Negative Recruiting Press

[THOR]

sure, a call would've been nice, but it isn't a necessity. kids go back on their verbals all the time, we landed a recruit who did this. why aren't we all on vizza's butt because he backed out of a previous commitment? everyone does it...deal with it...

[Eagle1855]

Well, my last post in this thread will just be to say that IF that article is true, it's unfortunate for the program, and would have been a great way to build some more good will. You don't get too many mulligans with high school football coaches, because they have long memories.

I'm going to believe that it was an oversight until I hear otherwise from the staff.

pretty much my same thought. If everything is as the article states, it's a raw deal for this kid. IF.

My point is simply, it doesn't matter whether its 100% true or not, most people that read it in west texas will assume there is some level of validity to it. I think it makes us look bad in a part of the state that we will want to continue to recruit. If Dodge didn't contact the kid, I think this falls on us. The "right" thing to do would have been to at least talk to the kid. Again, this is speculative because we don't know what actually happened, we just know what was written. I don't care if the kid played for us or not. It's more of a "what is the right thing to do" type thing for me. I have tired head.

Bootlicker, out.

[GrandGreen]

If as portrayed, TD and staff should have at least taken the time to contact the kid as he was the only player that publicly committed to DD and NT. I don't necessarily think that NT should have honored the commitment and bring in a player that the coaching staff did not believe could contribute, but there is no reason not to have contacted Install and explained the situation.

Edited February 8, 2007 by GrandGreen

[Green to the Bone]

I agree that it was out of line for anybody to suggest some collusion (such as the young man's father working at the Abilene paper) behind the story. Complain about facts; don't make up facts so you can complain.

However, since Insall did sign with a WT A&M yesterday, it was incumbent on the reporter to mention that. As it is, the story left the impression that a talented young man's dream of playing college ball was over.

Furthermore, as soon as DD was fired, Insall's coach should have realized what might happen. For one thing, if Insall doesn't have enough experience snapping for the shotgun (and I'm not making up facts; I have no idea what offense he's been working in), as soon as TD was hired, Insall's coach should have seen that he might not fit in the spread. He needed to get proactive and work with the kid to get him to UTEP or anywhere else.

This is why oral commitments aren't binding. Even with an oral agreement with DD, Insall was still completely free to keep shopping. His coach needed to make sure he understood that.

That said, everybody here wishes him every possible success.

[MeanGreen61]

I'm going to give TD the benefit of any doubt here. With limited time to put a recruit class together & more than a few priorities to deal with, he can't be all things to all people all the time. This article is completely counter to TD's rep and just because it's in print doesn't make it so.

[Cowtown]

Why didnt Dickey take him to USt?

[greenminer]

Considering the praise that TD alumn have heaped on him, I question the whole process here. I think he would have handled it better if he had known. Touching on what Harry said, are scholarship offers contractual? What if they're word of mouth, and no one ever told TD or his staff that we had made this offer in the first place? I'm not saying this is the case with Insall, but what if there are some people out there dirty enough to see the new coaching change, assume an institution's ignorance, and call in and say "hey the previous regime offered, do I still got it?" When in fact is was never there and they were hoping for some luck?

DD probably offered him, and TD never knew about.

If he did know, I agree that a call would have been nice. But just because a lot of programs are honoring commitments like this doesn't mean that what TD did NEVER happens.

Look at Foles' situation with his withdrawal from ASU. He saw their coaching changes, saw they were recruiting another QB, and left. Maybe he smelled something after taking some responsibility to do some sniffing. A responsibility Insall never bothered to try. And I don't think it was DD's problem to contact him after moving up to Utah State. In his defense, once we fired him he was no longer obligated to do anything for us or OUR recruits.

[good_ken]

The article says he didn't, and the kid's coach confirmed it. Re-read the article.

Also, all this "business first" non-sense is laughable. Coaches at much bigger schools have honored scholarships before to kids that were injured before they hit campus. It's called having class.

I'm not saying the kid should have been given a scholarship. He and his coach, though, should have been called and told early in the process that his scholarship wasn't going to be honored. It's not like moving the earth and sky. It's simply picking up the phone and talking to a kid. He couldn't have at least done that? Please.

