Reply To The "24" Post

[UNT_playmaker]

I dont know why but the thread was deleted...but here was my reply, which will get deleted in 4,3,2............

Plumm and people like you are completely false in your interpertations of Islam. A bunch of psycho idiots hijacked the religion for their own personal gain. People in Al Qaeda or the insurgents in Iraq are supposedly supposed to be Muslims, but are waging a war for their gains. In Islam it is strictly forbidden to kill anyone, PERIOD. These people are killing Americans and Muslims, and they are killing more Muslims than they are anything else. So these people are furthest from being followers of Islam. Also Islam is the second largest religion in the U.S. today, with about 8 million people, all of these people are good hard working people who just want to raise a level headed family here in a culture that is different than their own, keep in mid most of these people left their country because of corruption, threats, and harsh times in their own. They should be welcomed and praised for what they have accomplised here in America as foreigners. Statisitcs show that they are least likely to be in jail, have very high graduation rates, and arent a burden as some other ethnicities that are having an opposite effect on this nation.

Also on a side note, I very seriosuly doubt that you have ever read a Koran, I have, but I dont think I have read the same one you did, which was probably provided by the Neo-Cons of America or Fox News Corp. Also I doubt that you ever been in a Middle Eastern country, I have, actually three of them. The people their are under harsh times from poverty and corrupt leaders, but the people their cooexist with their Christians brothers, and try very hard to raise and support their family and live a life that fulfills God's praise. Chrisitans and Muslims do believe in the same God and Islam is the only other religion that celebrates the birth of Jesus and the Christmas story( the birth of Christ from the Virgin Mary). I mean in all actuality the three wise men who brought gifts to baby Jesus were Arabs....geesh...

I have many friends who are Muslims here at UNT and they hate Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein even more than us Americans do. Just trying to get the facts straight...Go Mean Green....

[PlummMeanGreen]

A FRIENDLY REPLY TO UNT_PLAYMAKER...

For those who don't like strong opinion or politics (and for heaven's sake) religious discussion, American Idol is presently on the boob tube-----go enjoy that (as I am) while I post.

UNT-playmaker... Do you remember the story of Noah when he built a very large boat and people (who would soon be swimming for their lives) taunted and made fun of good ol' Noah for the reasons he was building that boat (and with some of his detractors just because they just enjoyed being part of something that was "anti-whatever?"

First of all, I am not one who says all the good law-abiding Moslems in the USA should be getting on the next slow boat back to their native country. Hellbells! Next thing you know, some may want me heading back to England/Ireland! Jesus Christ (of whom many of us adhere to His Teachings) even beckons us to pray for them (and not in a pious sort of way, either) and for sure to never consider physical harm to them as well. You and I obviously come from 2 different backgrounds. Mine is one that is pretty typical for the southern U.S. Bible Belt.

This will hack off some readers even on GMG.com because (#1) I have the gonads to expressa few less than milk-toast strength opinons (gospel or no gospel) and that makes many people tense, especially 2 or 3 of you who have made me personna non-grata because of my strong opinion of a recent Darrell Dickey-led football program (as well as NT Athletics, in general); but with the DD Ball part of all this which many of us actually proved to be more than just a little bit correct with our assessments of that; but as far as a few of my MG friends are concerned who (strangely) want even return phone calls made in the past, my take on that is: You can't really lose what you probaby never had in the first place, ie, most likely a very shallow friendship?

OH GOD! JESUS CHRIST?!? Yet the name Jesus Christ has divided many rooms before so this won't be the first or last time for that to happen. I think you and I could agree that the name Jesus Christ has divided some countries, too, so what's new with that? In fact, Billy Graham's own son (Franklin) said another reason he had no problem believing that Jesus Christ truly was was who he said he was (other than all the obvious reasons) was because of the reaction that even bringing up the name Jesus produces. Even some on this GoMeanGreen.com don't want to hear the name of Jesus Christ because what he teachers is a lifestyle of moral discipline that some on GMG.com would never want to adhere bow down to, so they will get back to those of us who at least try to do all that by doing a little verbal persecution of their own. I am probably (as one of the Bible's most famous Apostles said) am one of the chiefest of sinners myself, but I didn't join His Movement at a young age thinking it was going to make me perfect, either. My life has not been a Nirvana co-existance either as I have been fighting depression since November of 1986. Its not been a Sunday School picnic so to speak, but many have their own crosses to bear worse than mine (although sometimes I don't know what could be worse than depression).

