How Many Think It Is Time To Revisit The Idea Of The Wac?

Daddy Dumpsalot · January 18, 2007

Sorry, learning how to post replies.

What is there to beam about? That I am talking to people that just want to make the SBC better? How do we do that?? We are competeing against schools that have just become 1A. The SBC is a conference that you start in and QUICKLY move out of as soon as you can. not one you try to make the most of and just hope that it gets better, because it aint!

No, I actually haven't. They are always doing something to get more fans at the games...and when does that happen?? When we play schools that mean something. Save the money on the free shirts and towels do something to boost the Football program. Why focus on the symptom when we should be focusing on the problem??

We have much more than an 'attendance problem', we have NO fan support and free t shirts will not solve that problem. Better games against better schools WILL.

foutsrouts · January 18, 2007

There's not much doubt that people tend to equate you with the crowd that you hang out with. This is why many people on a national level tend to think of us as some little upstart school with very little history just like many of our brothers in the SBC. Too bad when you consider that we've been playing football in Texas with some success for nearly one hundred years. :angry:

the real grad88 · January 18, 2007

There's not much doubt that people tend to equate you with the crowd that you hang out with. This is why many people on a national level tend to think of us as some little upstart school with very little history just like many of our brothers in the SBC. Too bad when you consider that we've been playing football in Texas with some success for nearly one hundred years.

Exactly, which is why we should take a WAC invite tomorrow. It has some negatives, but I guarantee that we would get a lot of positive pub about North Texas moving up in the world of college sports, if we did so. It sure as heck hasn't hurt Boise State!

NT80 · January 18, 2007

Exactly, which is why we should take a WAC invite tomorrow. It has some negatives, but I guarantee that we would get a lot of positive pub about North Texas moving up in the world of college sports, if we did so. It sure as heck hasn't hurt Boise State!

While realistically it might be a lateral move, media and non-UNT fans would see it as a move up.

the real grad88 · January 18, 2007

From the strength of the teams in the WAC compared to the Belt, IT IS A BIG MOVE UP. From attendance comparisons, it is a big move up...in addition to bowl-tieins and conference revenue. It's a major moveup on every comparison. The reason no one who has against it has taken the time to actually compare the two on this thread, is because they know what they would find. I don't have time to go back and get the data...I am at work! Don't tell anybody!

Daddy Dumpsalot · January 18, 2007

While realistically it might be a lateral move, media and non-UNT fans would see it as a move up.

Well we would have at least one UNT fan that would see it as a positive move WAY up...me

Daddy Dumpsalot · January 18, 2007

Lets see what people on some other threds are saying:

"QUOTE(MeanGreen61 @ Jan 18 2007, 10:58 AM)

CollegeFootballNews 2007 pre-season rankings. Scroll down to the BOTTOM Time for some Dodge Ball magic !

Bottom of the barrel

http://cfn.scout.com/2/609734.html"

For you sunbelt fans go check out this website and see where our fellow SBC are stacking up. Then look at the WAC and CUSA and MWC.

LoveMG · January 18, 2007

i would vote for wac but can we afford it

PHSCoach · January 18, 2007

???? How much do you think the additional travel would cost?

MeanGreen61 · January 18, 2007

???? How much do you think the additional travel would cost?

As posted earlier, Tech's travel is up to $1,600,000 from $1,175,000 in the first year of the "New WAC" with NMSU being their closest conference member. Appears that doing away with the EWAC has added at least $425,000 annually to their travel cost.

keith · January 18, 2007

It's kind of funny that when we were in the same conference with Boise State and Nevada people use to say the same thing that they now say about being in the Sun Belt Conference. Attendance sucks because no one knows who Boise State is and doesn't care. Now that BSU has built up their program everyone wants to be back in a conference with them.

If we take care of our own house (seems like we have some momentum again), we should do just fine.

