Negative Recruiting Press

[PlummMeanGreen]

Well, it's never good to burn any bridges, but this is one school out of hundreds in Texas. And, just because this one coach (in his first year after being an assistant at the U of Houston) may advise his players not to go to UNT because of what happened to Taylor Insall, doesn't mean his players are going to listen to him. Do you think if he was pissed at Texas and advised his players not to go to UT that they'd actually refuse a UT scholarship just because he said so? Gary Joe Kinne couldn't even convince his own son to play at Baylor when UT came knocking.

Now we're obviously not UT, but if Dodge can bring the kind of excitement we all hope he can, then players are going to want to play at UNT regardless of what happened with one bordeline D-1A player in TD's first and abreviated recruiting season.

I feel bad for Insall, but he's as much to blame for this as anybody. Did he not watch the great movie, Rudy?? Rudy had to go remind the new coach of the previous coach's commitment. It sucks that Insall had his heart set on UNT and now has to play elsewhere, but how many similar stories are there for this recruiting season alone? With all the late coaching changes, players were decomitting left and right.

Let's all (Abilene included) just chalk this up as lesson learned and move on.

Good post, gangrene...

Also.............if I wanted to go to said school bad enough I may have just taken my chances and waited a day to 2 to sign (especially since we had a couple of 'ships to open up); no law says you have to sign on the first day that you can sign.

I've actually heard of players turning down 'ships to go walk-on at their preferred school knowing they full well had the talent to produce and would eventually get a full scholarship. Also, at most state-assisted Texas universities, it is still a decent bargain tution price (compared to private universities). There is also Title 4 funding to use until a full scholarship becomes available.

I know, easy for me to say!

[UNT_playmaker]

I really feel sorry for the kid, I mean thats the kind of recruit you want in the end. One who makes a solid commitment and doesnt stand you up at the end. Dodge had his reasons and his new system, but the least he could have done was return his calls and at least told him he wasnt need so that he could look elsewhere...

Overall bad publicity.....West Texas does have some really good recruits....Football is all they have over there........

[Ibleedgreen]

We should have honored DD's commitment to Taylor Insall. That is the fact.

[untbowler]

We should have honored DD's commitment to Taylor Insall. That is the fact.

I'll disagree, since it was "DD" who recruited him. If a coach is fired then all bets are off. As Harry said earlier if this was UT or A&M there would be no fuss. If DD really wanted him then he should have offered him a scholarship at USU. No reason for Dodge to use a scholarship on a player he feels will not fit his offensive scheme.

[UNTFan23]

Did Rice uphold any of its offers its former head coach made to players that didn't follow Graham to Tulsa?

[GreenGramma]

Did Rice uphold any of its offers its former head coach made to players that didn't follow Graham to Tulsa?

Yes, Tanner Shuck - Jenks OK

[greenminer]

I'll disagree, since it was "DD" who recruited him. If a coach is fired then all bets are off. As Harry said earlier if this was UT or A&M there would be no fuss. If DD really wanted him then he should have offered him a scholarship at USU. No reason for Dodge to use a scholarship on a player he feels will not fit his offensive scheme.

bleh. don't like this argument. DD is (er, was) a representative of UNT. UNT recruited him, UNT would have signed him. He would have played for UNT, not Dickey/Dodge.

[Green Lantern]

Sorry, but this article is obviously written with an agenda. Did it offer any actual quotes from Dodge regarding the situation? No, it just speculated that he wanted nothing to do with the kid. It's this type of irresponsible journalism that causes problems and promotes skewed perceptions, What a joke. Don't get me wrong... I feel kinda bad for the kid, but he did end up with a scholarship with West Texas A&M (a pretty good opportuinty in itself).

Edited February 8, 2007 by Green Lantern

[Rudy]

The article says he didn't, and the kid's coach confirmed it. Re-read the article.

OH, Hersey, thats concrete evidence.

And, I gree, boo hoo, that is the real world. He should have taken a hint and taken it upon himself to make sure he was still welcome, if he thought there might me the chance that he wasnt, he should have taken it upon himself to start looking elsewhere.

I was once hired by the owner of a security company to run his Killeen branch, and was confirmed by his son who ran the Austin branch, and his eventual successor. only to have my position changed to officer once the son saw me. Was that fair, hell no. But you know what, I got over it. That is the REAL world.

