Blue, Gold Jaguar Confuses Public

WIFE2HOT4U · January 25, 2007

A little more than a week ago NT announced its new branding for NT-Dallas would include a new blue and gold color scheme, and a jaguar as the campus' mascot.

Let me be the first to congratulate the powers that be of the NT system, which banged out that one.

"Oh, we need a mascot, let's pick a cat!" Don't make me sneeze.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't predatory felines eat birds? Awesome ? way to pick on our eagle mascot - Scrappy - a mascot who is already having issues with pesky white squirrels stealing his limelight and an inferiority complex because his name rhymes with crappy.

Okay, I know, NT-Dallas feels like it isn't a part of NT's main campus and they are trying hard to make a name for themselves. Still, if you are going to claim to be a part of NT, at least pick something cooler than a lame exotic cat. Maybe something more local would work better? Last I checked jaguars weren't even in North America.

Nota bena: At one point jaguars were in the southwestern areas of the United States, but due to our love for guns and shooting things - with said guns - they no longer populate any of those areas.

Also, blue and gold as school colors? What is that point, perhaps different merchandise? We can't even clear the shelves with our own crummy logo-printed junk. It's okay though, now all five of NT-Dallas' students can have pride in their school and buy a sweatshirt that shows off these vibrant new colors.

I have an idea. Let's just leave both of the logos the same on each campus. That way, we don't have to deal with all this confusion when people already talk about NT. Most of the population of Texas isn't even familiar with our eagle and color scheme, let alone our name because we changed it so many times in the past.

For now, I think we need to just ditch the jaguar and leave it alone. There is no reason that NT-Dallas can't share the same mascot and color scheme as the Denton campus. After all, we paid a lot of money last year to have someone tell us that dark green isn't as good as light green.

An earlier edition, the Daily reported that NT had a gathering of people, over a hundred faculty and staff, pick from different animals, birds and mammals alike. And the most popular was a jaguar?

You might as well make a lemur the school's mascot, or change NT-Dallas' colors to red and green, because both decisions are equally illogical. Jolly the Christmas jaguar would totally work just the same as a mascot based on those criteria.

NT powers that be, prepare for everyone to confuse the university's image - again. I mean not to embarrass you, but you have done this to yourself.

Tony Scott is a journalism junior from Houston and is copy chief of the Daily. He can be reached at ajs0151@unt.edu.

Eagle1855 · January 25, 2007

you know, I pretty much agree with most of that (except the stupid bird and prey comments)

I still haven't even figured out the reason for an NT-Dallas campus (unless we are trying to steer the non-trad student that direction). I understand the point of expanding the UNT system so as not to get gobbled up by the UT system at some point, but why not grab a college in a small town in North Texas, expand that. Wichita Falls comes to mind.

The only way I can see a UNT-Dallas campus making sense is if it is for the Law school, but even so, I think it would be a huge mistake to not have the law school a part of the UNT-Denton campus. Maybe someone that knows more on that subject can comment.

If we have to have a UNT-Dallas campus, having different logos makes sense. I still think choosing the same colors and mascot as a school in the region is a really stupid and unoriginal idea. (Southern)

And about the confusing branding comments, I don't know why we don't just get rid of all the stuff with the old logo. Quit trying to sell it for clearance and donate it to a shelter and write it off.

Edited January 25, 2007 by Eagle1855

ColoradoEagle · January 25, 2007

That was dumb, even for the NT Daily.

Edited January 25, 2007 by ColoradoEagle

January 25, 2007

That is almost unreadable.

UNT-Dallas will be a separate school.

It isn't a hard concept.

UT-Dallas is not a Longhorn. They are the comets. They don't have burnt orange as their color, they are in fact green.

UT-El Paso is not a Longhorn. They are the Miners.

So on and so forth.

UNT-Dallas is not an Eagle. They are the Jaguars.

Eagle1855 · January 25, 2007

UNT-Dallas will be a separate school.
It isn't a hard concept.

The concept isn't difficult. The necessity is what I am questioning.

January 25, 2007

The concept isn't difficult. The necessity is what I am questioning.

Necessary right now?

Maybe... people don't even know that UNT-Dallas is going to be its own school. They think it is just an extension campus for non-traditional students. When in fact it is targeting to be its own campus with its degree plans, schools and funding.