Yet no where did any post I've posted or read from any other posters say we should round all Amercian Moslems up like we did the Japanese-Americans after Pearl Harbor and put them in interment(?) camps. In fact, Jesus Christ said we should pray for non-Believers, our enemies (which can be someone we work with at the office). Yet...................anyone who doesn't think those who flew into the World Trade Center praising Allah were our 'buds might need to take a good old fashioned "What Kind of Freedoms Did Our Fore-Father's Really Have In Mind" reality check and might want to consider the fact that there are cells (sects) of Moslems living on our soil who if you got them to really tell you how they really felt about "The Land of the Free" and those of us who cherish it, really feel about all of us.

UNT_playmaker, there are some out there among Islam who cannot wait to be the ones who detonates the first dirty nucluear bomb to take our you and your family; me and my family, too. I guess I need to brush up on the Koran, but I do believe from recent events from an American converted to Islam who beckoned all of us to convert to Islam? Why was that, UNT_playmaker? Do you know. How about the fact that the Koran says (and I paraphrase) "give them a chance to convert to Islam and if they chose not to, then what does their religion say to do what with the Infidel, UNT_playmaker? Do the tell the Amerian infidel: "Awe, shucks, that Allah those guys praising as the flew into the WTC is the same God you all worship, too? OR........ "we have just been pulling all your Chrisitan legs all the time with all this "you really need to convert over to Islam or else? No where has it been posted that all Amercan Moslems are guilty, either, if that had been the case, they wouldn't get to call their adopted America home. Yet FWIW, the ones who flew those jets into the World Trade Center's 2 Twins had meshed themselves right into the fabric of American life; that is, they blended in with traditional Americans (you know, the ones who sorta' look like the ones that are still on all our U.S. paper currency)? So how do we know which ones is and how do we know which ones isn't?

A sad fact of all this going on today is how too many young Americans (like too many of their Baby Boomer parents) have no stomach anymore to face up to what is going on around them or to even fight any of this anymore; that is, what is going on in the Middle East and what is going on in our own country.

When Americans continue to water down what we built this country on, then might as well just all lay down and say: YALL COME! WE'RE ALL YOURS FOR THE TAKING! BUT BEFORE YOU CUT OUR KIDS HEADS OFF, REMEMBER HOW NICE WE WERE TO LET YOU BE OUR GOOD NEIGHBORS? (That one will hack off some on this board, too, but some need to get hacked off). The Greatest Generation, ie, our WWII parents, grandparents, uncles, aunts, etc, etc, etc, in the USA had the stomach to take care of business when the business of Adolph Hitler needed to be tended to. They couldn't sit around and discuss how unpopular going over to Germany to kick the Nazi's respective arses would make us Americans, either. They just simply went over there and did it! (With the help of our vallient allies, of course).

And UNT_Playmaker, it might discourage you to know that I am hardly alone with how I feel about all this. There are millions who attend our churches on Sunday (in spite of what the liberal press would like most to believe) and most of those millioins who actually believe the Holy Bible to be the inspired Word of God beginning with Genisis all the way thru Revelation. As you might guess, I would be one of those, too. I know many on GMG.com who are also part of this Following, but they wouldn't get involved in a discussion as this if their next pay check depended on it much like they didn't want to get involved with all the DD Ball business, especially when all that reared its ugly head his last 3 weeks as the UNT coach Yet, last night's episode of 24 even had the national talk radio folks (of which the Democrats would love to silence BTW because it exposes all of them for what they are) buzzing all day long with many concerned Americans whose concerns rang from sea to shining sea about Islam.

Remember what one of the Japanese admirals on the ship waiting for their planes to fly back to that ship after their surprise attack on Pearl Harbor said: "I'm afraid we've merely awakend a sleeping giant?" Well.............the giant in this country has started to wake up and trying to make religion plurastic is not what most American evangelicals are about. We believe Jesus is God (one of the Holy Trinity) and Moslems only think of him as merely a prophet. Maybe you should be reading your Bible rather than the Koran and get more excited about the Truth, the Whole Truth and nothing but the Truth?