Keith

Daddy Dumpsalot · January 18, 2007

It's kind of funny that when we were in the same conference with Boise State and Nevada people use to say the same thing that they now say about being in the Sun Belt Conference. Attendance sucks because no one knows who Boise State is and doesn't care. Now that BSU has built up their program everyone wants to be back in a conference with them.
If we take care of our own house (seems like we have some momentum again), we should do just fine.
Keith

Or we could have done like Boise st and Nevada and got the heck out of the Sunbelt at the first opportunity. I think we all agree that both of their athletic programs, school spirit, financial situations, and fan support are way better than UNT. Perhaps UNT could be where Boise st and Nevada are now if we had gotten out when we could of.

I think the best way to 'take care of our own house' is to get the heck out of dodge (no pun intended....at all....even a little bit)

I dont care about being in a conference with them. I care about having a football program like theirs.

AnotherEagleFan · January 18, 2007

Or we could have done like Boise st and Nevada and got the heck out of the Sunbelt at the first opportunity. I think we all agree that both of their athletic programs, school spirit, financial situations, and fan support are way better than UNT. Perhaps UNT could be where Boise st and Nevada are now if we had gotten out when we could of.
I think the best way to 'take care of our own house' is to get the heck out of dodge (no pun intended....at all....even a little bit)
I dont care about being in a conference with them. I care about having a football program like theirs.

Sooo.. What are you specifically doing to help build a new stadium and to get a baseball team so that we can even think about a new conference???

Daddy Dumpsalot · January 18, 2007

Sooo.. What are you specifically doing to help build a new stadium and to get a baseball team so that we can even think about a new conference???

Great question-and all too often not asked enough.

It starts with the people. I am trying to get people to realize that the SBC sucks. Once people realize that we can then work together to change it, but for some odd reason some people think that this conference is 'ok', and a select few, 'good'. I am not one to sit back and complain about the way things are, I would love for us to get out of the rut we're in, but for anything to happen everyone has to be on the same page. I don't think a new stadium is essential to us moving into a new conference, a baseball team...yes. Thats why I'm trying out....not really but I would.

So to sum up your question; I'm trying to influence people. I'm trying make people see that the future of UNT is NOT in the Suck-belt conference. I'm trying to change the status quo so that students, fans, and alumni can say that We Are North Texas....

Now....what are you doing........or what is anyone doing?

AnotherEagleFan · January 18, 2007

Well I'm not just chatting it up with my friends. Which is what it sounds like you are doing. I am actually... Hold on now this may seem a little crazy.... I cant believe that I am admitting this but... I'm actually giving money. Yes that is correct I am actually one of those who puts my money where my mouth is. Ok truthfully it is not much. But every little bit helps. And for the record this is not my main college. I never went to school at UNT but I do live in Denton so I have adopted UNT as my own. If we were able to get all alumni to give a small sum of money we would not be talking about building a new sstadium we would actually be out there in the afternooon in lawn chairs watching the big equiptment move dirt.

Lets all stop influencing people and start doing something....

And to the supporters on this site which give money and time to UNT athletics, thanks.

Daddy Dumpsalot · January 18, 2007

Well I'm not just chatting it up with my friends. Which is what it sounds like you are doing. I am actually... Hold on now this may seem a little crazy.... I cant believe that I am admitting this but... I'm actually giving money. Yes that is correct I am actually one of those who puts my money where my mouth is. Ok truthfully it is not much. But every little bit helps. And for the record this is not my main college. I never went to school at UNT but I do live in Denton so I have adopted UNT as my own. If we were able to get all alumni to give a small sum of money we would not be talking about building a new sstadium we would actually be out there in the afternooon in lawn chairs watching the big equiptment move dirt.
Lets all stop influencing people and start doing something....
And to the supporters on this site which give money and time to UNT athletics, thanks.

I thought financial support was a given. Dont you think the first step in getting support for the alumni would be to get them to the games?? Yeah, I do too. I mean you're asking them for money for something they take no part in or have no interest in. But if we were able to play schools regularly like SMU, La Tech...etc. then they might get out of the house, spend some money on admission, and then maybe support a little more. And we're probably not going to do that playing ULL, or ULM... Now dont get me wrong, I think it's great that you're supporting a school you didn't even attend but are you going to the games, telling your friends to go, etc.?

