How Do You Explain It?

[FirefightnRick]

I was thinking about this '07 NT basketall team and their 4 straight game winning streak they went on during the post season tournament and how very similar it is to the 5 straight game winning streak the '01 football team went on to win conference that put us into our first bowl game in 40 some odd years. NT finshed the '00 season 3-8, then started out 0-5 the next year. The conference opener was a loss to ULM helping them break the nation's longest current losing streak at 11 I believe and most felt it was past due for a change. Then for some reason they went on the winning streak. And to this day I have asked ex coaches and players that were there back then just exactly what turned it around, starting with the win over a 5-0 MUTS team, and no one seems to be able to explain it. The players just say, "we wanted it more" but for fans it's hard to explain?

Then there is our basketball team. If you talk to those who have been around NT basketball for many years they have for some time now clearly pointed out that this is the most physically talented team ever. They certainly are overwhelmingly more phyically talented than the '88 team in my oppinion. This '07 team went into the post-season tournament as a 5th seed and won it all to get to the Big Dance. But this current team has had it's vices too, and I think it's safe to say many felt that it was underachieving for the most part since JJ's first season 5 years ago. For me the free throws, lack of intensity on defense at times to protect the 3 line and an inability to break a press with consistency had me worried. But damn they could rebound and often times absolutely fly to the hole. Then there were the strange game time decisions such as the questionable timeouts and not guarding the in bounds pass, much of these things also were of concern. But as someone said earlier(gangreen maybe?) when it comes down to tournament time it all comes down to who gets hot at the right time. True, but the fact that NT won two of the 4 tourney games without KD gets me to thinking about it all and how anyone could possibly explain the run this team went on?

I spoke with the alway's knowledgible Buford Julep prior to one of the last conference home games. He's watched this team probably closer than anyone else and in talking with him he seemed to think we were on course for something great down the road. He outright did not care for the "fire JJ" talk and that led me to believe down inside that maybe JJ would possibly turn this thing around. Still I had my concerns. I don't know. I've had a few days to think it all over since getting back from Lafayette and it's just an amazing turn of events, much like that amazing day at Fouts against the MUTS.

Just before E and I got back on the road we drove the Mean Green F150 over to the team buses to congratulate them one more time. I pointed out to them my collegiate license plates that state very clear how I feel about the Mean Green in general..."NT WINS". You know, a guy can take a beating at times driving around the metroplex making that statement on his personal vehicle and as it has been said many times before, sometimes, "It aint easy being Mean Green". But I don't give a shit. The education you get for the price you pay, to when you WIN on the court, or WIN in the classroom, or WIN in the research lab, it's all relevant to being a WINNER at North Texas and for me if you make the decision to attend North Texas, YOU WIN!, regardless.

As several of the players got off to come down and talk to us and take pictures of my truck I couldn't help notice the smiles on their faces combined with the obvious signs of exhaustion from the game. A priceless scene to say the least. I wondered at that moment if they fully realized how much of an impact they had made on all of us that night? I hope so. I hope they realize it, but if not right away now, they cetainly will down the road because they had just taken "NT WINS" to the grandest of stages and we will all reap the rewards of it for years to come.

Rick

[CMJ]

Nice post Rick.

I really hope this is the start of something truly great. Let's turn into Gonzaga or something.

[Double Eagle]

Rick,

You did a fine job expressing the feelings of many of us long-time loyal North Texas fans. Thanks! The casual fan doesn't know what he is missing.

[Green Mean]

People should always take pride in their school regardless of win or lose. You're definitely a great fan FFR and most of all you seem like a person that really cares for the team itself and not just if they win or lose. A question in my mind just arose and do you guys think that perhaps people at NT dont have the school spirit like other schools is due to the fact that most of them are from the DFW area and in general this area has a lot of the fair weather types of fans?

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

People should always take pride in their school regardless of win or lose. You're definitely a great fan FFR and most of all you seem like a person that really cares for the team itself and not just if they win or lose. A question in my mind just arose and do you guys think that perhaps people at NT dont have the school spirit like other schools is due to the fact that most of them are from the DFW area and in general this area has a lot of the fair weather types of fans?