The Book of Revelation (and BTW, there has never been a book in the Bible called, uh, "Revelations)) will tell all of those who dare read it how all this will turn out in the end and those who aren't true Believers but rather chose one of hundreds of "man-made" religions in their quest to reach Who has been there all the time without needing their man-made help to reach Him will not be getting however many virgins that they hope they will get for their eternity. Not sure why virgins (with the sexual implications that would follow all that) would even figure in to anyone's theological man-made eternity as it is; that is, unless someone with a pretty big imagaination (Mohammed?) might have had some pretty carnal desires of his own.

I wholeheartedly concur with what Billy Graham's son, ie, William Franklin Graham said about the prophet Mohammed, and so would millions of other Christian Americans. We will not apologize for our convictions, either, just like the devils who praised Allah as they flew 2 American Airlines into the WTC did not apologize for theirs, either.

GOD HAS BLESSED AMERICA FOR A REASON! (Those who support Israel will be blessed--those who don't will not).

uh, GMG!

Edited January 17, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[UNTFan23]

My only question is ... how did it go from El Guapo / Jack to a point where it was deleted?

[PlummMeanGreen]

My only question is ... how did it go from El Guapo / Jack to a point where it was deleted?

3 guesses and the first 2 don't count?

I guess "24's" very dramatic ending and those who were involved with the shady part of that ending may have had something to do with some of this?

America needs to get the Wheaties back out and get its stomach back for a pretty big fight we now have on our hands (no matter what the Pelusi crowd would have all the "peace-niks" believe). I really don't like the vibes I get with that lady, but of course, she probably wouldn't like the vibes she'd get from me, either! Oh well...................DD followers didn't like the vibes they got from a whole bunch of us on this board, either, and we only turned out to be pretty right on with our assessments of where his program was headed; but of course, most any alum from any other NCAA D1-A football program would have figured all that out even sooner than I it took me; hellsbells, I gave DD 7 years out of 9 till I (in deed) saw the proverbial light.

Edited January 17, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[eulesseagle]

to get my two cents in on the islamic intentions....just in the 20th century:

1. Muslim Turkey has expelled apx. 1.5 million Greeks from its empire in the east and replaced them with Turks They have massacred apx. 2,000,000 Armenians and replaced them with Turks in the west.

2. Muslim Turkey has invaded and occupied northern Cyprus displacing the Greeks that lived there.

3. Muslim northern Sudan has conquered much of southern Sudan enslaving hundreds of thousands of its Christian population.

4. Indonesian Muslims have occupied all of the non-Islamic western New Guinea and incrporated it into Muslim controlled Indonesia.

5. Muslim Indonesia has invaded and conquered Christian East Timor with horrible loss of Christian life.

6. Muslim Indonesia is attempting to destroy Christianity in was used to be called Celebes.

7. A half-dozen Arab countries have fought about four wars in an attempt to destroy Isreal and occupy it's territory with the consent of the world's 57 (fifty-seven) Islamic nations.

8. Muslim Libya has blown up western aircraft killing hundreds of non-muslilms.

9. Muslim Iraq invaded Kuwait.

10. Muslim Iraq invaded Iran with the deaths of over 2,000,000.

11. Muslim Albania is attempting to enlarge its borders at Christian Macedonia.

12. Muslim Northern Nigeria has benn an aggressor against the the Christian South.

13. Muslims have occupied Somolia and killed hundreds of thousands of non-muslims.

14. Muslim Chechans have been fighting the Russians for the last 30 years and have killed thousands of innocent women and children in the Opera house slayings a couple of years ago and killed dozens of school children in southern Russia about a year and a half ago.

15. Prez Putin (Russia), as I write, has put Moscow on terrorist alert today because of threats of more bombings by these Muslims.

16. Muslim youth bombed and set fire to thousands of cars in France, two years ago, for about a month.

17. Muslims killed Van Ghoes (sp) grandson in the Netherlands for speaking out against Islam.

18. Muslims have threatened to kill the current Pope. One Muslim did shoot the last Pope.

19. Muslims killed over 200 in the Madrid, Spain train bombings.

20. Muslims killed scores in the London, England Subway/Bus bombings.

Naturally, this is not talking about the Crusades and Muslim conquest.