Hey, either way I'm a huge UNT fan...but I'm one who would like to see some good football, good recruits, great plays, packed stadiums with nothing but green (and the same shade of green).

AnotherEagleFan · January 18, 2007

I thought financial support was a given. Dont you think the first step in getting support for the alumni would be to get them to the games?? Yeah, I do too. I mean you're asking them for money for something they take no part in or have no interest in. But if we were able to play schools regularly like SMU, La Tech...etc. then they might get out of the house, spend some money on admission, and then maybe support a little more. And we're probably not going to do that playing ULL, or ULM... Now dont get me wrong, I think it's great that you're supporting a school you didn't even attend but are you going to the games, telling your friends to go, etc.?
Hey, either way I'm a huge UNT fan...but I'm one who would like to see some good football, good recruits, great plays, packed stadiums with nothing but green (and the same shade of green).

So you are giving and going to games???? It sure did not sound like it. and Really... La Tech is that much more appealing then ULL or ULM???? Sure SMU I agree but that is a Cross Town Program. NOT La Tech. I mean who cares other then you if we play them. La Tech is going to help sell out our stadium... Well maybe I'm the crazy one.

foutsrouts · January 18, 2007

Great question-and all too often not asked enough.
It starts with the people. I am trying to get people to realize that the SBC sucks. Once people realize that we can then work together to change it, but for some odd reason some people think that this conference is 'ok', and a select few, 'good'. I am not one to sit back and complain about the way things are, I would love for us to get out of the rut we're in, but for anything to happen everyone has to be on the same page. I don't think a new stadium is essential to us moving into a new conference, a baseball team...yes. Thats why I'm trying out....not really but I would.
So to sum up your question; I'm trying to influence people. I'm trying make people see that the future of UNT is NOT in the Suck-belt conference. I'm trying to change the status quo so that students, fans, and alumni can say that We Are North Texas....
Now....what are you doing........or what is anyone doing?

In past years we have been able to lay some of the blame for our situation on UT-Austin's and SMU(T)'s efforts to block our attempts at progression and "keep us in our place", but I think we now have only our collective selves to blame. It will obviously take time, but every supporter needs to make every effort to actually go out and support, as well as do their best to influence others to do the same.

Among many other things, we now have numbers and an exceptional location to our advantage, as well as an administration that seems to have a pretty good idea on what direction to steer the ship. With GB, RV, and TD at the helm, we may just be at the beginning of rapid and positive change. If I hadn't lost my crystal ball I could give a better definition of "rapid and positive change."

As far as conference affiliation is concerned, I've never been a big fan of the SBC myself. I definitely wanted us to take the plunge when the opportunity presented itself a couple of years ago, but I'm kind of taking a bit of a wait and see attitude for the moment. If it can be done correctly then I think by all means we should go for it TODAY, but for the moment I'm thinking that maybe we should give Dodgeball a year or two to see how things pan out for the program as well as for the overall conference landscape.

All my humble opinion of course. BTW, where does your Daddy eat dinner? I need to put those places on my ignore list!

NT80 · January 19, 2007

Or we could have done like Boise st and Nevada and got the heck out of the Sunbelt at the first opportunity.

Boise State and Nevada were never in the SunBelt. However, the gist of your rant is correct that UNT does need to explore other options and I believe we are doing that. The next logical step would be CUSA. There are several things that need to happen for us to go there and I think we're slowly working towards those: competative teams, donor$, attendance, facilities and a membership opening.