--- You mentioned something that I have sort of touched on..... It is my belief that that people who have grown up up in "smaller" towns are more usually passionate about their background, have more pride in themselves (I don't mean vanity) , their school, and other groups they are a member. I know one thing that when West Texas football teams play big-city metroplex teams IN the metroplex---we usually briing more fans from maybe 200-300 miles away than they have present from less than 50 miles away. A lot of students at Tech and maybe surprisingly A&M are from smaller towns (by that I mean 100,000 or less with 1-2-3 high schools) I know nothing about UT's make-up but it carries the state name so that makes it a different "cat" anyway. My personal kids that went to NT noticed the same thing that big-city kids are much different in many ways. Rick is about as rabid as it it gets apparently.... his hometown (Weatherford) is/was not all that large. A lot more of us are similiar just not quite as open about it. It is also seems true that this type of person don't give up or become discouraged very quickly either.... perhaps because they know others are supporting what they are trying to do. These people take it more personal when their friends, teams, and schools win or lose. To me, it sort of explains why UNT fans don't show the pride many other places do.... they are too big-city and don't take success or the lack of it very personal. ---Sort of different but not really... I don't even understand some here that want other Texas teams to fail against outsiders ... after all I/we are Texans ... [ I make an exception for SMU because of how they have treated us ]

--Now how to fix our problem with our students/fans... I don't know..... but it has to do with them improving pride in ourselves and from where they went to college. When you start hearing WE won instead of our team won....it is partly fixed.

---I have been around awhile (always in Texas and a son of Texans) and this is my observation from being around for several decades.

Edited March 10, 2007 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[Double Eagle]

Being a big city high school educator for 38 years, I totally agree with you, Screaming Eagle. Over the years, loyalty to one's high school and support of athletics, in general, has diminished. Too many distractions and split loyalty among many schools from the community. It is totally different in one high school towns. So, we have to build our own fans, starting with freshman orientation. There will be resistance from some freshmen, but not all--we just need to cultivate one proud student at a time. We keep plugging away..then follow up with an entertaining product that makes an athletic event a fun place to join your friends. This will not happen quickly or easily, but progress has been made and we need to keep up the battle and not get discouraged.

Personally, I think our new President will be very helpful in our cause and students will see this. It all begins at the top and we seem to have a good start in that area. We, as alums, need to show our school pride in our communities and promote our university in all the ways we can (wear your UNT shirts). Visiablity is crucial and it is free. If people see the pride we have in the university, it will spread. We are located in different parts of the state, so we can have an impact on a large area. Sometimes the small things work the best--try to recruit at least one new fan in your home town this year and this can grow exponentially.

GO MEAN GREEN!

[AJR2010OX]

I disagree with the big city notion. I come from a city (Plano) of more than 275,000 people of all backgrounds, and when Plano West plays Plano or Plano East plays Plano or Plano East plays Plano West, you can get 15,000 people at John Clark Field. I'm just as rabid about my UNT sports as well. I cheer as hard as I can for basketball, football and whatever other sports I'm at. I see other big city kids from Austin, Houston, Arlington, cheering just as hard. I dont think its a debate of big city vs small city passion. Look at Dallas for example. When Lincoln plays Carter, or whoever else, they draw a huge crowd. I see it at UNT. I see some small city kids sitting in their dorms during football and basketball games, not really caring about what goes on. By the way, theres a ton of kids at A&M from big city towns too. The fact that College STation sucks as a city as well as Bryan contributes to the rabidness of the fans. Also, tradition carries a big part too. If I remember someone on this board said before RV there was no tailgating. Thats something that kills fans. As long as North Texas continues winning, and we do ssomething to spruce up Denton, UNT, and the athletics of UNT more people will come. I also want to do something to diiscourage commuters, and lower the average age of this school. I'm tired of seeing 3-6 apathetic 40 year olds in my classes (no offense to those of that age on the board). There shouldnt be a big city vs small city debate. Its UNT vs apathy.

Being a big city high school educator for 38 years, I totally agree with you, Screaming Eagle. Over the years, loyalty to one's high school and support of athletics, in general, has diminished. Too many distractions and split loyalty among many schools from the community. It is totally different in one high school towns. So, we have to build our own fans, starting with freshman orientation. There will be resistance from some freshmen, but not all--we just need to cultivate one proud student at a time. We keep plugging away..then follow up with an entertaining product that makes an athletic event a fun place to join your friends. This will not happen quickly or easily, but progress has been made and we need to keep up the battle and not get discouraged.