Naturally, this is not talking about how the Europeans stopped the Muslim conquest of Europe in 1529 outside the gates of Vienna.

Naturally, this is not talking about how the French stopped the Muslims at Tours, after they had conquered Asia Minor, North Africa and Spain....and how they drove the muslims back across the Mediterranian Sea into North Africa.

What is at stake here is the religion of FREEDOM. Freedom is the seven letter word that has driven western civilization to the greatest industial society on the face of the earth. I do not care what you worship your FREEDOM will be taken away.

The United States, now, has its first Muslim in congress and refused to be sworn in on the Bible and used the Koran.

In conquered contries Islamic culture forbade:

Christians and non christians from bearing arms.

Christians and non christians could not ride horses/autos.

Could not build.

Had to pay extra taxes.

Could not proselytize.

Had to bow to their Muslim masters.

Had to live under the laws set forth by the Koran.

Gave up family members for slaves.

I will have to agree that not all Muslims are terrorists....but.....all terrorists are Muslim.

Wake up people before it is too late.

Edited January 17, 2007 by eulesseagle

[Guest JohnDenver]

Nicely ripped from CBN ...

http://www.cbn.com/CBNNews/Commentary/IslamHistory0212.aspx

but.....all terrorists are Muslim.

Now. now. You aren't serious.

1984-JUN: An abortion clinic was bombed

1984-DEC: The same clinic was bombed again

1986-MAR: A second clinic was broken into and vandalized; two female employees were assaulted. John Burt, a former member of the KKK, and his daughter were tried and convicted. John Burt became the local leader of Rescue America.

1993-MAR: Michael Griffin, allegedly a member of Rescue America, killed Dr. David Gunn outside an abortion clinic. Griffin's lawyers claimed that Burt had brainwashed Griffin into committing the killing. (There is a consensus among mental health professionals that this sort of "Manchurian Candidate" programming is impossible). Griffin was convicted and given a life sentence.

1994-JUL: Paul Hill, a former Presbyterian minister and leader in Defensive Action killed a physician and bodyguard outside another abortion clinic; he wounded the wife of the bodyguard. He was sentenced to both life imprisonment on federal charges, and execution on state charges.

1994-AUG: Five KKK groups demonstrated adjacent to an abortion clinic in Melbourne FL. They were opposed to abortions given to whites; they encourage abortions to persons of other races. They named Hill their hero of the month.

1990-FEB: A clinic in Vancouver, BC was broken into in 1990; medical equipment was destroyed.

1992-MAY: An explosion generated by a sophisticated gas weapon leveled the Morgentaler abortion clinic in Toronto, ON.

Not to mention... Theodore John "Ted" Kaczynski ... the Unabomber.

Or Tim McVeigh.

Or the Atlanta Olympic Bombing -- Eric Robert Rudolph.

Or Beltway sniper attacks by Lee Boyd Malvo.

Or Charles A. McCoy -- the Ohio Highway Sniper attacks.

... many many more.

Some people (that you would likely consider liberal heathen) consider the whole state of Israel as terrorists. They have killed hundreds of thousands of Palestinians.

[emmitt01]

I think this is silly. If we want to laundry list the atrocities done in the name of religion let's take a closer look at the Christians:

1)The crusades. How many died in the name of retaking holy land?

2)Mass genocide of the Indians. And I'm not just talking the American Indians, let's not forget the Spanish "conquistas" into latin America resulting in the eradication of Aztec and Mayan cultures.

3)American slavery. Why can we own black people? Oh yeah, because God says so. And just to make sure there is no revolt let's make them pray to our white God.

4)Abortion clinic bombings and straight up face to face murders. Why? Because they were sinners.

Shall I continue? Ok...

5)In 1122 Christian crusaders swept over Jerusalem and slaughtered men, women and children, 'until their horses were knee deep in blood. We then went to the church to thank the Lord for his mercy.'

6)In 777 , Charlemagne, a devout Christian, after conquering the Saxon rebels, gave them a choice between baptism and execution. When they refused to convert, he had 4500 of them beheaded in one morning.

