Worth to Denton everyday, I can tell you that we desperately need bus or rail service to campus from Fort Worth or somewhere in Tarrant County. I realize it's not as bad as 35E into Dallas, but traffic is getting really terrible in the morning between 820 and Alliance airport. At least there is a bus that runs to and from Dallas.

You got that right. In the very least Denton is trying to get on board with the rest of the free world and use rail. I would give anything for there to also be a rail system connecting Arlington West(Currently known as Weatherford) and Fort Worth. I'd never drive to work again. Instead, in '05 when the first start up meeting of the newly formed Weatherford Transportation Authority got together the best idea they could come up with was a "Toll Road". Stupid Ass!!!!

Rick

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

---The Metroplex is crying for an EXTENSIVE rail system... Dallas has the worse downtown of any major city I have ever been to. I was in Chicago last summer and went to a White Sox game and it appears that most of the fans got there by rail. Most American cities other than NY are way behind what is available in large European cities. London, Paris, and now even Rome have a subway system and above ground rails to get people around and the inner city is alive because of it because parking is not needed and people can and will go the central area. The rails need to extend to lots of places to bring people in and to get them out to other places of interest-----colleges, sports venues, museums, parks, etc. In many major cities cars just are not needed much to travel around. Buses and trolleys connects to these stations. San Francisco which is smaller than the metroplex can be gotten around easily as well by rail.

Dallas (metroplex) is a huge city and needs better mass transportation. It is one the largest American cities now.

---For the environmentalist, rail access cuts down on big city pollution caused by cars. Many of the smaller cities of Europe have trolleys to move people around and some actually go pretty far from the center [ especially true in Amsterdam and German cities] . I remember Dallas having a trolley system when I was extremely young, some of those rails still exist in places, there were trolleys. near the State Fair grounds connecting it with downtown in the late 40's. .. Some of these systems were bought by GM and then closed..... [ some say so they could sell more buses and cars ]. I get tickled at many people who think Europe is behind America in modernization....

--- The last time I was in Amsterdam all (more than 90%) the cash registers and computers had flat screens and in America almost none of ours did at that time... They were selling flat screen TVs before we were and cell phones were commonplace in Europe before they were here [note most cell phones have Scandinavian names--Nokia, Ericsen. . We need to modernize our cities and get good mass transportation into place. People need to wake up and realize other places have gotten it right and constructed good rail systems (some have subways or a mix of above and below ground systems) in large cities. Some people just don't get it and think we Americans are on the cutting edge in everything... we aren't...at least not everything, Northern Europe is extremely progressive. The increase in gasoline prices and increased congestion has caused the size of of cars to shrink to more European size (note our old ones of the 60's, 70's) and it will help cause rail systems to appear. I guess it is liberal thinking to see we need to change quite as bit but it is needed and the conservative types like things the way they are and don't see the need to change anything... in fact-- they like the good old days..... but unfortunately for them the world changes everyday whether they like it or not..... As big cities go, Dallas has extremely conservative politicians and the situation is getting worse because they refuse to spend the money needed to modernize so pollution get worse and they build more BIG-WIDE highways and not rails.

--- Related --but may not seem so.... Europeans are a lot less fatter than Americans.... they walk more... to get to mass transportation etc. instead of driving up to the door of every store and walking a few feet. I joke about the Americans persons weight is inversely proportional to the distance they park from the door of Walmart. The heavy ones seem to hover around and wait for a close-in place to park and the thin ones will park 100's of feet away and walk.

-----Finally YES --it would help attendance some to have a rail system "close to UNT" coming from nearby places... some people just hate to drive in heavy traffic.. of course tail-gaters would still have to drive I suppose. .... LOL ... Unfortunately some Americans would not take it because they might have to walk a half of a mile which they think would just kill them (and might, considering the shape many are in).