No, bigger schools pull scholarships all the time. Some kids have their 'ship pulled just for visiting another school.

Taylor Insall lives with his mother, idiot. Some of you have lost your minds. Dodge didn't call a kid and his coach told the local paper. And, you want to drag the guy's family into it knowing nothing about him. Sad.

I don't post often, and I'm glad I don't. It seems as though the vast majority of you have no sense of balance between life and college football. It's difficult to believe that we graduated from the same institution.

I was pointing out that this author seemed to have a personnel interest in Insall.

If this kid is such a badass, and so loyal to DD: then how come he didn't get offered to go to Utah State? Why didn't DD honor the scholarship offer and give the kid an oppurtunity at Utah State?

[MeanGreen61]

Why didnt Dickey take him to USt?

Excellent question !

[e-bone ver2.awesome]

When kids break their commitments to schools, it is really no big deal. When BCS schools break their commitments to kids, it is no big deal. But when a coach doesn't honor a commitment to a kid because the kid was recruited to play in an entirely different offense by a different coach who has since been fired, it is a big deal? The circumstances behind the article are a little sketchy. It seems like it was written to get revenge rather than convey the facts behind the situation.

Edited February 8, 2007 by e-bone ver2.awesome

[DeepGreen]

Obviously this is only half the story, but if true and had Dodge and staff known the offer was on the table and NT had a verbal committment, then Dodge should have called Insall. It would have been the right thing to do. Remember, TD and his staff represent the University of North Texas and their actions, both good and bad, reflect on our University. At this point a written apology from Coach Dodge, acknowledging the mistake, is all that can be done.

Edited February 8, 2007 by DeepGreen

[LongJim]

Here is the bottomline, had this situation occurred with a Texas or Oklahoma or even Texas Tech there would have been no mention of it.

Easy big fella! Yes it would have been mentioned, cussed and discussed all over message boards and recruiting lists. "But what does that have to do with the price of potatoes in Arkansas?"

UNT's ox is being gored in this article, and it's painful. Welcome to the big leagues, Mean Green Nation.

It's ok if Mack does it. It's accepted. If it is North Texas than it is a travesty of the utmost proportion. There are players who receive early scholarship offers all of the time from the BCS level schools that are withdrawn.

You're right that ships are withdrawn all the time, but depending on the reasons for it, it sure as hell isn't accepted by the fan base--no matter who the coach is. A lot of those have to do with grades, off the field issues, or the like, which HS coaches in the know can understand. Perhaps this is the case here? If not, then what's the big deal about returning a phone call?

I agree, we're probably not getting the full story, so it'll be interesting to see what that story actually is.

[PlummMeanGreen]

boohoo!!

Would the reporter like some cheese with that whine. I feel bad for Insall but Dodge picked up a much better Center in the Plano West Player JJ.

If Abilene is all Dodge loses I will not lose to much sleep on recruiting the rest of the state.

Maybe a bit of knee-jerk from the good west Texas folks of Abilene? I don't think the reputation of Todd Dodge will be judged one way or the other on this one isolated situation (and will we really ever know all the details of this isolated sitution)? PLUS......... aren't the good folks of Ablilene, Texas, being a bit too quick to judge before they know all the facts as well being way out of line and a bit immature (for those who say they are college educated) to say such as "no one from UNT will ever be welcome to the entire Abilene ISD to recruit "OUR" players," then that is going to (ultimately) be more their loss than ours and moreso, the loss for some good and "well deserving" Texas HS recruits from Abilene, Texas, who would get a more than above average education at the University of North Texas.

Lord knows how many NT Exes we have who live in Ablilene, Texas, as it is, and many of that group who might not like (at all) this kind of reaction toward their Denton-based alma mater from some of their fellow Abilene-ites.

There are almost 6 million citizens in the NORTH TEXAS METROPLEX many of which play the best brand of HS football in the entire USA (all of Texas included) and don't we all sorta' believe Todd Dodge and his staff will get more than their share of DFW area recruits in the next several years? Seems we haven't been of late.