7)In the fourth century, Emporor Constantine, the first Roman Emperor to become a Christian, had over 3000 Christians executed because their interpretation of the Bible did not agree with his. That is more than the number of Christians who died at the hands of the Romans during the well known 1st century "Christians to the lions" persecutions.

8)Queen Isabella, famous for sending Columbus to the New World in 1492, was well known also for her 'Spanish Inquisition', the gruesome torture and murder of tens of thousands of Spanish Jews, Muslims, homosexuals, people who read or wrote, uppity women, and anyone else not up to the Queen's strict standards. Isabella was a champion of the faith, piously congratulating herself as her victims writhed to their deaths in the flames and the many other ingenious methods of torture invented by her inquisitors. In the 12th and 13th centuries, the Inquisition was born, with Christians killing Christians, during what was known as the Albigensian heresies. Hundreds of thousands of people died because their Christianity did not agree with official dogma. This adds to the irony of murder in the name of Christ, when the majority of victims of the early inquisitions were themselves Christians.

What's that you say? These are all examples of people bastardizing the Christian faith? I agree. I also agree that 9/11, the bombing of the USS Cole, and the original World Trade Center bombing (not the one in NY) are glaring examples of religious fanatics who are not truly subscribers to the Muslim faith.

[JayDub]

and the original World Trade Center bombing (not the one in NY)

Actually, I believe the WTC that was brought down in the 9/11 attacks was the same one that was bombed in Feb. 1993. Bomb was in Tower One's parking garage.

[eulesseagle]

johndenver,

the difference between your list and the list of muslims is that your folks are not trying to take over the world.

[JayDub]

The United States, now, has its first Muslim in congress and refused to be sworn in on the Bible and used the Koran.

Forgive me for being so frank here but...BIG F**KING DEAL. I'm sick of hearing people bitch about this. So, the guy wanted to swear upon what he believes in. Welcome to America...you know, that country known for religious freedoms? And I'd be wiling to bet the guy is the least corrupt one on the Hill.

I will have to agree that not all Muslims are terrorists....but.....all terrorists are Muslim.

Yet another fine example of being completely misinformed...or just stupid. Both of which seem to be fairly prevalent amongst the folks who think Islam is all about blowing shit up.

johndenver, the difference between your list and the list of muslims is that your folks are not trying to take over the world.

Ahh, so you're saying, killing people in the name of your God is OK...so long as you're just killing people who perform abortions and have no ambitions of taking over the world. It makes SO much sense now.

Edited January 17, 2007 by JayDub

[PlummMeanGreen]

None of the above attrocitities were hardly approved or sanctioned by the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

Jeez, we're all snowed in today, wonder what that will mean for this thread?

I don't have the rainbow colored frizzy hair like the one who showed up for years at all those NFL stadiums showing this Bible verse on all his various man-made signs but:

John 3:16 (One of Coach Tom Landry's favorite Bible versus which sizes up the mission of the Gospel in just a few words).

PS: Jesus is not a white man's God, either; seems Jesus was probably a shade closer to black than white as some historians have said.

Edited January 17, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[GreenBat]

This thread has no place on an athletic website. Who gives a $HIT about 24. It's a FICTIONAL TV show. You know fiction. Stuff that is not true.

I'm not saying that this could not happen, it could. But it is not a Sport, UNT related or not. I respect everyone's opinion on this subject, but it needs to be discussed in a forum designed for this type of subject. Check the CNN board, or boards sponsored by ABC, CBS, Fox nexs, MSNBC or even a 24 message board.

Leave this subject alone on this message board.

[JayDub]

Why not? Why not a spirited debate amongst friends? I'm not going to get the opinions of those I know from other boards.

And while I'm replying...

Plumm, though I respect your faith, the discussion isn't about which one is right or wrong or who's saving who...it's about the prejudices of many towards the followers of Islam because of a few nutballs who decided to use their religion for personal gain.

Edited January 17, 2007 by JayDub

[UNT_playmaker]

Plumm, thank god almighty....For admitting that you respect other's religions and realizing that you yourself were an immigrant of English decent that came to the U.S. for religious freedom. Im a huge believer in what our forefathers put forth to make this country what it is today. They made our country what it is today, and believe me they are still spinning in theiir graves knowing that our great country is going downhill fast by the actions of this adminstration today.