Edited April 3, 2007 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[Go_UTA]

The European cities that have such excellent mass transportation systems "grew up" long before the automobile. Thus, they are very dense. Density, of course, makes public transportation, such as rail, extremely viable. Most American cities have come of age during the time of the automobile, thus, things are much more spread out and less ameniable to public transportation. NY, which grew-up in the horse and buggy days, is a notable exception. It is extremely dense, like the European cities, and has lots of rail. Chicago, an old American city, also has a good rail system. Boston and the northeast corridor have rail, too. All of these areas have density of population. Washington, D.C., of course, has a good rail system, but if you have the federal government paying for every thing, funding is not a problem.

I offer this as a partial explanation, not an excuse. Rail IS working, and I hope we get more of it. We have come to the point where it is just impossible to build enough highways. Besides commuter rail on existing rail beds, it seems that "light rail" is the model most used these days. Dallas' system is light rail. Salt Lake City and other western cities have nice, new systems.

Yeah, everybody wants it now. That is a big change in attitude and realization.

For this area, everybody has seen how successful DART rail is. Cities are also taking note of the development that goes on around the stations, such as at Mockingbird Station, etc.

[RamoneArchie]

Would it help attendance? It couldn't hurt, but I don't think it would make a significant enough impact on athletic attendance. And let's be real when we talk about attendance we mean football games. I haven't read all of these posts, but do you really think that a bus service from Dallas and Fort Worth would boost attendance significantly? For some reason we have a hard time gaining student support at games. I've known people who have told me that in their 4-5 years at UNT that they've only attended 1 or 2 games, and not even the entire game. These people lived in Denton. When I played (97-99) people would say, "Well, if you guys would win some games we'd come see you." Well, they won. Four years in a roll (okay that first 5 win season doesn't count) and attendance is still horrible. I end with this. If students won't roll out of bed on Saturday afternoons to go see a game on campus, why would they won't to catch a bus on a Saturday afternoon from Fort Worth or Dallas to watch a game. By the way, STUDENTS GET IN GAMES FREE!

On a different note, it would be popular for commutor students. They would save a ton on gas!

Just my opinion.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Another time-table that probably should be (seriously) fast-forwarded is TXDot's expansion of I35-E (especially near the Fouts Field area).

Sorta' sad that our state leadership in the past decade(s) failed to plan ahead for an interstate expansion with their knowing the Metroplex would grow to its present population of approx. 6 million (with more substantial growth on the way).

We all know I35E from Dallas to Denton has long been a nightmare, but it has amazed me to see I35W from Fort Worth to Denton become as busy as it has; but again, 6 million people spread out in (even) a 5 county area might tend to fill many of our Metroplex roads to the max.

In 10 years, I 've seen a difference in the Parker County traffic, especially off Interstate 20 (and I'd bet FFR would concur).

THINK BIG--BUILD BIGGER!

Edited April 3, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[UNTLifer]

Sorta' sad that our state leadership in the past decade(s) failed to plan ahead for an interstate expansion with their knowing the Metroplex would grow to its present population of approx. 6 million (with more substantial growth on the way).

THINK BIG--BUILD BIGGER!

If this were infringing on Kyle Field, Perry would ensure that a bridge span that freaking pet cemetary in the endzone.

[NT80]

A friend got me to ride the special/express DART Rail train to a Mavs game recently. I would have otherwise driven and paid $15 for parking and been stressed waiting in traffic. DART was I think $1 each way and very smooth. We relaxed and chatted the whole way, although it did make about 10-12 stops. The point being I could see if there was a convenient DART connection to Denton some Dallas-area fans might hop on it as opposed to driving I-35 up for a game. Just another option.

Edited April 3, 2007 by NT80

[SilverEagle]

Since the game (as of right now) will start at 6:00pm, then a group could take AMTRAK up there on Friday night and return early Sunday morning.

[FirefightnRick]

We have come to the point where it is just impossible to build enough highways.

Not according to some braintrusts(See my post above about Weatherford TA). In today's American transportation system in which we are allowing some 55,000 americans to slaughter themselves on U.S. Highways the WTA thinks it's best to not only continue to add to the problem of road congestion, but also to use up more fuel and waste lives doing it.