Personally, I think our new President will be very helpful in our cause and students will see this. It all begins at the top and we seem to have a good start in that area. We, as alums, need to show our school pride in our communities and promote our university in all the ways we can (wear your UNT shirts). Visiablity is crucial and it is free. If people see the pride we have in the university, it will spread. We are located in different parts of the state, so we can have an impact on a large area. Sometimes the small things work the best--try to recruit at least one new fan in your home town this year and this can grow exponentially.

GO MEAN GREEN!

[GMoney]

nation's longest current losing streak at 11

That losing streak was 19 games!

[Double Eagle]

Being a big city high school educator for 38 years, I totally agree with you, Screaming Eagle. Over the years, loyalty to one's high school and support of athletics, in general, has diminished. Too many distractions and split loyalty among many schools from the community. It is totally different in one high school towns. So, we have to build our own fans, starting with freshman orientation. There will be resistance from some freshmen, but not all--we just need to cultivate one proud student at a time. We keep plugging away..then follow up with an entertaining product that makes an athletic event a fun place to join your friends. This will not happen quickly or easily, but progress has been made and we need to keep up the battle and not get discouraged.

Personally, I think our new President will be very helpful in our cause and students will see this. It all begins at the top and we seem to have a good start in that area. We, as alums, need to show our school pride in our communities and promote our university in all the ways we can (wear your UNT shirts). Visiablity is crucial and it is free. If people see the pride we have in the university, it will spread. We are located in different parts of the state, so we can have an impact on a large area. Sometimes the small things work the best--try to recruit at least one new fan in your home town this year and this can grow exponentially.

GO MEAN GREEN!

[Double Eagle]

How many people attended the games when there is not an inter-city rivalry match up?

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

How many people attended the games when there is not an inter-city rivalry match up?

--- In West Texas expect a minimun of 10,000 and maybe 15,000 we we play most HS football games (inter-city or intra-city)which includes (Midland ,Odessa,Abilene, San Angelo,Lubbock, all of which are is close ---close meaning under 150 miles and about a 2 hr drive....Even 20,000 Brownwood usually has about 8000 , some locals and some visiting fans.. Basketball drews pretty good crowds as well .... after Christmas.

--I did state most big-city schools....Plano and South Lake are exceptions but considering the enrollment of Plano high schools that is not a real large attendence. The crowds have declined there (percent-wise) as the town has gotten larger and more into a big-city mode. Most large-cityschools can up with a good crown for one of their games.. their arch rival... but not the rest.... Try 40,000 + for a Midland Lee-Permian game.... played in Lubbock... 120 miles north as a playoff game..... or about 35,000 for a Brownwood-Cleburne AAAA game played at TCU (regular season). It happened in the 80's and neither town had 25,000 people. They were ranked #1 and #2 at the time.

[CaribbeanGreen]

They were ranked #1 and #2 at the time.

And there's your key.

Sure, when you have a tradition like Permian or Lee or Brownwood, and that's how the town basically defines itself and that's what they've got, you'll have that situation. But go across the very same town to Midland High or Odessa High and it's not HALF what the big school is (yes, i know that's flipped a little lately, but you get what i'm saying, right?). Check out small towns all OVER the plains to the panhandle without winning teams or much tradition, and you'll find crowds no better than any in the "big cities" -- even when it's the only show in town.

When "city" schools are winning, have a few straight years of good teams, etc -- they pack their stadiums just like they do out west. SLC-Trinity set records - but if you say "well, don't count SLC, Trinity, Plano, etc" then I would say "don't count Permian, Lee, Brownwood, etc".. what do we have then? When I went to HS (Lake Highlands) we didn't lose a home game in my entire 4 years, went to the state semifinals three times - every game was SRO, and they added temporary seating when Plano or someone like that came in. Now, they're not that good, and I doubt it's the same - though I know they still draw well.

The only difference I see is the abundance of competing entertainment options in the big cities, which makes their attendance really all the more impressive. Show me 10 schools out west that fill their stadiums every Friday night, and I'll show you 50 in D/FW, Houston, Austin, and San Antonio that do the exact same thing. I bet they all have one of two things in common - BIG tradition, or winning. Often both.

It a nutshell, my argument is this -- win. win. win. Period. It fixes everything, it builds tradition, it fills the seats.

If that doesn't work, you can always put up some more posters.