You know, I don't recall reading anywhere that Todd Dodge has nail-scarred hands in anything I've read about our bright new young HFC but can't he say what any of else can say if we goof up or make a mistake in our own lives every once in a while which would be:

"If you've ever made a mistake--you'd know how I feel right now?"

Lead us, Todd Dodge, we are following...

PS: Anyone ever read the New York Times best seller ("Meat on the Hoof") written by a former Denton HS grad/then UT Longhorn Gary Shaw about the U of Texas football program's alleged numerous indiscrepancies which all happened under the watch of one of many of our's (even to this day) Texas icons/heros and that being the great Coach Darrell K. Royal.

Well, for the many of you who probably have read this book you would recall it was one that was hardly kind to Coach Royal at all as well as his UT Longhorn football program back in the mid-to-late 1960's, but all that never changed many of our minds about that superb man (DKR) who even gave SUMG and myself 30 minutes of his time to talk to 2 of his greatest fans.

PS II: And like Harry has posted below: "Lets give Todd Dodge a chance to defend himself on these charges."

Edited February 8, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[Smitty]

Dodge should have at least called the young man and told him. Yeah, he's busy, but its one phone call. Make the time to do that.

Never mind fairness, it would just be good politics to tell the coach and the young man exactly what was happening and why. It would certainly help Coach Dodge in future recruiting in that region. That's not the way to build future recruiting relationships.

As for the job analogy: if an employer actually offers a job to someone - and by doing so logically encourages that person to stop looking for a job - then that employer absolutely owes it to that person to tell them if the situation changes. That is the equivalent of this situation. Insall is not just another person who interviewed and didn't get hired - he was offered the job when Dickey offered him a scholarship. UNT and Coach Dodge owed him the courtesy of telling him that the situation had changed.

I'll guarantee you this: if Dodge had honored the offer but Insall decided - because of Dickey's departure - to find another school, a lot of people on this board would be brutally critical of Insall.

[Reb UT'70]

Just dropped in to see how the class recuited looks to those that can evaluate them. As the parent of a recuited player (soccer) I have to say I think Doge was wrong. I just read the transcript of Brown's press conference and he was making the point that decisions are being made way too early. I agree, but that's where the process is today.

I don't know how many 'ships TD had available, and I don't think he was "required" to give one to this kid, but it would have been the right thing to do, and the smart thing to do. Texas was willing to give up a spot for a kid who will never play because of a heart condition. As it turns out that 'ship didn't count against their total, but that wasn't a consideration.

Texas will get a a ton of positive milage out of that 'ship, and TD will be hurt. TD is being hurt just by having the one article written. Is it fatal... of course not, but in the minds of some parents it will be a question that TD will have to answer instead of beng able to point to what he did as "proof" that he'll stick with kids even if they don't help on the field.

That is so important to parents. For all the hype, the education is more important to the parent than the playing time. TD is new to the college scene, and he can make it up to the coaches. However, the last thing you want is a group of Texas HS coaches thinking you're not fair.

[Coach]

Shockley is the beat writer for Cooper, so he probably knows this kid very well and was upset by what happend.

I was suprised that Dodge did not honor DD's offer to Insall because this year under Spradlin, Cooper went to a wide open spread offense and from all accounts, Insall excelled in it.

I don't think that all recruiting ties with Abilene would be lost, maybe some sore attitudes torward Dodge on the Cooper campus for a year or two, but that's it. I don't see an Abilene High or Wylie kid turning down an offer to play for Dodge at NT because of this, and honestly, probably the same for a Cooper kid.

[Coach]

Another thing to consider when wondering why this article was written, egos around here are kind of bruised today because 3-5A only had one D1 recruit this year (Bront Bird at Permian to Tech).

[Harry]

Excuse me Reb, but how can you say Dodge is wrong when the man hasn't had a chance to even defend himself against these charges?

[H-towngreen]

Who know maybe it was another case of DD's "stealth" recruiting and TD didnt know about Insall.

Maybe he didn't get in touch with insall ASAP. Instead he was putting his coaching staff together. Does this writer have a timeline for when these things happened. Was it over the span of a week or over a a month and a half? It's possible TD couldn't contact him because of the non-contact period.