ShopMeanGreen · January 19, 2007

As an old NTSU/UNT er I thought I would give my 2 cents to the conversation. Every post here has valid points. UNT Athletics must grow and improve, more community support (along with it, $$$), the Sun Belt sucks (right now). SBC will never get any respect and I don't believe a Sun Belt team will be in the top 25 for a long time, but maybe not forever. In the 70's NTSU was ranked # 16 nationally as an Independent. The Southwest Conference would not allow NT into the Conference and that's why Hayden Fry left. NT was not good long enough to be a major player in any conference re-structuring. At about the same time Dr Hurley came on the scene. His commitment to the Athletic Department was non existent. As a student I sat in a hall meeting and heard the question "why does the admin not support athletics more?" Dr Hurley's answer was because the students didn't support athletics. A good point but I don't think the right direction. Then, the fall of NT athletics began. Not until Dr Pohl came along would things turn around. No matter what you think of DD, RV or anyone else the President and Regents make the biggest difference. The train is on the right track now but it will take many years of continued support to get athletics back to where it was in the 70s. Bottom line- 1. Nt will have to continue on the right track 2. More community support (the team must win - no matter who NT plays - if you lose no one will come) 3. After a few years of winning and improving (better facilities, better recruits etc) some conference will change, regroup, start new etc and NT will be in a place to make more of an impact. I don't like the Sun Belt either but until NT pays it's dues (again) there is no other place to play. EVERYTHING WILL GET MUCH BETTER AND THERE WILL BE ANOTHER # 16 IN THE FUTURE. Be patient and keep beating the drums and life will improve. BTW no personal attacks but the Talons need to be revamped to be a more productive group as they were in the 70s, they could do a lot more to get the community and student body involved. That's all I have to say about that. GMG

UNTBill · January 19, 2007

As an old NTSU/UNT er I thought I would give my 2 cents to the conversation. Every post here has valid points. UNT Athletics must grow and improve, more community support (along with it, $$$), the Sun Belt sucks (right now). SBC will never get any respect and I don't believe a Sun Belt team will be in the top 25 for a long time, but maybe not forever. In the 70's NTSU was ranked # 16 nationally as an Independent. The Southwest Conference would not allow NT into the Conference and that's why Hayden Fry left. NT was not good long enough to be a major player in any conference re-structuring. At about the same time Dr Hurley came on the scene. His commitment to the Athletic Department was non existent. As a student I sat in a hall meeting and heard the question "why does the admin not support athletics more?" Dr Hurley's answer was because the students didn't support athletics. A good point but I don't think the right direction. Then, the fall of NT athletics began. Not until Dr Pohl came along would things turn around. No matter what you think of DD, RV or anyone else the President and Regents make the biggest difference. The train is on the right track now but it will take many years of continued support to get athletics back to where it was in the 70s. Bottom line- 1. Nt will have to continue on the right track 2. More community support (the team must win - no matter who NT plays - if you lose no one will come) 3. After a few years of winning and improving (better facilities, better recruits etc) some conference will change, regroup, start new etc and NT will be in a place to make more of an impact. I don't like the Sun Belt either but until NT pays it's dues (again) there is no other place to play. EVERYTHING WILL GET MUCH BETTER AND THERE WILL BE ANOTHER # 16 IN THE FUTURE. Be patient and keep beating the drums and life will improve. BTW no personal attacks but the Talons need to be revamped to be a more productive group as they were in the 70s, they could do a lot more to get the community and student body involved. That's all I have to say about that. GMG

Thanks, Forest.

Excellent post!!! It is, as you say, going to take time.

If we all pull together the time frame will be shortened.

GO MEAN GREEN

shaft · January 19, 2007

Both sides have valid points? This debate is pretty one-sided; the pro-WAC people blather about reputation, anyone who knows anything about UNT points out the obvious faults, and then the WACkers continue blathering while never responding to the criticism.

Increased travel cost and decreased payouts are reason alone to end this debate. I also say the reputation argument is false. Mid-majors make their own reputation, not their conference. Marshall got respect playing in an empty MAC. Boise State has succeeded inspite of the WAC. I call B.S. on this rep rubs off argument. Are New Mexico State/Idaho/Utah State viewed as a better programs now than when they were in the Belt? Being in the WAC has nothing to do with those programs reputation.

And here's one more argument the WACers can't answer, why would NT want to give the WAC mroe access to its recruiting base?