Also, so everyone who is saying flatly "we should have honored his scholarship" is also saying that when a head coach is fired or quits, all of his assistants should automattically be allowed to finish out their contracts since the coach who hired them was a representative of the school, and they coach for the school. Ok, lets all go get RF back in here. Who has his number?

Edited February 8, 2007 by Rudy

[bigrobdsp]

Also, so everyone who is saying flatly "we should have honored his scholarship" is also saying that when a head coach is fired or quits, all of his assistants should automattically be allowed to finish out their contracts since the coach who hired them was a representative of the school, and they coach for the school. Ok, lets all go get RF back in here. Who has his number?

That is rediculous. There is a big diference between a coach and a recruit, and you know it. Unless the Kid had bad grades or off the field problems that came to light after his origional offer his scholarship should have been honored.

[CaribbeanGreen]

whatever the real story, I just think it's funny how so many of us get all high and mighty and play the "high moral standards" card with our open letters and manifestos WHEN IT SUITS US... but when it's the great Todd Dodge, well, "that's the real world, kid."... everyone loves to talk about "doing things the right way".. well, the old school crowd does anyway -- but when it suits us, when Vizza spurns Nevada, when we leave Insall hanging -- it's cool. That's life, baby.

I support NT, I support Coach Dodge, I can't WAIT for this season. But i'm sure as hell not going to Pollyanna anyone about "doing things right"... please. Give me wins, baby.

[Rudy]

That is rediculous. There is a big diference between a coach and a recruit, and you know it. Unless the Kid had bad grades or off the field problems that came to light after his origional offer his scholarship should have been honored.

How is that ridiculous? Do you have anything to back up your claim?

[gangrene]

We should have honored DD's commitment to Taylor Insall. That is the fact.

So which recruit would you trade for Insall?

[Harry]

And I guess had Dickey offered 12-14 early committments to players who had only D-II opportunities Dodge should have been forced to eat those too huh?

[GreenRealHard]

I like how "Greenrealhard" has never joined our board until it furthers his cause to post this article (he has a whopping two post on GMG.com) - yet we are supposed to believe his "sources". Whatever dude. I'm sure this will be your first and last contribution here.

Here is the bottomline, had this situation occurred with a Texas or Oklahoma or even Texas Tech there would have been no mention of it. It's ok if Mack does it. It's accepted. If it is North Texas than it is a travesty of the utmost proportion. There are players who receive early scholarship offers all of the time from the BCS level schools that are withdrawn.

Why shouldn't Darrell Dickey and his staff have some responsibility here? Shouldn't they have contacted Insall to let him know that they were leaving and the ultimate decision was Dodge's to make? How do we know that Dodge had even been given notice that this scholarship offer was out there? I just don't believe that Dodge would have passed up an opportunity to let the young man know if he had known about it - it's not his style, it's not how he operates.

Harry, why would you personally attack my post? I have been a supporter of Mean Green Athletics since 1989. I have given thousands of dollars to the University, attend all home football games and even help students get jobs at a local business in Denton that I am associated with.

The reason I do not post much is that my job dictates long hours, so I do not get to spend the time educating myself on player talent, school administration, coaching moves, etc. So I have read YOUR supposedly intelligent opinions for years because I ASSumed you and others that post frequently were in the know. IF YOU ACTUALLY READ MY POST, YOU WILL SEE THAT I CUT AND PASTED THE ARTICLE AND THE ONLY 'OPINION' I OFFERED WAS ONE SENTANCE AFTER I SPOKE WITH TWO GENTLEMEN THAT KNEW OF THE SITUATION AND WHAT THE THOUGHTS OF THE COACHING COMMUNITY IN THE TOWN WERE. IF I WAS NOT SURE OF THE INFORMATION, YOU CAN SLEEP WELL KNOWING THAT I WOULD NOT HAVE POSTED IT.

I have considered you a class act, spoken with you on occasion at games when introduced to you and took people's word that you were a good person to help 'lead the charge' for promoting Mean Green Athletics. I am now having second thoughts.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Harry, why would you personally attack my post? I have been a supporter of Mean Green Athletics since 1989. I have given thousands of dollars to the University, attend all home football games and even help students get jobs at a local business in Denton that I am associated with.

