Unt Vs. Louisiana - Monroe

foutsrouts · February 11, 2007

Anyone who says Sturns' turnover tendencies are overrated doesnt watch many North Texas basketball games....he is doing better but he plays so out of control it isn't even funny

I've seen eight games this season, and you're right that Sturns has improved on his turnover to steals ratio quite a bit after the first quarter of the season. A lot of times I think he looks more out of control than he really is because he's such a good athlete and that's just the way that he plays the game. I know that Sturns has his problems, I'm just saying that with all of these close games we need all of the firepower we can get and Sturns and company are probably a better option than Bell.

A point guard who's "OK" defensively, has well below average offensive numbers, and who gets less than one assist for every ten minutes of playing time shouldn't be getting the minutes that he is getting. It might be different if he was a clutch player in crunch time, but I hate to even see our point guard go to the line in the last couple of minutes of the game. I know our options are limited, but I think Davis should be running the point more often with some of the other guys sharing close to half of Bell's minutes.

To tell you the truth, I should be complaining about Watson's numbers and his one dimensional game also. But then again, it's not the players but our Commander in Chief who's responsible for making all of these adjustments and decisions.

e-bone ver2.awesome · February 11, 2007

You old folks crack me up....funny post.. keep them coming... name them if you wish, but also name all the programs that tried and failed. Without even Googling (hehe), I guarantee the failed column would far exceed the Cinderella stories.

That's the spirit! Instead of expecting more, let's settle for less! I mean, we can't expect a good coach to do anything good here, can we? With JJ, at least we know we will be competitive in those loses! Go Mean Green, baby!

chrisfisher · February 11, 2007

That's the spirit! Instead of expecting more, let's settle for less! I mean, we can't expect a good coach to do anything good here, can we? With JJ, at least we know we will be competitive in those loses! Go Mean Green, baby!

That's not even what I said...not by a long a shot so please remove your blinders.....every day, this basketball forum gets more and more boring...same old daily grind. I think I'm just going to stop responding to these posts....it only encourages y'all to keep this up... And sorry man, my daughter and I will enjoy being fans this season no matter how hard you try to persuade us not too.

e-bone ver2.awesome · February 11, 2007

That's not even what I said...not by a long a shot so please remove your blinders.....every day, this basketball forum gets more and more boring...same old daily grind. I think I'm just going to stop responding to these posts....it only encourages y'all to keep this up... And sorry man, my daughter and I will enjoy being fans this season no matter how hard you try to persuade us not too.

Have I ever said to not be fans? That's not what I said, not by a long shot. Because fans who have been around for more than a year, who are tired of the same thing every season from JJ and Slinker, and who want to see some accountability for our coaches from the AD, it doesn't mean we aren't fans and don't want others to be fans. So please, remove your blinders.

ColoradoEagle · February 11, 2007

No ebone. Either you support the Mean Green, or you kill puppies.

Zeke · February 11, 2007

That's not even what I said...not by a long a shot so please remove your blinders.....every day, this basketball forum gets more and more boring...same old daily grind. I think I'm just going to stop responding to these posts....it only encourages y'all to keep this up... And sorry man, my daughter and I will enjoy being fans this season no matter how hard you try to persuade us not too.

Why can't I cheer hard every game for a Mean Green victory but still think that the man running the show won't be able to get us where we want to go? (Warning: Its been more than 5 years since I have been to Prom, so I may not know what I am talking about)

Coach · February 11, 2007

I think I'm just going to stop responding to these posts....

Best idea I have read in a long time.

Keith7 · February 12, 2007

Best idea I have read in a long time.

I agree no use in argueing with these guys.. havn't u learned that if you havn't been a mean green fan for more than a season you arn't qualified to have an opinion? :rolleyes: even if you have most likely seen more games then the person attempting to argue with you this season

Edited February 12, 2007 by Keith7

Coach · February 12, 2007

I don't care how many seasons someone has been a fan, how many games they went to...or even if they struggle with basic words containing an apostrophe, a terrible basketball post is a terrible basketball post.

I have to go re-do my NBA mock draft, I had Rich Young going in the second round, but his play of late may have vaulted him into the lottery.

Edited February 12, 2007 by Coach

CaribbeanGreen · February 12, 2007

A more valid comparison may be to find a D1 school coach with a tenure of 6 years or more who hasn't advanced beyond the 2nd round of their own conference tournament and hasn't placed first at any point in regular season record.

No, really. I mean it. I'm genuinely interested.

untbowler · February 12, 2007

A more valid comparison may be to find a D1 school coach with a tenure of 6 years or more who hasn't advanced beyond the 2nd round of their own conference tournament and hasn't placed first at any point in regular season record.
No, really. I mean it. I'm genuinely interested.