Daddy Dumpsalot · January 19, 2007

As an old NTSU/UNT er I thought I would give my 2 cents to the conversation. Every post here has valid points. UNT Athletics must grow and improve, more community support (along with it, $$$), the Sun Belt sucks (right now). SBC will never get any respect and I don't believe a Sun Belt team will be in the top 25 for a long time, but maybe not forever. In the 70's NTSU was ranked # 16 nationally as an Independent. The Southwest Conference would not allow NT into the Conference and that's why Hayden Fry left. NT was not good long enough to be a major player in any conference re-structuring. At about the same time Dr Hurley came on the scene. His commitment to the Athletic Department was non existent. As a student I sat in a hall meeting and heard the question "why does the admin not support athletics more?" Dr Hurley's answer was because the students didn't support athletics. A good point but I don't think the right direction. Then, the fall of NT athletics began. Not until Dr Pohl came along would things turn around. No matter what you think of DD, RV or anyone else the President and Regents make the biggest difference. The train is on the right track now but it will take many years of continued support to get athletics back to where it was in the 70s. Bottom line- 1. Nt will have to continue on the right track 2. More community support (the team must win - no matter who NT plays - if you lose no one will come) 3. After a few years of winning and improving (better facilities, better recruits etc) some conference will change, regroup, start new etc and NT will be in a place to make more of an impact. I don't like the Sun Belt either but until NT pays it's dues (again) there is no other place to play. EVERYTHING WILL GET MUCH BETTER AND THERE WILL BE ANOTHER # 16 IN THE FUTURE. Be patient and keep beating the drums and life will improve. BTW no personal attacks but the Talons need to be revamped to be a more productive group as they were in the 70s, they could do a lot more to get the community and student body involved. That's all I have to say about that. GMG

Nice post...If the Talons could stay sober long enough they might be more productive :geek:

Daddy Dumpsalot · January 19, 2007

Both sides have valid points? This debate is pretty one-sided; the pro-WAC people blather about reputation, anyone who knows anything about UNT points out the obvious faults, and then the WACkers continue blathering while never responding to the criticism.
Increased travel cost and decreased payouts are reason alone to end this debate. I also say the reputation argument is false. Mid-majors make their own reputation, not their conference. Marshall got respect playing in an empty MAC. Boise State has succeeded inspite of the WAC. I call B.S. on this rep rubs off argument. Are New Mexico State/Idaho/Utah State viewed as a better programs now than when they were in the Belt? Being in the WAC has nothing to do with those programs reputation.
And here's one more argument the WACers can't answer, why would NT want to give the WAC mroe access to its recruiting base?

Hey shaft..youre right....Sun-Belt for LIFE!!.....yeah right getoutta here

Oh yeah...please tell me all the benefits of staying in the Sun-Belt, because I cant wait to here this.

Probably you will say that we can save more money and build our new stadium and THEN get into a better conference...right?!

Wrong, then we will have a 10% more chance of building a new stadium with the revenue that we're not getting now, and pack it with air while we're playing your favorite SBC rivals.

You act like we have this awesome recruiting process and we're pulling all this talent....which we both know isn't true, so Ill just ignore your last question.

Bottom line is there is no reason to continue this dispute merely because no other conference has offered us an invitation...BUT if they do and we decline, I'll burn my diploma and poop on the eagle's head in the middle of campus. If we accept, I will send my kids here.

ps. about Marshall. They may have had respect for a while and they should have ran with it, but they didnt and who are they now...besides a movie with matthew mcskjlskjdfljhay. Why dont you do some research about the school you listed above and see what their attendance has done since they jumped (yes jumped) conferences. I would be curious to know.

ColoradoEagle · January 19, 2007

Increased travel cost and decreased payouts are reason alone to end this debate.

Actually, while the travel costs are higher, so are the payouts. This won't change until the SBC remembers that basketball is important.

I also say the reputation argument is false. Mid-majors make their own reputation, not their conference. Marshall got respect playing in an empty MAC. Boise State has succeeded inspite of the WAC. I call B.S. on this rep rubs off argument. Are New Mexico State/Idaho/Utah State viewed as a better programs now than when they were in the Belt? Being in the WAC has nothing to do with those programs reputation.

Good point. Although all of them are at the bottom of the WAC.