They could have delayed picking colors and mascots. However, how can you foster any pride or respect when you don't have ANY identity... besides being a satellite campus.

Eagle1855 · January 25, 2007

Necessary right now?
Maybe... people don't even know that UNT-Dallas is going to be its own school. They think it is just an extension campus for non-traditional students. When in fact it is targeting to be its own campus with its degree plans, schools and funding.
They could have delayed picking colors and mascots. However, how can you foster any pride or respect when you don't have ANY identity... besides being a satellite campus.

I meant necessity as in, why Dallas?

And I agree. If it is going to happen (which is apparently is), it should be viewed as it's own university, and branding should take place ASAP to differentiate the campus from Denton. The question is will people identify it differently (perhaps this is why they are doing this early on)? Seems like it could easily be confusing.

The Texas State system shows 9 campuses across the southern part of the state.

Texas Tech System shows 6 schools.

UT system shows 9.

Do we have plans to rapidly expand our campuses across the North?

Edited January 25, 2007 by Eagle1855

January 25, 2007

I meant necessity as in, why Dallas?

I think it boils down to Dallas [proper] not having a *public* four year university within city limits. UNT-Dallas makes sense in that respect. Also, they are trying to kill two birds with one stone... South Dallas has a large number of high school grads not going to college. They are hoping this can make a difference with that as well.

Do we have plans to rapidly expand our campuses across the North?

UNT - Health Sciences in Ft. Worth

UNT - in Denton

UNT-Dallas - In Dallas [Oak Cliff]

UNT - Law - In Dallas [Downtown]

This is the grand scheme.

Green Lantern · January 25, 2007

The concept isn't difficult. The necessity is what I am questioning.

That's the real problem with UNT_Dallas. It has zapped a lot of the resources (time, energy, manpower) from the NT Denton campus trying to get that thing up and running. They haven't hit any of their projections for enrollment, are over budget, and behind schedule in regards to the building of the facilities. This thing has been a disaster ever since they got this project up and running.

What is the real benefit to NT? We have so many things at the Denton campus that need to be taken care of and quite a bit of time and resources being spent on a failed project (Dallas Campus). Where is the logic in that?

Edited January 25, 2007 by Green Lantern

Go_UTA · January 25, 2007

The article is wrong about the jaguar not being local.

Jaguar, cougar, mountain lion are all names of the same animal (as stated in a recent National Geographic article).

This animal is native to Texas (and most of North America).

It is a perfectly good mascot.

FirefightnRick · January 26, 2007

but due to our love for guns and shooting things - with said guns - they no longer populate any of those areas.

What else would you protect your livestock with, speers and arrows? I can't imagine population growth and urban expansion had anything to do with it either?

RIck

Green Mean · January 26, 2007

you know, I pretty much agree with most of that (except the stupid bird and prey comments)
I still haven't even figured out the reason for an NT-Dallas campus (unless we are trying to steer the non-trad student that direction). I understand the point of expanding the UNT system so as not to get gobbled up by the UT system at some point, but why not grab a college in a small town in North Texas, expand that. Wichita Falls comes to mind.
The only way I can see a UNT-Dallas campus making sense is if it is for the Law school, but even so, I think it would be a huge mistake to not have the law school a part of the UNT-Denton campus. Maybe someone that knows more on that subject can comment.
If we have to have a UNT-Dallas campus, having different logos makes sense. I still think choosing the same colors and mascot as a school in the region is a really stupid and unoriginal idea. (Southern)
And about the confusing branding comments, I don't know why we don't just get rid of all the stuff with the old logo. Quit trying to sell it for clearance and donate it to a shelter and write it off.

I think having a public university within Dallas and FW is huge especially all they have is private schools. I think it has been great because its opening new doors for the minorities and the people of that area who usually dont have a choice in picking their schools in Dallas unless its SMU. I'm extremely happy they have the Dallas campus and it will do wonders for the city and its people....FRANKLY I could care less about the mascot and colors....as long as it benefits and serves the people which is the real concern here. What matters is the education and the degree...everything else can go to heck for all I care. In regards to the law school even though I wish and think it should be in Denton as it would be awesome for the overall campus...they would be getting a lot of support from law firms and from the city of Dallas itself. It definitely has an advantage being in Downtown in the middle of all the firms, courts, and people and etc. Who knows maybe one day they will do a law school in the Denton campus too. I think the next plan of attack in opening a public university should be within FW city limits and/or Wichita Falls...basically taking over Midwestern State University and making it UNT Wichita Falls or something. Thats something I would do. After that I think Amarillo should be next. But thats just my opinion.