So did this writer talk to all HS coaches in Abiline, and everone said "no, NT is now allowed through our doors." Doubtful

Yes, sucks for the kid, but as soon as DD got the boot he, and his coach, should have taken precautionary measures and felt around elsewhere.

HOW ABOUT WE HOLD OFF JUDGEMENT UNTIL WE GET TD'S SIDE OF THE STORY. Because it seems as though the writer chose not to. Having been burned by media before it's tough to take a story for what it's worth.

Edited February 8, 2007 by H-towngreen

[Stan R]

I would not be surprised if we never get to hear TD's side of the story.

[Reb UT '70]

Excuse me Reb, but how can you say Dodge is wrong when the man hasn't had a chance to even defend himself against these charges?

Good point!

However, I think I was careful to say that this wasn't a "coaching" mistake or even a "recruiting" mistake but a "PR" to parent mistake. If I didn't make that clear, I hope I have now. I should hasten to add that I'm pulling hard for TD, his uncle is in my Sunday School class. I've worked with Cotten in prison ministry and I admire the family.

Do I really think that TD won't be welcome in Abiline, even at Cooper? No! He'll be very welcome because he's a good guy and he's got a great record. What he will have is a "question" to answer. Based on what I know, he'll be able to answer it, but the fact that it gets asked is the "PR" mistake.

I just watched TD's press conference, and I was very impressed.

[gangrene]

Well, it's never good to burn any bridges, but this is one school out of hundreds in Texas. And, just because this one coach (in his first year after being an assistant at the U of Houston) may advise his players not to go to UNT because of what happened to Taylor Insall, doesn't mean his players are going to listen to him. Do you think if he was pissed at Texas and advised his players not to go to UT that they'd actually refuse a UT scholarship just because he said so? Gary Joe Kinne couldn't even convince his own son to play at Baylor when UT came knocking.

Now we're obviously not UT, but if Dodge can bring the kind of excitement we all hope he can, then players are going to want to play at UNT regardless of what happened with one bordeline D-1A player in TD's first and abreviated recruiting season.

I feel bad for Insall, but he's as much to blame for this as anybody. Did he not watch the great movie, Rudy?? Rudy had to go remind the new coach of the previous coach's commitment. It sucks that Insall had his heart set on UNT and now has to play elsewhere, but how many similar stories are there for this recruiting season alone? With all the late coaching changes, players were decomitting left and right.

Let's all (Abilene included) just chalk this up as lesson learned and move on.

[eulesseagle]

Bottom line is that nobody knows what "really" happened in this situation concerning if Coach Dodge or staff contacted the player or not and what was said.

All we know is one person's take on the situation in Abilene, Texas.

All we know is that the kid still gets an athletic scholarship (free ride) to another university. Heck, West Texas A&M has a great football team and they get to compete for the national title every year in their playoff system.

This is Coach Dodge's program and let him run it the way he so chooses including the signing of players that he wants.

As an old preacher once said, "There is nothing you can do to change the past but you can start today to make a new tomorrow."

(which is a good lesson for all involved)

[Reb UT '70]

I would not be surprised if we never get to hear TD's side of the story.

I hope we don't. At this point, all he can do is make it worse, unless he takes the kid. My own experience with the press has confirmed that you should "never get in a pissing match with someone who buys newspaper ink by the barrel."

Just let it go unless someone the paper makes bashing NT a mission. I can't see that happening because there will be other kids in other years who will want to go to UNT.

[adman]

Oh & I don't think they have to have a phone call...

When he graduates college and interviews for a job - Do they call when you don't get hired? NOPE

Why is it TD's responsibility to call?

TD is busy recruiting, I bet his wife could hardly get him on the phone much less this kid...

Why can't the MAN (DD) who offered the ship call the kid to let him know "Hey, ahh I just got fired and your ship may not still be offered but ahh I'm going to Utah State, want one here?"

My question is this: Who offers the ship? The Coach or the School? If it's the coach then Dickey should take Insall to Utah. If it's the school then we might should honor the ship. But think of this, What if 20 kids had solidly committed to DD would we honor all 20 even if they didn't fit the system?