Very true not sure where to look as most would probably have been fired after year 5. Maybe Slinker in her first 6 years.

Also love the avatar "Soda Popinski" the days of Punch Out.

foutsrouts · February 12, 2007

ya u throw out all those stats but forget to mention that Sturn's turnovers OFF THE BENCH are almost twice as many as the person in 2nd with turnovers.. I like sturns and I think he will be a huge key to our success next season, but right now he should stay as he is, a spark off the bench..

Almost twice as many turnovers as the next guy? Turnovers as of 2/10/07: Sturns 66, Wooden 57, Bell 53, Williams 52, Watson 51. Must be that funny math stuff.

untbowler · February 12, 2007

Almost twice as many turnovers as the next guy? Turnovers as of 2/10/07: Sturns 66, Wooden 57, Bell 53, Williams 52, Watson 51. Must be that funny math stuff.

FACTS!!! We don't need NO STINKIN FACTS!! :blink:

Keith7 · February 12, 2007

Almost twice as many turnovers as the next guy? Turnovers as of 2/10/07: Sturns 66, Wooden 57, Bell 53, Williams 52, Watson 51. Must be that funny math stuff.

if you look at turnovers / minutes play then yes that is almost twice as much.. no funny math involved

oh and 44 assists to 66 turnovers.. those are stats that make me want him to get more P.T. at point guard

Edited February 12, 2007 by Keith7

foutsrouts · February 12, 2007

if you look at turnovers / minutes play then yes that is almost twice as much.. no funny math involved
oh and 44 assists to 66 turnovers.. those are stats that make me want him to get more P.T. at point guard

Twice as much and no funny math involved? Let's see.

Sturns at 478 minutes and 66 turnovers equals one turnover every 7.24 minutes.

Wooden at 562 minutes and 57 turnovers equals one turnover every 9.86 minutes.

Is 9.86 nearly twice as much as 7.24? Don't think so. And if you use numbers from the second half of the season they're much more favorable to Sturns.

Oh and if you want to talk minutes, Bell averages .21 points per minute vs. Sturns' .69 points per minute.

Looks like Sturns scores at well over three times the pace of Bell. Maybe we could use some of that in these tight games.

I just knew that accounting degree would come in handy someday.

Keith7 · February 12, 2007

ok I guess I should have given u the correct formula for this to make it more clear.. but, Sturns averages roughly 20 minutes per game (we'll give him that to make the math easier and it will also make him look alittle better), but he has 66 total turnovers, you divide the 66 turnovers by the 20 minutes per game he plays and he averages 3.3 turnovers per game.. now you look at Bell's turnover / minutes played (because we all know Wooden isn't going to be running the point) and he averages 30.5 minutes a game but only has 53 total turnovers, which again you divide the 53 turnovers to the 30.5 minutes pergame and he averages 1.7 turnovers per game which is pretty darn close to twice as much.. I guess if you are pretending that everyone plays the same amount of minutes then the turnover math might become confusing, but if u use useful stats it can be pretty easy to figure out

Edited February 12, 2007 by Keith7

GrandGreen · February 13, 2007

Bell statistics 6.4 ppg, 3.3 rbpg, 3.1 apg, 2.1 topg

If Sturns played the same minutes and maintained his same statistics his numbers would be

Sturns statistics based on 30.5 minutes a game: 21.0 ppg, 5.9 rbpg, 2.8 apg, 4.2 topg

Yes it obvious that Bell's stats are better in ball handling but you are giving up a lot of offense. Sturns might have twice the turnovers but he has three times the points.

mwynn05 · February 13, 2007

Bell statistics 6.4 ppg, 3.3 rbpg, 3.1 apg, 2.1 topg
If Sturns played the same minutes and maintained his same statistics his numbers would be
Sturns statistics based on 30.5 minutes a game: 21.0 ppg, 5.9 rbpg, 2.8 apg, 4.2 topg
Yes it obvious that Bell's stats are better in ball handling but you are giving up a lot of offense. Sturns might have twice the turnovers but he has three times the points.

what you dont understand though is if sturns started it takes touches away from kd calvin watson and the bigs.....that and hes just too erratic.....there is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much more to the game than #'s bell sets more of a pace we want to play sturns does good to change the pace as a spark off the bench....once more NUMBERS DO NOT TELL THE ENTIRE STORY

Edited February 13, 2007 by mwynn05

UNTFan23 · February 13, 2007

what you dont understand though is if sturns started it takes touches away from kd calvin watson and the bigs.....that and hes just too erratic.....there is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much more to the game than #'s bell sets more of a pace we want to play sturns does good to change the pace as a spark off the bench....once more NUMBERS DO NOT TELL THE ENTIRE STORY

You so right. I mean, I'd rather have Bell driving to the basket (25-38 .658%) then Sturns (73-104 .702%).