The reason I do not post much is that my job dictates long hours, so I do not get to spend the time educating myself on player talent, school administration, coaching moves, etc. So I have read YOUR supposedly intelligent opinions for years because I ASSumed you and others that post frequently were in the know. IF YOU ACTUALLY READ MY POST, YOU WILL SEE THAT I CUT AND PASTED THE ARTICLE AND THE ONLY 'OPINION' I OFFERED WAS ONE SENTANCE AFTER I SPOKE WITH TWO GENTLEMEN THAT KNEW OF THE SITUATION AND WHAT THE THOUGHTS OF THE COACHING COMMUNITY IN THE TOWN WERE. IF I WAS NOT SURE OF THE INFORMATION, YOU CAN SLEEP WELL KNOWING THAT I WOULD NOT HAVE POSTED IT.

I have considered you a class act, spoken with you on occasion at games when introduced to you and took people's word that you were a good person to help 'lead the charge' for promoting Mean Green Athletics. I am now having second thoughts.

Dude, don't even bother. There are factions here - the true believers on one side, the rest of us on the other. Believe me, I get private messages from the people who post here who have brains in their head...thankfully.

You posted an article that shattered the true believers' image of St. Todd. Nobody cares what your intentions were, just that you didn't bow down at the alter of Todd. Hear me now, believe me later.

Edited February 8, 2007 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[good_ken]

Dude, don't even bother. There are factions here - the true believers on one side, the rest of us on the other. Believe me, I get private messages from the people who post here who have brains in their head...thankfully.

You posted an article that shattered the true believers' image of St. Todd. Nobody cares what your intentions were, just that you didn't bow down at the alter of Todd. Hear me now, believe me later.

Okay, then explain this: Why wasn't Insall offered by Utah State? Why didn't DD take Insall with him to Utah State?

That question has nothing to do with the "alter of Todd". But you have avoided addressing that kind of logic.

[Eagle1855]

Okay, then explain this: Why wasn't Insall offered by Utah State? Why didn't DD take Insall with him to Utah State?

has anyone thought that maybe he did offer and the kid didn't want to go to freaking UTAH to play football? I mean, I wouldn't want to. Maybe Utah State didn't NEED a center. Or maybe they already had offers to a couple closer to Utah.

come on, we could speculate on all this all day, but nobody knows anything except what was written in the article.

[PHSCoach]

OH, Hersey, thats concrete evidence.

Also, so everyone who is saying flatly "we should have honored his scholarship" is also saying that when a head coach is fired or quits, all of his assistants should automattically be allowed to finish out their contracts since the coach who hired them was a representative of the school, and they coach for the school. Ok, lets all go get RF back in here. Who has his number?

99% of the assistants coaches in the nation have one year contracts and they are always allowed to finish the contracts out......................

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Okay, then explain this: Why wasn't Insall offered by Utah State? Why didn't DD take Insall with him to Utah State?

That question has nothing to do with the "alter of Todd". But you have avoided addressing that kind of logic.

Darrell Dickey isn't the head coach of Utah State. He didn't join the staff until January 16th, less than a month before signing day. By then, their offers were out. You think schools wait until the final two weeks to make all of their offers? This is the third season for the current Utah State staff. It's not as if they started recruiting the day Dickey was hired. They already had six offers and/or OL commitments by then. They weren't undoing a year's (or in some players' cases longer) worth of recruiting simply because they hired a new coach a couple of weeks before signing day. Be realistic.

Also, stick to issue, that is whether or not Dodge should have at least called the kid. He should have. He's a man. He could easily have called the kid and leveled with him. He didn't. For a long time, he wouldn't even return the coach's phone calls. If you're not going to be man enough to talk to the kid one on one, why not simply return the coach's call promptly?

The coach didn't like it, an Abilene newspaper reported it, someone posted it here...and some of you are mad about it. Tough. To many of us, Darrell Dickey, Todd Dodge, Matt Simon...it doesn't matter. Get out there and win. But, many of us certainly aren't deluding ourselves into thinking any of them are Jesus Christ. To the rest of you, it's dream time in the land of Mickey Mouse.

There's not a testicle hair's worth of difference among them. They're football coaches. And, it so happens, our current one got some bad press because he wouldn't simply return a call to a kid or his coach. You may not like that it's now out there for public comsumption, but...that's life, eh?

Edited February 8, 2007 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[El Paso Eagle]

Darrell Dickey isn't the head coach of Utah State. He didn't join the staff until January 16th, less than a month before signing day. By then, their offers were out. You think schools wait until the final two weeks to make all of their offers? This is the third season for the current Utah State staff. It's not as if they started recruiting the day Dickey was hired. They already had six offers and/or OL commitments by then. They weren't undoing a year's (or in some players' cases longer) worth of recruiting simply because they hired a new coach a couple of weeks before signing day. Be realistic.