You made a very truthful statement when you closed your lengthy post. If you are a follower of Israel, then you are with America, but if you are not then you are one of the bad guys. That is how our foreign policy has been set up these past 50 years and you couldnt be more right.

[JayDub]

If you are a follower of Israel, then you are with America, but if you are not then you are one of the bad guys. That is how our foreign policy has been set up these past 50 years and you couldnt be more right.

Gotta love a Foriegn Policy based on 3 verses of the Old Testament.

Genesis 12:1-3

1 The LORD had said to Abram, "Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you.

2 "I will make you into a great nation

and I will bless you;

I will make your name great,

and you will be a blessing.

3 I will bless those who bless you,

and whoever curses you I will curse;

and all peoples on earth

will be blessed through you."

Edited January 18, 2007 by JayDub

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

to get my two cents in on the islamic intentions....just in the 20th century:

I will have to agree that not all Muslims are terrorists....but.....all terrorists are Muslim.

Wake up people before it is too late.

All terrorists are Muslim..!!! .. Are you sure. ????

----Hitler was not a Muslim..... He was supposedly a Christian and the Catholic Church helped many of his followers flee to South America (mostly Catholic countries) after WWII. He tried to exterminate the Jewish people and the Jewish religion (they were responsible for the death of Jesus after all)... He also did in a lot of Islamics and other religious groups but that is not mentioned much because there were very few of them in the countries he controlled. Granted, religion was not the main reason for his desire for conquest but it was an issue in WWII.

----The Japanese were as bad and possibly worse during WWII especially in China and Nan-king. A lot of what they did was based on their religious beliefs and the fact that that they considered their Emperor a divine being. Those who believed otherwise deserved to die. They recruited Kamikazes based on religious ideas.

----Read about Bosnia... the Serbs were supposedly Christians and they were they ones exterminating the Islamic ethic groups.

_________________

---- I believe in the separation of Church and state... A court house is not a church nor is a school a church. I have heard some school devotionals (when we had them) that I really did not agree a lot with. Some groups was trying to impose their beliefs on others (and I do mean other Christians whose belief were somewhat different )

---- We may be in Iraq because of the unfortunate influence of the extreme televangelists who constantly support those now in office. The President even referred to the invasion as a "Crusade" a couple of times until several Americans protested his use of that word. We need to do what is right for our country.... not what some religious group wants.

----Having said the above, I do agree that Islamics have more than their share of terrorists. It is also true that religion and government in those countries are merged together......... and you can also see how much trouble that is causing. Keep religion and government separated.... Our forefathers put this in the Constitution because of all the religious (Christian) wars that took place in Europe after the Protestant Reformation. Even our wonderful Puritans forefathers started hanging folks that disagreed with them (claimed they were witches etc.) Thank goodness those fine Christians don't still control our country (they also banned Christmas and Easter because they weren't mentioned in the Bible). They came to New England to have the freedom to believe as they wished (also to be able to punish those who didn't).

---Don't blame the non-Christians a lot for the bans now in place in schools... The extreme Christians such as the idiot judge that put a multi-ton granite moment in the doorway of the courthouse or the judge that that had the Ten-Commandments posted in his courtroom surrounded by flashing lights who even made people them at times before testifying. I have had students that refused to work or listen in class but instead decided that reading their Bible (sometimes even aloud) was the thing to do (they usually were failing). Those are types that have caused the religious problems in courthouses and schools.... this especially includes the students that wanted to discuss and convert people to their beliefs when other classwork was to be done. Didn't happen much but it did happen at times.

Edited January 18, 2007 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[JayDub]

LONG STORY SHORT...

HUMANS SUCK!

[eulesseagle]

S.E. & J.Ds.,

I am really surprised that you are "trying" to include "f r i n g e" groups into my main point of Islamic terrorists.

Abortion clinic bombers, the KKK, the Kaczynskies, McVeighs and Rudolphs of the world are not trying to take over the world and ya'll are trying to go down the old perverbial bunny trail on that one. I will agree these folks that you mentioned are fringe extreemists & have murdered people for their shallow beliefs.