[SilverEagle]

I disagree with the big city notion. I come from a city (Plano) of more than 275,000 people of all backgrounds, and when Plano West plays Plano or Plano East plays Plano or Plano East plays Plano West, you can get 15,000 people at John Clark Field. I'm just as rabid about my UNT sports as well. I cheer as hard as I can for basketball, football and whatever other sports I'm at. I see other big city kids from Austin, Houston, Arlington, cheering just as hard. I dont think its a debate of big city vs small city passion. Look at Dallas for example. When Lincoln plays Carter, or whoever else, they draw a huge crowd. I see it at UNT. I see some small city kids sitting in their dorms during football and basketball games, not really caring about what goes on. By the way, theres a ton of kids at A&M from big city towns too. The fact that College STation sucks as a city as well as Bryan contributes to the rabidness of the fans. Also, tradition carries a big part too. If I remember someone on this board said before RV there was no tailgating. Thats something that kills fans. As long as North Texas continues winning, and we do ssomething to spruce up Denton, UNT, and the athletics of UNT more people will come. I also want to do something to diiscourage commuters, and lower the average age of this school. I'm tired of seeing 3-6 apathetic 40 year olds in my classes (no offense to those of that age on the board). There shouldnt be a big city vs small city debate. Its UNT vs apathy.

Plano's football tradition started long before it became a city of 275K. My HS (Decatur) used to play Plano in the 60's when Plano had already established it's football tradition while it was a small farming community. Everyone who came to Plano afterward embraced that tradition, and/or they were drawn to Plano because of that tradition.

The same thing applies to South Lake Carrol. They established their winning tradition as a small 1-A (the same as present day 2-A) program and it continued unchanged as they moved up in classification. Again, people who wanted to have their kids go to a school with a winning tradition were drawn to South Lake.

Edited March 10, 2007 by SilverEagle

[Double Eagle]

My perspective was a historical one. Those of us who have been around awhile (high school in the 60's), I think, will agree whether small town or large town, in general, weekly support of high school athletic events has declined over the years as more entertainment options have become available. My point was that we cannot take for granted that freshman (or transfer students, for that matter) come to us with the innate desire to support UNT athletics. It has to be cultivated and that will take persistent and consistent effort. Of course, it is much easier when we are winning, but we have to take the same attitude about instilling pride whether we are winning or not. These are the students that become loyal alums, give money to the university, and support its efforts. So, those of you working freshman orientation....don't give up...every fan you make is one more we didn't have before!

[Talon90]

The small town/big town thing means nothing. I am from Richardson with four high schools and have always bled UNT green and I know numerous diehard alumni who are from big cities that are the same way.

[Green Mean]

I'm from Plano as well. Plano and Southlake are two different turkeys because they actually do have some more spirit than many other districts when you compare them I think. However as Plano has gotten much bigger people have cared less. All three of the senior high schools are huge considering they are only two grades. Most of the people that I knew in hs never went to one football game or any hs sports event. But when my older brothers graduated most people went to the games and there was a ton of buzz about it. Keep in mind my brothers are 8 and 10 years older than me and at that time there was just Plano and Plano East.

[CaribbeanGreen]

I'm from Plano as well. Plano and Southlake are two different turkeys because they actually do have some more spirit than many other districts when you compare them I think. However as Plano has gotten much bigger people have cared less. All three of the senior high schools are huge considering they are only two grades. Most of the people that I knew in hs never went to one football game or any hs sports event. But when my older brothers graduated most people went to the games and there was a ton of buzz about it. Keep in mind my brothers are 8 and 10 years older than me and at that time there was just Plano and Plano East.

8 to 10 years ago Plano was really good. Just a couple years ago, they had an 0-10 season. That'll do it.

[Green Mean]

8 to 10 years ago Plano was really good. Just a couple years ago, they had an 0-10 season. That'll do it.

Yeah thats true too but I remember that even when you were mediocre people still cared. Last year Plano went 9-1 until they lost to SLC in the playoffs....I had one of my friends brother who attended Plano say that unless it was the rival games versus Plano East and Plano West and the playoff games NO ONE went to the games. Cant really say how it is now tho as I have not been to a hs football game in ages.

[NT80]

8 to 10 years ago Plano was really good. Just a couple years ago, they had an 0-10 season. That'll do it.

That would be Coach Brence responsible for that!