Edited January 26, 2007 by Green Mean

UNTLifer · January 26, 2007

What else would you protect your livestock with, speers and arrows? I can't imagine population growth and urban expansion had anything to do with it either?
RIck

Bare-Knuckles Fighting?

Eagle1855 · January 26, 2007

I think having a public university within Dallas and FW is huge especially all they have is private schools. I think it has been great because its opening new doors for the minorities and the people of that area who usually dont have a choice in picking their schools in Dallas unless its SMU. I'm extremely happy they have the Dallas campus and it will do wonders for the city and its people....

I understand the public university in Dallas thing (even though UTD does have a campus there, UNT-D will likely serve So-Dal).

FRANKLY I could care less about the mascot and colors....as long as it benefits and serves the people which is the real concern here. What matters is the education and the degree...everything else can go to heck for all I care.

I don't really care either, its just that when you have the chance to do something different and you are starting from a clean slate, wouldn't you at least look around at other area schools and make sure you arent using the EXACT same colors and logo? It just seems kinda typical of UNT admin of the past. I agree, the education is the most important thing, but the two aren't mutually exclusive. you dont give up education by picking an original mascot and color scheme.

In regards to the law school even though I wish and think it should be in Denton as it would be awesome for the overall campus...they would be getting a lot of support from law firms and from the city of Dallas itself. It definitely has an advantage being in Downtown in the middle of all the firms, courts, and people and etc. Who knows maybe one day they will do a law school in the Denton campus too.

I doubt they will ever do 2 law schools in the same market. That would be absurd even by UNT standards. I understand the benefits of having one in downtown dallas, but I also think about what a huge plus it would be for the Denton campus- the flagship of the UNT system. We all want NT to move into the next tier and having a good law school on campus certainly wouldn't hurt. One of the problems with NT has always been keeping students in Denton and creating that college atmosphere that a great college town like Denton deserves. I understand it is getting better, but having law students on campus for 2-3 years only adds to the experience. And its not like Dallas is that far away. Plus, having it in Denton gives equal access to everyone in the Metroplex.

I think the next plan of attack in opening a public university should be within FW city limits and/or Wichita Falls...basically taking over Midwestern State University and making it UNT Wichita Falls or something. Thats something I would do. After that I think Amarillo should be next. But thats just my opinion.

I agree. This is what I would really like to see happen. Don't even really have to change the name of the schools (the Texas State system only has one school that carries the Texas State name, though all of campuses can change their names if they see fit). My intention in listing the number of schools in the other state systems was to point out that even with the addition of a UNT-Dallas campus we are a ways behind, which is why I questioned what the next step (after UNT-D) would be.

Anyways, I can see the pros and cons of every side of these arguments, just like to see what other people think!

Edited January 26, 2007 by Eagle1855

Go_UTA · January 26, 2007

I wish the future UNT-Dallas good luck, but its creation was without any doubt due to politics and not a pressing need. (Not surprising, its growth so far has been disappointing.) Sure, it would be great to have a college on every corner, but that isn't financially feasible. There were plenty of other ways to create strong incentives for south Dallas residents to attend a college besides the expensive proposition of opening a 4 year university. That wasn't the best way. Texas already has too many universities which dilutes resources. The Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board was hostile to the UNT-Dallas proposition from the beginning (because they understand the realities), but, with horse trading in the legislature, Senator Royce West (a good man) finally got it through.

Also, the complaint about not having a state university within the technical boundaries of the Dallas city limits has always struck me as a spurious comment. Who cares? The city is ringed by state universities and is full of 2 year colleges.

There won't be a new state university created within the city limits of Fort Worth. Fort Worth is already served by UT Arlington. One could have made the same comment about south Dallas, but, to whatever extent that was true, it is especially true of Fort Worth. All hell would break-out if there were every a serious proposal to create a new and duplicative college across the county. FWIW, UT Arlington already operates two campuses in Fort Worth: the River Bend campus in east Fort Worth, and the just-opened campus in downtown at Santa Fe Station. (Many of you who read the Fort Worth paper doubtless read the stories and positive editorials on this initiative.)