You fail to recognize the immediate threat of Islamic terrorism today and its implications on western civilization.

1. Ok, I mentioned the Crusades and how a young Western Civilized Europe defeated, several times, the hoards of Muslims in the Middle East, France, Spain and Austria to perserve Christian Europe. Boys, "FREEDOM" comes at a price. The price of young men who willingly march to battle to preserve our God given rights as a free christian culture and those unfortunates who die in innocents. In all wars the innocents who want nothing to do with war die along with those who die for cause. THESE MEN DIE FOR THE RELIGION OF FREEDOM.

2. Hitler was no more a practicing Catholic than I am the Pope. Hitler was into the occult along with his closer associates.

3. Bosnia? You can not be this misinformed. Of course Christian have killed Muslims. Muslims have been killing Christians and Orthodox Christians in a power struggle for centuries in this region. Why dont you blame the Muslims for killing the Christians in this region. One of my regrets in this 20th century conflict was Prez Clinton supporting the Muslims and killing the Christians during his administration. Again, IMHO, the only person who was able to stop the violence in this region was good 'ole Commrade Tito.

4. Our main threat today is against Islam. 57 countries around the world are Islamic and want nothing more than to take away your freedom, your beliefs and turn you and your family into practicing Muslims and if not kill you. If you do not believe me then ask the people of Indonesia (remember that includes a lot of islands), Afganistan, Somolia, Sudan, Pakistan, Saudia Arabia, Egypt, Palestine.....etc......etc.....etc. Heck fire, go to your local Mosque and ask the Iman or pick some "current events" and read for yourselves.

5. Today's threat is Western Christian Civilization vs. Islam. Innocent people are going to get killed on both sides. The question is what type of government do you want to live under? I prefer to live under a Free Western Christian Civilization and support the religion of Freedom.

6. For those who want a coalition of both Christian and Islam then only turn to Chamberlin after Munich.

[JayDub]

You fail to realize that these Muslim Terrorists are "F R I N G E" groups as well. They're not nearly as huge as your FoxNews would make you believe.

Is there a threat from these fringe extremists? Hell Yes there is.

Should we treat every other good, hard-working Muslim like dirt under our feet because of it? Hell No.

1. Ok, I mentioned the Jihad and how a young Middle Easterners defeated, several times, the hoards of Christians in the West to perserve Muslim Middle East. Boys, "FREEDOM" comes at a price. The price of young men who willingly march to battle to preserve our God given rights as a free Muslim culture and those unfortunates who die in innocents. In all wars the innocents who want nothing to do with war die along with those who die for cause. THESE MEN DIE FOR THE RELIGION OF FREEDOM.

If you really want to go that way...do you see any difference here?

2. Bin Laden was no more a practicing Muslim than I am the Pope. Bin Laden was into the making up his own rules along with his closer associates.

Hmmm....seeing a pattern here...

4. Our main threat today is against Islam. 57 countries around the world are Islamic and want nothing more than to take away your freedom, your beliefs and turn you and your family into practicing Muslims and if not kill you. If you do not believe me then ask the people of Indonesia (remember that includes a lot of islands), Afganistan, Somolia, Sudan, Pakistan, Saudia Arabia, Egypt, Palestine.....etc......etc.....etc. Heck fire, go to your local Mosque and ask the Iman or pick some "current events" and read for yourselves.

I think most of them are more interested in our gas bills.

5. Today's threat is Western Christian Civilization vs. Islam. Innocent people are going to get killed on both sides. The question is what type of government do you want to live under? I prefer to live under a Free Western Christian Civilization and support the religion of Freedom.

I'm all about Free Western Civilization, Democracy and the such...but what the Hell...Religion of Freedom? The only true religion of freedom is none at all. All have little rules that are little more than attempts to force one man's vision of "morality" on others. The Taliban's oppression of it's people isn't all that far from the average oppression of the local Baptist church on it's members in regards to drinking alcohol.

Live and let live, man...let God sort it out.

Edited January 18, 2007 by JayDub

[JayDub]

Edited above....

[Cerebus]

This is why I have ulcers.

Keep religion/abortion/etc off the board.