On a side note, I wished the american public could see itself through my firetruck's windshield as I do when the weather turns bad(ice, flooding rains etc). The level of ignorance and stupidity is enough to scare the living hell out of me. The lack of safe-driving practices and concern for personal and public safety is appaling, and it's accepted for some reason?

Rick

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

The European cities that have such excellent mass transportation systems "grew up" long before the automobile. Thus, they are very dense. Density, of course, makes public transportation, such as rail, extremely viable. Most American cities have come of age during the time of the automobile, thus, things are much more spread out and less ameniable to public transportation. NY, which grew-up in the horse and buggy days, is a notable exception. It is extremely dense, like the European cities, and has lots of rail. Chicago, an old American city, also has a good rail system. Boston and the northeast corridor have rail, too. All of these areas have density of population. Washington, D.C., of course, has a good rail system, but if you have the federal government paying for every thing, funding is not a problem.

I offer this as a partial explanation, not an excuse. Rail IS working, and I hope we get more of it. We have come to the point where it is just impossible to build enough highways. Besides commuter rail on existing rail beds, it seems that "light rail" is the model most used these days. Dallas' system is light rail. Salt Lake City and other western cities have nice, new systems.

Yeah, everybody wants it now. That is a big change in attitude and realization.

For this area, everybody has seen how successful DART rail is. Cities are also taking note of the development that goes on around the stations, such as at Mockingbird Station, etc.

----There is a lot of truth in what you have said but it is not completely true. Rome had no system 30 years ago and now it is building subways and it has the additional problem of digging into historic sites. Considering most run on electricity those systems were constructed since good electrical systems became available.. they are not all that old... or at least most of each system is not. A lot of American cities had some type of trolley system but most of them are now gone.

---The point now is people do see how good the sytem is and they need to get land for a system in the area that are not that well developed yet or in places that are deteriorating and land is available. When land is not available... I guess start digging....that is what Europe, NY and some others have done. or in Chicago's case build elevated routes. I flew into Chicago last summer and took the rail into central Chicago...(the last part was elevated).... Some cities have just closed streets and made them into rail routes... they take less space than roads to carry the same amt of people. . There is a way if they want to think about it.

Edited April 3, 2007 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[mean gruene]

ok you do realize that the station is planned for east of the square and not over by the campus. it also wont run late at night so students that have night classes or labs are up a creek. and if it were to boost attendance how would they get from the station to the field?

[BleedGreen64]

Someone mentioned Perry, recently I had call to drive from Brenham through Navasota to College Station and found they were asdding 6 more lanes to the 4 lane highway there - I can not believe they have that big a need - just pork barrel favortism.

Since I now drive to the games from Ennis and walk a long way to the stdium it might be nice to take mass transit and then a bus or whatever up to the stadium gate - especially as zi get older.

[Go_UTA]

----There is a lot of truth in what you have said but it is not completely true. Rome had no system 30 years ago and now it is building subways and it has the additional problem of digging into historic sites. Considering most run on electricity those systems were constructed since good electrical systems became available.. they are not all that old... or at least most of each system is not. A lot of American cities had some type of trolley system but most of them are now gone.

---The point now is people do see how good the sytem is and they need to get land for a system in the area that are not that well developed yet or in places that are deteriorating and land is available. When land is not available... I guess start digging....that is what Europe, NY and some others have done. or in Chicago's case build elevated routes. I flew into Chicago last summer and took the rail into central Chicago...(the last part was elevated).... Some cities have just closed streets and made them into rail routes... they take less space than roads to carry the same amt of people. . There is a way if they want to think about it.

Okay, I'm going to be pedantic. I contend that my premise is true, but, of course, not exhaustive (which it does not have to be). I didn't say that every European city has a large subway system. (But, many, many do.) The point is that these cities typically "came of age" before the automobile, and, thus, are very dense. Density is the friend of mass transportation. The subway system in an old city may be old or new.