I'd be in favor of the UNT System picking-up Midwestern State. I think the 4 universities not currently in systems ought to be moved to systems, as that is more efficient and would save tax payer money.

Anyway, good luck to the future UNT-Dallas.

Green Mean · January 26, 2007

I understand the public university in Dallas thing (even though UTD does have a campus there, UNT-D will likely serve So-Dal).
I don't really care either, its just that when you have the chance to do something different and you are starting from a clean slate, wouldn't you at least look around at other area schools and make sure you arent using the EXACT same colors and logo? It just seems kinda typical of UNT admin of the past. I agree, the education is the most important thing, but the two aren't mutually exclusive. you dont give up education by picking an original mascot and color scheme.
I doubt they will ever do 2 law schools in the same market. That would be absurd even by UNT standards. I understand the benefits of having one in downtown dallas, but I also think about what a huge plus it would be for the Denton campus- the flagship of the UNT system. We all want NT to move into the next tier and having a good law school on campus certainly wouldn't hurt. One of the problems with NT has always been keeping students in Denton and creating that college atmosphere that a great college town like Denton deserves. I understand it is getting better, but having law students on campus for 2-3 years only adds to the experience. And its not like Dallas is that far away. Plus, having it in Denton gives equal access to everyone in the Metroplex.
I agree. This is what I would really like to see happen. Don't even really have to change the name of the schools (the Texas State system only has one school that carries the Texas State name, though all of campuses can change their names if they see fit). My intention in listing the number of schools in the other state systems was to point out that even with the addition of a UNT-Dallas campus we are a ways behind, which is why I questioned what the next step (after UNT-D) would be.
Anyways, I can see the pros and cons of every side of these arguments, just like to see what other people think!

UTD has one within Dallas city limits too? UTD's main campus is actually in Richardson which is a north suburb. If they have one within the city limits then I completely didnt know that.

Eagle1855 · January 26, 2007

UTD has one within Dallas city limits too? UTD's main campus is actually in Richardson which is a north suburb. If they have one within the city limits then I completely didnt know that.

Yes, I know Richardson is a northern suburb but you are talking about what, 10-15 miles from downtown Dallas? My point was simply that it isn't like the only option for public schools in the metroplex are NT and UTA.

Green Mean · January 26, 2007

Yes, I know Richardson is a northern suburb but you are talking about what, 10-15 miles from downtown Dallas? My point was simply that it isn't like the only option for public schools in the metroplex are NT and UTA.

Oh yes you are completely right...not the only option. I guess they did it for location. And if you think about it....it has a chance to get a lot of future funding and support being surrounded in Downtown...I think that was another motivation factor for the location. Dont know...just what I am thinking.

GreenTiger_OriginalAcct · January 26, 2007

The city of Dallas had some input on the creation of UNT-Dallas. It was part of the revitalization plan. Dallas wanted a four-year public institution in the southern part of the city.

Midwestern is a completely different political animal. There is a lot of resistance to the Florida approach where every public university in the state falls under the same system, despite having different names. Even the major programs there are decided to some extent at the state level.

Edited January 26, 2007 by GreenTiger

meangreendork · January 26, 2007

In short terms: yay to the UNT-Dallas concept and best of luck to it. Any opportunity to spread education is worthwhile. I wish they chose something more original for mascot and colors.

TicketJohn · January 26, 2007

I don't have a huge issue with that Jaguar mascot...and obviously the author isn't comprehending the difference b/t the two campuses. But I did think it was funny article--especially the part about scrappy.

UNTFan23 · January 27, 2007

There won't be a new state university created within the city limits of Fort Worth. Fort Worth is already served by UT Arlington. One could have made the same comment about south Dallas, but, to whatever extent that was true, it is especially true of Fort Worth. All hell would break-out if there were every a serious proposal to create a new and duplicative college across the county. FWIW, UT Arlington already operates two campuses in Fort Worth: the River Bend campus in east Fort Worth, and the just-opened campus in downtown at Santa Fe Station. (Many of you who read the Fort Worth paper doubtless read the stories and positive editorials on this initiative.)

Tarelton State has a satellite campus in the medical district of FW as well.

Still, it be nice to see a full fledged public university in FW.