Also, stick to issue, that is whether or not Dodge should have at least called the kid. He should have. He's a man. He could easily have called the kid and leveled with him. He didn't. For a long time, he wouldn't even return the coach's phone calls. If you're not going to be man enough to talk to the kid one on one, why not simply return the coach's call promptly?

The coach didn't like it, an Abilene newspaper reported it, someone posted it here...and some of you are mad about it. Tough. To many of us, Darrell Dickey, Todd Dodge, Matt Simon...it doesn't matter. Get out there and win. But, many of us certainly aren't deluding ourselves into thinking any of them are Jesus Christ. To the rest of you, it's dream time in the land of Mickey Mouse.

There's not a testicle hair's worth of difference among them. They're football coaches. And, it so happens, our current one got some bad press because he wouldn't simply return a call to a kid or his coach. You may not like that it's now out there for public comsumption, but...that's life, eh?

Just a question. If this board and so many of the poster seem to bring you to this point of displeasure why do you keep posting?

[El Paso Eagle]

I’m guessing that those of you who think a NON BINDING early commitment should have been honored are really pissed at Vizza?

It seems there is are good amount of people who have been waiting for the opportunity to lash out at TD. Do you feel better??

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Just a question. If this board and so many of the poster seem to bring you to this point of displeasure why do you keep posting?

I'm not at a point of displeasure. The people at the point of displeasure are those who have to face the reality that Todd Dodge doesn't wear a blue suit and red cape with big yellow S's on them. And, there are many poster out there who send me private messages asking me to post more often! Imagine that. Therefore, I know that there is a healthy segment of posters out there who appreciate balance in the discussions here.

I've told some of them that the only reason I don't post more is that I've got a business to run and a wife and kid to support. Many who only post occassionally are the same way. We balance our lives so that college football isn't the driving force. As a result, we don't put any of the coaches or players on unduly high pedestals.

UNT was here long before Darrell Dickey or Todd Dodge, and it'll be here long after. So, forgive me - and those other occassional posters - who don't slobber at the mouth for Todd Dodge or any of them.

Again, I entreat many of you to step away from the message board, as in a period of fasting, for just a day or two and seek some emotional balance. One negative newspaper article shouldn't set you off spewing about players, their parents, journalists, and former coaches. Seriously. Some of you are more paranoid than the freaks down at the 6th Floor Museum.

Edited February 8, 2007 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[GreenBat]

I emailed the abilene paper and the Cooper High coach on the 12th of January this email

Subject Taylor Insall

Sent Date 01-12-2007 2:28:08 PM

From

To "sports@reporternews.com" <sports@reporternews.com>

Cc "michael.spradlin@abileneisd.org" <michael.spradlin@abileneisd.org>

I am a fan of the University of North Texas Mean Green Football program.

Abilene Cooper's 6-4, 255 pound Offensive Lineman Taylor Insall gave a verbal commitment to attend UNT while Darrell Dickey was head coach. I was just wondering if he still has an offer from new coach Todd Dodge and if he is going to honor his earlier commitment.

I never heard back from either. That is 25 days before signing day. I can't believe that Insall could not get in touch with Coach Dodge or a member of the coaching staff in that amount of time. Should Dodge have called Insall, probably. Should Insall have gotten in touch with the new coach at the school he was committted to play football for, ABSOLUTELY. If nothing more than to build good will with him and make sure he was still going to get his education paid for.

I feel for Taylor Insall, but he was take some of the responibility for this mess.

[untcampbell]

What does the Real Lonnie Finch have to say about this?

I will take the enormity of positive press regarding THIS coach, over the sliver of negative publicity.

I am finding it increasingly difficult to temper my enthusiasm over Coach Dodge, and what he has brought to the program at this early stage. I don't know how much difference there is in coaches (certainly more than one testicle hair), but I know this one is more enthusiastic and passionate, and I know he is a better salesperson than the one before him. I know I will enjoy what this coach puts on the field more than the last one. I know that guys are visiting North Texas, and surprised by what we have to offer (or is it the way it is being sold?).

These last few months have provided me with hope that we are going in a direction that we have never gone, or even aspired to go.

If Coach Dodge erred in his dealings with the Abilene kid, then he has proven he is not Jesus Christ. Glad he got it out of the way early because perfection is way too much to ask of anyone.

Scott