GrandGreen · February 13, 2007

what you dont understand though is if sturns started it takes touches away from kd calvin watson and the bigs.....that and hes just too erratic.....there is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much more to the game than #'s bell sets more of a pace we want to play sturns does good to change the pace as a spark off the bench....once more NUMBERS DO NOT TELL THE ENTIRE STORY

I am glad you know what I understand and don't understand. Talk about high powered analysis, who would have thought anyone taking a shoot would be lowering attempts for the rest of the team? If you read my post, my only statement was that Sturns is a much better offensive option than Bell. I did not state a preference for either getting more playing time.

mwynn05 · February 13, 2007

I am glad you know what I understand and don't understand. Talk about high powered analysis, who would have thought anyone taking a shoot would be lowering attempts for the rest of the team? If you read my post, my only statement was that Sturns is a much better offensive option than Bell. I did not state a preference for either getting more playing time.

im not so much singling you out the topic being discussed seems to be that sturns should play more than bell

foutsrouts · February 13, 2007

ok I guess I should have given u the correct formula for this to make it more clear.. but, Sturns averages roughly 20 minutes per game (we'll give him that to make the math easier and it will also make him look alittle better), but he has 66 total turnovers, you divide the 66 turnovers by the 20 minutes per game he plays and he averages 3.3 turnovers per game.. now you look at Bell's turnover / minutes played (because we all know Wooden isn't going to be running the point) and he averages 30.5 minutes a game but only has 53 total turnovers, which again you divide the 53 turnovers to the 30.5 minutes pergame and he averages 1.7 turnovers per game which is pretty darn close to twice as much.. I guess if you are pretending that everyone plays the same amount of minutes then the turnover math might become confusing, but if u use useful stats it can be pretty easy to figure out

My numbers are correct and are based on YOUR comparison between Sturns and the guy (Wooden) with the second most turnovers on the team. If you read my posts you will also see that I never said I wanted Sturns to take over the point guard position. I said that I wanted Davis to assume more point guard duties and for Sturns to get more minutes which I believe should come at the expense of Bell.

This team seems too dependent on the three point shooting accuracy of Watson to win games, and I think we desperately need the additional firepower that Sturns can provide if we're going to have any reasonable chance to win the SBC tourney. Are you really satisfied with the status quo and do you honestly think this team is playing well enough right now to blow through the SBC and make the NCAA's? If you are fine. If not, what adjustments would you suggest that JJ make to give us more than a snowball's chance to put together enough road victories in a row to win the tourney? I say we need addtional offense in a big way and giving Sturns more minutes may be about our only option to make that happen.

By the way, if you consider the most recent and relevant turnover statistics which are turnovers during SBC play, Sturns is number FIVE on the team in TOTAL turnovers while Bell is number FOUR in TOTAL turnovers. It's pretty obvious that Sturns has improved his ball control over the second half of the season.

risinggreen · February 13, 2007

My numbers are correct and are based on YOUR comparison between Sturns and the guy (Wooden) with the second most turnovers on the team. If you read my posts you will also see that I never said I wanted Sturns to take over the point guard position. I said that I wanted Davis to assume more point guard duties and for Sturns to get more minutes which I believe should come at the expense of Bell.
This team seems too dependent on the three point shooting accuracy of Watson to win games, and I think we desperately need the additional firepower that Sturns can provide if we're going to have any reasonable chance to win the SBC tourney. Are you really satisfied with the status quo and do you honestly think this team is playing well enough right now to blow through the SBC and make the NCAA's? If you are fine. If not, what adjustments would you suggest that JJ make to give us more than a snowball's chance to put together enough road victories in a row to win the tourney? I say we need addtional offense in a big way and giving Sturns more minutes may be about our only option to make that happen.
By the way, if you consider the most recent and relevant turnover statistics which are turnovers during SBC play, Sturns is number FIVE on the team in TOTAL turnovers while Bell is number FOUR in TOTAL turnovers. It's pretty obvious that Sturns has improved his ball control over the second half of the season.

I agree give Sturns more minutes. Jones ain't gonna change his coaching philosophy at this stage of the game and we need to find a way to put more points on the board. I like his one on one game if Jones would give him the chance to work it. We hardly ever seem to be able to put anyone away by the five minute mark because we look like we are laxing off instead of attacking the basket late in the game. Something needs to change.